Is it only jealousy

[johnnye]

**I'm reposting this because after 48h my original post didn't show up**

 

I would really appreciate some non-judgmental, unbiased and impartial opinions, from preferably someone who has gone through this or has any sort of psychological knowledge background.

 

I am a married man, whose marriage happened when we were very young and knew nothing about life or love. Well, it is done for about a year and it’s still only legally maintained because of practical reasons. I don’t believe it will be very long, though, until those practical issues are sorted out and we’ll follow different paths. During this time, there has been no physical contact, and conversations have been kept to the essential, most of time in a non cordial way; we have not been sharing the same bedroom.

 

Some eight months ago I met someone from my workplace who I felt immediately connected. We became friends, we have talked a lot about each other’s lives, and we really enjoyed being together... until that one day, about six months ago, it simply happened, naturally, as it was supposed to be. We were not seeking it, we were not pursuing it, we were not even in need of it, but it happened. I fell in love with her, and since the very start, I knew that she’s the one I want to grow old with, I have very serious intentions about her. It’s important to add that I am not splitting because of her, that was an earlier decision, but I have to admit that it’s a sweet thought to imagine her by my side when that happens.

 

I am having some insecurity issues though, which I would like to share with you all and I would love to hear what you have to say about it. The problem is, she had been in a relationship with a man, on an off, for about three years and had finished it with him last time about three months before we started our relationship. I have a very different profile from him, I am just one and a half year older than her while he is sixteen years older; he is someone with a high socio-economical lifestyle/profile whereas I am an ordinary man; I am totally sincere to her and I do want her in my life in a long term relationship and he was into a non-commitment only relationship. If anyone here has read Steve Martin novel “Shopgirl” or watched his movie, that’s the guy. A “professional” emotionally unattached player. It’s important to note that although he didn’t live with his wife by the time they were together, he is still legally married. I know she doesn’t want anything ever again with him, that she’s done with him, because she told me so, but…

 

a) Out of politeness, according to her, she doesn’t want to cut, shut down, permanently contact with him. She said that because of that, she wouldn’t leave any e-mail unanswered and she has even sent him a “happy birthday” e-mail (as a matter of fact, the only one she has sent) after they broke up… he has called her twice and has sent two or three other e-mails which she replied. One of the e-mails was a question about business; the other was a commiserations e-mail. In one of the calls, he mentioned he wanted to keep the thing going his way, but she said it would not happen and that they were doing the best by keeping some distance; the other call he didn’t reach her. In all contacts she was polite, but not affectionate. But if she really wants to get over him, wouldn’t one expect her to apply a comprehensive no contact policy? I feel that the way things are going, he will continue with those “maintenance contacts” for an unforeseen future, which really makes me feel not so great.

 

b) She doesn’t want to get rid of things that remind her about him like pictures, gifts, e-mails, etc. She says that that doesn’t mean a thing to her, that’s why she doesn’t feel the need of doing that, although she knows I am not happy about it… but then, if it’s not important, why the resistance?

 

c) I love her. She likes to be with me, likes to talk to me, considers me as potential long term partner, but she is not at the same emotional level as me. She says that this may be because of my circumstance, some sort of self-defence behaviour, and, once I am fully available, love may appear… but isn’t true love like a binary code (0 or 1), black or white, day or night, it is or it isn’t? When the subject is true love, is it really possible choosing who and when to love?

 

Inputs and insight will truly be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[sb129]

Well done on an articulate and sensitive first post!

If only some of the other first posts were as easy to read.

 

 

Are you and your wife still living together?

 

Your gf sounds like a nice woman, but if there are things that bother you this much, you need to talk about them and reach some kind of compromise.

 

YOU are the man in her life now, not her ex. She needs to respect that.

 

However, if your W isn't completely out of the picture, then I can understand your GFs reluctance to completely eliminate her ex from her life...

[Cobra_X30]

It sounds like she isnt completely over him!! However, Im not 100% qualified to say that... perhaps if you moved your story to the OW/OM section of this board you will get MUCH more informative information!

 

Also I would clarify a little more about her relationship with this guy... where she met him... what he does.... ect.

[johnnye]

Well done on an articulate and sensitive first post!

If only some of the other first posts were as easy to read.

 

 

Are you and your wife still living together?

 

Your gf sounds like a nice woman, but if there are things that bother you this much, you need to talk about them and reach some kind of compromise.

 

YOU are the man in her life now, not her ex. She needs to respect that.

 

However, if your W isn't completely out of the picture, then I can understand your GFs reluctance to completely eliminate her ex from her life...

 

Well, thank you. Very nice of yours such comments, and thank you for your reply. Yes, me and my wife are still living together and it makes sense that gf is not willing to fully be emotionally attached to me; but the doubts are as if that man, who in my point of view still is interfering in the present, may be cause of concerns as to the way she may feel towards me as well. I am also concerned that whatever he may have, in whatever aspect, that has attracted her, I will not have, as we are hugely different persons.

[norajane]

So you're still married, and so is the other guy. She's had experience in being with a married man, and she knows they're a bad risk, although they might be engaging in one way or another.

 

I think that yes, with you being married, she's not going to feel a sense of obligation to you that she might with someone who was single and actually could offer her a future...you can't yet, so you don't have much weight in terms of what she does or doesn't do with her ex.

 

You say your marriage is over, but you still live with your wife. As long as that is the case, your gf may very well wonder if you might change your mind about your marriage and decide to stay married. She's not betting on you being there, so she's not going to change what she would normally do with the other guy just because of you.

[johnnye]

So you're still married, and so is the other guy. She's had experience in being with a married man, and she knows they're a bad risk, although they might be engaging in one way or another.

 

I think that yes, with you being married, she's not going to feel a sense of obligation to you that she might with someone who was single and actually could offer her a future...you can't yet, so you don't have much weight in terms of what she does or doesn't do with her ex.

 

You say your marriage is over, but you still live with your wife. As long as that is the case, your gf may very well wonder if you might change your mind about your marriage and decide to stay married. She's not betting on you being there, so she's not going to change what she would normally do with the other guy just because of you.

 

Norajane,

 

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I think you are right. Actually I hope you are. In a sense, it makes me feel more confident if it (her emotional attachment towards me) depends only on me, because I do know what I want and what I want is her.

In a very rational way, if that is the case, I really believe that she is right acting that way, because as you mention, the odds are against her, I have even told her already that I do understand. My insecurities are based on the fact that I and her “x” are very different persons, not only character-wise; I think it's a significant part the age gap... would she need an older, more fatherly man? I'm an all around ordinary guy and he is "buff", even with his late 50's... Does appearance play an important role? Those are examples of things that I can't do anything about regardless of my situation.

 

Regarding my "a, b, c" questions, she believes that she can learn to like me more in time, but the other points, it doesn't seem, at least right now, that she has any intention of acting upon them even when I become "single". The guy caused her so much emotional distress in the past, that she would even develop psychosomatic illnesses. Now she says he can't harm her anymore (although she is still to confront him - he lives in a nearby country) and she has no reason for getting rid of his stuff or cutting contact with him for good (hmmm… wouldn’t it be that upsetting me be a good reason?). She says she doesn't want to be uncivilized towards him, even after all the terrible emotional damages he did to her, and even bad-mouthing her in her back (which she is aware). I guess I just wanted to know for sure (what as I read this suddenly looks like a utopia), if I will be able to completely fulfill all her needs.

[johnnye]

It sounds like she isnt completely over him!! However, Im not 100% qualified to say that... perhaps if you moved your story to the OW/OM section of this board you will get MUCH more informative information!

 

Also I would clarify a little more about her relationship with this guy... where she met him... what he does.... ect.

 

Cobra_X30,

 

I think it's not, for me, mainly an OW/OM issue. I am just trying to figure out if my concerns are just unfounded jeaolusy or not. I am getting emotionally involved with her by the day and it's a scary thought to think about falling from high heights ahead.

[VIP]

I think your concerns are valid, she might still have feelings for her ex. Never mind, that he was abusive, women like bad guys more than good guys. And he is definitely more mature and experienced in her eyes than you. She can see that there is no future with him, and you are coming across as a stable good guy, a convenient person to have a relationship with.

 

If she doesn't have feelings for you now, it's unlikely that this will happen in the future. How can you think about spending the rest of your life with her, if she doesn't love you?

[johnnye]

I think your concerns are valid, she might still have feelings for her ex. Never mind, that he was abusive, women like bad guys more than good guys. And he is definitely more mature and experienced in her eyes than you. She can see that there is no future with him, and you are coming across as a stable good guy, a convenient person to have a relationship with.

 

If she doesn't have feelings for you now, it's unlikely that this will happen in the future. How can you think about spending the rest of your life with her, if she doesn't love you?

 

VIP,

 

Thank you for your post. Those are indeed the thoughts that have been eating me inside, but at the same time, you know... sometimes "The Higher The Risk, The Greater The Reward"... if one always wants to stay on the safer side, one may never reach the really "rare to be found" true happiness. I believe it’s worth the risk, I am up for it anyway.

[VIP]

I just think it's not wise to invest more than your partner in a relationship. It would be better to take it slow.

[johnnye]

I heartfelt agree. However, I somehow (want to) believe it’s this way because of my current situation and once I become a fully available person there will be a balance. I think it just makes sense. Of course, I know there’s an important risk of me being wrong and then I get scared with the thought of a not so good outcome, hence the insecurity… but well, I am working on that.

 

Funny to mention that good guy (nice person) x bad guy (player/pro player) thing… I use to bounce back and forth towards that theory. I wonder how much truth there’s in that. I’ve indeed seen it happening a lot, but is it a rule, or maybe just some exceptions?

[bish]

**I'm reposting this because after 48h my original post didn't show up**

 

I would really appreciate some non-judgmental, unbiased and impartial opinions

 

Translation...you want people to tell you what you want to hear.

[johnnye]

Translation...you want people to tell you what you want to hear.

 

No, I want to hear non-judgmental, unbiased and impartial opinions.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

No, I want to hear non-judgmental, unbiased and impartial opinions.

 

Okay, I maybe cant do the non-judgemental side, but I could maybe offer a perspective that in turn may help you to figure out the situation?

 

This woman (normally referred to as Other Woman or OW as you are married and still living with your wife) has a right to hold herself back from you when you are in a relationship with another. I am an OW and I understand her self-preservation on this matter. Would you trust her if she told you she loved you and you should leave your wife because your relationship will definitely work out? No? I wouldn't either. She sounds as though she is being very honest with you.

 

The ex-boyfriend - we all have them, and there's usually a good reason why they are an ex. I think your insecurities stem from the fact you cannot offer her a full 100% emotional relationship yet. If you were with her full time, do you think these insecurities would lessen? One red flag though, if her ex had such a negative affect on her to the point of exepriencing psycho-psomatic illnesses, I dont know why she would want to keep him in her life. With his age is he a father figure for her? You mentioned they had some business communications, do they have shared interests in business?

 

Lastly, if you are married and you are in love with someone else and basically living in a room-mate situation with your wife, why are you still there? Regardless of whether you have another relationship? Is OW providing you with a safety net before you leave your Marriage? If so, do you think OW may be picking up on that? Does your W know you have checked out of the relationship? You mentioned you dont think it will be long? Why is it so uncertain?

[VirtualInsanity]

This woman (normally referred to as Other Woman or OW as you are married and still living with your wife) has a right to hold herself back from you when you are in a relationship with another.

 

Yes I agree. Different story when in a exclusive relationship.

 

Johnnye I think you should get our of your 1st relationship before you concern yourself with someone else. Are you currently in the divorce process?

[Sheba]

Johnny

 

I wonder why you would expect your GF/OW to give up her mementos when you will not give up your marriage "for practical reasons"?

 

I think it is possible the GF is keeping the photos, etc... because she resents your request to discard them as it seems controlling. Or, she may resent that you want her to give up even the detritus of her past relationship while you are still in your matrimonial home living with your wife.

 

I wonder if you are reluctant to leave your wife because you have no guarantee of commitment from the GF. I feel one remark you made is rather telling in this regard: once I become a fully available person there will be a balance. I think it just makes sense. Of course, I know there’s an important risk of me being wrong and then I get scared with the thought of a not so good outcome, hence the insecurity… but well, I am working on that. To me, it seems that the "not so good outcome" you refer to would be leaving your marriage and then learning your GF is not going to ride off into the sunset with you. Am I right?

 

If I am right, well, you might as well stay in limbo forever. First of all, there is good reason to think that your wise GF is holding her emotions in check because she is dealing with a man who is married and still living with his wife (forget about the "practical reasons" - that is no excuse). Secondly, there are no guarantees in love. Even if your GF loved/s you now, who is to say she will in a year? Who is to say you will love her in a year?

 

If you are serious about trying to see if your new relationship will work, GIVE UP YOUR MARRIAGE. Move out. Now. I know it is not "easy", however your commitments must be wholehearted, especially if you wish a wholehearted commitment in return.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Johnny

 

I wonder why you would expect your GF/OW to give up her mementos when you will not give up your marriage "for practical reasons"?

 

I think it is possible the GF is keeping the photos, etc... because she resents your request to discard them as it seems controlling. Or, she may resent that you want her to give up even the detritus of her past relationship while you are still in your matrimonial home living with your wife.

 

I wonder if you are reluctant to leave your wife because you have no guarantee of commitment from the GF. I feel one remark you made is rather telling in this regard: once I become a fully available person there will be a balance. I think it just makes sense. Of course, I know there’s an important risk of me being wrong and then I get scared with the thought of a not so good outcome, hence the insecurity… but well, I am working on that. To me, it seems that the "not so good outcome" you refer to would be leaving your marriage and then learning your GF is not going to ride off into the sunset with you. Am I right?

 

If I am right, well, you might as well stay in limbo forever. First of all, there is good reason to think that your wise GF is holding her emotions in check because she is dealing with a man who is married and still living with his wife (forget about the "practical reasons" - that is no excuse). Secondly, there are no guarantees in love. Even if your GF loved/s you now, who is to say she will in a year? Who is to say you will love her in a year?

 

If you are serious about trying to see if your new relationship will work, GIVE UP YOUR MARRIAGE. Move out. Now. I know it is not "easy", however your commitments must be wholehearted, especially if you wish a wholehearted commitment in return.

 

This is right on the money Sheba, great post

[johnnye]

Okay, I maybe cant do the non-judgemental side, but I could maybe offer a perspective that in turn may help you to figure out the situation?

 

This woman (normally referred to as Other Woman or OW as you are married and still living with your wife) has a right to hold herself back from you when you are in a relationship with another. I am an OW and I understand her self-preservation on this matter. Would you trust her if she told you she loved you and you should leave your wife because your relationship will definitely work out? No? I wouldn't either. She sounds as though she is being very honest with you.

 

The ex-boyfriend - we all have them, and there's usually a good reason why they are an ex. I think your insecurities stem from the fact you cannot offer her a full 100% emotional relationship yet. If you were with her full time, do you think these insecurities would lessen? One red flag though, if her ex had such a negative affect on her to the point of exepriencing psycho-psomatic illnesses, I dont know why she would want to keep him in her life. With his age is he a father figure for her? You mentioned they had some business communications, do they have shared interests in business?

 

Lastly, if you are married and you are in love with someone else and basically living in a room-mate situation with your wife, why are you still there? Regardless of whether you have another relationship? Is OW providing you with a safety net before you leave your Marriage? If so, do you think OW may be picking up on that? Does your W know you have checked out of the relationship? You mentioned you dont think it will be long? Why is it so uncertain?

 

Hello JNRR,

 

I believe your post is pretty much non-judgemental. Thank you. It's a different perspective and that's important.

 

I don't argue the right gf has to hold herself back from me while I am still officially married. Actually, I think she's right protecting herself. Probably, if I was in her shoes, I'd do the same. She has been very honest to me, I trust her; but specifically towards her "relationship" with her "x", she can't even define how she feels about it right now. The point here is not that one though, I just wanted to know if I should hold myself back too, because I don't want to get hurt, I don't want to fall deeply in love with someone who, at a later time, may find out I was simply a rebound and that's that. I just wanted to know if I should be hopeful on this relationship or simply take it lightly.

 

I am afraid that if I was with her full time and she kept things the way they are now (and I do believe things won't change overnight, simply because I suddenly become a fully available single man) my insecurities wouldn't lessen. On the contrary, I think they would increase. So, in a very awkward sense, being still NOT available is what "forces" me put up with this somehow "unrequited" love.

 

Regarding your "red flag" point, I think like you. No matter how much she acknowledge the negative effects her "x player" had (and still has) on her, no matter all the things she knows about him that makes him a bad guy, no matter the terrible things she knows he did on her back against her... every time his name comes up, she tends to always defend his behavior and she talks about him in an almost tender way. I am not saying here that I would like her to hate him or to say bad things about him, but I'd expect her to not defend him. She has even come up with a theory that being the guy he did nothing more than his duty (being a player, a jerk) and it was her fault for what has happened to her, because she should know it better. I.e. she moved herself from the position of victim of a very experienced professional player (or prime time player) to the position of someone as guilt (if not guiltier than) as him for all her pain. That's absolute non-sense to me and I wonder if all the women thought that way, how happy would be those professional players on the wild. She also thinks it's nothing relevant the huge age gap; I know age shouldn't be an obstacle to true love, but come on... it's not natural to be with someone who has the age to be your father or your mother, I think it would be ok if the guy was not thaaat old and she was in early 20's, as there would still be many years of quality time together, but the guy's already in his late 50's... their communications exchanges were not only business related. The guy is obviously still trying to get some uncommitted sex with her, and he's in a very comfortable position to do that, because he lives in a neighbor country, which is distant enough for him not to be seen with her by his current affairs where he is now.

 

Basically I'm still living in a room-mate situation with wife, because of financial reasons: I cannot afford, right now, to maintain two households abroad. There are no family, friends, etc. available to help me with a shelter for while. GF is not providing me any safety net, we both know that. Yes, W knows I have checked out of the relationship and the reason she doesn't leave is because she also doesn't have anywhere to go now. I think it won't be long because I am working on raising some cash to help with getting somewhere else to live (either me or her).

[johnnye]

Yes I agree. Different story when in a exclusive relationship.

 

Johnnye I think you should get our of your 1st relationship before you concern yourself with someone else. Are you currently in the divorce process?

 

Hello VI,

 

Yes, I agree with you. Who doesn't? I did intend to do that, but how can one controls one's feelings when they become overwhelming? Anyone who is able to do that, throw the first stone.

[johnnye]

Johnny

 

I wonder why you would expect your GF/OW to give up her mementos when you will not give up your marriage "for practical reasons"?

 

I think it is possible the GF is keeping the photos, etc... because she resents your request to discard them as it seems controlling. Or, she may resent that you want her to give up even the detritus of her past relationship while you are still in your matrimonial home living with your wife.

 

I wonder if you are reluctant to leave your wife because you have no guarantee of commitment from the GF. I feel one remark you made is rather telling in this regard: once I become a fully available person there will be a balance. I think it just makes sense. Of course, I know there’s an important risk of me being wrong and then I get scared with the thought of a not so good outcome, hence the insecurity… but well, I am working on that. To me, it seems that the "not so good outcome" you refer to would be leaving your marriage and then learning your GF is not going to ride off into the sunset with you. Am I right?

 

If I am right, well, you might as well stay in limbo forever. First of all, there is good reason to think that your wise GF is holding her emotions in check because she is dealing with a man who is married and still living with his wife (forget about the "practical reasons" - that is no excuse). Secondly, there are no guarantees in love. Even if your GF loved/s you now, who is to say she will in a year? Who is to say you will love her in a year?

 

If you are serious about trying to see if your new relationship will work, GIVE UP YOUR MARRIAGE. Move out. Now. I know it is not "easy", however your commitments must be wholehearted, especially if you wish a wholehearted commitment in return.

 

Hello Sheba,

 

Thank you for your post.

 

Regardless of the “practical reasons” being considered as an excuse or not, it’s true that where there’s a will, there a way. Because of gf, I think I wouldn’t care to leave and stay anywhere, even in a very, very far away place infested with bugs and in a very dangerous neighborhood… but then, I would be doing that for HER, which is not the best thing to be done as that would put an enormous weight of responsibility on her shoulders. Also, that wouldn’t be ME, would she see me the same way if I acted like that? So, my own self-guideline is: do it at the pace I would without gf in the picture. Although I don’t think I am fully able to follow that plan, I do intend to do it.

 

She keeping the photos, not willing to cut contact, etc., doesn’t seem to be related to my status. It’s not related to it. I might be single and it would be the same.

 

I am not reluctant to leave home because of my insecurities towards gf, that’s been acted upon since well before her. I am not reluctant at all. I am afraid of losing control of my original intention of doing it on my own pace because of her and then, if I did that, I can’t foresee a good outcome to if she later decide I was a simple patch to help her to deal her scars caused by the ill-treatment she’s got from her x. So, since your theory doesn’t seem to be right, I don’t believe I will be in limbo forever. My plan is to do it at my own timing and then, be ready to face whatever outcome it may be.

[fetish]

once you leave your wife, your gf will probably dump you. that's normally how it works out.