I've made my decision-- needed!

[Oregon Blackberry]

He didn't break any moral code or anything. People fall out of love and break up everyday. The dumpee is never going to like the method the breakup is delivered and will never be satisfied with any explanation the dumper offers.

Whan a guy breaks up with a woman, it is usually after a long process, often at least a month or several months to a year, of soul-searching and self-realization of what he wants in a relationship and if his feelings are really love.

A lot of times this involves "faking" through dates and moments with his partner in an effort to try to convince himself (and her) that things in the relationship are great and he is extremely happy. This is often deceiving to the woman who may feel that these "fakeout" times are genuine....in fact she actually may believe that the relationship is stronger than ever, when for the guy it is the opposite.

However, by the time "d-day" (dump day) occurs, he has already emotionally checked out of the relationship and actually has been broken up with you in his head for some time. He has already processed the loss of the relationship, and it was easier for him since he is the one who initiated thoughts of it not working out and the first to realize he wasn't in love.

Any guys want to back me up on my theory?

[Zapbasket]

Oregon Blackberry / Blackberry / IzzyB,

 

If you actually read the thread, you'd see that your reply has nothing to do with what has been discussed over the past 2,3,4 pages, and furthermore, is just yet ANOTHER rehash of your experience reading "He's Just Not That Into You" like ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL your responses to EEEEEEEEEEEEVERYONE'S posts. I don't know why you bother posting anywhere; maybe you should start your own thread and share some of your own painful experiences and maybe learn from how other LS'ers respond to you what actually constitutes a response that is a) sensitive and b) worth bothering to read?

[Oregon Blackberry]

Sorry but your situation really can be summed up with those six words. Well, you're the writer, does He's constitute one word or two?

IT does fit with the topic you have been discussing because you were discussing how men chose to dump. I stated "well, there is no good way to dump someone and the dumpee is always going to feel like it is unjustified and they were emotionally raped."

Even Timke had to tell you straight out that he doesn't want you. It totally has to do with this thread. I'm trying to help you, girl. You need to release yourself of this pain and get off your high horse. I say that because it seems that you feel you are so great that no man would ever want to dump you and not be into you. Well....your ex just is not that into you, and hasn't been for some years it seems. He even wanted you to pay rent to move into him, when he is making big bucks. What is that about? A man who was really in love with you would have begged you to move in and get engaged to you, and he would not have wanted you to pay rent.

There is a teacher at school who has been living with her now fiance for a year. Well, she said she would like to pay rent, and he said "No. I love you and the idea is that I WANT you to be here. I am not looking this as a way to get part of my rent paid." By the way, he proposed a month after they moved in together. This is the behavior of a man who loves a woman. A man who hangs up on his girlfriend and gets angry because she can't afford to pay a share of the rent in his expensive apartment is not a man who is in love with a woman at all. By the way, her fiance is also a teacher, not a rich or well-to-do man by any means. But...he loves his fiance and shows it. Yours didn't show you that he loved you.

You need to start smelling the coffee and stop analyzing and rehashing.

[Zapbasket]

I think the thing is, OB, that I smell the coffee. I think I also smell and see a lot of things that, you not being me and not being in my relationship, do not smell or see. I'm way past the question of whether he was/is into me or not, and really trying to deal with my hurt by coming to a deeper understanding of what this relationship meant to me. Sometimes the scaffolding falters and I go back to "Why, why," and that's just fine.

 

And yeah, actually I do think I'm pretty awesome, though I have my faults...but I think what's much more present in my posts is the extent of self-blame I have heaped upon myself, and the extent to which I've felt simply, utterly crushed by my breakup. It's these little nuances you keep missing in my posts and, I've noticed, on other people's threads that really make your posts come across as insensitive and unhelpful. You go on everyone's threads slapping stickers of "He's not into you" on everyone's hurt; maybe sometimes people just come here as a way to assuage the hurt they're feeling and to connect with others who are hurting or have hurt like they have and understand all the cycles of grief one goes through, and the growth that can occur as a result.

[tinke]

greencove..now you're back to making sense again!

 

i fully understand your statement RE: your ex's ability to shut down emotionally and walk away from difficult situations. also, i too, had always wondered if i did not make the first attempt to contact mine after a conflict, etc...would he ever feel the urge/need to, and what is more.....actuallly follow through with an apology, etc.

as i found with my ex, the answer is most likely not! he had absolutely no intention of ever contacting me after his break-up e-mail! in fact, he reufused ALL contact for over a month, and finally i got a brief farewell...no more, no explanation..nothing!

 

yes, i played that situation in my head for months and months, because it just didn't make sense. i had soooo many unanswered questions. but i AM slowly realizing that yes, some people CAN just dismiss another with no intention of ever communicating with them again....it's just easier. it's done, why talk, i have moved on, "i have nothing to say" (said ex). which of course, leaves the other in devastation! it is that simple! that is why somehow we must find some sort of finality in ourselves, something tangible (that makes sense to us) to help move on.

 

i still have times of great despair and wonder what actually happened. but, i have to remember, no matter what, he decided to leave suddenly with no contact! he caused great pain...of course it would have hurt no matter how it ended, but, he was very uncaring and insensitive in the end. 10 yrs. and i got barely more than a goodbye...see ya! so knowing this, helps, because honestly...he IS capable of doing this again and again, as long as i would allow it. (not that he is trying).

 

you sound as if you had done your best at the time, don't beat yourself. it also seems that you truly are moving towards acceptance...you've come some distance.

yes, he did do just that..........left without any further explanation! someone else, in time, willl appreciate you and relish in your compassion/love. it just is not him!

 

after following your posts, i believe you are weeping now, because you may FINALLY be at the phase of surrendering/admitting the loss. your posts are gearing in that direction, a change from previous. yes, it is extremely painful, but a needed stage.

if you allow your thinking to flow with that idea, in time, your desire will lessen. at the least, you will be able to see his faults too, not just focus on yours.

 

realistically greencove, HE IS capable of shutting down again, hurting you by running. i just cannot fathom going through this kind of pain again. or i should say, knowing he has this history and ability to become so very cold, i would be terrified to allow him another chance to do it. i am not saying i am over him by any means, but....i do feel mistrust.

 

cheapen your future relationships??????????????????

you don't really mean this, do you? i can understand having heightened awareness, radar going............but, this was about HIM!!!!

another man may admire all your attributes, not be threatened.

 

i just really don't want to get all religious, but....i have to feel for this break-up to cause soooooooooooo very much hurt.............there must be a (hidden) reason. this thought has helped me in my darkest times.

 

you sure seem to be headed on a RECOVERY path now. can you feel the emotions shifting? even though you still think/cry about him, your posts are changing.

 

hang in there

i wish you well

[OpenBook]

I'm trying to help you, girl. You need to release yourself of this pain and get off your high horse. I say that because it seems that you feel you are so great that no man would ever want to dump you and not be into you. Well....your ex just is not that into you, and hasn't been for some years it seems... You need to start smelling the coffee and stop analyzing and rehashing.

 

Whoa!! You call that "help"?? Yeah, GreenCove, just snap your fingers and disperse all the thoughts, emotions, doubts, and pain - POOF! vaporized. Oregon, the only thing you've accomplished here with your insensitive words is making it blatantly obvious how APPALLINGLY LITTLE you know about women... and how little you care.

 

maybe sometimes people just come here as a way to assuage the hurt they're feeling and to connect with others who are hurting or have hurt like they have and understand all the cycles of grief one goes through, and the growth that can occur as a result.

 

GreenCove, I can tell you this... When I went through my own "rehashing," it was a way to GET CONTROL over my runaway emotions. I was aware that my thinking wasn't right. But I didn't know what to do to fix it. So I looked for things that I did wrong. Since I couldn't control HIM, at least I could control my own behavior, and resolve not to repeat the same thing in the future.

 

Looking back on it, my own perception of my mistakes was way overblown. The bottom line was, it was a BAD COMBINATION, him and me. It had nothing to do with my loveability as a person. Unfortunately, I had to learn this after waiting a lo-o-o-o-ng time and finally getting into a great relationship with a man who adored me and made me realize "Yes, this is the way it SHOULD be."

 

I only wish I could have realized that on my own, without having to get it "proven" by a great relationship. I hope this happens for you, without having to wait so long.

[tinke]

how are you doing G.C.?

 

i had a set-back yesterday, reeling it over again. i believe what makes it soooooo very difficult to move on, is the way in which it swiftly and coldly ended after so many yrs. there was no looking back for him! i still have difficulty coming to terms with how he chose to dismiss me.

 

still...i've noticed those feelings do not occupy my mind 24 hrs, what lingers is the aftermath of that puzzlement/pain. but, all in all, i feel i am doing better. i do have some better days now.

 

hope you are doing well.

[Zapbasket]

Hi Tinke,

 

First, thank you for your message above. Thanks to both you and you, Openbook, for your encouraging words of wisdom. I'm really trying to take it to heart and am feeling quite a swirl of emotions these past few days. Overall I feel...weird, discombobluated, uncertain, crushed, but indignant at feeling crushed, unbearably lovesick, and incredibly pissed, as well as somewhat liberated from the agony of the whole thing...but only somewhat.

 

Tinke, I'm sorry you had a setback yesterday. I, too, had a low time yesterday when I signed onto a social networking site with countless activity groups in my city, and signed up for a group only to discover that he, too, was a member. It made me so frustrated, hurt, and angry on so many levels to see evidence of him being proactive when he was so reticent in the last 2 or so years of our relationship. It's like he had to toss me out to finally take charge of his life...when all I wanted in the first place was for him to take charge of it. It hurts.

 

You know, Tinke, I think what we're going through is probably one of the most elementally painful things in human experience. Not to inflate our pain--after all, it's true that we're lucky in that we have homes, and income, and food, and friends and there are much, much worse kinds of human suffering--but being rejected by someone in whom you'd placed your trust creates a deep wound and calls everything into question: who can we trust? Did we chose to be with someone who truly, fundamentally, did not love us? What is it about us that somehow made us lose out on being loved and respected? It's inevitable that we struggle.

 

I feel angry to see evidence of him moving on with his life without a care at the hurt he inflicted upon me--hurt that was utterly undeserved...and the disrespect he showed me! And I feel also very weak, as I know I was the stronger person in this relationship and yet here I am, feeling like it's a struggle every day to stay positive, to move forward, to meet people.... I'm not being very articulate because I have so many feelings running through me as a result of what you said to me over the weekend; I feel very unsettled.

 

But: you sound like a very loving, wonderful person, Tinke! And I believe you and me both will prevail. I have more to say to you but I'm at work and can't formulate my thoughts as carefully as when I'm home. So...more to come. I hope you're feeling a little stronger today.

 

:bunny:Take care:bunny:,

GreenCove

[Zapbasket]

Just when I thought I was doing so great (meeting lots of new people, trying new activities, in particular meeting two very interesting guys who indicated interest, as well and want to set up a date), I had a major setback that had me weeping most of the night last night.

 

One of my oldest and most reliable friends, J, met up with me for dinner last night. She's the person who introduced my ex to me in January 2002. Quick backstory: she was in Boston where her college friend, R, was pursuing her Ph.D. at the same uni, program, and in the same year as my ex. J invited me to come stay with her in Boston while I completed some research for a project and J, R, and my ex and I began hanging out together, one thing led to another, and my ex and I began dating exclusively and seriously straightaway.

 

R recently moved back to NYC and has been spending a lot of time with my ex (no romantic interest whatsoever) along with their old grad school cronies. J and R hang out a lot as they are close friends. Last night at dinner, J told me that last Thursday she called R to ask what she was up to and R said, "I'm out having drinks with [GreenCove's ex]; come join us!" And so J did, for 30 minutes, during which she mostly regaled them with a story of something crazy that happened to her recently. J had not seen my ex in about 4 years due to geography, etc.

 

So here's the situation: J told me this, and I was hurt. I tried to contain it, but then I couldn't and I'm used to being able to be honest with her so I told her I felt kind-of betrayed. I said I knew it wasn't rational but it's how I felt. We talked about it a little and then we spent several more hours together, and I thought I was pretty much fine. As it was late, she suggested I sleep on her couch, and it wasn't until we said goodnight and I was under the blanket that it hit me.

 

I started sobbing. I felt so, so, betrayed. My emotions were swirling all over the place. I felt so alone, and like my ex walked away with everything and I was left with nothing--not even the staunch loyalty of MY oldest friend. None of his friends contacted me after the breakup, nor did anyone in his family (there were a few lingering contacts with his mom and sister, mutually initiated, but that was it--and his mom had said she hoped we could always be friends "no matter what happens" but it's not like I ever heard from her after that). I even wrote to one of his friends right after the breakup, and he never replied. So that's part of what hurts me about J knowingly meeting up with my ex for drinks...but it's more complicated than that.

 

Anyway, finally after sobbing silently for an hour on her couch, I couldn't take it anymore and I got dressed and left her apartment. I was just crying uncontrollably and I called her cell and left a message saying I knew it wasn't rational but I just feel terribly betrayed and I just can't handle it and I'm sorry. She sent me an e-mail this morning saying we'd talk when she got back into town (she had to leave town for the day), and I don't know what to say.

 

I notice that whenever I hang out with R or J, it sets me back. I feel compelled to ask them how he's doing, and then I end up feeling sad about how I'm so cut off, and I feel humiliated and undignified and alone and I don't have a good time. R is more of a friend of mine through J, but J is one of my better friends. So how do I handle this? I really feel like I can't see her if she's going to be hanging out with my ex. I just find it offensive; they were never that close friends anyway and I can't help feeling hurt that she has SEEN how much this breakup has hurt me, and she's the first to tell me that in her view my ex is not and was never and will never be that great of a guy, and yet it was nothing for her to validate him by stopping in and giving him a hug and having a beer with him and R. He definitely sees her as MY friend, and I'm sure it makes him feel at peace that clearly there are no hard feelings if my closest friend would casually hang out with him and share laughs. Meanwhile, none of his friends are hanging out with me. And I'm sitting here struggling to meet new people to fill my evenings with good times and my friend goes and hangs out with my ex. I feel like, wow what a great life he has--he's lost nothing! No one has called him out on anything he may have done wrong and I have spent many months positively aching.

 

Sorry for the wordy post. If anyone's still reading, can anyone commiserate? Any advice? I don't want to distance myself from J but I feel inexplicably very hurt; I don't want to try to tell her who she should and should not hang out with as that's not fair but I honestly don't like that she would hang out with him after seeing how beaten down i've been by this breakup; and I feel that everytime I see her I take 5 steps back in my progress from moving on. I'd just hate to lose a friend over my stupid ex; no lost love is worth that. And yet...right now I'm really doubting how good a friend she really is. I feel like in her shoes I'd have been too uncomfortable to meet up for a drink with her ex. In her words,though, she admitted last night that she has had a hard time sympathizing with me because she just doesn't see what is so special about my ex that would have me so hurt about losing him. And I felt like saying to her, "And yet he's apparently special enough for you to give HIM a social evening out and the validation of your presence while I struggle to build up a social life."

 

I'm angry, and I feel bad that I feel so angry at her--enough to cool off the friendship for a while until my emotions are stabilized from this whole breakup and I'm fully moved on. I hate to have to have yet another loss to deal with.... And what has he lost? Nothing. That hurts.

[tinke]

hey greencove, how's things, hope you are doing well.

 

i believe i have finally hit a pivotal point in my healing! i had mailed out another note with some final thoughts, since he did not allow any form of discussion at the end.

 

i knew as i was writing that note, that i had absolutely nothing more to add, no more to say! i believe i have finally seen things and him for what it actually is, and i can say i have fully accepted the situation. i really don't know how i came to this point, as you know, i hit a couple low days here recently.........but, i feel nothing more than disgust for him and what he did. oh...how i've longed for this peace!

 

i can honestly say, if he came knocking on my door, it would produce a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach! i no longer feel the emptiness. i do not think of him as i used to.

i believe i have reached that state of indifference! how very sweet it is!

 

hang in there, you will have this calm (soon i hope).

after months and months of grief, trying to make sense of it all...it just happened, as i've heard it described before on LS. those emotions just simply stopped! all i can think of now is how cowardly he acted, how shameful!

 

just wanted to check in..thinking of you. hope you are doing well. have you been dating? quite honestly, G.C., i can relate to things you have said, and i didn't believe i would reach this phase...but, it does happen...it will happen! believe!

 

take good care

hugs

[Zapbasket]

Hi there Tinke,

 

I think we posted at just about the same time! How funny. I'm glad you are feeling the peace of true closure--the kind you get from within yourself. And that's so great that you wrote him your final thoughts--something for him to chew on one day when is open to a glimmer of insight. I'd be curious to know what you said to him.

 

I'm not there yet; I don't think the true closure will come for a long time. I forsee myself moving forward as I've been doing and gradually, as I've begun to be doing, moving ON, but more moving on from a barbed-wire tangle of question marks that won't unkink into safe, even lines for possibly years. The biggest, knottiest question being, of course, whether this relationship really needed to end because it had no future. I think for me, there are things about this relationship and its demise that have opened up deep-seated insecurities and hurts and whatever good will come out of this will be that it finally forced me to resolve those insecurities...or at least, to come closer to resolving them.

 

Anyway, congratulations on getting things enough into perspective to lighten up the pain. I hope you'll continue to be a presence here though perhaps that's for selfish reasons . For you, I hope you continue to take steps to build a richness and stability to your life that from the sound of it the dynamics of your recent relationship held you back from building to the full extent you are capable.

 

What are your thoughts on whether he'll reply to your letter or not? What made you decide to write him?

 

As always, thanks for your well-wishes, Tinke.

[tinke]

greencove, i was pleased to see your quick response! thanks for the kind words!

 

first, i can tell you, this site has been a blessing. and.....the lengthy time we had "talked", started the real healing. but, it was not until very recent, that i had found that peace, i had searched for.

 

what i wrote....well, i had written many notes, previous..none to which he responded. but, they were for me! as you, i am a communicator. the last, was more of things i believed were misunderstandings, etc., and appreciation for what we had. but again, i could feel as i wrote that last one, i was done! i honestly, would not want him to respond anymore. i have reached a healthier frame of mind now, that i do not want disturbed. i understand the meaning of.."it is too late."

 

i think i have felt every possible emotion through this, and perhaps that is what has finally gotten me to this point. the hurt was so powerful, and after reeling it over and over, i know (from past experiences) i am done! never, would i think of allowing him back in again, way too risky. plus, above all, the love is not what it was....it is greatly diminished, if there at all. i do feel indifference!

 

and believe me, how very welcoming it is, not to think of him constantly, etc.

 

you will reach this, have faith.

think of how very far you've come in the past months.

 

the funny thing is, it happened just as some have described...it just happened! there was a point where i knew i was finished, depleted, and from there, i felt much lighter.

 

yes, these situations tend to bring up many thoughts, etc. but, there will be a time when you will not want to exert your energy on trying to figure them out...they just won't matter anymore.

 

glad to hear you continue to make progress.

 

to answer your question about him responding.......NO...i do not expect a response, and (unlike before) i am ok with that! i am ready to move on! (snail speed ahead)

 

take care.........keep going strong!

[Zapbasket]

That was very brave of you to write to him. I think after my phone call a month ago, that's it for me. I'll not contact him again. If he were to contact me...that is another matter. But I gathered up courage and put myself out there once, and I'm not going to do it again. (Not with him, anyway.)

 

I'd be curious to know your thoughts about my situation with my friend that I posted about at almost exactly the same time you posted your note (on the previous page). I feel like I'm doing a good job overall of moving forward but any connection to him gets me emotionally undone all over again. I feel terrible that despite how long my friend and I have known each other, I'm considering distancing myself from her until I feel like I have a whole new life situated.

 

:bunny:I don't know why but I'm always inspired to leave off comments to you, Tinke, with this bunny. Sort-of a way of 'tipping my hat' to you or bestowing some sort of smooshy stuffed animal feeling!

[tinke]

thanks for the bunny!

 

sorry G.C., i didn't notice your previous post RE: your friend.

 

well.........

first be careful, because i am guessing you are probably a bit vulnerable yet, and things tend to be magnified when feeling so. (i know).

you say they were friends hanging out previous to your attachment with him, so maybe she doesn't see how her contact with him is disturbing to you. she is not on the same level of mistrust, hurt, etc. as you. for her, it's just life and a few drinks (i would guess).

 

another thought...is it YOU who initiates a discussion about him? do you deter any comments about him? if the latter is no, then it would be difficult to place this solely on her. you can simply state you are moving on and do not wish to hear any comments about him.

 

i guess from an outsider's view, if you had not made it clear to her that you choose not to know anything about him, then you can only ask yourself why not? if seeing her is troubling to you because of her comments about him, ask her to stop!

 

i can understand your feelings of betrayal, but...where they friends before? are you just reacting to YOUR pain? do you believe she would have went to see him if she knew you would have been hurt by it? do you think she just innocently went once to catch up on old times?

 

i don't know greencove, just asking some questions. it would be a great loss to detach from a close friendship due to this, even though you may feel hurt by her actions.

remember, she is not feeling "all the STUFF" that you are. why would you distance yourself from her, unless you specifically told her...you don't want to hear about him.

referring to you saying, seeing her puts you back.

 

why would you lose a friendship over him? i don't believe he thought out all these dynamics when they met up for a drink, and....it was R he was with, she invited J.

 

understandably, you are sensitive at this time. but, if you do not share your feelings with her, how is she to know why you are so upset.

[Virgo1982]

 

lol, I think you're much more hard-minded than I am. By that I mean, you strip things to their absolutely pragmatic core and are able to follow suit emotionally. I think as I mature I might strengthen that capacity in myself. Almost everything you say to me I agree with. But I can't help this optimism and idealism that makes me think with people the door is never fully closed. Here's an example:

 

It's things like that that give me hope. I do really hate to see people I care about go, and maybe I'm a fool but I believe that my ex cares about me. I guess...I don't know when I should be complacent and accept things as they are, and when I should step up and take risks to get what I want where people are concerned. Usually when I take risks, I am rewarded. Maybe I've been spoiled . I guess that's why I have a hard time believing that he could really, truly, not want to see me again. On some level the idea is almost laughable to me; maybe that's bad.

 

I wish I could have the pat attitude you do, which is why I appreciate your input. I guess I also feel like, life itself has a pat attitude--we're rolled along whether we like it or not, in directions we cannot forsee, and really, we could just never have an attachment to anything or anyone, an no expectations, since most of our attachments and expectations will be thwarted anyway. One thing I admire about my ex is that he seemingly expects nothing from no one, which is why, I think, he can always be so affable--especially when in return nothing is expected of him. I wish I could be like that sometimes--I wonder whether not having expectations is the only way tuo be a truly accepting person? But then...he's not been very accepting of me all along.

 

I hope you'll give me your thoughts on all this....

 

It seems like you were mocking this poster and it's strange to me. You want this man in your life who would probably agree with them. The problem here seems to be that you and this guy aren't compatible. There is a guy out there who would appreciate a woman like you, but he can't be one of them. Why? Because he has made it clear that he isn't. I am told that I am too cold-hearted and logical all the time. I am very sensative, but I don't feel the need to express every emotion that I feel. Furthermore, it is likely that every emotion I feel is not valid. So, I would seem like a nut walking around wearing my heart on my sleeve.

 

Being emotionally mature means taking responsibility for your emotions. IOW, I allowed myself to be upset because he did not contact me. Taking it a step further, I hoped he would contact me after he said he didn't want to be with me. Then, I contacted him after I made hang-up calls and sent a note for him to call me which he never did.

 

If you frown upon logic, you will lose in the game of love. Just as time is money, the time you waste on one person means less time for those deserving of your time. Maybe you have been spoiled, but you're an adult and have to behave as such. You must be willing to look at the big picture. You can not take pride in what has occured thus far. What you should take pride in is looking back and knowing you had the strength to move on. You are now digging yourself into a hole of hopelessness.

 

I was dating a guy at one point who had been divorced and was broken. I was not looking at the big picture and could not see that I was wasting my time. I would ask him questions about our relationship progessing and would get the brick wall. Excuses were made for him, but one day I got fed up and told him I had plans for my life and I'd be moving on. Of course he tried to turn it around on me, but I wasn't having it. I knew what I wanted and I could not get it from him. I moved on. He called me a few weeks ago and I talked with him in the way old friends do. I was very friendly and warm, but no talks about dating once again or anything like that. He informs me that he will be in town (he's in the military) and hopes to spend time with his son. I wished him well and we hung up. That Saturday night he calls and I called him back but he didn't pick up. Unfortunately-for him-he called back when I was in the movie theater. (my phone was cut off and he didn't leave a message) Sunday he calls telling me that he called last night but my phone was off. I informed him that I was in the theater. He sarcastically said, "good for you." I replied, "It was. I enjoyed myself." He spent the rest of the "conversation" in silence and I asked him what was wrong. He said that he didn't feel like talking. I told him that he was talking crazy. "YOU called ME but YOU don't feel like talking?" Finally, he said that he was "going out." I told him to have a nice time and we hung up. I went to the movies with one of my females co-workers. Had he asked that and not behaved like a 2 year old child, he would have known. It wasn't my responsibility to offer this information. He gave up the opportunity to receive that kind of response from me. And after that display he further proved himself unworthy of my time and attention.

 

Hopefully you see my point. Not only could this be you in the future, it also gives you a glimpse of what your ex might have felt when he talked to you. I do care about him enough that I want the best for him, but how will he ever change if I am there to make excuse after excuse and give my affection to him without any real committment? That is where logic comes in. I care for him and myself enough to hope his hear is healed and perhaps he'll be like your co-worker and have an epiphany. At that point, maybe he'll find someone nice for himself. Maybe he'll find me. Maybe he'll never change. But I definitely won't put my life on hold to find out...

[tinke]

virgo, i believe the difference in healing comes from the way it ended.

you, (maturely) stated to your ex your needs, your life goals and that he was not contributing to any future plans. you had at least offered an explanation, some form of closure.

 

i believe when left suddenly without any form of communication and no response from any contacts with a LTR, a huge chunk of the healing is first preoccupied with...what happened? it is only after that cycle is completed, the acceptance and true healing take place. so, i belive the thought pattern is somewhat diffferent, and perhaps, maybe a bit illogical. one is dealing with thoughts of disbelief without having the satisfaction of any type of explanation.

 

your post was interesting (inspirational)...glad to hear you are doing so well.

[Virgo1982]

virgo, i believe the difference in healing comes from the way it ended.

you, (maturely) stated to your ex your needs, your life goals and that he was not contributing to any future plans. you had at least offered an explanation, some form of closure.

 

i believe when left suddenly without any form of communication and no response from any contacts with a LTR, a huge chunk of the healing is first preoccupied with...what happened? it is only after that cycle is completed, the acceptance and true healing take place. so, i belive the thought pattern is somewhat diffferent, and perhaps, maybe a bit illogical. one is dealing with thoughts of disbelief without having the satisfaction of any type of explanation.

 

your post was interesting (inspirational)...glad to hear you are doing so well.

 

But he didn't and he never would. That's my only point. I could have been hanging on for dear life with hope, but I left instead and let him know why so there would be no error on my part.

[tinke]

you DID explain why you are leaving. my point is that it is a different healing process when left suddenly without any explanation nor replies from contacts. from my experience, it is very similar to a sudden, unexpected death.....much left to say, many questions, but no possible way to get a reply. it is just done! so the healing begins at a different stage, i believe. there is much to work through before the actual reality hits that IT IS OVER.

 

not to say that one pain is more severe than the other, just different. it would appear to me that it would be slightly easier for me to move ahead if HE would have expressed some discontent previous...something, instead of cowardly vanishing.

i believe this is greencove's situation, also.

[Virgo1982]

you DID explain why you are leaving. my point is that it is a different healing process when left suddenly without any explanation nor replies from contacts. from my experience, it is very similar to a sudden, unexpected death.....much left to say, many questions, but no possible way to get a reply. it is just done! so the healing begins at a different stage, i believe. there is much to work through before the actual reality hits that IT IS OVER.

 

not to say that one pain is more severe than the other, just different. it would appear to me that it would be slightly easier for me to move ahead if HE would have expressed some discontent previous...something, instead of cowardly vanishing.

i believe this is greencove's situation, also.

 

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. His lack of communication speaks volumes. I made the point of saying that I told him the reason why I was leaving so when he reflects on the situation, regardless of what I FELT(emotion) like saying to him, he would KNOW(logic) he was WRONG(reality-lol). That is why he called years later. I want to see growth in my fellow man. Maybe he'll get the message after this last exchange. Maybe he won't. He's on the right path, but still missing the big picture. And still not ready for me...

 

When you tell someone why you're leaving and they still don't show any desire to respect your feelings, they aren't worth the pain really. Someone leaving without offering an explanation is the same thing to me.

 

Her hope is destroying her ability to heal. At least she has someone supportive to lean on. Take care

[tinke]

being on both sides of the situation...with all due respect to YOUR feelings...

it is different to be suddenly abandoned without a word. when you put yourself out there and shared your thoughts with your ex, it was a clear statement that you are not fulfilled in the relationship as things were. yes, he chose not to make any changes to better the rapprt or to respect your feelings. but, it was not a sudden departure.

 

when one suddenly leaves without any word, no response, nothing after a LTR, the other is in a whirlwind of unanswered questions, feelings of betrayal, abandonment, etc.

so, initially, those feelings must be dealt with to open the door to logic.

it appears that one may be stuck in that denial phase a bit longer due to the way the relationship was quickly severed. there was no winding down phase, (at least for the one left), it just happened.

 

i don't wish to sound as i am disrespecting your feelings, they are yours. but, being in a very similar situation as greencove, i do understand her "stuck phase".

hopefully peace will come soon.

 

i wish you well.

[tinke]

greencove, how are you doing?

 

so far, things continue to go pleasantly better for me. it was a long haul, and i feel i am on the way. i do not think of him as often, and truly do not long for him. i think finally, i am not in love anymore!!!! when i do think of him, it is with sadness for the way he cowardly ran, anyone would have deserved more than this!

 

i recall reading several times that just trust, one day you will be better, you will overcome this! it is very true. i finally came to the point that i knew if i called, what would i possibly say after all this time? it was then when i knew, enough!

the rest "just happpened". hopefully this feeling will continue, i surely welcome the peace!

 

i know your posts have been changing, i hope you can feel your growth.

just trust, G.C.....one day, it will be better, much better!

i guess we have to do whatever each of us needs to do to reach a higher level, we must go through it, to get to the other side of it. it's a journey of growth!

take good care of yourself!

thinking of you!~

[Zapbasket]

Wow, so much to reply to! Thanks

 

First, Virgo, I understand what you're saying. I wish, in retrospect, that I had been more honest with myself and my ex at how much and how deeply this one incident hurt me back in the spring of 2004--when I was seriously contemplating moving to his homecity and needed encouragement from him and he chose that time to tell me about an interaction with his mother regarding me that made me feel vaguely, uncomfortably, unaccepted. What he said tapped into my deepest insecurities and I had difficulty surmounting the fact that he sent me such mixed messages--i.e., "I want you to move here" and "I and my family don't quite understand or fully accept you." I also wish I'd stood up for myself when he avoided discussing issues with me and telling me how he felt about things. I wish I'd said, "I don't like this and I need it to change; here's exactly what I need to see otherwise I have to consider whether this relationship is for me." Instead I begged and berated and drove him further and further away, until he finally left. It was very undignified on my part and I think I've learned from this that you can't make anyone commit to you or change their behavior toward you; you can only state clearly how you feel--GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO ABSORB YOUR MEANING AND CHOOSE TO MAKE EFFORTS TO CHANGE ON THEIR OWN--and then go from there.

 

It sounds like that's what you did in your relationship and that was wise...and very fair to your partner. It sounds like you gave him opportunity to change while being clear what exactly that change needed to look like. Please understand that I was not mocking Norajane, the poster to whose comments you referred; I simply was presenting another angle. I'm very grateful to NJ for all her support during the months I've been posting here; she always gives intelligent advice.

 

Tinke, I'm with you. Both I and Tinke were just cut off without warning and without explanation, or an opportunity to chose--or not--to make whatever necessary adjustments to assuage our partners' discontents. Mine sent me a very ugly, cold e-mail to end things once and for all--"I'm sorry to hear you're struggling with my decision to end our relationship" (condescending!); "I am no longer your best friend" (cold!); "Given I've told you it's over I have no obligation to discuss things with you" (unfeeling! And untrue!)...just the whole thing was ugly and knowing that he's fine with things ending that way (this being demonstrated by the fact that he's not once made efforts to contact me since that e-mail, on February 13) just makes it all the more devastating.

 

Now, I don't think I'm stuck. I'm not still banking on the hope that he'll contact me in the future. There are times when it seems just impossible to believe that he may be fine with never seeing me or speaking to me again, given all the tenderness I saw from him...but then I also was intimately acquainted with his tendency to avoid what is emotionally challenging and so even if he were to miss me, I think he'll see it as easier to just keep trying to forget about it.

 

I don't think I'm stuck; I've done a great job of moving forward so far, and the task before me is pretty huge: basically I have to configure a whole new life. I discovered the other day that one of my oldest friends is probably not as true a friend as I'd assumed (see my post on the previous page--and Tinke, she KNOWS how much their hanging out would hurt me so I can't really excuse her choice; I think she just pretty much does whatever suits her in the moment and I guess I just mistakenly thought that that tendency would always be secondary to her loyalty to me; I assumed this because I would give her that loyalty). And I've realized that really, given the kinds of things I was involved in over the past 10 years, I haven't yet had an opportunity to meet and network with lots and lots of people and so I have to start my social life pretty much from scratch and get out there and meet people and network to foster lasting connections.

 

My prediction is that in a year from now, I'm scarcely going to be able to recognize my old life because I'll be so far removed from it. This is exciting because it suggests the possibility of a lot of personal growth...but it's also scary and sad because I'm emerging into this new life out of failed love and loss.

 

I still feel waves of anger, and deep grief, and longing for him. What can I say, I loved him and still do--and I felt that in the best way he knew how, he loved me, too--but not enough (and I understand you better now, Tinke--the "not enough" doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't inspired to love me enough because I wasn't good enough...but rather that it was just all he was capable of). I love him and one of the reasons I'm so disgusted by this friend I talk about in a post on the previous page is that neither she nor her friend R have any respect for my ex and it pains me that he's hanging out with people who value him so little, when I, who loved him, am completely excluded. But I have to remind myself--and I do--of all the ways he behaved very uncharitably toward me in our relationship as well as in the way he exited it.

 

I also feel my deep insecurities have all burbled up to the surface as a result of this experience and they're forcing me to deal with them. I.e, am I somehow less lovable because he has this big family and I have none, because he has friends left over from his childhood who come visit in NYC and I seemingly have no good friends from childhood; am I "too much"; am I less of a person than he is because I make so much less money (even as I type this one I feel it's completely ridiculous but it pains me to think of him having as much money as he does; he'll be able to buy a house in a few years and I can barely afford to stay in my apartment and I fear that in 3-4 years he'll be all settled in his nice comfy life and I'll still be struggling and thus will prove to him that he was right to leave me--yes, this is a real insecurity!)? And partly it's these insecurities that have made the breakup hurt as much as it has.

 

Tinke, I hope we can continue to keep in touch over these next months with all our developments! And I'm glad you're healing. I'm healing...slowly...but the progress is palpable.

 

Thanks to you both, Virgo and Tinke.

[tinke]

G.C., glad to see you are moving along..painful as it may be.

 

as for your friend, if you know she was aware of her meeting him would disturb you, then yes, i would agree with you, she is not a loyal member in your life. i can understand your desire to terminate the frienship if you believe she knowingly would hurt you. you are excluded (as you said) because your relationship was different than theirs.

do you honestly believe you could get together with him as a friend in a group? he probably does not think of you as such, and very likely, would cause him discomfort.

he most likely feels he must refrain from seeing you to protect himself. or, maybe, he just doesn't want to give the wrong impression of interest. who knows..but, you are correct, you may have to start out all new! and yes, it can be very exciting...

many of us here are starting anew...i have mixed emotions about it all, also.

 

greencove, i believe you know better than to equate love, happiness etc., with money/income, or material items. you are worthy!

 

we may both be struggling in the next few yrs., and perhaps after...but, that is where we are right now. do you really believe he left you for financial reasons? with all your accomplishments and your passionate personality...you have to know this sounds illogical! for a glimpse, i thought of how different my life could have been financially (secured). but.....it is not! and we do not know what the future holds. (might actually be fun!)

i just believe there is a reason this all happened!

 

there will be a day, G.C., when those feelings for him will begin to fade, less intense.

and you will take notice of what a spectacular person YOU are! and maybe, just maybe, you will begin to see things a little differently.

what helps me is to know in my heart, although, i may have made my mistakes...i did my best at the time.

 

i fully understand what you are saying RE: if he ever discovered he made a mistake, it would be much easier to keep moving on. it's uncanny how similar our exes are.

definately, mine would not reach out. and quite honestly, i have no intention of ever contacting him again. he is the one who left, and quite coldly. i have said all there is to say.

 

you can most positively count on me to keep in touch, i am so very appreciative of your support and feedback.

 

i'm glad for you that you are moving forward (at any speed). you've actually expressed that you are healing!!!! take good care....keep thinking of you.

hugs!

[Zapbasket]

Thanks, Tinke. It *is* difficult to be in such limbo. It's affecting my sleep, and my apartment currently reflects my mindstate--like I haven't decided yet whether I'm here to stay or whether I truly have one foot out the door.

 

What makes me saddest is this feeling of no connection to anyone. Especially given the behavior of my friend. We haven't talked after we hung out last week, and I'm hurt that she hasn't reached out to clear the air. I'd do it...but it seems I'm always the one to do it, in all my relationships. It got me into trouble in my relationship with my ex (his words in that final e-mail to me still ring in my ears, "One of the reasons I don't want to discuss things with you is that there will never be enough discussion"), and I'm going to let it be a lesson learned. If you feel you're putting in all the effort, STOP. Pull back and evaluate. Wait to see if the other person makes a move. THEN say something, or just choose to let it go.

 

With my friend, I really feel I have nothing to say. Because if I really have to explain why I'm so hurt by her decision to hang out with him, then already it's proof that she's just not going to understand--only her own self-reflection will lead her to understanding, or it won't.

 

One thing I think I'm learning, from this breakup and in general, as I deal with the loneliness I'm feeling, is that I've always expected closeness and loyalty from all my relationships. I try always to GIVE closeness and loyalty, because it's my style. If I feel I can't give that, I don't involve myself emotionally with the other person, and if I feel I can't involve myself emotionally with a person, I don't make a big effort to hang out with them. I don't like doing anything superficially. But I guess I need to realize that other people aren't all like that. Maybe my friend, even though she's been my friend for 18 years, prefers a more superficial interaction than I do? Maybe for my ex, love was just spending time together, without conflicts or discussions or emotional sharing? Sometimes I feel like if I followed his lead, the relationship would have fallen flat years ago.

 

Just once I'd love it if someone--friend, partner, family member, coworker, anyone--pursued ME rather than it always being the other way around. The funny thing is, it used to always be the other way around. Before I entered therapy in my early 20s, a friend said to me that the vibe I always gave off was, "I'll be friends with you, but you have to stay outside a 50-foot radius." Growing up my mom always called me the pied piper because everywhere I'd go I'd have strings of people calling me, wanting to hang out, wanting to be my friend, and I was so closed off I'd rarely, if ever, call back. Then I learned to open up, to be vulnerable around others, and now I feel like I'm always the one making the effort.

 

I dunno. I'm sorry I always write such long posts but it helps to put my thoughts out there as I grow through this breakup; hopefully it benefits somebody out there!

 

Tinke, you know, more and more, I find feelings of forgiveness wedging itself in among the anger, hurt, confusion, longing, and indignance. I'm sure on his side he feels justified in acting as he did, and feels I failed him just as I feel he failed me. The only difference is (and this is why the anger and indignance, though less, still remain), I didn't give up on the relationship; he did. He chose to walk away and end things forever.

 

I still miss him a lot. It would mean a great deal to me to hear from him. But I don't want to hang out as friends, either--I have too many unanswered questions. I find myself evaluating whether he really truly loved me...and so how could I hang out with him with the question unanswered of whether he really ever respected me?

 

Anyway, I'm just sharing thoughts as they occur to me. I hope where you live, Tinke, affords you many opportunities to build up a new life. I haven't decided yet whether NYC really enables that, or if it just provides lots of distractions and, of course, career advancement. Building meaningful relationships...I'm not sure yet.

[tinke]

hello greencove

 

i fully understand and share your views on frienship, partnership. i too, take the meaning of friend to be above the superficial. i have heard people refer to me as their friend, one even the best friend, and i thought..what? i do not consider you a friend, but an aquaintance. a friend to me, is a constant loyal being even in the darkest times, one who accepts me with all my flaws, one who would never disrespect me . once that disrespect has been shown, i then know, we have diffferent definitions/expectations.

i do not give myself freely, mainly because i must be willing to give and count on that same loyalty....a rarity!

 

as you described about your ex, yes, i can see mine thinking that way, also. no conflcts, etc. my life was much different than his at the time, i couldn't even think in those terms. i guess i needed MORE of him in different ways, as i am sure he needed me.

i do miss him and still think of what took place at the end...still no solid answers.

but, i have accepted that this is where it is now!

 

i think in time, i will get over him, for the most part...but the sting of how he left, is haunting!

 

i am very uncertain of what my future holds, but, i can find myself begining to look forward to it...slowly. i am, begining to reconstruct some plans, etc.

 

the one thing that comes to mind often, is that i do believe for someone to have left the way he did.....things could have been (what i would call perfect) in the future, and i believe he would still find some reason to run. because as well as we both know...life is not without mishaps, conflicts. and, i would explode if i had to remain silent about things for fear of upsetting him, etc.

 

i awoke thinking of him, but not a longing feeling, but one of sadness for the hurt that was caused...the disrespect, etc.

 

yes, HE chose to walk away..we will not have to wrestle with feelings of that decision.

 

it appears your posts are sounding more in the present, and acceptance is creeping in.

i feel i have come some distance in the past months, you too!

hope you continue to do well......

take care