Topic on morals, cheating, and most men

[mental_traveller]

Years ago I chatted with this woman who was trying to save her marriage after she cheated. I felt bad for her though.

 

What happened was she was walking home from a block party and was drinking. She cut through some lawns and ran into a guy that was by the pool. Some flirting went on and minutes later she done the deed.

Either she told the husband or he found out, and it was nightmare for her ever since.

 

It was literally minutes later because I asked if it was worth it and she said no. It was outside, and over really quick, etc.

 

Thats a shame because if I was going to cheat its going to be a freak'n event, and not just with some stranger.

 

But my point is, here is a woman with a momentary lapse of reason that got no enjoyment out of it thats burdening (or burdened her life).

And its the only time she was unfaithful.

 

I feel bad for her.

 

Momentary lapse of reason? How exactly does a married person "lapse" into having sex with a stranger she met by a pool?

 

Sorry but this is ridiculous. She should not even have been flirting with the guy, let alone dropping her drawers for him. And didn't she once have thoughts going through her mind saying "excuse me, you're married - do you really think this is a good idea?". There was no lapse, she just felt like indulging herself, and then paid the price. I don't feel bad for her at all.

[Pyro]

I will always say that most men cheat... and most, if NOT ALL, will given the opportunity.

 

And... no, I've never been cheated on...(not that I know anyway).. I left my partners, they didn't leave me... and I still do... when I'm tired of them... I just don't see them anymore... simple.

 

That's why I don't believe in marriage and monogamy...

 

I still don't understand why you have so little faith in the majority of the male population. In YOUR experience I suppose that most men have cheated but your experiences are completely different from everyone elses.

[bish]

I hear a lot of 'I would NEVER cheat'... 'I never did, never will', blablabla...

 

it's easy to say when someone is not even married yet, or has never been in a relationship or a live-in rel. for more than 5 years...

 

Well i have been married and for more than five years and I will say never have, never will........deal with it.

[Pyro]

Well i have been married and for more than five years and I will say never have, never will........deal with it.

 

She doesn't like hearing that because she doesn't have a chance to make you the next MM in her life.

[lindya]

I guess the 'intelligence' talk come from Freud's theory? all motivation of human base on SEX? Freud's theory is flawed

 

I wonder if the popular view of Freud being sex obsessed says more about the human tendency to focus on the juicier bits of his writing. People in general being obsessed by sex - and projecting it all on to old Freud, just because he wasn't squeamish about the subject in an era when most of society was still recovering from the excitement of finally seeing uncovered piano legs.

 

Many people who have sought therapy have found that it helped them in ways that religion didn't. Jesus exhorts people to remove the plank from their own eyes before inspecting the speck in a neighbour's eye. Psychoanalysis, on the other hand, isn't content with simply saying "do/don't." It accepts that people sometimes need help in understanding their own negative behaviour - and once they understand why they behave in ways that are destructive/unkind (whether to themselves or to other people), they might be better placed to start making changes.

 

It feels great to deliver simplistic moralistic "should/ought/must/zero tolerance" messages. I know. I've tried it, and there's a definite righteous, venting pleasure to be had from the process. It's fun to bond with others who are also in the mood to do a bit of straight-talking moralising. Done with tongue firmly in cheek, it can also be a blast....but it's naive to think that berating someone with shoulds and oughts is ever going to help them to achieve much positive change. Or assist them in giving more of a damn about other people and what they think/feel.

 

Even those who practice your religion and use it to assist others tend to borrow methods and techniques from psychonanalytic counselling theory. The two (religion and human behavioural theory) aren't necessarily incompatible. Why do you have this view that there's something sinful about intellectual curiosity and exploration?

[lonelybird]

Why do you have this view that there's something sinful about intellectual curiosity and exploration?

I don't think it is sinful about intellectual curiosity and exploration. where did you get that!?

 

I meant Theory is NOT perfect, and people buy theory like it is perfect, and use flawed theory guide them

 

oh, also don't know where the 'zero tolerance' come from

 

I said that God made universe, God gave us laws, if we disobey his laws, we suffer bad consequence following. This isn't about ME doesn't tolerant, it is about THEM, and THEIR LIFE. some kind warning isn't non-tolerant, but death punishment is:rolleyes:

[lindya]

I don't think it is sinful about intellectual curiosity and exploration. where did you get that!?

 

I recall you suggesting in a previous thread that people usurp what you see as God's role in using intellectual theory (rather than religion) in an effort to provide guidance in certain difficult situations. The impression I had was that you viewed it as arrogant to the point of sinfulness for people to rely on their own thought processes/insight rather than looking to religion for guidance.

 

I meant Theory is NOT perfect, and people buy theory like it is perfect, and use flawed theory guide them

 

I'm not sure it's the intention of most theorists to promote themselves as having all the answers. I accept that people will sometimes become so enthusiastic about a particular theory that for a while they regard it as infallible.

 

oh, also don't know where the 'zero tolerance' come from

 

That's not directed at you. That's me saying that I can understand why people often find it comforting to adopt a zero tolerance approach - and I do it myself at times I feel like venting. The moralistic approach often does contain elements of "zero tolerance".

 

I said that God made universe, God gave us laws, if we disobey his laws, we suffer bad consequence following. This isn't about ME doesn't tolerant, it is about THEM, and THEIR LIFE. some kind warning isn't non-tolerant, but death punishment is:rolleyes:

 

You're banking on people sharing your belief in Creationism. Many people don't, but some of them may well be as kind, helpful and empathic as their religious friends. Or even more so, depending on the temperament of the individuals being compared. Religious affiliation, or lack thereof, isn't always a reliable character indicator.

[lonelybird]

I recall you suggesting in a previous thread that people usurp what you see as God's role in using intellectual theory (rather than religion) in an effort to provide guidance in certain difficult situations. The impression I had was that you viewed it as arrogant to the point of sinfulness for people to rely on their own thought processes/insight rather than looking to religion for guidance.

I quote some from Bible if it is your mentioned. When people rely on their intelligence and their own ability, and when they succeed, they tend to be pride; when they fail, they somehow difficultly brush the failure feeling away. they rely on their intelligence like support a building on a thin stick. their intelligence is like a thin stick. AND many folks who think they are intelligent are very pride people, they don't humble themselves before God, they are like a bottle full of water and cannot be filled more, humble people are like empty bottle, so God can teach them things, can fill them more true knowledge.

 

People think they are intelligent, but in fact they aren't, they rely on their own thought when they wear different glasses to see the world according to their own experiences, so their view about things are partial, but they think they are very right because they think they are 'intelligent' folks, read some books than others, they don't humble themselves before God, so they cannot get true wisdom from God

 

Religious affiliation, or lack thereof, isn't always a reliable character indicator

Yes, it is:), if I know a person who is filled with Holy Spirit I definitely trust him/her. I can totally trust a person who love God and obey God. In fact even on here LS I can feel their spirit that same spirit come from God, it is about deep connection, connect in spirit of God, it is good feeling

[lindya]

I quote some from Bible if it is your mentioned. When people rely on their intelligence and their own ability, and when they succeed, they tend to be pride; when they fail, they somehow difficultly brush the failure feeling away. they rely on their intelligence like support a building on a thin stick. their intelligence is like a thin stick. AND many folks who think they are intelligent are very pride people, they don't humble themselves before God, they are like a bottle full of water and cannot be filled more, humble people are like empty bottle, so God can teach them things, can fill them more true knowledge.

 

People think they are intelligent, but in fact they aren't, they rely on their own thought when they wear different glasses to see the world according to their own experiences, so their view about things are partial, but they think they are very right because they think they are 'intelligent' folks, read some books than others, they don't humble themselves before God, so they cannot get true wisdom from God

 

Yes, it is:), if I know a person who is filled with Holy Spirit I definitely trust him/her. I can totally trust a person who love God and obey God. In fact even on here LS I can feel their spirit that same spirit come from God, it is about deep connection, connect in spirit of God, it is good feeling

 

Each to their own book or books, I suppose.

[luvmy2ns]

But is cheating really a morality issue? Is it morals that keep you from lying and stealing, or is it just plain decency? Is integrity also something we should not expect from ourselves? Some things are just wrong. Going into a relationship with someone indicates a willingness to adhere to the expected bounds of such unless you very openly tell them at the onset, "Listen. I don't reeaallllllly believe in monogomy, so I just might cheat on you." All these people on here talking about how morality is the root of all this are just grasping at reasons to make it okay or understandable whey they f around behind their partner's back or to excuse the behavior in some way. What it really boils down to is just treating your partner decently. Treating them how you would want to be treated. Do you really want your partner screwing other people? Well, you'd better let them in on the fact that they're in an "open relationship" with you. It's not your morals; it's your integrity to stand behind your relationship - one you agreed to enter into with someone with the knowledge and understanding that your partner expects you to NOT cheat on them.

[a4a]

Each to their own book or books, I suppose.

 

I am about ready to start quoting from "Green Eggs and Ham"

 

 

If one thinks having affairs are ok and natural then they are not ditching their own integrity.... or morals.

 

You believe what you believe. Likely best bet is to be sure you choose a partner with the same beliefs.

 

Unfortunatley I think society has put such a taboo on affairs that people are pressured to lie about their true intentions.

 

Thus Lizzies open attitude is refreshing to me.

 

At least she states what she believes and doesn't lie about her intentions.

 

And I could say to Lizzie if she were my friend or neighbor... if I ever catch you pulling that crap with my H - I will make your life very unpleasant.

 

Up front and to the point....... and sticks to it.

[Lizzie60]

I am about ready to start quoting from "Green Eggs and Ham"

 

 

If one thinks having affairs are ok and natural then they are not ditching their own integrity.... or morals.

 

You believe what you believe. Likely best bet is to be sure you choose a partner with the same beliefs.

 

Unfortunatley I think society has put such a taboo on affairs that people are pressured to lie about their true intentions.

 

Thus Lizzies open attitude is refreshing to me.

 

At least she states what she believes and doesn't lie about her intentions.

 

And I could say to Lizzie if she were my friend or neighbor... if I ever catch you pulling that crap with my H - I will make your life very unpleasant.

 

Up front and to the point....... and sticks to it.

 

I know if you were my friend or my neighbour, I would adore you... I like people like you... non judgemental but yet tell what's on their mind...

 

I would never ever betray a friend... friends, to me, are waayyy more important than any lovers...

[PandorasBox]

non judgemental but yet tell what's on their mind...

 

 

How can ya tell the difference? I have seen many people state an opinon and others take it as being judgemental. I guess its all in how one types it, or perhaps preceives it.

[SoHotZanzibar]

Momentary lapse of reason? How exactly does a married person "lapse" into having sex with a stranger she met by a pool?

 

Sorry but this is ridiculous. She should not even have been flirting with the guy, let alone dropping her drawers for him. And didn't she once have thoughts going through her mind saying "excuse me, you're married - do you really think this is a good idea?". There was no lapse, she just felt like indulging herself, and then paid the price. I don't feel bad for her at all.

 

Absolutley! Why would he even continue talking to a person like that?

Feels bad for her! Chump.

[a4a]

I know if you were my friend or my neighbour, I would adore you... I like people like you... non judgemental but yet tell what's on their mind...

 

I would never ever betray a friend... friends, to me, are waayyy more important than any lovers...

 

Yeah but if you did betray me I would cut your tits off! :lmao:

 

Hell I have had female friends ask if they could squeeze my h's butt....

 

I say sure...... just tell him I said it was ok and if he is ok with it... go for it.

 

But next time you will have to write me a check.

[luvmy2ns]

Okay, but L60 warns you she might try to steal your husband for monetary gain.

 

What I was talking about was entering into a relationship and NOT being up front with your partner. THAT is a lack of integrity to fradulently enter into a relationship where the monogomy is unknowingly one-sided and NOT warning your partner that that's the way it's gonna be. It's sneaky and a lousy way to treat the person who is supposed to be the most important to you.

[Lizzie60]

Okay, but L60 warns you she might try to steal your husband for monetary gain.

 

What I was talking about was entering into a relationship and NOT being up front with your partner. THAT is a lack of integrity to fradulently enter into a relationship where the monogomy is unknowingly one-sided and NOT warning your partner that that's the way it's gonna be. It's sneaky and a lousy way to treat the person who is supposed to be the most important to you.

 

Where did I say that? Could you copy-paste please?

[bish]

She doesn't like hearing that because she doesn't have a chance to make you the next MM in her life.

 

Well I'm not married and never will be again.

 

And I don't cheat and will never date a MW. And if I find out she is married and she lied to me...she is history.

[a4a]

Okay, but L60 warns you she might try to steal your husband for monetary gain.

 

What I was talking about was entering into a relationship and NOT being up front with your partner. THAT is a lack of integrity to fradulently enter into a relationship where the monogomy is unknowingly one-sided and NOT warning your partner that that's the way it's gonna be. It's sneaky and a lousy way to treat the person who is supposed to be the most important to you.

 

He has no money....... I do though.......

 

Maybe she will try to steal me from him? :lmao:

 

I agree with your above statement.... but Lizzie who seems to be a favorite target is not committed to a partner..... nor does she make false promises to be exclusive.

 

Like I said before - maybe the pressure to be a "good boy or girl" makes people not state their true intentions in a relationship.

[JackJack]

Thus Lizzies open attitude is refreshing to me.

 

At least she states what she believes and doesn't lie about her intentions.

 

 

Wonderful! I'm all for honesty. Always gave me warm feelings to be honest and know I was honest in admitting to what I do, or why I do it. I know I wouldn't ever get a nobel prize for my honsesty, but the warm fuzzy feeling of being honest would be enough.

 

Its good someone can be honest and not lie and openly admit to a bunch of people on a forum that sleeping with MM is their bag. Honesty in admitting it, but I see no honesty in sleeping with MM.

 

So the pay off for being upfront and telling people about it is what?

 

I'm not talking about her being upfront telling the men she is with about it, they probably don't really care about her honesty. JMO.

[luvmy2ns]

Well I'm not married and never will be again.

 

And I don't cheat and will never date a MW. And if I find out she is married and she lied to me...she is history.

 

It's a good thing to have some convictions and stick to 'em, regardless of what others might want you to believe.

[marlena]

I do not believe in vows (marriage or otherwise)! There are no guarantees in life and what we feel today may well be usurped tomorrow. Everything is in flux - life, people, the entire universe - and to believe the opposite is foolish and naive. As for morals, like Herzen said, some people with their inflexible adherence to a standard set of morals that society has inflicted on the human race give morality a bad name. Who are we to cast the first stone? The so called cheating lies in the subterfuge that almost invariably accompanies the cheating and not the act itself. We owe it to ourselves and to our fellow human beings to strive for integrity .. and integrity, from where I stand, is honesty. Affairs begin for any number of reasons just like any other relationship. The real challenge is deciding what to do about ending the deceit and taking an honest stand. Yes, it causes a lot of pain in most cases but then again pain is a component of life in all its manifestations.

[luvmy2ns]

I do not believe in vows (marriage or otherwise)!

 

Because you already know this about yourself, are you upfront about that with anyone with which you become involved in a romantic relationship from the beginning?

[marlena]

Hi luvmy2ns

 

Yes, I am. Too old for promises of never - ending love and devotion. I enter every relationship hoping for the best but knowing that the outcome may be different. The only thing I promise is honesty...and expect it in turn. If someone's feelings for me have changed over time, I would want to know. I would want to talk about it. Staying in a relationship or marriage based on how things once were is not something I would want. I'd never want to be with someone if he wanted to leave. I would expect him to do the decent thing and leave. As would I. Coercing someone to stay, whether through histrionics, pleadin, threats or laying guilt on the other person is not something I would do or want. I need to know that the other person is with me because he still wants to be and not because of some silly vows we exchanged in the past. Two people should either grow together or grow apart.

 

Of course I no longer possess the idealism of youth though I still do believe that it is possible for two people to love one another til death do they part. It, of course, requires a great deal of maturity to make something as fragile as love to last a lifetime.

Hope I answered your question, luv.

[luvmy2ns]

Honesty is the thing most cheaters lack. If you're honest about your stance on relationships from the beginning, then your partner is going into it with both eyes open. THAT is integrity. The misrepresentation, sneaking, and cheating? Not so much.

 

Good for you, Marlena, for being open and honest. That's all a person can ask for.