My New Boundaries

[oppath]

With all the posts on possible cheating, ex's being in the picture, and can you really be friends with the ex, it would be nice for people to explain what their boundaries are on these issues.

 

Here are mine...once we've become official boyfriend/girlfriend

 

Friends with the ex? Cool. Can I meet him and be introduced as your new boyfriend? If the answer is no, then you can't hang out 1-on-1. Does he know about me? If the answer is no, then you can't be talking to him. If it would hurt his feelings to learn you had moved on, well, don't talk to him then, because you are NOT JUST FRIENDS. I'm not implying you need to call up all your ex's, what I am saying is if you are in contact, if we become exclusive, regardless of the awkwardness, my existence should be revealed. I don't expect this before exclusivity, but if we are official, show it in your actions.

I promise that if I am in a new relationship, if I talk regularly with someone I used to date/sleep with, I will tell them "I have a new girlfriend." This isn't the same as rubbing it in their face if they would be hurt by that information. If I can't share with an ex that I am in a new relationship, then she is not JUST FRIENDS. If an ex isn't comfortable being around me with my new

gf

present, then I will not hang out with that ex at all unless she happens to be somewhere I'

m

invited to in a friends-of-friends situation. If you doubt me, I will call the ex in question up in front of you and say "I know this may be weird, but I am in a new relationship; can you handle being just friends, and would you be willing to meet her if we hang out? If not, I understand, but perhaps we need more space before having a friendship."

Opposite sex friends? Do they know about me? No? If I'm not doing anything, and you are going out with a group of friends, I should be able to say "I'm not doing anything tonight and would love to meet your friends who you talk about often. Can I come too?" The answer better be yes. Not always, you will get your alone time. Do they know about me? Yes? Well, can I meet them anyways, because I want to meet the important people in your life. After all, your friends do not have to be my best friends, but for it to work out, they will have to be my friends.

 

I will invite you out to meet my friends, ESPECIALLY my female friends, and you will get to meet the guys too. I have nothing to hide. Of course, I want to be able to spend time without you with my friends of either gender, but you will get to know them. I will introduce you as my girlfriend and say to them "

so

this is my new girlfriend, the awesome girl I've been telling you about."

 

Same sex friends, the above still applies. Every 2-3 times you go out with your friends I should get to hang out too. It's called SHARING YOUR LIFE with me. I need alone time too, so you'll have plenty of space. I need quite a bit of space. Within a relationship, however, I desire is visibility.

You will meet my guy friends.

I am not suggesting you call everyone ever in your life up and say "I have a new boyfriend," but if you are hanging out with people, my existence should be revealed, you should want to begin sharing your life and the people in it with me, and you should want to share mine too. I have nothing to hide, I don't hide who I hang out with or my activities, I will disclose freely, and I expect the same.

 

If you white lie as in "dinner was great" when in fact I burned the grilled cheese, that's cool. If you hung out with your ex boyfriend who doesn't know you are in a relationship, and said you were taking a nap, not so much.

[vivi]

that's pretty good.

[Curmudgeon]

Here are mine...once we've become official boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

Good luck with that. What's an "official" boyfriend or girlfriend. By their very nature and definition, such relationships are transitory and uncommitted. In my opinion, nothing is "official" until an engagement has been entered into and announced.

 

If I was on the receiving end of those "boundaries," which I see as nothing more than demands, conditions and controls, I'd be saying that happiness was you in the rear-view mirror.

[norajane]

A partner who's excited and happy about being with you, tells everyone and can't get the silly grin off their face. If you have to set rules like that, then you already know they're not into you enough.

[rumours83]

Good luck with that. What's an "official" boyfriend or girlfriend. By their very nature and definition, such relationships are transitory and uncommitted. In my opinion, nothing is "official" until an engagement has been entered into and announced.

 

If I was on the receiving end of those "boundaries," which I see as nothing more than demands, conditions and controls, I'd be saying that happiness was you in the rear-view mirror.

 

Either you have had a lot of "open" relationships, or you have been engaged to every person you have had a relationship with! What about STDs? okay if you are "dating" the boundaries may be a bit blurred, but I think what most people would term a romantic relationship includes mutual exclusivity until the relationship ends. Cheating occurs when that exclusivity is broken. Boundaries have to be mutually agreed on, i.e. what the individuals in the couple consider cheating which can vary from not talking to exs to sex with someone else. Setting boundaries which both couples agree on can protect the relationship. For example my other half and i agree that one-on-one dates with the opposite sex are off limits. We due to get married very soon. Perception is also very important. If a friend saw one of us in the above situation with no explanation that would be concerned and possible wonder if an affair was happening. It's also about respect for yourself. Most people are over the moon in new relationships and want to tell all their friends. If your new partner did not want to tell his friends about your existence he is basically saying that you are not good enough company for him. Why the hell would you want to be with someone like that? Either that or he's keeping his options open which means he's not into you. Most healthy relationships will enter into these boundaries, both partners willing and often it's something that happens without discussion, although people's ideas can vary slightly and cause conflict and discussion is needed to resolve the issue. Curmudgeon i think you could be a bit hypocritical here as i am sure there are somethings you wouldn't tolerate in a relationship, if you say there are none, you are either a liar or you have yet to find someone you actually want to make happy.

[Curmudgeon]

Either you have had a lot of "open" relationships, or you have been engaged to every person you have had a relationship with! What about STDs?

 

Curmudgeon i think you could be a bit hypocritical here as i am sure there are somethings you wouldn't tolerate in a relationship, if you say there are none, you are either a liar or you have yet to find someone you actually want to make happy.

 

You're assuming that every dating relationship results in a sexual relationship which is not necessarily the case. I suppose if all you want is sex it could be but I prefer more of an emotional and spiritual connection first. That makes the difference between mere sex for its own sake and making love. I find the former shallow and the latter worth waiting for.

 

Of course there are certain things I wouldn't tolerate in a relationship but they are primarily reserved for committed relationships. That's one of the reasons a former, 25-year marriage ended. The ex stepped over a deal-breaking boundary.

 

As for not having found someone whom I wish to make happy, I'll go you one better. How about an almost 11 year marriage in which both our goals are to make one another happy? That's a mutuality that's a winning combination.

[birdie]

 

If I was on the receiving end of those "boundaries," which I see as nothing more than demands, conditions and controls, I'd be saying that happiness was you in the rear-view mirror.

 

I agree 100%. Everybody should be allowed to decide how much they want to share with you and how much they want to let you in in their lives. Everybody has the right for autonomy and their definition of autonomy.

[rumours83]

You're assuming that every dating relationship results in a sexual relationship which is not necessarily the case. I suppose if all you want is sex it could be but I prefer more of an emotional and spiritual connection first. That makes the difference between mere sex for its own sake and making love. I find the former shallow and the latter worth waiting for.

 

Of course there are certain things I wouldn't tolerate in a relationship but they are primarily reserved for committed relationships. That's one of the reasons a former, 25-year marriage ended. The ex stepped over a deal-breaking boundary.

 

As for not having found someone whom I wish to make happy, I'll go you one better. How about an almost 11 year marriage in which both our goals are to make one another happy? That's a mutuality that's a winning combination.

 

That's the thing though. in the uk it's not common to do the whole "dating" thing where you would be seeing more than one person at the same time looking for a potential relationship with either of them. It would just be one person, and at a point in that relationship, be it before or after sex, you would say you were in a "relationship". If you seeing someone on a regular basis to see if you were compatible for a romantic relationship, it would possibly be already exclusive, whether or not it turned into a romantic relationship. one at a time seems to cause less problems!

[rumours83]

I agree 100%. Everybody should be allowed to decide how much they want to share with you and how much they want to let you in in their lives. Everybody has the right for autonomy and their definition of autonomy.

 

yes, that's true, but relationships are also about compromise. If your ideals of autonomy aren't compatible with your partner's and you still want to be together then you have to compromise. Not telling exs about your new relationship is not about automony, it's about pretending you are still single and available, and if that's the case you probably shouldn't be in a relationship in the first place!

[birdie]

yes, that's true, but relationships are also about compromise. If your ideals of autonomy aren't compatible with your partner's and you still want to be together then you have to compromise. Not telling exs about your new relationship is not about automony, it's about pretending you are still single and available, and if that's the case you probably shouldn't be in a relationship in the first place!

 

No, the point is that it's YOUR interpretation of the situation. People have all sorts of relationships with their exes. (using the word 'relationship' loosely)

 

But I agree, if views are too different and compromise is not possible then should find somebody who is along the same tracks

[oppath]

From my situation,

 

an ex flying into town to see my gf, picking her up at 8am, hanging out with her all day, and spending the night at her house when he doesn't even know she is in a relationship, let alone her not telling me this happened, is deceitful. It's called lying to both people.

 

These boundaries are actually very liberal and were written in response to other peoples threads on ex's in the picture, etc. It's basically stating "if someone is into me, these things will be automatic, and it is how I treat people." Moreover, failing to disclose information to your SO that could allow them to make a decision about their relationship, about their life, is abusive.

 

Autonomy? I'm the most autonomous person there is. Any woman I date is going to have her friends, her life, and her space, just as I am going to have mine. But what I've learned is that if someone isn't making me visible, then they aren't the person for me or they aren't ready for a relationship. It isn't about making your new bf/gf the center of your universe, it's not about giving up your life or who you are, it's more simple: if you claim someone is a priority in your life, you do need to act like it, because if you aren't disclosing information that could allow them to make decisions, you are essentially manipulating and deceiving them and not allowing them all the information needed for them to make a choice.

 

None of the things I listed are controlling demands. I am extremely flexible. I don't give a **** if you hang out with the ex, talk to him once a week, etc. But I do care if you claim to be committed to me, if you are telling me you love me, and your ex is sleeping at your house and he doesn't even know you have a boyfriend and you don't tell me about it.

 

So many posts about cheating and jealousy and ex's deal with these issues, but in good, healthy relationships, everything I listed above for the most part happens naturally. I would never say to a woman "you have to introduce me to your friends or I won't be your bf." That is crazy. But if I am a girls boyfriend, as in her asking me "will you be my boyfriend," and we've dated several months after that and I still haven't met some of her close friends, then despite her saying "I think you are the guy I am going to marry" bottom line is, she doesn't really value me in her life as much as she claims. The boundaries I listed are more things to be aware of as your relationship progresses, not DEMANDS and not CONTROLS.

 

Of course, I can see how what I wrote can be viewed as controls and demands. What I mean more appropriately, is that as your relationship advances, if the above things aren't happening, then perhaps you need to look for another partner, because if they aren't happening, then the person likely doesn't value you all that much.

[oppath]

A partner who's excited and happy about being with you, tells everyone and can't get the silly grin off their face. If you have to set rules like that, then you already know they're not into you enough.

 

Exactly. These aren't rules or demands to give to the woman I am dating, they are things to watch out for to make sure someone's actions MATCH their words.

 

If someone isn't doing these things as we continue to date and we've agreed not to date others, then that is a big warning sign...this person is not the person for you if you are looking for a long term and serious relationship. I know if I'm dating someone I really like, I do the above things without thinking about it.

[oppath]

I agree 100%. Everybody should be allowed to decide how much they want to share with you and how much they want to let you in in their lives. Everybody has the right for autonomy and their definition of autonomy.

 

Yes, and no. You should always disclose information that could allow the person you claim to be committed to indefinitely (which is what I view the definition of bf/gf to be, an indefinite commitment that does not mean forever) to make a decision about his/her life. Small things such as what you ate for lunch aren't a big deal. Other things, such as there is a chance you will be transferred out of state for work in 2 months, or "my ex boyfriend proposed to me last night" need to be disclosed, because that is information is essential for your partner to make an informed decision about the relationship, about their own life.

 

Failing to disclose that information means you are lying by omission about who you are and what is going on in your life to paint a different picture of you. You are in a relationship where you are pretending to be someone you are not, and that is manipulative.

[Curmudgeon]

If someone isn't doing these things as we continue to date and we've agreed not to date others, then that is a big warning sign...this person is not the person for you if you are looking for a long term and serious relationship. I know if I'm dating someone I really like, I do the above things without thinking about it.

 

And I know if I'm dating someone I really like I've gotten to know them well enough beforehand to have gauged their relationships with or ties to others first, before I ever ask them out.

[Curmudgeon]

That's the thing though. in the uk it's not common to do the whole "dating" thing where you would be seeing more than one person at the same time looking for a potential relationship with either of them.

 

Guess I just believe in really getting to know the person before I ask them out.

 

Is that strange?

[Curmudgeon]

But I agree, if views are too different and compromise is not possible then should find somebody who is along the same tracks

 

Isn't that something that should have been sorted out before the first date?

[norajane]

Guess I just believe in really getting to know the person before I ask them out.

 

Is that strange?

 

Most people don't have an opportunity to get to know each other unless they date. Society isn't as close as it used to be. If you meet someone at a party, or some work function, but you do not see them on a regular basis, you aren't going to get to know each other unless you specifically make plans to go out together...that's what dating is...

[rumours83]

Isn't that something that should have been sorted out before the first date?

 

I think you are getting off track here, you should start a new thread about early stages of dating. Most of the repsonses on here actually agree with what oppath said - you actually mentioned a "dealbreaker" with your ex, which means the ex overstepped a boundary, so i am not sure how you can say that you don't believe in them. It is kind of sad that oppath has to actually state his boundaries, they are not anything out of the ordinary for what defines most romantic relationships (all the things he mentioned are assumptions that i would enter into a relationship with anyway). If you actually read what he wrote would you tolerate any of the behaviour of his gf listed? She is obviously up to no good running around with an ex who doesn't even know she is in a current relationship. It's not like oppath is saying that she should never have any contact with any men ever again, which would be controlling - he just wants respect in his relationship. I wouldn't tolerate that behaviour out of self respect for myslef, it's nothing to do with trying to control the other person. I would speak to the girlfriend and ask her to change her disrespectful behaviour, and if she didn't I would dump her as she obviously isn't ready for a committed relationship, and had no respect for me or my feelings.

[birdie]

I think it is a shame when people have very rigid opinions about what is right and what is wrong and how another person should behave. It is a great shame if you feel you have to micromanage your partner (wife, gf, whoever) how to behave because you feel you can't trust them if they don't follow your strict guidelines.

 

Your fears and anxieties are ultimately about you and not the other person. If you feel you have to define your partner's relationship with other people so strictly then maybe you should look into yourself to see why you are so insecure.

 

Of course we all have boundaries and want respect and we want the other person to actively show us that we count in their lives and that they put us first most of the time.

 

However, they have a right for their privacy, they have the right to put someone else first occasionally and they are their own persons and I think there is a very fine balance between asking for consideration and being controlling.

[birdie]

Isn't that something that should have been sorted out before the first date?

 

apart from the fact that it's great to date someone you don't know well, I don't believe you get to know someone really well unless you get close to them.

[rumours83]

I think it is a shame when people have very rigid opinions about what is right and what is wrong and how another person should behave. It is a great shame if you feel you have to micromanage your partner (wife, gf, whoever) how to behave because you feel you can't trust them if they don't follow your strict guidelines.

 

Your fears and anxieties are ultimately about you and not the other person. If you feel you have to define your partner's relationship with other people so strictly then maybe you should look into yourself to see why you are so insecure.

 

Of course we all have boundaries and want respect and we want the other person to actively show us that we count in their lives and that they put us first most of the time.

 

However, they have a right for their privacy, they have the right to put someone else first occasionally and they are their own persons and I think there is a very fine balance between asking for consideration and being controlling.

 

But it shouldn't be the case that the feelings of an ex are prioritised over a current relationship. My other half is quite happy with the boundaries in place because he also believes in them! We are getting married in two weeks time, and we both have strong feelings about the "forsaking all others". We both confident people and trust each other, we both have loads of friends including the opposite sex, and i spend a lot of time on business trips and trust him completely, as he trusts me. There is no way he is being controlled!

 

The thing about fears and anxieties is naive, as not all jealousy is irrational, there's loads of research about that says if a spouse suspects an affair, 80% of the time they are right. His jealousy doesn't sound like he is irrational and trying to control all his gf's relationships, if she is happy in her current relationship then what's the problem about informing her ex about it? that seems a reasonable enough request.

 

Oppath clearly isn't happy with the gf's behaviour and the best thing to do would be to speak to the gf about his fears about her running around with an ex. Oppath's feelings of hurt at this behaviour should take priority over whether the ex will get upset now that the gf has a new relationship, if the gf is really interested in maintaining the relationship. She should also explain more about this relationship with her ex. I spoke to my partner about an ex that was constantly contacting him, because she was in denial about the fact that he was in a relationship with me, even though he constantly told her he was getting married, she wanted their friendship/relationship to be exclusive, which is just a bit too close to a romantic relationship for my liking. He wasn't encouraging her behaviour, but by responding to her she was only seeing a green flag to continue. He agreed that even though he wasn't doing anything wrong (which I never accused him of either), it could be seen as a bit disrespectful towards me (she thought it was causing problems between us, and getting a kick out of it) so chose to end contact with her, all it took was having a short discussion about the situation and yes i did ask him not to contact her but that was his decision. I think when people talk about trust it is very naive, I wouldn't 100% trust someone in a new relationship at first. Trust, like respect, has to be earnt. I stated to my other half what i thought you constitute a betrayal to our marriage, as did he. As neither of us disagreed on the boundaries we each set, then its unlikely that they will be crossed, and if they are the consequence is we part.

[birdie]

sure not all jealousy is unfounded but I'd be very surprised if it was possible to quantify it and say 80% of the time is justified. I think it's impossible to measure how often somebody has a jealous thought and how often their partner actually cheats on them. there are people that are more insecure than others for starters. 80% sounds way too high

 

but that's not the main point. I absolutely agree that you should forsake others and have a completely exclusive and committed relationship - especially in a marriage.

 

sure some exes can be a bit of a pain and I'd imagine women are worse than men. ie female exes get more jealous, emotional than male ones.

 

I keep in touch with all of them to some degree because they are part of my life, they partly created who I am and I loved them in the past - although I have no desire to be in a relationship with any of them, as there is a reason why they are my exes.

 

I would not have anyone telling me not to talk to them anymore though. One of them I lived with for 8 years, we were there for each other through thick and thin, he was the first person in my life (I was quite young when we met, only 20) who believed that I could achieve things and actively pushed and encouraged me to get my university education and to move to better and greater things. he was more supportive than my own family ever and there is absolutely no way I will ever walk away from that. we are not together for several reasons and in the end we couldn't make it work but I don't use and discard people once they stopped serving their purpose in my life.

 

I expect a person I'm with to understand that and to be honest, I've had no problems so far. I have absolutely no issues with partners keeping in touch with exes, catching up with them, etc. I have a positive attitude to trust and respect, they are there first, a person has to do something first before I withdraw them - not the other way around.

[oppath]

I would not have anyone telling me not to talk to them anymore though.

 

I expect a person I'm with to understand that and to be honest, I've had no problems so far. I have absolutely no issues with partners keeping in touch with exes, catching up with them, etc. I have a positive attitude to trust and respect, they are there first, a person has to do something first before I withdraw them - not the other way around.

 

First, this was an ex girlfriend. I have a new girlfriend and she understands these boundaries and agrees with them.

 

I never had problems with my last gf keeping in touch with her ex. I welcomed it. Why kick out someone out of your life who was once important? That is not the issue. You can be friends with your ex's and even meet up with them. However, if you are meeting an ex, and that is a recent ex, and that ex still wants to be together, and he asks "are you dating anyone" and you say "no" not to hurt his feelings...well, my last gf was dishonest to her ex, and lied about my existence. That IS a big deal.

 

My new gf I would trust to meet briefly with her most recent ex, let's say for coffee. But not for dinner. And if she's telling me she loves me, absolutely, I will ask "does he know about me?" If I have a girlfriend, she shouldn't be accepting 1-on-1 "dates" with any male who does not have strictly platonic or business intentions. And if you can't tell an ex about your new boyfriend because it would hurt his feelings, then that means the relationship, at least on one end, is not strictly platonic.

 

My boundaries are VERY liberal. I let my ex go to a football game with a guy she met at her birthday party (one I wasn't there for because I was out of state visiting family over the holidays). I didn't have a problem with that as she is a huge fan. But if she wasn't paying her share of the ticket, then from a dude's perspective, it was a date!

 

If my gf will lie to important people in my life about my existence so things aren't uncomfortable with her ex, then it means she may lie to me too and not disclose important information.

 

I would never tell a gf she can't talk to an ex. I would never tell her she can't go out with coworkers or guy friends. But if she's gone out with guy friends a handful of times, or talks to her ex 3 times a week and meets up with him for dinners, and none of these people know she is in a relationship, then NO WAY!

 

Birdie, if you were meeting boys at a bar, and they were to ask "do you have boyfriend," and you do, is it ok to say "no?" You seem to say it is ok. It is not. Being in a relationship means being authentic, it means you are who you claim to be to your partner, and that means disclosing his/her existence to the important people in your life (and rational threats) and making their feelings a priority.

 

My ex's ex proposed to her shortly before our breakup. She didn't tell me about ti. She accepted gifts from me after it happened. We got in a big fight because she was acting distant...distant because she was hiding something and I picked up on it. Privacy does not include withholding information that could allow someone you are close to from making decisions about his/her life. It didn't make me jealous controlling or possessive to want my gf to tell her ex "I have a boyfriend" especially when he'd ask "are you dating someone" and I knew, and she knew, he still wanted her back. He was a threat. A rational one. I didn't ask for her not to talk to him, I only wanted my existence revealed.

 

And quite honestly, if I had a new girlfriend, if I were to be hanging out with an ex, if my new girl wanted to meet the old, I'd ask the old, and if it were uncomfortable with her I would say "then it's too soon for us to be friends if it is awkward, and I want to be fair to my new gf."

 

But this is WAY OFF TOPIC...the point is, if someone doesn't make you feel visible, if they lie about your existence, if they aren't sharing their life with you...yet they claim to love you...really, they are painting a picture that they are available and ready for a relationship when really, they are not.