I know my story is no different than most, but...

[smartgirl]

I think you give me a little too much credit. Yes, I value my marriage. 100% devoted to my spouse? I don't know. I will say that I had the opportunity to go out to lunch with my plutonic friend today or my wife. I chose to call my wife and we had lunch instead.

 

I do say that I won't cheat, but I can't say that I don't think (think only) about it. I have not told my wife all of my feelings. I have begun the discussion, but I am easing into it. I haven't gotten serious about counselling. I'm kind of like MS and am trying to work through it on these boards, which is probably not the smartest thing in the world to do. I read threads like EYs' and Sally's and I feel so much like them, I start to slip back into my self-pity mode.

 

I really do need to find out what will make me happy. I know(at least I think) my wife really loves me. She tells me she does all of the time. Her actions seem to indicate that she does. Sometimes I doubt that though, thinking she just may be in self-preservation mode, seeing the same consequences of divorce that I do. I suppose that is because of the way I have been feeling. Lately, it probably seems that I really love her too. I have been very attentive, sex has been great, and I have been spending a ton of time with her and yet I still have doubts about my feelings.

 

I hate the idea of IC, I've know a ton of psychologists and they all seem to be crazier than I. I suppose it really needs to be done, but I just can't pull the trigger. Heck, I really don't even know how to go about finding a good one. It's not like I can just ask all of my acquaintances if they know a good MC.

 

I'm feeling a lot like EY and MS, but unlike MS I still think my choices are:

 

Divorce and live with the consequences.

 

Stay married, however I do still have the hope that I can be happy again, but worry that I may not be.

 

The one choice I don't feel like I have is to cheat. I just don't want to hurt my wife that way. By the way, I'm pretty sure wife swapping is out of the question too.

 

SSOB, I am getting a weird feeling like the wheels came off the bus somewhere. I had the impression that you were pretty committed to your wife and marriage and were trying to avoid a destructive situation. Further, I thought you were interested in trying to figure out what was going on inside and take measures to fix that and the marriage.

 

Now it seems like you are not talking so positively about your marriage and don't want to be bothered looking into counselling. Of course, if it had been left up to my H we would have muddled along in pain for years and he still would have never put the effort into finding a counselor.

 

If you think you are going to work something through on these boards you are kidding yourself. Many of the people on these boards will tell you to go for it on the affair and that if you are experiencing a lowpoint in the marriage to just bail. EVERYONE goes through lowpoints in the marriage. Sometimes they get fixed with time and sometimes you make changes. I went through two periods in our 30-year marriage where I felt like it just wasn't working for me - loss of passion, etc. Each time my feelings boomaranged back and I felt as in love with him as I had at the beginning.

 

But as I said, you will get a lot of different opinions on these boards. Since you already indicated that some of the threads were making you feel sorry for yourself (and I presume make you feel like indulging your feelings for the OW) it seems they are already having a bad effect.

 

I can believe that you are feeling the marriage is stale and not quite doing it for you at the moment. Those feelings can occur whether anything is really wrong there or not. It could just be you and the way you are feeling about yourself. But you had lunch with your wife instead of your friend and you seem fairly determined to avoid an affair.

 

Here is a potential problem I see: If you had a full blown affair and your wife found out you would feel so guilty that you would do anything you could to make it up to her and not complain. But maybe since you didn't do that and the guilty feelings you had for making out are starting to fade you are starting to feel like all this work is, well, work and why should you have to put so much effort into this. Maybe you are starting to resent the wife a little. You aren't going to get as much good feedback from her for your efforts as you would have if she knew what you were doing and why. That can start to make you feel like you are doing a lot of work for little return and the idea of sacrificing something that seems fun and exciting and fulfilling for all that work can make you feel put upon.

 

It sounds like you are doing a lot of things that can pay off for you. As far as IC, if your insurance company has a website they will list psychologists that participate in your area. That's where I started. I asked my IC to recommend a MC and that has turned out great.

 

You didn't get to this point overnight and getting back won't happen overnight either. But give it all you have. Please at least get "after the affair." Despite the title, it also addresses people in your situation and can help you understand some of the feelings you are having better. I put my "infidelity" and "self help" books inside the dust jacket of other books so I can carry them around with me and read them in public. Stealth improvement.

 

Give your wife a chance to make you happy. But to do that, you have to be able to tell her what that is. Can you?

[Mustang Sally]

Give your wife a chance to make you happy. But to do that, you have to be able to tell her what that is.

SmartGirl - this is a very good piece of advice.

You are truly a smart girl.

I really appreciate the sharing and advice you give here.

[bestadvisor]

I think you give me a little too much credit. Yes, I value my marriage. 100% devoted to my spouse? I don't know. I will say that I had the opportunity to go out to lunch with my plutonic friend today or my wife. I chose to call my wife and we had lunch instead.

 

Sorry, I got you mix up with Treatment who started the "My wife doesn't know". I would say you're 80% devoted to your wife.

 

Who is this plutonic friend? Are there any potential for feeling?

[IamASelfishSOB]

Give your wife a chance to make you happy. But to do that, you have to be able to tell her what that is. Can you?

 

No I cannot. I know. I know. IC.

 

I'll find the book, also. Thanks again.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Sorry, I got you mix up with Treatment who started the "My wife doesn't know". I would say you're 80% devoted to your wife.

 

Who is this plutonic friend? Are there any potential for feeling?

 

Female friend at work. Yes I care about her, but purely plutonic.... seriously. My wife does get jealous, though. I know that's a problem. I'm working on it.

[Mustang Sally]

No I cannot. I know. I know. IC.

You can't tell her how to make you happy?

Why?

 

Because you, yourself, don't know?

 

Or because you don't want to have that particular discussion with her?

(Too painful? or some other reason?)

[bestadvisor]

Female friend at work. Yes I care about her, but purely plutonic.... seriously. My wife does get jealous, though. I know that's a problem. I'm working on it.

 

Is she single? Any potential for something more someday? How many of these "female friends" from work do you have?

 

Would you be comfortable if your wife goes out to lunch with some man alone, even if she tells you that they are just friends who work together?

[IamASelfishSOB]

If you think you are going to work something through on these boards you are kidding yourself. Many of the people on these boards will tell you to go for it on the affair and that if you are experiencing a lowpoint in the marriage to just bail. EVERYONE goes through lowpoints in the marriage. Sometimes they get fixed with time and sometimes you make changes. I went through two periods in our 30-year marriage where I felt like it just wasn't working for me - loss of passion, etc. Each time my feelings boomaranged back and I felt as in love with him as I had at the beginning.

 

I can pretty much filter out the idiots. It's the posters like MS and EY that give me troubles. Both of them could be my OW, by the way. So familiar. I only wish that there were more success stories on this board. Like yours. Not a lot of those lately.

 

Here is a potential problem I see: If you had a full blown affair and your wife found out you would feel so guilty that you would do anything you could to make it up to her and not complain. But maybe since you didn't do that and the guilty feelings you had for making out are starting to fade you are starting to feel like all this work is, well, work and why should you have to put so much effort into this. Maybe you are starting to resent the wife a little. You aren't going to get as much good feedback from her for your efforts as you would have if she knew what you were doing and why. That can start to make you feel like you are doing a lot of work for little return and the idea of sacrificing something that seems fun and exciting and fulfilling for all that work can make you feel put upon.

 

Yes, this is a problem. The guilt is still there, but you're right. The sense of urgency from my wife is not. I do think about telling her more, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm just not ready for the sh$t to hit the fan.

 

I think I may try to stay away from this board for a while. I'll come back if something significant happens.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Is she single? Any potential for something more someday? How many of these "female friends" from work do you have?

 

Would you be comfortable if your wife goes out to lunch with some man alone, even if she tells you that they are just friends who work together?

 

No. She's married.... happily. She is a very Christian person and is a one of my best friends. Most of the time my wife is fine with our relationship, but since I started behaving strangely, she has gotten nervous lately. There are very few people in our office. She is one of the very few that I can really stand to be around. I really intended for the OW to be this kind of friend as well, but she just turned out to be too much like me. I know. I know. Very dangerous.

[Mustang Sally]

SSOB -

Sorry to be causing you troubles.

That was certainly not my intent.

I was just sharing my opinion on the subject, from one woman's personal experience.

I had hoped maybe it would be helpful (?) to hear someone else's experience.

 

I am sure I am not your OW, because I have not made any physical contact with anyone I have had any attraction to!

Can't speak for EY....

 

Anyway, take time away if you find it helpful.

I wish you happiness and success in resolving this conflict.

Sincerely.

[IamASelfishSOB]

SSOB -

Sorry to be causing you troubles.

That was certainly not my intent.

I was just sharing my opinion on the subject, from one woman's personal experience.

I had hoped maybe it would be helpful (?) to hear someone else's experience.

 

I am sure I am not your OW, because I have not made any physical contact with anyone I have had any attraction to!

Can't speak for EY....

 

Anyway, take time away if you find it helpful.

I wish you happiness and success in resolving this conflict.

Sincerely.

 

Seriously. No worries really. I just wish someone like you would just reveal the secret to marital bliss after floundering for a period of time and then I could leave altogether.

[Mustang Sally]

Seriously. No worries really. I just wish someone like you would just reveal the secret to marital bliss after floundering for a period of time and then I could leave altogether.

Turn on your PM capability, if you have it.

Then I'll send you the secret!

[bestadvisor]

Most of the time my wife is fine with our relationship, but since I started behaving strangely, she has gotten nervous lately.

 

If your wife is nervous, she will investigate more and it might be just a matter of time that she will find out. If she found out from other sources than you, it's going to be hell.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Turn on your PM capability, if you have it.

Then I'll send you the secret!

 

Sorry, no PM capability. If only. Outside of paying I'm not sure how you get PM capability.

[Mustang Sally]

Membership time and number of posts.

I think your post number is ok (I thought you just had to have over 50) but maybe your membership is still too new?

Check your My Profile page to be sure...

[Mustang Sally]

Look.

I'm pretty sure the "secret" is simply in making up your mind that you are going to stick it out and be content with what you can get out of your relationship. And being willing to do whatever hard work is required to "keep the spark alive." (Or some such other cliche that we have heard before.)

 

Seriously.

I doubt there is much mystery to it.

But you, likely, already suspected as much.

 

I think the problem arises when you start to doubt that you want to stick it out with this person anymore. That what you are feeling is not a "temporary dry spell" anymore, but rather the permanent disappearance of "love" (and I do mean love - and not lust) for the person you married. And, again, believe me that I am aware of the waxing and waning of desire for one's spouse over time.

 

My personal situation is that I don't know that I will recover from the "dry spell" I am having for my H. People post a lot on here about "how would you feel if your spouse were having that kind of a relationship with a work friend?" In general, I think this is a good wake-up call for most. My problem is that I don't believe I would care...

 

This hopefully is not where you are at. It sounds like you have your head and heart pointed in the right direction (wanting to put all your efforts into your M and forget about your OW). I think you just need some jump-starting to get it moving along. I still think that plain old honest communication with your W is one of the best ways to do that.

 

Good Luck to you.

If you get your PMs figured out, let me know.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Jeebuz!!!

My head is still spinning from that last post, FiC....

"It's YOUR fault only...buy her sexy underwear...treat her right...take control like a man..." etc...

 

 

Mustan Sally, (like the name),

 

Yes it's your fault --- what I mean by that is you are responsible for your happiness, not that you can always fix a dead battery or a bad marriage. But blaming others for your unhappiness isn't going to get you happiness.

 

On this thread we've got another man whining about his wife and contemplating an affair.

 

OK, fine, like all of us we have these few choices.

 

1. try to fix our relationship and maybe it won't be fixable... maybe it will.

2. live with a bad situation and suffer, be miserable and live out our lives unfulfilled.

3. cheat and hope we get away with it and hope that provides some happiness. that old lovin' feeling.

4. divorce and move on. which may or may not get us to a more satisfying relationship.

 

after 1 fails we're left with just three choices, none of which seem very good. Many would say 4 is the only viable or honorable option. Or perhaps 2 (living with the "worse" part of the vow). But none are good choices. They are all the lessor of evils.

 

4 has all the draw backs of bad impacts on kids, finances, and emotional trauma.

3 seems to offer some hope, so long as the SO doesn't find out. But of course the cheater will know and that does something to most honorable people.

 

So what is the answer? What's the best solution to a bad situation?

 

But at the end of the day, what ever happens to your life is your fault or a better way to put it - your responsibility. You can make the best of a bad marriage or give up and move on one way or another.

 

I don't know what the best answer is. I don't know that there always is a good answer. Life just sucks sometimes. And it isn't the same aswer for everyone. But I do think being honest, even brutally honest, is the best for all concerned. That's why I somewhat flippantly said all four of the people involved directly or indirectly in SOB's situation talk it over. Will hiding the unhappiness of some of those people make the situation any better?

[bestadvisor]

It seems that Mustang Sally doens't mind that much that her husband is on top of another woman. The question to the OP is, how would you feel if another man is on top of your wife? If your answer is different from Mustang Sally's, you're at a very differnt place than where she's at. If so, stop comparing yourself and your feelings to Mustang Sally or EmotionallyYours.

[Mustang Sally]

So what is the answer? What's the best solution to a bad situation?

 

But at the end of the day, what ever happens to your life is your fault or a better way to put it - your responsibility. You can make the best of a bad marriage or give up and move on one way or another.

 

I don't know what the best answer is. I don't know that there always is a good answer. Life just sucks sometimes. And it isn't the same aswer for everyone. But I do think being honest, even brutally honest, is the best for all concerned. That's why I somewhat flippantly said all four of the people involved directly or indirectly in SOB's situation talk it over. Will hiding the unhappiness of some of those people make the situation any better?

Thanks for that, Flyin.

 

I agree with what you are saying about personal responsibility. It's something I take very seriously in my life.

 

And I agree with the honesty you are advocating. I have always found that even when I think it will be painful (and sometimes it is), I can at least sleep with myself at night when I know I've been honest with myself and those I interact with.

 

That is why I'm having difficulty understanding SSOB's reluctance to talk HONESTLY with his W about what is really going on in his head.

[Flyin in Clouds]

FIC,

 

Wife swapping? Seriously, you spent a lot of time on your post and you lost me right there. I really don't think that's the answer. Hopefully you weren't serious.

 

Yeah, you didn't read down far enough to catch the "for the sarcasm impaired" ...

 

Try reading the whole thing.... you may disagree which is fine, but you might find something useful.

 

And I was only half joking... You and your OW were obviously interested in fooling around. That's a half swap. Why would you object IF your wife and OW's H were interested? Would it bother you that your wife just might like to do what you did? It might just break the bordedom in everyone's marriage. As I said, it works for some. Maybe it wouldn't work for you.

 

But the bigger issue is you now have this awful secret that you can't share with your wife. And that's something that divides you. And what if she had her own near miss affair in the past? And she can't share that with you. You have secrets from each other and I don't think that is every a good thing in a relationship.

 

Read my last post and tell me which of the last three you're going to settle fo if 1 doesn't work.

[Mustang Sally]

Another question for you, FiC.

 

Regarding your option 1), as outlined in your post, above:

At what point does one decide that the M is not fixable?

What are the signs that you have arrived at that destination?

[whichwayisup]

Sorry, no PM capability. If only. Outside of paying I'm not sure how you get PM capability.

 

Start posting and replying to others in other sections, get your post count up - It's a combo of time on LS and how many posts together.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

If you include lusting after women as adultery, then every man I know has cheated. Simply looking at someone such as (name of celebrity) can classify us as cheaters.

It's a thought crime... me and Jimmy Carter.

 

The point was more about "lust"... Lust is selfishness. Love is the opposite. A selflessness. Love is being more concerned about the happiness of the other than our own happiness. Christ said if we look at a women with lust... it's the same as adultry. Well He didn't exclude our own wife from that. Even if we look at our own wife with lust, instead of love, it's a sin.

 

And I suppose this is the one catch all that makes all us men sinnners... oh, well...

 

Many couples have rebuilt their marriage after cheating/affairs.

I didn't say they couldn't.

 

Many alcoholics "recover" from alcoholism, but according to Bill W. you are never "cured". You are always an alcoholic and always in "recovery".

 

And as for alcoholics not changing, I really know that this is wrong. Let me just say that I know some who have quite drinking and have never had another drink for many years. Of course, one can always say that as long as they are alive, they can still drink.

Have you read the big book or been to an AA meeting? If not you don't understand. My son is an alcoholic. He will always be an alcoholic even if he never has a another drink the rest of his life. He's been sober for 1 year. Tomorrow it will be one year and one day.

 

A cheater will always be a cheater, even if they never cheat again. All they can say is they have not cheated for a year, or two or ten. Do you understand? It will always be a struggle not to fall off the wagon so to speak.

 

No, there is a lot of hope for the OP. By saying that he may as well not bother because he cannot change anyhow, you simply say to him to either cheat...or well, cheat.

No, wrong reading.

 

Hi, my name is ImaSelfishSOB. I'm a cheater. I haven't cheated for 4 months, 2 weeks and 3 days.

 

(yes, reading the big book of AA and the twelve steps... may help. Those steps can work for all sorts of problems).

 

Back to the Lust/Love thing... a lot of the complaints from men is that their wives stop putting out... no sex or bad sex or ...

 

And why do women do that? Well sometimes, maybe most times, it's because the wife feels her husband no longer loves her or at least he doesn't make her feel loved. She gets taken for granted. In other words he lusts after her but doesn't truly love her. And for women it's all about the emotional side. The physical act is just icing on that cake. If there is no cake there they don't want the icing. sorry if that's too graphic.

 

And women can do the same thing. Take their H's for granted, so the H doesn't "feel" loved or needed or wanted or respected and so he's less inclined to reciprocate. and the relationship enters a death spiral - crashing and burning. If something is right in your relationship, somebody has to take hold of the controls and fly the plane. Gentlemen that pilot in command would be you.

 

The disease is too much familiarity. It's kind of hard to have the "new love" feeling after living with someone for 10, 20 or 30 years. And may be that can't be fixed in every case. I do know when I think about the things I am unhappy about I come back to why did I let it get that way? Little by little, imperceptibly, we let relationship atrophy. Dying on the vine. And then when everything is just too much to bear anymore it all collapses. Tragically.

 

Retain the spirt of youth, the actions of your youth and maybe you keep your relationship healthy for a long time.

 

One other factor is maybe well all expect too much. We're too impatient with ourselves and our spouse.

[Flyin in Clouds]

EY -

I so understand what you said in your earlier post about one day thinking you deserve it (whatever IT is that you think you might find outside your M) and the next being absolutely filled with self-loathing about how you could ever think that! It describes my state of mind perfectly.

 

Just wanted to say (again) that I know where you are coming from.

 

I wish you (and SSOB) the best in the process of reconciling the issues.

Sally, I wrestle with the same issues over the years you, EY, SSOB and many other on her do. Wantng more. Feeling I'm not getting it. It's her fault. No wait it's my fault. No it's no one's fault. And it's so hard to try to fix. Should I cheat? Should I divorce? Can I fix it? Is this as good as it gets?

 

Given the cheating rate and divorce rate seem this is a wide spread problem.

[IamASelfishSOB]

OK, fine, like all of us we have these few choices.

 

1. try to fix our relationship and maybe it won't be fixable... maybe it will.

2. live with a bad situation and suffer, be miserable and live out our lives unfulfilled.

3. cheat and hope we get away with it and hope that provides some happiness. that old lovin' feeling.

4. divorce and move on. which may or may not get us to a more satisfying relationship.

 

after 1 fails we're left with just three choices, none of which seem very good. Many would say 4 is the only viable or honorable option. Or perhaps 2 (living with the "worse" part of the vow). But none are good choices. They are all the lessor of evils.

 

4 has all the draw backs of bad impacts on kids, finances, and emotional trauma.

3 seems to offer some hope, so long as the SO doesn't find out. But of course the cheater will know and that does something to most honorable people.

 

OK, 3 is out. I'm just not going to do it again. You know, I truly don't think it's an issue. Yes, you can label me a cheater, because I cheated. Before this incident occurred, I never really gave cheating and the consequences any serious thought. I just dismissed it as something that would never happen. Obviously, I knew it was a bad thing to do. I just never truly considered the consequences. I've now run every scenario through my head and I just won't let it happen again.

 

I truly have no idea whether I will pick 2 or 4. Let's pull for #1. I still care about my wife. There have been times that I have been truly in love with my wife. Right now is just not one of them. I know I love my kids. I know that I love being a family.

 

I'm thinking of sitting down and laying it out on the table with my wife. I'm not going to incriminate the OW. I can't make the decision to ruin her family for her. I think I can get this done with that stipulation. It won't be for a couple of months though. I am in a crunch time at work and I can't deal with it now. If I don't, we just as well get a divorce or we will be broke. After that, my wife and I are going on a vacation together. I'm going to make that a good experience for both of us. It is something that we can enjoy together. After that life will get back to normal and I'll deal with this situation.