Topic on morals, cheating, and most men

[marlena]

Bish, I am speaking for myself or haven't you noticed? Who are you speaking for, might I know?

[a4a]

Fidelity for many men is the lack of opportunity. Under the right inhibition-reducing conditions, many of which lindya described, very many men would have extra-marital relations: alcohol, a Xmas party, a very flirtatious female colleague, drugs, close friendship with a woman at work, etc.

 

These "social lubricant" factors grease the skids for that slide into infidelity; they are "affair catalysts."

 

Men aren't born evil or unfaithful. Combine a healthy sex drive with an inhibition relaxing setting and a willing partner, however, one has the perfect affair recipe: the so-called cakeman.

 

At bottom, an affair is a relationship, and men, like women, are social and sexual mammals.

 

Do all men cheat? Of course not. Would most cheat under the influence of the right combo of affair catalysts?

 

You bet.

 

 

Interesting how many admit they might just do it if the circumstances were right..... I'm sure many women would do the same.

 

I know mine won't because I will castrate him and feed his nuts to Ted if I ever found out even the slightest hint of him cheating. :lmao:

[lindya]

Fidelity for many men is the lack of opportunity. Under the right inhibition-reducing conditions, many of which lindya described, very many men would have extra-marital relations: alcohol, a Xmas party, a very flirtatious female colleague, drugs, close friendship with a woman at work, etc.

 

These "social lubricant" factors grease the skids for that slide into infidelity; they are "affair catalysts."

 

....Do all men cheat? Of course not. Would most cheat under the influence of the right combo of affair catalysts?

 

You bet.

 

Yes. I think one of the difficulties in discussing infidelity on LS is that a lot of people are trying to regain their ability to trust a partner after being cheated on in a former relationship - and part of that process perhaps involves a feeling that "I must not become bitter and cynical. I must strive to believe that there is someone out there for me who won't be unfaithful."

 

The drawback is that if one gets to a state of black and white "people are either cheats or they aren't" thinking, then it becomes harder to discuss those situations in which a normally faithful partner might be tempted to stray.

 

I think it's in both parties interests to keep their eyes open about this. If a partner of mine were about involved in a situation that engendered greater risk of cheating then I'd want to be able to have some sort of discussion that would minimise the cheating risk, without being labelled insecure, paranoid or mistrustful.

 

Let's take the platonic friend situation. These are difficult for a partner to address without sounding possessive or insecure - but the fact is that platonic friendships do often lead to something more. Especially in situations where there's alcohol plus opportunity. In a situation like that I believe it's betterl for both people to be able to feel able to acknowledge that realistically there is a risk of infidelity which, if it occurs, may well destroy the relationship irrevocably.

 

The alternatives involve turning a blind eye or taking a vague and disorganised "I'll deal with it if and when it happens" approach. In a situation like that, I'd far rather that we could be honest with eachother. What are the factors that might increase the risk, and how can they be dealt with? Is the person who's likely to cheat actually motivated to reduce the chance of it happened? If not, either an open relationship or a break up is probably on the cards.

 

Discussing these things is less about one person being paranoid and the other being untrustworthy, more about recognising that these temptations do arise in certain circumstances - which often aren't fully anticipated and therefore properly managed when they occur. In practice, however, I think it's very difficult.

 

I've been in that situation where I've seen quite clearly that a partner was liable to cheat on me because various "risk factors" were present - but attempts to discuss it met with a combination of vehement denial that anything would happen, and veiled suggestions that I was being a little paranoid. Then when he did cheat on me, it was suggested that I'd made it happen by putting ideas into his head. I tortured myself for quite a bit of time over that one, but in that case I think we just didn't have a good enough relationship and good enough communication to effectively address that cheating risk. I think it was something he was going to do, whatever efforts I made to try to prevent it from happening...but that needn't be the case in every relationship.

[Mustang Sally]

I have no idea whether "most men" would cheat or not, given any certain circumstances. But I could certainly see it as a possibility.

 

Because I too - one who lived 30+ years of life never thinking an A was even in the same potential universe as me - have seen temptation. And thus far walked away.

 

Does this mean I have no character?

No integrity?

No morals?

No convictions?

 

I don't think so.

 

It just means I am FALLIBLE.

I am human.

Heck - I'll even go so far as to say: I'm a SINNER.

(Can I get an "Amen" brothers and sisters?)

 

But guess what?

The last time I checked, we ALL are.

 

It could happen to ANYONE.

Temptation does not discriminate.

 

The integrity, character, morals, and convictions come into play when we WALK AWAY from temptation. They do not guarantee that temptation will never find us.

 

I do not believe that "most men" have no character, morals, integrity, or convictions.

[luvmy2ns]

"Moral McCarthyism?" LMFAOROF:lmao:

 

So now it's sounding like it's a BAD thing to promote faithfulness to one's committed partner. Geez! Methinks the dost protest too much. Let me translate that for you: You must be a cheater.

[directx]

I'm glad I'm close to perfect!

[luvmy2ns]

I have no idea whether "most men" would cheat or not, given any certain circumstances. But I could certainly see it as a possibility.

 

Because I too - one who lived 30+ years of life never thinking an A was even in the same potential universe as me - have seen temptation. And thus far walked away.

 

Does this mean I have no character?

No integrity?

No morals?

No convictions?

 

I don't think so.

 

It just means I am FALLIBLE.

I am human.

Heck - I'll even go so far as to say: I'm a SINNER.

(Can I get an "Amen" brothers and sisters?)

 

But guess what?

The last time I checked, we ALL are.

 

It could happen to ANYONE.

Temptation does not discriminate.

 

The integrity, character, morals, and convictions come into play when we WALK AWAY from temptation. They do not guarantee that temptation will never find us.

 

I do not believe that "most men" have no character, morals, integrity, or convictions.

 

But, see, the point is that, per the part I bolded in the quote, you DO have integrity, character, morals, and convictions. You did NOT cheat. Pondering it and diving in are two WAAAAYYYY different things.

[Mustang Sally]

You did NOT cheat. Pondering it and diving in are two WAAAAYYYY different things.

Of course, I happen to agree with you on that.

 

Certainly, in the last few days, it has become apparent that there are many here who do NOT see these two things as different.

I guess that is what I was trying to address - the thought that pondering it, or even being out there for temptation to find you (such as in a workplace friendship that starts to feel "different") is equivalent to cheating and that utterly and completely avoiding these types of scenarios is an easy, or even achieveable task...

[Trialbyfire]

It really is as easy as 1, 2, 3. Perhaps it's because I prefer not to muddy waters with justifications and try to look to the core of any problem.

 

Life is full of decisions. The decision to live your life in a healthy manner with healthy relationships is a choice. If you want to live a life full of healthy relationships, you work towards that.

 

I live my life as such. Am I happy or unhappy. If I'm unhappy, what's making me unhappy? Once I've figured out what's making me unhappy, I decide if it can be fixed on my side. If it's a relationship and the issue lies with another person, we discuss it. If we can't either come to a compromise or a bending by one party or another and the issue is that important to me, I walk away.

 

All the understanding and justifications won't change these simple rules of engagement for healthy relationships.

[luvmy2ns]

Of course, I happen to agree with you on that.

 

Certainly, in the last few days, it has become apparent that there are many here who do NOT see these two things as different.

I guess that is what I was trying to address - the thought that pondering it, or even being out there for temptation to find you (such as in a workplace friendship that starts to feel "different") is equivalent to cheating and that utterly and completely avoiding these types of scenarios is an easy, or even achieveable task...

 

Those situations will come to pass, most certainly. However, do you then seek out more time with said co-worker without any thought for what that may lead to? Do you nurture that growing feeling of wanting? Or do you recognize it and take steps to distance yourself? Do you look inside your own relationship and make an attempt to fix any problems that may arise? Or do you just go on your merry way, making yourself and ONLY yourself superficially happy, regardless of how you may hurt the people in your life?

[Pyro]

I have seen some people on the forum say that, they feel, most men would cheat if given the opportunity. This was a discussion that was going on at my work yesterday over lunch too. Some of the people there, also felt that most men would. So here is my question, what about men with high morals and family values etc, do you feel if opportunity knocked at their door, they would cheat also? Or is the statement, "most men would cheat if given the opportunity" just based on men with low morals?

 

Ok, discuss.

 

Anyone who says that most men would cheat are just bitter towards men. Its probably due to the fact that they were screwed over by a guy in the past. They are probably just saying it because they are mad.

 

Yes some men do cheat but it is going overboard to say most or even 99%.

 

Maybe IN THEIR life and what they have seen most guys cheat, but they do not speak for all of us and we all perceive things differently.

[PandorasBox]

Those situations will come to pass, most certainly. However, do you then seek out more time with said co-worker without any thought for what that may lead to? Do you nurture that growing feeling of wanting? Or do you recognize it and take steps to distance yourself? Do you look inside your own relationship and make an attempt to fix any problems that may arise? Or do you just go on your merry way, making yourself and ONLY yourself superficially happy, regardless of how you may hurt the people in your life?

 

I really like this reply, and its true. Good post!

[bish]

Fidelity for many men is the lack of opportunity.

 

Wrong. I have had several opportunities and proposals....and never once did I ever cheat. Didn't want to.

 

 

Under the right inhibition-reducing conditions, many of which lindya described, very many men would have extra-marital relations: alcohol, a Xmas party, a very flirtatious female colleague, drugs, close friendship with a woman at work, etc.

 

Maybe very many men...but not all men.

 

Same could be said about women....many women would cheat if the perfect opportunity would arise...but not all.

 

Men aren't born evil or unfaithful. Combine a healthy sex drive with an inhibition relaxing setting and a willing partner, however, one has the perfect affair recipe: the so-called cakeman.

 

Don't leave out the cakewomen here.

 

Do all men cheat? Of course not. Would most cheat under the influence of the right combo of affair catalysts?

 

You bet.

 

Same with women.

[bish]

Bish, I am speaking for myself or haven't you noticed? Who are you speaking for, might I know?

 

I guess you didn't read your own words...you said:

 

"We are all, given the right circumstances, capable of having an affair"

 

Now who is this "all" in that sentence if you were only speaking for yourself?

[PandorasBox]

Anyone who says that most men would cheat are just bitter towards men. Its probably due to the fact that they were screwed over by a guy in the past. They are probably just saying it because they are mad.

 

 

Probably so. I have been cheated on before by my ex husband. It hurt like hell, it made me angry etc. I probably went through alot of the same emotions most people go through when they have been betrayed. However, in my case (and I'm only speaking about myself and my situation) for me, even though I was mad and hurt at my husband, thats about as far as it went. In other words, I didn't develop a bitter, cold hearted attitude that ALL men cheat, and that ALL men would, or even MOST for that matter. I knew in my heart and mind it was my husband that had cheated not every man walking around. I guess my anger stopped with him, it never really spilled over into me thinking ALL or MOST men cheat/or/would cheat etc. I'm not even sure to tell you the truth WHY I didn't go beyond thinking the way I did. I'm just glad I didn't.

[bish]

Funny how you're sick of hearing how easy it is to not cheat. I wonder why this offends you so much?

 

Maybe its because he/she doesn't like the fact that there actually are people out there that aren't shallow, selfish, or weak.

[bish]

Anyone who says that most men would cheat are just bitter towards men. Its probably due to the fact that they were screwed over by a guy in the past. They are probably just saying it because they are mad.

 

Yes some men do cheat but it is going overboard to say most or even 99%..

 

Oh my favorite one, and I think we all know who said this, is when this person said 99% of men cheat...then when asked show us proof of this "fact".....you then hear crickets chirping.

[a4a]

Anyone who says that most men would cheat are just bitter towards men. Its probably due to the fact that they were screwed over by a guy in the past. They are probably just saying it because they are mad.

 

 

 

No I am not bitter at men because I was cheated on as a teen..... and not an important relationship to me. No biggie.... teeny bopper crap.

 

I see so many "good guys" that I thought were upstanding husbands cheat.

That goes for women I would never suspect either.

 

I just think it is foolish to think it could never happen to you.

 

And that goes for men, women, lesbians, straight, gay, or greenies.

[LoveLace]

I've known men that would say "all women cheat" or "all women suck" because someone hurt them. Such a broad assumption about such a broad group of people, it usually comes from personal experience and nothing more. It's like people that go to a restaurant and get a bad waitress so they never go back to the restaurant, not even in another state....one bad experience doesn't mean that every Applebees' has bad waitresses. In true reality we don't really know who's capable of cheating or of being faithful because it all depends on a person's morals and/or past experiences.

[PandorasBox]

No I am not bitter at men because I was cheated on as a teen..... and not an important relationship to me. No biggie.... teeny bopper crap.

 

I see so many "good guys" that I thought were upstanding husbands cheat.

That goes for women I would never suspect either.

 

I just think it is foolish to think it could never happen to you.

 

And that goes for men, women, lesbians, straight, gay, or greenies.

 

Thats good you're not bitter at men. I'm not either. I think that quote that had my name on it was Rid's BTW.

[a4a]

Thats good you're not bitter at men. I'm not either. I think that quote that had my name on it was Rid's BTW.

 

Sorry...... I did catch that too late.

 

shouldn't be playin' with Ted and typing at the same time.

 

and honestly you don't know if your spouse has, will, could, would, wants to cheat on you..... and there is no sense worrying about it.

 

If they do .... then they did.

[Pyro]

Probably so. I have been cheated on before by my ex husband. It hurt like hell, it made me angry etc. I probably went through alot of the same emotions most people go through when they have been betrayed. However, in my case (and I'm only speaking about myself and my situation) for me, even though I was mad and hurt at my husband, thats about as far as it went. In other words, I didn't develop a bitter, cold hearted attitude that ALL men cheat, and that ALL men would, or even MOST for that matter. I knew in my heart and mind it was my husband that had cheated not every man walking around. I guess my anger stopped with him, it never really spilled over into me thinking ALL or MOST men cheat/or/would cheat etc. I'm not even sure to tell you the truth WHY I didn't go beyond thinking the way I did. I'm just glad I didn't.

 

You are one of the fortunate ones who came to their senses at an early stage before the anger and hurt became more long-term. Good for you.

 

Oh my favorite one, and I think we all know who said this, is when this person said 99% of men cheat...then when asked show us proof of this "fact".....you then hear crickets chirping.

 

Like I said, I believe that anyone who believes that type of stuff has been hurt before. I only wish that they would get over the bitterness and come back to rational thinking.

[Pyro]

and honestly you don't know if your spouse has, will, could, would, wants to cheat on you..... and there is no sense worrying about it.

 

If they do .... then they did.

 

Anyone has the PHYSICAL capability to cheat. It is not worth it to sit there and worry about it. If they are going to cheat then you really can't stop them.

[EnigmasMuse]

I just think it is foolish to think it could never happen to you.

 

 

Very very true.

 

I once had a counselor tell me, it bothered him for some people to feel things would not happen to them and that even they themselves were free of doing anything as well. He said, we are ALL capable of doing things, we wouldn't think we would do, but that you never truly know what someone would or wouldn't do, until faced with a certain situation.

 

For example, I could say, I would NEVER cheat. And I do beleive that in my heart, BUT its really not logical of me to say, because truly, I don't know for sure if I would or not. Maybe it would be better for me to word it as this; I would HOPE I would never cheat.

[sb129]

Life is full of decisions. The decision to live your life in a healthy manner with healthy relationships is a choice. If you want to live a life full of healthy relationships, you work towards that.

 

I live my life as such. Am I happy or unhappy. If I'm unhappy, what's making me unhappy? Once I've figured out what's making me unhappy, I decide if it can be fixed on my side. If it's a relationship and the issue lies with another person, we discuss it. If we can't either come to a compromise or a bending by one party or another and the issue is that important to me, I walk away.

 

All the understanding and justifications won't change these simple rules of engagement for healthy relationships.

 

Great post.

 

I think the following hits the nail on the head

 

I think it's in both parties interests to keep their eyes open about this. If a partner of mine were about involved in a situation that engendered greater risk of cheating then I'd want to be able to have some sort of discussion that would minimise the cheating risk, without being labelled insecure, paranoid or mistrustful.

 

a4a- WHO is Ted? WHat is that pic in your avatar???