I've made my decision-- needed!

[Zapbasket]

I do NOT like the idea of contact being made by your friend.

 

I would be suspect. It would seem a little cowardly to me and probably won't get any or much of any results.

 

Yeah, me neither. Honestly, and unbeknownst to my friend, I'm not sure he ever liked her. I'm not sure WHO he ever liked, and that goes for his most longstanding friends. Point being, he'd probably sniff out her motives in a second. I know I would.

 

Send the note. Go ahead. Do I need to drive up there and put it in the mailbox for you??? Go on, it will be okay.

 

lol, yeah, you probably do. Actually it would be nice; I feel so vulnerable I'd actually be grateful for a little hand-holding:o. Thanks.

 

You have found this place. Whatever happens or does not happen as a result of an action that you have more then well thought out...well, we will be here.

 

Thanks Unders, Tinke, and NJ. I'm going to put it in the mailbox on my way to the subway tomorrow morning. That way I'll have a busy day's work to keep my mind distracted from "omygodwhathaveidone." I'll let you know what happens...or doesn't. I've already decided that if I receive an e-mail from him, I will not open it. I will have a friend open it so that I have a buffer between his words and me. I do think the greatest devastation, however, will be the silence.

 

Anyway, thanks for your support guys; it means a lot.

 

PS--Tinke, how are you doing? Haven't seen you 'around' as much lately; hope that's a good sign?

[Zapbasket]

Okay, so I sent the danged note. I chickened out this morning and then at lunch thought oh screw this and hightailed it home on the subway, grabbed the note, and stuffed it in the mail without further ado.

 

So, it's done. Can't be taken back.

 

On the one hand I can't help feeling like a gumdrop on a surfboard--a little ridiculous in my surge of hope and simultaneously well aware of the emotional peril I'm in. Like I said, if he responds and is willing to meet, I'm open to a number of outcomes but I hope...well, first of all I hope he's single still (I wager he is)...and second of all I hope he's willing to catch the wave with me and just see where it takes us.

 

The only way to advance in human relations is to take chances.

 

I'm scared. He may get it tomorrow, definitely by Wednesday, and most definitely by Thursday. This morning at 7:30 a.m. of all times I got a call from a "restricted" number and I had this little thought that it might be him. I can't think of who else would call at that hour and take care that their number is restricted--and not leave a message. Maybe it's my imagination getting ahead of me?

 

I'm going to need the support of all you guys on this site. I'm scared sh*tless. [insert skull and crossbones here]

[underpants]

Greencove,

 

I like you. I have adopted you as my little sister.

 

I am glad you took an action. I will even say you can extend your stress date to Sept 10. Go circle this date.

 

Now, of course you are going to want to check your email every 5 minutes and wonder if every hang up between now and then is him.

 

You have to refrain from that. If it helps think of gumdrops and how sweet you are. Let any email wait for a day or two, let the phone ring a time or two. If you miss his call, he should leave a message. If he doesn't that is his problem. Calm is where you want to be.

 

You took an action and you put yourself out there. Good for you. You let some control go. It is up to him to step up now if he chooses to do so.

 

Relax, breathe....the ball is in his court. There is simply nothing else you can do now except to ...relax.

 

You are going to make someone a really great partner one day. This I am sure of.

 

Chin up.

[Zapbasket]

Greencove,

 

I like you. I have adopted you as my little sister.

 

Likewise. Consider the adoption papers countersigned .

 

I am glad you took an action. I will even say you can extend your stress date to Sept 10. Go circle this date.

 

I'm glad too. I think it was the right thing to do. Of course, if the outcome is ugly, I'll be singing a different tune...but I think this represents my levelheaded sentiment.

 

Now, of course you are going to want to check your email every 5 minutes and wonder if every hang up between now and then is him.

 

Well, now I can't think that any restricted call and hangup is him. I got hit on on my walk home today and like an as* I gave out my phone number as part of my pretence that I actually was interested on meeting this guy for a drink (not). So now my number is floating around in the testosteronal abyss and I can't think of the enigmatic call as some sacred message from my beloved.

 

As for the e-mail. I can't bear to read his words. I'll never forget logging onto my yahoo account, which used to be this fun place where adorable e-mails from my partner abounded, and finding that awful e-mail smack in the midst of my work day. It was like something catapulted out of my computer screen and bashed in my heart. Not going through that again. I'm staunchly not checking my e-mail until I have a friend with me over the phone...and I may make him or her sign in for me.

 

You have to refrain from that. If it helps think of gumdrops and how sweet you are. Let any email wait for a day or two, let the phone ring a time or two. If you miss his call, he should leave a message. If he doesn't that is his problem. Calm is where you want to be.

 

Sage advice. Thanks.

 

You took an action and you put yourself out there. Good for you. You let some control go. It is up to him to step up now if he chooses to do so.

 

See above response. Thanks X 2.

 

Relax, breathe....the ball is in his court. There is simply nothing else you can do now except to ...relax.

 

You are going to make someone a really great partner one day. This I am sure of.

 

Aw, really? I sure hope so. As I grow older I realize it's what is most important to me--to be a good, loved, and loving person...and hopefully to have someone, my estranged partner or someone else, to share it with. Thanks for the wonderful boost--I can really use it these days.

 

Chin up.

 

Thanks .

[4whatItsWorth]

Best of luck. Sadly, I think he will only remind you why he should stay an ex...

 

I say don't put your number on it. Girl, name alone, he could find you IF HE WANTED TO. With your number, it just shows him "she's still wanting me". Without the number, it's way much "I'm over you. I am fine. I hope you are too." (even if it ain't the truth.)

 

Without the number on it, it was perfa.

[underpants]

Best of luck. Sadly, I think he will only remind you why he should stay an ex...

 

I say don't put your number on it. Girl, name alone, he could find you IF HE WANTED TO. With your number, it just shows him "she's still wanting me". Without the number, it's way much "I'm over you. I am fine. I hope you are too." (even if it ain't the truth.)

 

Without the number on it, it was perfa.

 

I am not sure what you mean???

 

Yes there is a risk and I would not advise sending a note if there was any real deal breaker (IMO) thing that happened. However, mine (and I hope Greencove's jury is still deliberating).

 

No, she included a number and she should of. Her intent was clear and strong, not manipulative. This is not game playing.

 

What is perfa??? That is not a word as far as I can tell?

[4whatItsWorth]

Her intent was clear and strong, not manipulative. This is not game playing.

 

What is perfa??? That is not a word as far as I can tell?

 

Um...where did I say leaving the number was manipulative? Of what I saw it was a deal breaker - the guy's been nasty in the past with the "we're 110% through" and I think she will only be hurt further.

 

Perfa = perfect.

[Zapbasket]

4whatitsworth, thanks. I really hope he's not nasty again, though as I said what I fear most is his total silence. That's the worst torture...not that my life doesn't move forward, but this continuing in silence? No can do.

 

He may have received my letter today. If not today, then definitely tomorrow. I was so nervous at midday today that my heart started pounding and I had to take a walk. I'm soooooo afraid he won't answer.... I'm not religious but I've prayed and prayed tonight that he'll answer and agree to open the lines of communication again.

 

This suspense. is. driving. me. crazy.

[underpants]

Um...where did I say leaving the number was manipulative? Of what I saw it was a deal breaker - the guy's been nasty in the past with the "we're 110% through" and I think she will only be hurt further.

 

Perfa = perfect.

 

Now you...

 

I think leaving the number off and making him ...work for it might be a little more manipulative. However, I see your point.

 

I just really don't get that kind of vibe here and if I did I probably would not respond.

 

You know Greencove. What you did was a risk. However, I think it was a risk you had to take....for your own peace of mind.

 

If he responds nastily then we will take it from there and probably surmise that he is not mature enough to handle you.

 

If he ignores you. Well, first of all we are not even going to consider that until Sept 10. If that should be the case then, again...not mature enough to handle you.

 

I am in your corner, and for what it is worth I spoke to the moon for you this evening as well.

 

Relax, as much as you can.

[4whatItsWorth]

4whatitsworth, thanks. I really hope he's not nasty again, though as I said what I fear most is his total silence. That's the worst torture...not that my life doesn't move forward, but this continuing in silence? No can do.

 

Trust me, I know EXACTLY what it feels like...in my case, with him opening communications I only found out that he is not different than he ever was - my "someone" is still a complete jerk who doesn't give toss about my feelings.

 

Sadly, with some guys no matter how nice you try to be...they just end up throwing it back into your face. I pray your situation will be different from mine...but experience tells me when exes behave that way - they don't really change. They can only hurt you over and over.

[Zapbasket]

Any support would be most welcome.

 

I'm really feeling low. The weekends are the worst for me, so much so that I actually look forward to the work week because even though I'm not loving my job right now at least while there I don't have to feel so bad.

 

I'm wishing I hadn't written him. I know he definitely received my note by now. He's not going to respond. I know it. And he saw my note, and if he even bothered to open it all he felt was, "How annoying, why won't she leave me alone?" 5 years, and even the last day I saw him, on Jan. 4, he was all attracted to me, asking where I got my [really nice] jacket and looking all bothered.

 

I wish I had the wisdom to understand how someone could do this. I can see myself throwing myself into another relationship, with someone I know in my gut I don't love and could never love, just so I can have the experience of being on the other side of this situation, of my feelings turning to disgust and contempt and me just wanting to get the person out of my face. Just so I can say, "Ah, now I understand what he felt."

 

He probably is going away for the long weekend. My timing was terrible. My birthday is coming up in just a few weeks and I know even if he had an inkling of a desire to reply to me it's too treacherous--before my birthday without acknowledging my birthday, after my birthday so he won't have to acknowledge my birthday.... No time works.

 

I feel so low. I don't want to kill myself, and have no intentions in that direction, but I want to die to make this all end. I want to forget everything about the past 5 years. I want to forget everything that ever had anything to do with him. I want to not have to feel like this. I want to die.

 

I don't see how you could hurt someone like this. I didn't do anything do deserve something like this. If he really doesn't care about me, then what would it cost him to respect me enough to at least meet with me for coffee and tell each other how we're doing? Why is expecting something like that naive? I just...want to die.

[underpants]

Greencove,

 

You are being over dramatic about this. Here, have a cookie.

 

He might not have even gotten this note yet. Really, this is a very plausable scenerio.

 

Also, he might have gotten it today and also had previous plans for this weekend and has not even opened it yet or noticed that it is a note from you. Or just maybe on the way out of town he forgot to even get his mail.

 

Also, he might have gotten it and read it. He might need some days to get his head together to respond. It took you a very long time to figure out what you wanted to do ...so just saying. Let him go through his thoughts and feelings too.

 

I didn't realize you had a birthday coming up. How old will you be?

 

Actually, your timing is kind of right on. If he gets a note from you and does not acknowlege you b'day when it comes around then you know for sure that he is out of there.

 

Why are you leaning to the worst case scenerio. We can't do that until Sept 10...or da da dom, your b'day.

 

Don't go down a spiral of negative thinking just because you are waiting. Waiting can be fun. Things to do while we wait... ... ...

 

Go play in the water cooler section. There are some very strange threads down there that could entertain you.

 

Seriously, my gut says he will respond at some point. I can't tell you what kind of response but my gut says he will.

 

So really all you can do is go about your normal routine for a little while longer. Maybe even with a smile on your face because you took an action.

[Zapbasket]

Greencove,

 

You are being over dramatic about this. Here, have a cookie.

 

Yeah, you're right. I wrote the previous post upon returning home from work and feeling the Friday relief coupled with the realization that I have no work to hide behind for 3 whole days, and I panicked.

 

He might not have even gotten this note yet. Really, this is a very plausable scenerio.

 

Also, he might have gotten it today and also had previous plans for this weekend and has not even opened it yet or noticed that it is a note from you. Or just maybe on the way out of town he forgot to even get his mail.

 

Also, he might have gotten it and read it. He might need some days to get his head together to respond. It took you a very long time to figure out what you wanted to do ...so just saying. Let him go through his thoughts and feelings too.

 

This is all true. I guess I'm terrified that he might have no thoughts and feelings, that he doesn't give a dingleberry about me or even the memory of me, that it's as though I never existed in his eyes. Very deep down I just can't see that to be possible; but as I've said my faith in my instincts is a little shaky lately.

 

I didn't realize you had a birthday coming up. How old will you be?

 

31. Ugh. This past year has been a crap welcome to the Joy that is one's Thirties. Then again, the year I was 20 was pretty awful, too. Maybe that's how it is to be for me: rather than start off with bang and fanfare, my decades will start with...splat.

 

Actually, your timing is kind of right on. If he gets a note from you and does not acknowlege you b'day when it comes around then you know for sure that he is out of there.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. It will feel like one step short of his hiring a Good Year blimp to float over Manhattan on my birthday with the message, "I could give two sh*ts about you."

 

Why are you leaning to the worst case scenerio. We can't do that until Sept 10...or da da dom, your b'day.

 

Don't go down a spiral of negative thinking just because you are waiting. Waiting can be fun.

 

Very very true; I really am being a Debbie Downer about this, aren't I? I did yank myself out of it this evening to try to plan a getaway for the weekend....

 

Seriously, my gut says he will respond at some point. I can't tell you what kind of response but my gut says he will.

 

I so hope you're right; I so want to believe your gut is right.

 

So really all you can do is go about your normal routine for a little while longer. Maybe even with a smile on your face because you took an action.

 

Thanks for the pick-me-up. I'm praying for a good outcome to this.

[Izzy B]

I accept that with him I'm always the one who has to take the initiative.

 

I'm sorry but if you have always been the one to take the initiative, that means he is just not into you and never really was. He never loved you, not if he was never taking any initiative in the relationship. A true love relationship is not one-sided. Also, if he is good-looking, athletic, successful in his career, etc. etc. etc. as you have stated, he is either 1. in a relationship or 2. having a very active dating life. There are many, many, many beautiful, educated women in NYC.

I'm sorry but you need to give this all up. He is not the one for you. I think it's possible that you took charge of the relationship that he didn't really want in the first place, and you convinced him that he loved you. You lead him and initiated everything, and that is not a real relationship. Like I said, it's not a one-sided thing where one person is making all the effort and initiating everything. Eventually the truth is going to come out within him and that is what happened, he went along for the ride and was compliant rather than sought you out and made efforts to spend his life with you and commit to you. This "relationship" was doomed from the start because it was something only you truly wanted and worked for, he did nothing.

[Zapbasket]

Mmm, Izzy, I really think it was more complicated than that. Not taking initiative is not the same as being a blob. I am one of those very attractive and educated NYC women and in addition I'm also very shrewd and believe me, if he just didn't love me I wouldn't be agoninzing like this. What is confusing and hurtful to me the most is that I know he loved me.

 

Ugh, I don't know if you've read all my threads but what do you get out of popping up on someone's thread and saying, "Yah he never loved you"? That doesn't wrap something up in a neat manageable little package for the poster, doesn't provide any new insight or help the poster deal with the problem at hand, and it's the easiest, most blanket conclusion to draw when someone breaks up with someone.

[Izzy B]

The statement that you are always the one making the inititiative says it all. A man who is in love doesn't let the woman he loves make all the initiative to keep the relationship going. seriously, it really sounds like you were pulling and he was going along for the ride.

You need a man who feels it in his heart and soul. Do yourself a favor and leave your exboyfriend in the past. Once you find a man who really feels it in his heart and soul for you, you will get it and never look back.

I wasn't saying you weren't attractive and such, it's just that after this much time, he hasn't contacted you, don't you think he has moved on and is in a relationship or out dating?

You should do yourself a favor and do the same! You aren't taking any "risks" here, he doesn't want you! I think in not contacting you at all, even in a friendly "let's be friends" way, he is doing you a favor to let you get him completely out of his system. He obviously knows your clinging and obsessive nature and wants you to pull the plug completely from codepending on him for happiness. Look at this as a good thing, you can move on to bigger and better things and you can both be happier than you ever were.

[Zapbasket]

Hmm, I agree that he didn't know what he wanted...about anything. He wasn't taking initiative in any area of his life--not with family, not with friends, not with work, not with me. And that's how he's always been; his good friend always joked that he was notoriously terrible with making decisions. He didn't know what he wanted, I pushed too hard, and he broke it off because I forced him to make a decision.

 

But, come on, "clinging and obsessive nature"? Because I wanted my partner to discuss with me problems we were having? Clinging? I chose not to move to his home city so that I could complete my education in the environment I thought best suited doing so. I'm one of the most independent people I know and all my friends would say the same. This has surprised and hurt me so much because this guy was truly the first person I genuinely let in. And he was constantly insecure that my various passions wouldn't leave room for him. I think that comment of yours is neither accurate nor helpful. As for being "obsessive," sure, I can be at times, and especially now because I am so surprised and hurt.

 

I agree with you that perhaps I need someone who knows himself a little better than he does and knows what he wants rather than goes along for the ride, as my partner always did. Again, though, I don't think his passivity meant he didn't love me; I felt his love for me or I wouldn't have stayed. He loved me, but he couldn't communicate, and my demands (after years of gentle requests) for communication drove him away. I don't think demanding communication is clingy.

[Zapbasket]

The statement that you are always the one making the inititiative says it all. A man who is in love doesn't let the woman he loves make all the initiative to keep the relationship going. seriously, it really sounds like you were pulling and he was going along for the ride.

You need a man who feels it in his heart and soul. Do yourself a favor and leave your exboyfriend in the past. Once you find a man who really feels it in his heart and soul for you, you will get it and never look back.

I wasn't saying you weren't attractive and such, it's just that after this much time, he hasn't contacted you, don't you think he has moved on and is in a relationship or out dating?

You should do yourself a favor and do the same! You aren't taking any "risks" here, he doesn't want you! I think in not contacting you at all, even in a friendly "let's be friends" way, he is doing you a favor to let you get him completely out of his system. He obviously knows your clinging and obsessive nature and wants you to pull the plug completely from codepending on him for happiness. Look at this as a good thing, you can move on to bigger and better things and you can both be happier than you ever were.

 

 

I really think you're making something black and white that really isn't black and white. This whole "a man who is in love" thing--those generalizations might be true in the beginning of a relationship; I'm old-fashioned in that I expect to be pursued or the person will never get a date. But as a relationship progresses, if you're a man who deals with conflict by distancing, you're not going to take initiative. That's not lack of love.

 

Also, I highly doubt he's not contacting me for any benefit of mine. If anything, HE codepended on ME for his happiness. I've never codepended on ANYONE. I contacted him because I know deep in my gut that this break-up was much more complicated than just, "I don't love you." That would've been easy: I don't want to be with someone who doesn't love me. Depending upon his mind frame, sure, he could see my card all these months later as clingy, but that would be because he doesn't want to have to deal...and that would be his problem.

 

I have a hard time seeing value in your posts because you thow out so many blanket generalizations and pseudopsych that I don't even feel you know of or are responding to my situation.

[Izzy B]

You are the pseudo-psychologist here. You are trying to make it sooooo complicated.

1. Did he break up with you eight months or so ago?

2. Has he contacted you wanting to get back together?

 

It's as simple as the answer to those questions, the same answer to those questions is the same question of "Does he love me and want to get back together with me?"

You really have no choice but to think of it that way because the writing's on the wall. Stop torturing yourself and making excuses for the guy and convincing yourself he does still love you and it's a possibility that it's happening for the two of you.

[Zapbasket]

Um...I can't be a pseudo-psychologist.

 

I get your meaning: he hasn't contacted me. A "psychological" point of view is that there could be a million reasons for this; this is the pov I come from when I advise others because it's a point of view that dictates that you can't take it too personally when someone behaves towards you in a certain way. Most of the time it has more to do with THEM than it has to do with YOU. People break up with their partners because they're afraid, because their feelings changed, because their needs changed, because they need to be alone to find themselves, because they feel inferior, because they don't know how to handle intimacy, because they don't know what they want, because they do know what they want, and so on. It's a big, broad continuum that constantly changes and very rarely does it come down to some kind of ultimate determination they made about YOU, who you are, etc. This is what I mean when I say it's much more complex than, "He doesn't want me." Recognizing that fact does NOT mean that I therefore believe he does want me. It just means that I recognize that it's complex and I needn't take it so personally, or negate my memories of the high esteem in which we held each other overall.

 

But where do you get the idea that I'm thinking it's "happening" for the two of us? Reaching out is just that, nothing more. I used the one thing I DO know about this situation--that I care very much for him--to make a decision to do what seemed to ME to be the right thing. That's it. Of course, ideally I'd love it if the chance arose for us to get back together. But that might not, in reality, even be possible for ME--before I even consider whether it's possible or not for HIM. See the difference?

 

Life's short, and the only thing you can really do is be true to what you care about. I care about him, and I also care about myself. I'm trying to find the right balance in myself between these two things I care about. And this will take some time.

[underpants]

Greencove,

 

I do think you did the right thing for YOU by reaching out.

 

It is up to him to decide what to do, or not do.

 

I do see that during your relationship with him that you attempted to coax discussions with him about emotions, feelings, ambitions and what not.

 

Maybe he just could not handle all that introspection and deep thoughts into the inner workings of his mind. He might have just gotten overwhelmed by the analysis or scared at the idea of ...deep thinking?

 

Maybe he just didn't want to deal so that prompted the give up on it.

 

I doub't his communication ways have changed any.

[Zapbasket]

Greencove,

 

I do think you did the right thing for YOU by reaching out.

 

I do too, the moreso now that I did it.

 

It is up to him to decide what to do, or not do.

 

Yes, and that is the source of a lot of hurt and disappointment, possibly...or surprise. Either way it will be something I'll have to deal with.

 

I do see that during your relationship with him that you attempted to coax discussions with him about emotions, feelings, ambitions and what not.

 

Maybe he just could not handle all that introspection and deep thoughts into the inner workings of his mind. He might have just gotten overwhelmed by the analysis or scared at the idea of ...deep thinking?

 

Maybe he just didn't want to deal so that prompted the give up on it.

 

Yeah, and the irony is that really, I didn't want introspection and long philosophical discussion, I just wanted him to come to the table and tell me what he wanted, what he needed, rather than store everything up and set up "tests" for me that I wouldn't know I was "taking" (he admitted to me years ago that he did this) and then withdrawing when he things weren't to his liking and leaving me to guess what I was supposed to do to make him happy. I wanted *that* so that we could have more fun, because then issues wouldn't keep hanging in the air all the time.

 

I doub't his communication ways have changed any.

 

I doubt it, too. But mine may. It's true that I do think very deeply and carefully about things. Starting in junior high school, I became a class clown to hide just how intensely I felt about things. Then, in my 20s, I worked hard on myself to begin sharing that side of me more, and my friendships blossomed. Now, after this break up and some other experiences, I wonder if maybe I need to curb myself more. Maybe it's better to just "keep it light" with people for the most part. This is something I'm trying to figure out.

 

He kept to himself (though he said he shared more with me than he'd ever shared with anyone including his own family), and I really tried to share everything. I thought it was important because I was making a lot of career and value changes and I thought it made me a better, more honest partner if I tried to keep him abreast of decisions I was making that would impact our future together. In the end, though, his silence gave him all the power, even as it made him seem "weak" in the relationship. So you see, this is why I'm confused about this whole thing with communication. Maybe I need to make some radical changes in my style.

[tinke]

g.c.

NO REGRETS!!! you were most likely conitinuing in a circle if you had not contacted him.

 

years from now, you will have the peace that you did attempt to meet with him, etc. i understand your hopes (not a thing wrong with that). the letter was for YOU, and only YOU know what you need to do to to find some sort of path to begin anew again. (either way).

 

more later

[Zapbasket]

Hi Tinke, good to 'see you around.' How are you doing?

 

Thanks for the encouragement. I do have hopes, [un]fortunately, and probably will until I someday somehow have contact with him and we have opportunity to see and respond to one another in a new light, and new set of circumstances. I do care for him so very, very much, and miss him, and I'm glad I reached out...even as I rant that I wish I hadn't.

[Izzy B]

Greencove, I know you're trying to look oh-so-intelligent and witty with your snarky comments, but you certainly are no real psychologist, that is obvious.

You need to just accept that he doesn't want you. I don't see how it could be anymore clearer that he does not want you in his life. It is almost amusing to see how it always comes back to you trying to validate with excuse after excuse after excuse that he actually is and was ever into you at all.

Honey, someday you will experience real love and be happy the breakup actually happened so you could experience it. However, you have to let go of this one in order to be able to experience real love and a true relationship with someone.