Is stealing someone else's husband ok?

[moimeme]

My view is that the act of infidelity is the responsibility of the cheating spouse

 

Interesting. I don't agree. I know that people can be vulnerable and that the promise of having an unmet need met by someone new can tempt people who are unhappy. If a woman holds herself to be the solution to a man's problems (which is exactly what happens) when he's troubled in his relationship, she'll likely win him. You know emotions don't really mature. You know that the first flush of infatuation is exactly the same whether you're 16 or 60. To me, trying to lure a vulnerable man from his wife is as bad as taking advantage of a lonely teenager.

 

There is some sort of idea out there that we get tougher and less vulnerable as we age but that's horsefeathers. Yes, we learn to manage a bit better as time goes on but loneliness and unhappiness leaves one open to manipulation at any age.

 

I think that people who deliberately make plays for married folks are skanks. And I am distinguishing that from the cases where married people fall for other people through becoming friends and then becoming closer than they intend; I'm talking about a person who has already concluded that her action will constitute 'stealing' someone else's spouse and is contemplating whether to go ahead. This is a deliberate action and that constitutes clear lack of ethics.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I think that people who deliberately make plays for married folks are skanks.

 

But then doesn't this constitute as "moral judgment?" And if so, how can we fairly do so without having walked a mile in their boots?

[moimeme]

I already anticipated your question. Yep, it's a judgment; no question. Questions of morality boil down to questions of choice, as I see it. Morality begins where choice exists; if a person fully understands that what he or she is about to do is wrong and then deliberately chooses to do wrong, that's when something becomes immoral. The question is whether people know or understand something is immoral and whether they actually deliberately make the choice to do it. If a lbaby picks something up in a store and tries to walk away with it, that isn't wrong because the baby doesn't understand that what he's doing is wrong. The adult who understands wrong is able to do wrong. But then there's the kleptomaniac - people who suffer overwhelming compulsions to do things. They don't deliberately choose their action; they are driven.

 

Our discussions of morality all rest upon people's beliefs about how much human behaviour is deliberate. Some people choose to believe that homosexuality is a deliberate choice. Others understand that it is a biological difference. This person *knows* she will be 'stealing' someone's husband. That is much different from having become friends with a man and then finding out they have fallen for each other without intending it.

 

The 'walk a mile in his shoes' connotes that unless you are in the person's head, you can never know for sure that the person has made a deliberate choice to do 'wrong' out of a thorough, rational examination of the pros and cons of the situation. In judging others, people ascribe intent without knowing at all what is in the person's head. [color=blue]It is the assumption that another has made a deliberate choice to do wrong that constitutes judgement.[/color] In this case, this person has demonstrated that she fully understands that what she is about to do is wrong so there is no equivocation.

 

It is not that there is no right or wrong. It is that without ALL the information, you cannot determine what was behind a person's choice of action. In this case, it is quite clear that deliberate choice is the issue.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Well done, Moimeme!

 

My hat goes off to ya!

 

There aren't many I've met who could shut me up quite as eloquently as you.

 

I rescind!

[moimeme]

My intent wasn't to shut you up! Thanks, though

 

I must thank you also for challenging me; it forced me to expound further on the issue of judgment and clarify, in writing, the essential error people commit in judging others.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I admire the way you clarified your statements!

 

I wanted to respond on the previous thread, but did not wish to redirect the subject of “why people cheat” any further.

 

The point I wanted to make is that it is irrelevant whether “moral judgment” is right or wrong. The fact remains that it is still an intricate part of our reality and daily lives. Without “moral judgment,” whether self-imposed or inflicted, where would be our accountability? Too easy it would be for people to commit atrocities then simply avoid accountability by declaring “you have no right to judge me.”

 

My concern came when I saw a poster on this very thread use the statement you provided on a previous post. Almost to the word, she uses it defend her resolve to pursue a married man in her office…despite the fact that she is married as well.

 

People think that they know it all, and they don't unless you have walked in my shoes, no one has a clue.

 

Such quaint clichés such as “don’t judge a man unless you have walked a mile in his shoes” are helpful when they inspire and promote healing. But when used to defend someone in obvious denial, they can also be dangerously enabling.

 

As frightening as our world is becoming, I feel fortunate enough to be living in a time where morality still has some intrinsic value, although I fear it is quickly becoming an endangered human virtue. Without morality, humanity as we know it will cease to exist and I fear we shall all revert back to the primates from which we descended!

[moimeme]

Such quaint clichés such as “don’t judge a man unless you have walked a mile in his shoes” are helpful when they inspire and promote healing. But when used to defend someone in obvious denial, they can also be dangerously enabling.

 

Such a noble book as the Bible gets used by people to mistreat others. I'm sure Jenny can supply the fallacy which lies behind 'people will misuse it and therefore we must never use it'. A little boy will take a soft cuddly animal and beat his sister with it. It doesn't make the animal bad.

 

I put her straight on what my earlier post meant.

 

Yes, there should be morality. No, we may not appoint ourselves judge, jury, and executioner in respect of that morality. It's enough of a task for anyone to guard his or her own morals without being on the lookout for everyone else. Funnily enough, people seem to devote much more time to the latter than the former.

 

Too easy it would be for people to commit atrocities then simply avoid accountability by declaring “you have no right to judge me.”

 

Ah, the good old 'slippery slope' argument. Extrapolating from a situation to the most extreme possible outcome is another ploy which does work to sway people, even though, like other similar ploys, it does not bear out in fact. If a person is self-aware enough to understand that he is likely to be judged and crafty enough to try to dodge judgment using some sort of philosophical argument, then he has passed the 'conscious choice to do wrong' test and therefore is indeed open to be judged.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Yes, there should be morality. No, we may not appoint ourselves judge, jury, and executioner in respect of that morality.

 

If a person is self-aware enough to understand that he is likely to be judged and crafty enough to try to dodge judgment using some sort of philosophical argument, then he has passed the 'conscious choice to do wrong' test and therefore is indeed open to be judged.

 

A contradiction?

 

Then who do you think is qualified to judge or set the standards for basic human decency, if not our fellow man?

 

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your argument. Perhaps you'll have to "dummy-it" down for me a little...

[moimeme]

Then who do you think is qualified to judge or set the standards for basic human decency, if not our fellow man?

 

It's not who, it's how. It is conducting a thorough enquiry to find out whether the deed was committed deliberately. Those who believe in the behaviourist and some cognitivist views of man believe that every action of a human is deliberately chosen (and yes, this is a huge simplification of a theory).

 

So therefore a child who is beaten throughout his childhood and grows up to be a murderer is totally responsible for his actions. There is no allowance for the possibility that damage done to the brain or psyche may cause negative behaviours. That is an extreme example. A lesser example goes back to our original topic; someone who is unhappy in a marriage for whatever reason and who doesn't have the means or inner fortitude to find help for the marriage becomes friends with another person. They fall for each other. The unhappy person is, unwittingly, vulnerable to that sort of situation. S/he didn't choose to fall in love; s/he fully expected to just be friends with the other person. This was not a deliberate choice.

 

The poster who started this thread already used the word 'steal' with respect to the act she was considering performing which shows she knows exactly what the act will involve and the consequences it will reap. However, not every case is that simple to judge.

[Hunter]

Thanks all for the help

 

I have decided to be the grown up here and talk to the co-worker about our little arrangement at the office.

This happened just this morning, and it was the hardest thing that I have ever not wanted to do, but felt that it just had to be done.

 

I was honest with him, just because I am the one in an unloved and almost meaningless relationship, I have no right to interfer with his. He and his wife have been married for 15 years, and I hate myself for even thinking that I wanted him.

 

He apologized too for leading me on, he said that he has been committed to his wife for such a long time, that when he realized that I liked him, it was nice to be wanted by someone else. He is an older man 55, and he was feeling that he had lost that quality to be able to be attracted or worthy of someone else.

 

We had a long talk, and he knows that I am hurt, but I deserve that, like what the hell was I thinking. I am not the kind of person that goes around hurting people, and I wanted to take this arrangement farther than the friendship level. I am glad that your posts made me grow up before something awful happened like we were found out.

 

The problem now, is that I am hurting beyond the hurt, and he knows this. I never wanted to fall in love with this man, I really didn't, I am not even sure what I wanted to come out of this office hanky panky. But one thing is that I know it is over, and that is ok. (Yes I am lying to myself).

 

How do I get past this hurt while having to work with him on a daily basis, when my heart is getting ripped out over and over, and I have to see on a daily basis what a great man he is to his wife and other co-workers. Quitting work is not an option.

 

And for those who say go out and get professional help as to the reason that I keep getting into relationships such as these, where I get treated like dirt, I have been to counselling, on and off for three years, and I am still beating myself up and will probably continue to do so. I am finally realizing that maybe I am just meant to be alone and unloved in this world.

 

But at least I know that I have done my part, at the office, and I am going to keep our relationship a working one, and we are going to remain friends. That is comforting to me at this point. AFter all, it is all that I have...

And although I am sitting here at work with a broken heart, and feeling very hurt, and he is in the next office,

I know that I did the right thing.

 

Once again, thank to you all........and my apologies to those that I may have offended, when I was trying to justify wanting some one else's husband.

[veronica1922]

To tell yourself that getting involved with a married person is not stealing and is their fault not yours is nothing but lies you tell yourself so you can just go ahead and do whatever selfish thing you want to do and not accept responsibility or blame for it.

 

A married person is OFF LIMITS for flirting with or responding to if they flirt with you, or carrying on any type of affair.

 

If you broke into my home and took my tv that's stealing and most people would agree it is wrong to do. Why? Because you are taking something that does not belong to you, taking it from some one it does belong to. And that's just a tv set! To take someone's husband or wife is an amazingly cruel and selfish choice to make.

 

To say your emotions are just too much for you to control is nonsense. Being a responsible adult is about learning self control, about learning to live within society's rules. And we ALL know what the rules of marriage are.

 

 

Don't kid yourself or lie to yourself by thinking you are not as guilty as the married person you are cheating with. ANY thing you are telling yourself to make this ok to do is a LIE to yourself and simple avoidance of fact and responsibility, INCLUDING the line about "well, if he/she is willing then they can't be stolen". NO. You are still responsible for your actions and you are causing someone (a wife or husband, the person you are having the affair with, their children and other loved ones, AND yourself) a great deal of harm.

 

Take my tv, I'll be mad and have to replace it, but I'll get over that pretty fast. Take my husband and you can ruin my life.

 

And we all also know the power of flirting and seduction, so please, no more of that nonesense about you (the one chasing a married person) not being to blame. HOGWASH.

[veronica1922]

just as I posted my previous post, I saw the new post by the woman who was involved with a co worker. I just want to say I admire your choice to take responsibility and act to remedy the situation.

 

I hope you can find happiness in your current relationship, or in your future find one that is worth holding and cherishing. Take with you what lessons you can.

[erika2610]

So because I'm an exOW means that I'm damned to hell? I am NOT a skank in any, way, shape or form. Just a girl who fell for the wrong man. And yes, I did know he was married. I am not a bad person for it. Everybody has there own situations.. there own circumstances. Who're you to judge? You can not judge ANYBODY.. that makes you just as bad a person. And judging from these posts, not alot of you have been with a MM or MW.. so why're you here? I mean, we come here for advice, support and to help other people who're dealing with it. Not to be told we are 'skanks'.

[MsMree]

is everything that we as OW struggle with - do you think we have "sing-song" days because of the situation - perhaps there are a few (just like in any situation!) that do not struggle with the moral dilemmas of their relationship but it is not the majority.

 

For me, i struggle all the time w/the guilt!! Believe me, this is not something i would have ever done to another woman - but for each of us there is a different situation - IT'S NOT LIKE THE MOVIES where there is a "good person/bad person" in these situations nor is their one person to blame solely.

 

If we didn't struggle w/this relationship, and yes, the moral struggle being at the top, we wouldn't be here - we must feel pretty bad already to have to find some help or support from complete strangers!!

 

I'm not sure why this post resurfaced; perhaps the one to resurface it is still going through a tough time and needs to blame - i understand that! I go through those times myself, but my emotions get separated between love and guilt, not love and blame.

 

MY MM AND I ARE IN LOVE - and sometimes you do not choose who you fall in love with.

 

I truly wish no person was hurt in these relationships, but that is just wishful think'g.

[Annoyed]

I don't buy any of that cr*p that OWs come out with. Trying to justify them having relationships with married men by saying that it's very 'hard' for the OW.

 

Honestly, if you are in love with someone who is married then let him leave his wife and then pursue the relationship, if it's really that much of an attraction.

 

Otherwise just stay away from him. He should stay away from you too. People will always meet people they are attracted to throughout their lives, they just have to learn to stay away form that person and not let anything happen to deepen the connection.

 

ESPECIALLY if there are children involved. Once you have children your priorities change, you cannot think of yourself as number one anymore.

 

Stop all this rubbish about having signs on your heads (as on other threads) and just leave these men alone.

[newby]

'scuse me for interupting, but..

i think the original question has been taken literally when the threader was merely stating her indignance that she got attacked for her situation whereas the people in this forum who are doing "much worse" are being supported.

[MsMree]

thanks, Annoyed!!

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by moimeme

Well, actually not. Most, if not all, relationships do go through bad patches and an outsider, if he or she wants to, can pour on all the strategies and take advantage of someone who is having problems in the relationship. Sometimes when you're in the midst of troubles, the grass does look greener elsewhere. However relationships can be salvaged if both people work on them. So to 'prey' on someone when he or she is in the midst of a difficult relationship is skanky.

And, YES, it is wrong to take somebody else's partner. Besides, remember the saying: If they do it WITH you, they'll do it TO you. I don't agree that weak relationships are weak always, but a lot of cheaters are serial cheaters.

 

Why is it wrong? Because it causes hurt to someone else. And, yes, you are supposed to care about that.

 

I totally agree!!! That happened in my situation w/ H. H and I were having problems in our M and the "skank" (what myself, and everyone I know calls her) also preyed on him.

 

It is wrong. And I agree, if a M is strong and happy then there is no way you can "steal" that person from their spouse. The OW in my H's life said she didn't care if a man was M, she was going after him. She doesn't care.

[lynnered]

StillHurtin/veronica1922 /Annoyed

nobody is holding a gun to mm heads and sticking his d*** in anybody!!

i am xow 1 of all if we want to get nasty,

i can say if that cow of a wife took care of him at home sexually, emotanially and took care of her self then maybe he wouldn't NEED someone else ,

because most of the time a man will not stray if you keep doing what you did to get him.

and you act like your men are perfect &OW is sinner she took him ,if your man was so committed and loved you so much he would not take it to that level with another woman.

and guess what some MM when caught yes they will say they love you ,she was nothing thats not always the case she was nothing, cause they got caught all some w are to theseMM are the person who takes care of their kids ,who will screw them over in child support ,who will ruin their life when leaving you ,not cause they love you ,because their comfortable, comfortable with someone they no longer love ,comfortable seeing kids everyday.

there are so many married people unhappy out there many reasons to stick around and i still love her is not usually top of list,

with my xmm he felt he made a mistake knocking her up he had to live with it,he does not love her ,he feels stuck ,he was comfortable having a home,dog ,before knocking her up he stayed because he was scared he would be alone &hoped she would change her ignorant ways,

but anyway i was not the one married so where do you get off blaming OW?was she up there with you saying your vows? no, she most likely does not know you,owes you nothing he owes it to you to say ,I'm leaving,we need to work on this ,whatever not her .

[lynnered]

Originally posted by veronica1922

 

 

And we all also know the power of flirting and seduction, so please, no more of that nonesense about you (the one chasing a married person) not being to blame. HOGWASH.

 

power of flirting ?please

I've never been married but when im in a committed relationship ,a man can do anything i would not stray ,

yes it is the men too,they are the ones lieing to W they made commitment to her and if they don't have the balls to say I'm not happy,i need more sex ,lose some weight,I'm in love with someone else thats them doing W wrong not OW.

and usually MM/Ow just happens usually work or friendship but again if he had those basic needs ,communication,affection ,laughter,respect,good sex at home most would not stray ,sometimes people settle because they think they cant do better then they meet better &things sometimes happen i don't think i would ever have a A w/h a MM again ,but at the same time i understand these things happen ,its not always black or white hopefully you come here to help and understand not to insult people.

hogwash???

[Owl]

Why can't we all just get along???

 

Look...we all need to realize that none of this is truly black and white. Well, there may be RARE cases where the wandering spouse was the epitome of evil, and totally wanted to do nothing but what he felt like was fun at the time....or somone who was married to someone who really was so evil that ANY escape from the marriage was their only hope...or some poor woman or man who was so self-centered that they TRULY didn't give one whit of care about what they were doing to someone else's marriage.

 

But those are far and away the EXCEPTIONS...not the rules.

 

The majority of time, it's a mixture of things. My case in point...I'm NOT an ogre, or tyrant, or an evil bastard who ignored my wife. My wife is NOT a selfish "ho" who only wanted a good time no matter what. And the OM in our case was not some kind of predator who was only looking to satisfy himself and didn't give a damn about the consequences.

 

The real truth of the matter is that there were some things that my wife and I were struggling with in our marriage. She felt as though she wasn't loved...which wasn't true, but it was how she felt. At the same time, there was a lonely guy out there who wasn't looking for anyone. And they met, and a friendship between the three of us started. And their friendship crossed the line... Both of them seriously regretted what the whole thing was going to do to me and my family...they talked about it. They both felt that they couldn't help themselves...that's not true, but it's how they felt.

 

It's done with now. Their affair ended, and my wife stayed home. She feels a ton of guilt over the whole thing...about what she did to me, and how hard it's been for me to deal with. And I have no doubt that she feels a lot of guilt for the OM, who ended up back on his own again. I hated him for a while, but looking back, I can say that he really did try to do the right thing for my wife in almost all of his choices. All I can fault him with is for not TRULY being my friend and telling me what was going on.

 

And you know what...I think that this is probably closer to how the whole affair thing works out more often than not. He's not evil...just someone who was lonely and hurting, and met someone who was feeling the same way. She wasn't evil....she just felt like there was something wrong in our marriage, and didn't know how to fix it. And she made the mistake of turning to someone else. And I'm not evil...I too made mistakes in our marriage that added to how my wife felt, but in the end was able to see them, and make the changes our marriage needed to survive.

 

So why doesn't everyone just cool their jets about blaming each other, and work on helping yourselves to do the right things going forward? That's what I'm trying to do anyway...heal from the past, and make myself a better person going forward.

[newby]

well posted owl

BS's,BS's, please read some of the posts in this forum, does it really sound to you as though any of these OW (with the exception of maybe 1) are being calculating and planning to steal husbands??

the SITUATION is one in which there has to be lies and deceit for it to survive i am afraid, i am trying not to blame the CS but is the CS that has to lie in the first place, he/she has to lie to the spouse and then lie to the OP in order to carry it on. it is a situation where nobody wins, not the BS not the OW and ultimately not the CS either. as for "oor OW" i could also say i'm sick of people sympathising with the "poor wife" i mean the wife always gets him in the end doesnt she? the fact is neither the W nor the OW have been in each others shoes and therefore doesnt know how it feels. you might argue that the OW chose the sitch whereas the wife did not. well let me tell you that the situation the ow THINKS she is entering is rarely the situation that you KNOW she has entered. sorry

i hardly think ANYONE would choose this situation do you?

so to suggest that an OW sits down and says to herself "im going to go and steal her husband" is ridiculous!!!!

[whichwayisup]

Owl, You're awesome and I think this is the most amazing reply! That knowledge and understanding - such empathy for your wife and really putting yourself in her shoes is incredible.

 

Your thoughts about why your wife's affair started is probably why so many people have affairs.

 

Annoyed...

 

Honestly, if you are in love with someone who is married then let him leave his wife and then pursue the relationship, if it's really that much of an attraction.

 

Otherwise just stay away from him. He should stay away from you too. People will always meet people they are attracted to throughout their lives, they just have to learn to stay away form that person and not let anything happen to deepen the connection.

 

ESPECIALLY if there are children involved. Once you have children your priorities change, you cannot think of yourself as number one anymore.

 

Nicely put.

[Owl]

Originally posted by newby

well posted owl

BS's,BS's, please read some of the posts in this forum, does it really sound to you as though any of these OW (with the exception of maybe 1) are being calculating and planning to steal husbands??

the SITUATION is one in which there has to be lies and deceit for it to survive i am afraid, i am trying not to blame the CS but is the CS that has to lie in the first place, he/she has to lie to the spouse and then lie to the OP in order to carry it on. it is a situation where nobody wins, not the BS not the OW and ultimately not the CS either. as for "oor OW" i could also say i'm sick of people sympathising with the "poor wife" i mean the wife always gets him in the end doesnt she? the fact is neither the W nor the OW have been in each others shoes and therefore doesnt know how it feels. you might argue that the OW chose the sitch whereas the wife did not. well let me tell you that the situation the ow THINKS she is entering is rarely the situation that you KNOW she has entered. sorry

i hardly think ANYONE would choose this situation do you?

so to suggest that an OW sits down and says to herself "im going to go and steal her husband" is ridiculous!!!!

 

 

Newby-

I agree that MOST of the time, there was never a plan to steal someone's spouse. And if you read my response, you know that I have taken a lot of time to think about all three sides in an affair. Let me help provide a little more perspective, if I may...

 

The reasons that the other woman/man tends to get the blame are pretty straightforward. If the BS wants to accept back the WS, then one of the critical things that has to occur is that they have to FORGIVE the WS. It's not easy...in fact, a lot of BS's can't, and those situations inevitably lead to divorce. But, if they're going to forgive the WS, that leaves WHO for them to focus their anger on? After all, they've been hurt in ways that they'd never considered possible before, and SOMEONE has to be at fault, right?

 

So, they blame the OM/OW. I know I did, for quite a while. And...there is STILL some of that blame for him that I feel is justified. You see, in my case, he knew ME too. He KNEW my wife was married from the very first time he "met" her (remember, online affair). And he knew how he felt for her from day 1. So, my blame for him comes in two forms. ONE- He knew she was married from the beginning, and knew he was attracted to her right off....so he too had the option to "walk away" BEFORE they had the chance to act on it. All of us have choices that we make in our lives, and all of us need to be responsible for the choices we make. He made the choice to continue his "friendship" with her, and allowed it to grow into something more, all the while knowing she was married. TWO- He was also (supposedly) my friend. As my "friend", he should have come to me when he knew that she was unhappy. He knew, but instead of doing the right thing for our marriage, or our friendship, he did the selfish thing and continued on with what was growing between them. THAT is what I still hold against him.

 

Let me re-phrase that...I don't hold it against him. I've forgiven him for what's done. But it IS why he'll never be a friend of any kind again.

 

I'm not sick of the OW's here feeling bad for themselves...I used to get angry over it. But I've come to realize that while they may have had choices, it doesn't diminish the pain that they too feel over the whole affair. And honestly, I know you feel like the BS wins in the end "i mean the wife always gets him in the end doesnt she?"...but the truth is like I've said it....NO ONE WINS. All of us end up getting hurt when an affair occurs. The WS ends up with a ton of guilt over what they've done to both the OM/OW and their spouse...the BS ends up with emotional scars, self-worth/self-doubt issues, totally at a loss on how to deal with trust...the OM/OW ends up with guilt over the hurt they caused the others in the affair, the loss of the MM/MW (if they did return), and again, feelings of loss of self worth over the fact that they were the "mistress" or whatever you want to call it. NO ONE WINS.

[newby]

Originally posted by Owl

Newby-

I agree that MOST of the time, there was never a plan to steal someone's spouse. And if you read my response, you know that I have taken a lot of time to think about all three sides in an affair. Let me help provide a little more perspective, if I may...

 

The reasons that the other woman/man tends to get the blame are pretty straightforward. If the BS wants to accept back the WS, then one of the critical things that has to occur is that they have to FORGIVE the WS. It's not easy...in fact, a lot of BS's can't, and those situations inevitably lead to divorce. But, if they're going to forgive the WS, that leaves WHO for them to focus their anger on? After all, they've been hurt in ways that they'd never considered possible before, and SOMEONE has to be at fault, right?

QUOTE BY OWL

 

yes i have thought this before and its true of course, on the otherhand i know some females who will always b!tch about the next woman that comes along even if she came after relationship is over and call her devious etc so i think it is a combination of things,

 

TWO- He was also (supposedly) my friend. As my "friend", he should have come to me when he knew that she was unhappy. He knew, but instead of doing the right thing for our marriage, or our friendship, he did the selfish thing and continued on with what was growing between them. THAT is what I still hold against him.

QUOTE BY OWL

 

i think it is of course another matter if he is your friend then again never been there so i wont judge

 

I'm not sick of the OW's here feeling bad for themselves...I used to get angry over it. But I've come to realize that while they may have had choices, it doesn't diminish the pain that they too feel over the whole affair. And honestly, I know you feel like the BS wins in the end "i mean the wife always gets him in the end doesnt she?"...but the truth is like I've said it....NO ONE WINS. All of us end up getting hurt when an affair occurs. The WS ends up with a ton of guilt over what they've done to both the OM/OW and their spouse...the BS ends up with emotional scars, self-worth/self-doubt issues, totally at a loss on how to deal with trust...the OM/OW ends up with guilt over the hurt they caused the others in the affair, the loss of the MM/MW (if they did return), and again, feelings of loss of self worth over the fact that they were the "mistress" or whatever you want to call it. NO ONE WINS.

 

i wasnt actually saying that the wife wins in my opinion, i was trying to illustrate the point that everyone else is better off depending on who's perspective you're looking from. everyone else looks like they got the better deal or the ok deal or what they should have expected anyway.

 

and also whilst of course part of learning from this and my particular situation is accepting responsiblity for my actions, i do, and i did feel terrible on the wife once i realised how oblivious she was to the fact that her "marriage was done" and the fact that they were only "living in the same house but living seperate lives"

it is just too complicated to explain how these things start and continue and whilst once i did feel obliged to justify my actions i dont anymore i just dont, sorry

thats not to say that if anyone is genuinely interested in the perspective of the OW i wont give them some insight its just that i did what i did for whatever reason and i am not going to feel bad for it or compromise myself by asking anyone to listen to my reasons and tell me they understand or not because what is the point, since mostly its about self esteem i dont see how THAT is going to help me, and if it doesnt help me then it wont help anyone i come into contact with either will it now?

thats how things escalate and i wont be party to it