Several problems I just can't solve....

[Zeromus]

I feel sort of stupid for posting about this, but I've basically run out of avenues to vent...

 

Long story short, I'm 24. I've never asked a girl out, never kissed a girl and quite obviously never had sex. I'm reaching a breaking point with dealing with this as the situation isn't getting any better and I'm not getting any younger.

 

It's not just the physical aspect or the fact that I'm becoming insanely lonely, it's the fact that I'm growing increasingly terrified that I've never aquired basic social skills that most people have by the time they're teenagers. I don't know how to talk to girls, I don't know how to act around them. I know the conventional advice is "be yourself" but that brings up a whole other set of issues, chiefly being that I've got like no self confidence. At all. And the fact that I'm at the age I am and have absolutely zero experience with girls does nothing to make that better.

 

I want things to be different, but I'm just afraid I lack the ability to change them and the longer this goes on the worse it gets. I mean, say I did ask a girl out....How do I deal with the fact that I'm 24 years old and know nothing about kissing? It's just insanely embarassing.

 

I feel like a pathetic idiot. I really, really do. But I don't know what else to do.

[Enema]

Step 1: Hire Escort

Step 2: Learn from Escort

Step 3: Get girl

Step 4: ??

Step 5: Profit.

[Zeromus]

That would likely solve nothing.

 

Anyway, I have neither the funds nor the desire to do that.

[Yosef]

Well, I guess your situation makes me feel a little bit better.

 

Well, a man by the name of Joel Osteen (sp?) had never dated before and he was in his mid 20's like you. He did find one though.

 

The story may not seem important, but Joel Osteen is a famous christian speaker, and when you've heard that you can get married on your first date, when you're in your MID 20's, it really brings up your self esteem if you've never dated, like me or you.

 

The first thing I would focus on for you, which I've done over this past summer, is working on building your confidence level. It's not easy, but do it little by little so you remain comfortable doing so. Perform simple tasks to your friends that may force you to do something a little bit outside of your comfort zone. See if the reaction to yourself and from your friends is positive or negetive and build from there. Eventually, begin talking to more people and making more friends. This will help build upon your social skills as a person.

 

Eventually move onto doing favors for random people. This will be an attraction lever. Later, just start saying "Hi" or "How are you doing today?" or "Lovely weather." just something simple when a girl passes by, and also say "Hi" or "How are you today?" when a man passes by, improving your overall socialization and making it less evident you're trying to get a girl.

 

Do just simple steps to make yourself more comfortable and it will pay off. This has helped me and I do hope it helps you out a lot as well.

 

Good luck.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

The above poster, Yosef, provided great advice for you, Zeromus.

 

Talking about this issue online won't change anything, Zeromus.

Talking about this issue with family won't change anything.

Talking about this issue with friends won't change anything.

 

You want to see change. You have to do it on your own. You have to decide to take a step forward, and get to know men and women alike.

 

One precaution is to stay clear of asking women out right now. You have to build your self-confidence first -if only by 2 or 3 degrees -before jumping in the dating scene.

 

Otherwise, the full-force rejection you may experience at first will probably cause deeper scares than just a faint blow to your ego.

 

No one said you have to rush, find a woman today, and get married tomorrow.

Go out and do something about your situation. Do something.

 

Sand&Water

[Yosef]

I do agree with your statement, Sand&Water, but the problem I find with your approach is the stiffness. Gentle advice is stronger than the toughest advice.

 

Talking about your current situation is a stress-reliever. It is for me. I don't expect the world's greatest help, I just want people to listen to what I have to say and respond, rather than saying mhm, yah, so? and etc. Talking takes the load of bottling it up in your chest off of you.

 

Good advice is given with sympathy, not with concrete details. Talking about it with family, friends, and peers allows others to comment with their past experiences with similar instances, such as I had commented with my personal experience. When you have someone you can relate to then you no longer feel alone, threatened, starved, or forgotten. People can tell you all they want, "You're not the only one with those problems!" but it doesn't pay the bill until you actually communicate with someone that CAN pay the bill!

 

In short, if you're worried about something, dont be afraid to let someone know about it. It is a relief and they will be likely to help you.

There are people out there with similar experiences, but events speak louder than words. When you experience the event once, it makes more of an impact than when being bombarded with the same words repeatedly.

[JCD]

I think you want to know how to talk to a complete stranger say a girl sitting next to you on a bus. You've never seen her but there is some chemistry that you feel for her right away. The first thing you should do is look at her and examine her for items she might be wearing or holding. Say she is wearing sneakers. You compliment her on her sneakers and tell her that if you were a woman that you could understand how you could wear sneakers but for the life of yours you can't imagine wearing high heels. That it must be awful to walk in those all day. She's a girl and I'm sure she wore high heels at one time so she'll understand. Ask her where she bought her sneakers and how much she paid for them. Then tell her how much your shoes cost and where you bought them. You're basically are trying to find some common interests as you speaking to her. She might mention that she bought her sneakers in the same shoe store you bought yours and then you can tell her that you live couple of blocks away from the store. She might mention that she lives near by. Then tell her that since you two live close by that if she would like to meet up for a drink sometimes and give her your phone number. I mean, conversations can go any which way and you can steer it to where you want it to go if you put some effort into it.

 

You are basically trying to avoid conflict with the girl, becoming funny and touch upon some topics that would lead you further to more topics so you two can have something to talk about. One afternoon after work I began talking to this girl who worked in my place but who I never talked to before. Two hours later, I felt like I knew her all my life. It really takes two alike people to carry on the conversation though. She was as much interested about me as I was about her. It did turned out that she was happily married but I continued the conversation and we became good friends. I can talk to her about anything both decent and indecent topics that would make you blush

 

So, you're looking for a girl that you can talk to about anything and feel really comfortable around. Not every girl will be like this and you can't blame yourself for failing. She just wasn't compatible with you.

 

One thing I don't recommend is continuation of staring at a girl without speaking to her. What happens then that you reach intimate stage without going thru the get to know you stage and it's very hard to get back to getting to know you stage once you've basically signaled to her that you like her. What do you say then? Hi my name is Fred? When you really want to say 'let's go to my place for a little fun'. You would be surprised how much you can carry on this glazing at each other thing. So I suggest you glaze a little bit but then quickly introduce yourself and start talking to her to get to know her before you get your heart involved too much ie. infatuation sets in.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

I didn't mean to sound harsh and cold towards you, Zeromus. You are right, though, Yosef.

 

I should have made myself clear. [---There is no magic formula]

 

The advice I provided was only meant to illustrate that, although talking to friends and family does significantly help, in the long run though the only way to move forward and see change is IF you decide to use your will power to achieve your goal(s) -i.e. find a woman/girlfriend.

 

Seeing others, around you, experience love and infatuation is difficult in and of itself. No matter how many hours you spend talking and receiving advice from such people, you will never be able to fully be ready to love a woman on your own -and succeed.

 

You have to experience love and inner relationship bumps in order to feel and know how it is you function in a relationship with the right loving person.

 

Take your time. Just start out by opening yourself up to meeting new people, events, and sharing your thoughts, ideas, imaginations, and soul with the person you choose to attract.

 

Sand&Water

[Yosef]

I know you weren't trying to sound cold, Sand&Water, I just wanted to point out, your advice was too straight-forward, and that maybe in later replies you can include how to begin and how to actually improve one's self, other than just telling them to do so. When writing a paper, all questions must be answered, even if the wrighter asked no questions to begin with. The reader will want to know how something is done, rather than the fact that it needs to be done.

 

It seems you realized that, though. Thank you for making it clear.

 

BTW, we haven't heard from you in a while Zeromus, I hope you found your answers. Don't give up. I've been where you were and it's not an easy task to get out, but once you do a whole new world opens up. Just give yourself credit for being brave enough to tell us your problems so that they may be answered. I wish you the best of luck and support.

[Zeromus]

Sorry, I've been sort of busy with work and assorted other things.

 

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

 

I think my biggest problem is that it's sort of turned into a vicious circle, which is to say that I know that ultimately I've got to break the cycle of what's going on, but I'm scared about what would happen if I did.

That might not make much sense, so let me offer and example- Say I do slowly work my way up to being able to ask a girl out and I finally do....how do I eventually deal with the fact that I'm in the situation I am? How do I explain that I'm 24 and never done...well, anything that goes with that sort of thing, before? It's really embarassing.

 

And I realize that there's a lot of putting the cart before the horse in that sort of thinking, it's just that this particular issue really hits at my self worth issues (and they aren't HUGE or anything, they're just there and something I have to deal with everyday)...That whole "You've got to like yourself before someone else can like you" think. It isn't that I don't like myself, but in certain aspects I am embarassed and ashamed of myself.

And I know it's ultimately something only I can fix. It's just a pretty daunting challenge, especially since there's no one I can really talk about this sort of stuff to.

[BookCentipede]

Lift weights. Work out hard. Confidence and the girls will come soon after you turn youself into a bad mofo. Trust me. Just do it.

[Balalaika]

I want things to be different, but I'm just afraid I lack the ability to change them and the longer this goes on the worse it gets.

 

That whole "You've got to like yourself before someone else can like you" think. It isn't that I don't like myself, but in certain aspects I am embarassed and ashamed of myself.

 

 

It's not your ability that's the problem, it's your perspective which determines your self esteem which determines your actions that you need to work on.

 

Right now you're scared that if you met a girl, told her of your inexperience she'd ultimately reject you, yeah?. And if she didn't, you wouldn't know what to do, yeah?.

 

Well, firstly, the girl you really want to be with is someone who likes you enough to not think badly about you or your inexperience. If you meet a girl and you get to the point where your inexperience is evident and she belittles you or runs, believe me, she's done you a big favour.

 

If I was 24 and I met a guy who was 24 with zip experience, and I really liked him, I'd see it as something endearing about him. I'd enjoy teaching him, I'd enjoy watching him 'blossom', I'd enjoy knowing he had his firsts with me.

 

Secondly, you don't really have to explain anything. Fake it till you make it!. Meaning, you meet a girl, you ask her out, there's mutual attraction, there's an opportunity for a kiss.... there's no need to blurt out "I've never kissed anyone before, so sorry if this isn't gonna rock your world".... just close your eyes and kiss her!, go with it, feel it, learn her.

 

Take the focus of yourself and your inexperience and pour it onto them, from kissing to anything more sexually.... ask them if it feels good, what they like, get them to show you what feels good for them. Not only will you initially cover up your inexperience but she'll think you're the most selfless, considerate man on the planet. Fake it till you make it!.

 

Whoever you end up having your firsts with will have been in the exact same position you're in once too, they started somewhere too. They are no better than you. Don't put yourself down, don't compare yourself to others, find the positive perspective.

[Zeromus]

It's not your ability that's the problem, it's your perspective which determines your self esteem which determines your actions that you need to work on.

 

Right now you're scared that if you met a girl, told her of your inexperience she'd ultimately reject you, yeah?. And if she didn't, you wouldn't know what to do, yeah?.

 

Well, firstly, the girl you really want to be with is someone who likes you enough to not think badly about you or your inexperience. If you meet a girl and you get to the point where your inexperience is evident and she belittles you or runs, believe me, she's done you a big favour.

 

If I was 24 and I met a guy who was 24 with zip experience, and I really liked him, I'd see it as something endearing about him. I'd enjoy teaching him, I'd enjoy watching him 'blossom', I'd enjoy knowing he had his firsts with me.

 

Secondly, you don't really have to explain anything. Fake it till you make it!. Meaning, you meet a girl, you ask her out, there's mutual attraction, there's an opportunity for a kiss.... there's no need to blurt out "I've never kissed anyone before, so sorry if this isn't gonna rock your world".... just close your eyes and kiss her!, go with it, feel it, learn her.

 

Take the focus of yourself and your inexperience and pour it onto them, from kissing to anything more sexually.... ask them if it feels good, what they like, get them to show you what feels good for them. Not only will you initially cover up your inexperience but she'll think you're the most selfless, considerate man on the planet. Fake it till you make it!.

 

Whoever you end up having your firsts with will have been in the exact same position you're in once too, they started somewhere too. They are no better than you. Don't put yourself down, don't compare yourself to others, find the positive perspective.

 

I understand and agree with the majority of that.

 

My main problem is that I'm very hard on myself. Very self-judgemental. But the weird thing is that I only feel that way in regards to girls. I've never had that much trouble making male friends or viewing a male as an equal. I get along well with co-workers, am as social as I feel I need to be, etc.

 

With girls it's a whole different game. Always has been. I start picking random things about myself to dwell on and convince myself that I'm not approaching them as an equal, that I'm approaching them as an inferior.

 

Weird, right? I don't have an explanation for it, but it's always been that way. I get intimidated, I freeze up. It's completely irrational, and yet even though I know it's irrational, it still eats me up and prevents me from getting anywhere with a girl even as a friend, let alone in a romantic capacity.

 

That's what I mean when I talk about aquiring basic social skills that 99% of people already have. I don't understand why they never developed, but they didn't. And I'm just scared that at the age I'm at now, I'm not going to be able to develop them.

 

The flip side of that is that I wake up every day and ask myself what went so wrong with me that I let it get this far out of hand.

[blowingthetrout]

get a chupacabra dude, all your problems will be solved, even some problems you don't even have yet.

[Balalaika]

I start picking random things about myself to dwell on and convince myself that I'm not approaching them as an equal, that I'm approaching them as an inferior.

 

On the surface this is self-sabotage, fear of success.... "I'll get me before they do". It's a wall against intimacy (into-me-see) in order to protect yourself from further pain and anxiety..... if you tell yourself you're not good enough, no one can get in, and if no one can get in no one can ever really get too close, and if no one ever really gets close you'll never be vulnerable to the risk of getting hurt again. It's a defense mechanism.

 

It's completely irrational, and yet even though I know it's irrational, it still eats me up and prevents me from getting anywhere with a girl even as a friend, let alone in a romantic capacity

 

Defense mechanisms are irrational and illogical..... you don't really know why you're doing what you're doing, their job is to distort reality in order to protect you.

 

I'm not an analyst nor claiming to be one.... but I've learnt a lot about how the mind responds to early trauma through working on my own stuff. Seems to me there's early trauma your mind is protecting you from surfacing. Only you might have an incling as to what that might be.

 

That's what I mean when I talk about aquiring basic social skills that 99% of people already have. I don't understand why they never developed, but they didn't. And I'm just scared that at the age I'm at now, I'm not going to be able to develop them.

 

The first step to changing anything about ourselves is awareness. You are there. It really isn't too late at all. You can change this pattern.

 

The flip side of that is that I wake up every day and ask myself what went so wrong with me that I let it get this far out of hand.

 

It's not 'this far out of hand'.... look at it this way.... the terror of carrying on as you have been is hitting you between the eyes causing you to start searching your way out, now. At 24. The only thing you need to fear is standing still. Some people go through their whole lives doing the same things, getting themselves into the same situations but not once looking at themselves, instead either blaming someone or something else and carrying on because the pain of doing what's familiar, comfortable and safe is less than the pain of the unknown.

 

The one thing you can start doing is being aware that everytime you judge yourself as not being good enough, you're carrying on with what someone else started. Don't keep giving them that power.

 

You really can change the pattern, but it'll take lotsa work.

[Zeromus]

It's completely irrational, and yet even though I know it's irrational, it still eats me up and prevents me from getting anywhere with a girl even as a friend, let alone in a romantic capacity

 

Defense mechanisms are irrational and illogical..... you don't really know why you're doing what you're doing, their job is to distort reality in order to protect you.

 

I'm not an analyst nor claiming to be one.... but I've learnt a lot about how the mind responds to early trauma through working on my own stuff. Seems to me there's early trauma your mind is protecting you from surfacing. Only you might have an incling as to what that might be.

 

I was pretty overweight as a kid and got teased a lot about it. It was something I dealt with well into high school before finally getting so sick of it that I decided to get in shape. I successfully dropped the weight, but I still struggle with the mentality that I developed during that time (which weirdly enough didn't go away with the weight loss.), which is one where I was quite shy and shut people out for fear of being mocked or ridiculed. I know in some ways that seems like a bit of a copout, blaming all this on stuff that happened as a kid and teenager, but that really seems to be the only thing I can trace it back to.

[DoomFlake]

Zeromus, don't worry. Just be yourself, do something you're interested in where there are girls around. Be friendly to people you see every day. Smile, say hi and that's all! When you and a girl really like each other you won't have to worry about asking her out, when to kiss, etc. because it will just happen naturally. Really! And about your lack of experience with women, girls don't care about that stuff if they like you!!! And you aren't as unusual as you might think you are, it's just not the sort of thing that guys or girls bring up casually.

[Balalaika]

seems like a bit of a copout, blaming all this on stuff that happened as a kid and teenager

 

What happens to us as kids shapes who we are as adults. As kids we just don't have the life experience to be able to effectively handle large amounts of emotional turmoil.... at 8/9/10 years of age do you really think you could have objectively said to yourself "they're teasing me coz I'm fat, well I'm ok with who I am and that's all that matters, wonder what's up with them?" and just shrugged it off. Nah. As kids it goes straight in and hurts like hell.... so a defense mechanism gets bourne to protect you (ie survive). Got us through childhood, but it doesn't necessarily shift all on it's own just because we've become adults. We get stuck there.

 

It's only a copout if, now as an adult, you use your understanding of why you react they way you do, and where it came from as an excuse to carry on doing it, rather than letting it go and moving forwards.

 

I was pretty overweight as a kid and got teased a lot about it. >>>>> I successfully dropped the weight, but I still struggle with the mentality that I developed during that time >>>>>> I'm very hard on myself. Very self-judgemental. I'm approaching them as an inferior. >>>>>> The one thing you can start doing is being aware that everytime you judge yourself as not being good enough, you're carrying on with what someone else started. >>>>>> Don't keep giving them that power.

 

Read what's underlined above as one sentence.

 

You need to start being your own best friend. You need to start believing in yourself (you're stuck with you for the rest of your life, might as well make the most of it!). Just as you went on a diet to get rid of the weight, you now need to go on a mental diet. Challenge each one of those voices that want to mock, ridicule and convince you aspects of yourself are less than (they don't belong to you). Literally tell em to f**k off.... at first they'll resist, but sooner or later they'll get the message and quieten down. It takes exactly the same amount of work to make yourself feel awful and be miserable as it does to make yourself feel good and be happy.... the choice is yours.

[Magnatolia]

You need to give yourself goals. Imagine someone who decides to sail around the world makes no preparations, justs gets a boat and heads in the direction he thinks is correct. Fat chance he'll succeed. Same goes with dating and general confidence with women.

 

I am working on my conversational skills to make myself more interesting. For example, one small thing I figured out recently. If a girl tells me something about herself, but doesn't give much detail I assume either A)That's all the info she wants to give or B) There's nothing else to tell. Well recently a girl told me she worked as a waitress in london. See there's no details to work on, so I would have said something like 'wow that would have been good' but then the ball is in her court and if she says 'yeah it was' that topic is dead. Whereas this time I asked 'where' And the topic was on fire haha.

 

We chatted for about 2 hours, there were a few silent moments however I'm starting to realise that silence isn't necessarily bad. It's bad when you're the one constantly filling the void

 

Anyway, advice is to take small steps. For example, 'be yourself' is crap because that's why you're getting no results/success. Don't change yourself/image/look just to get a girl interested (unless you're happy for the change). Best thing to do is start conversations with workmates, that way when you screw up ( and you will in the beginning) you can simply say something like 'I'll leave you to it'.

[JCD]

It's not like girls are going to bite you back when you talk to them. Many will want to talk about anything just so they can talk. I know a girl that rejected me and next day she asked when am I going to talk to her again. Anyways, when the right girl comes along, you'll talk to her no problem. I can't talk to all the girls because some of them or their type, how they act, I don't like but it's normal because among them are girls I can talk to and plenty of them.

[Zeromus]

I'd like to thank everyone for their advice.

 

Having taken some time to think about matters I'm sort of afraid that some of this sounded a little like self pity, which I didn't intend it to.

 

Abject terror would be a more accurate term.

 

And while I thought about it more, I realized there's even more to this. I live in a small town (about 18,000) people but it is a college town so there are still lots of people in my age range. Yet it seems everywhere I go girls are already with someobdy. Even if I could work my way up to asking a girl out (still a ways off) I don't know where to look.

 

Maybe I'm sabatoging myself, but I'm increasingly tired of being alone. All the time. Sleeping alone. Eating alone. Spending my nights alone. It's become very upsetting.