Wife leaving in 3 weeks - devastated!

[geluse]

STATS:

I'm 38. My wife is 38. We've been happily married for 12 years. We have 2 beautiful boys (6 and 8).

 

My wife is going through what she thinks is a mid life crisis. She's been depressed, seeing a therapist and taking Zoloft. We've have a good life and marriage together but there have been some challenges within the last 2 years.

 

She had an emotional affair that included some kissing 2 years ago. We got through that with some difficulty. Since then, we've had ups and downs. She is beautiful and very focused on her appearance. I think she is feeling like age is catching up to her. She (admittedly) is living a social life of a single person. She goes out with her single and divorced girlfriends at least once a week and stays out late - sometimes 4 or 5 am. I'm not happy with it but not allowing her to have freedom wouldn't help our relationship either. She is very responsible and is not cheating but she can't seem to grow up and has told me "something is missing" and she doesn't feel content but doesn't know why.

 

So, she's decided to move out. She never lived on her own. Went from her parent's house in with me when married. She wants to try living independently and decide where she belongs - married or single. She continues to tell me that this is her problem. She says (and I agree) that I've been a model husband. I've kept in shape, I make a good living, I'm a good father etc. I'm having so much trouble controlling my feelings of resentment and keeping a positive outlook on this separation helping our marriage. She says she wants to feel content in marriage but I can't see how this strategy can help.

 

The kicker is that she feels she needs complete independence which includes her ability to date others in order for her decide where she needs to be. I'm having more trouble than you can imaging handling this. She admits its a serious issue but she feels she needs it. The thought of someone else touching my wife is unbearable. I don't think I can reconcile after she's had another relationship. How can I keep a positive outlook, not be jealous and not harbor resentment through this? The more sad I become, the less desirable I am and the less likely she'll come enthusiastically back to me. She moves out in 3 weeks and for the first time in our marriage, we are fighting about something every day. She says I obsessed about this dating issue. She's right, I don't want my wife dating - am I wrong?

[quankanne]

sounds like a cop-out to me, her wanting to date others while checking to see if she wants to be married to you. At this point, the healthy thing to do would be to seek joint counselling or go on a Marriage Encounter weekend, something where you guys try to focus on the problems and make your marriage work. Sounds like she's taking advantage of your good nature by coming up with this set of gameplans. She needs to sh•t or get off the pot (focus on making the marriage work or getting a divorce), not play these games. As Tony and some of the others on this board have pointed out time and again, when someone wants a 'trial separation,' that relationship is already over.

[Just A Girl2]

Dear Geluse,

 

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear this. From what you've written, you sound like a very together, wise, good (but hurting) husband. My heart goes out to you and your situation. I feel sorry for your children, too.

 

It's really mind-boggling, you wife's inability to understand that you are going to have a problem with her dating. DUH! And no, you're definitely not at all wrong for feeling like you do. Call me old fashioned, but when you're married to someone, you don't go dating others. Period.

 

I'm 35, and have dated a few guys who were in a similar situation to yours.....for them, it mostly started with their wife gaining a lot of single and divorced female friends.....the frequent "girls night out" outings....I guess these wives ended up getting a taste of "the fun life" and it somehow seemed much more appealing than married life. Sorry, but I think it's rotten and selfish...and a lot about "self gratification." It's even worse, in my mind, when there are children in the marriage. What kind of role model is this woman? What kind of example is she setting for her children.....that marriage is something you can "take a break from"? That the single life is more important than keeping your family and marriage together?

 

Single friends and resentful divorced women can be very influential, even if they're not trying to be. Add to the mix, a woman who's "searching for something in her life/within herself" and the single life seems like the magic answer.

 

Does your wife have any good MARRIED women friends? Is her family (parents, or siblings) aware of her plans here? If so, have they tried to sit down and talk with her?

 

Where will the children be in all of this? Will they remain with you pretty much full time, so that she can be out galavanting and having her 'single life'? She's obviously put her own needs way before her children's. How are they going to feel when Mommy moves out? Will, as children often do, wonder if she did so "because of them"? (you know how kids can think) Has she sat down yet and told them of her plans?

 

Are you expected to be supporting her at all while she's off having fun? Or is she going to support herself totally? (sorry, but if I were you, I would not give her one red cent for anything. She made this choice, she wants to be independent, along with that comes supporting herself fully).

 

I think it was quankanne who made the suggestion of a "Marriage Encounter Weekend." Even though I've never been to one (um, when I was married, briefly), I grew up Catholic and our church always had them. My parents went to one, and most couples in their church.....plus the Lutheran, Episcopalian and Anglican churches. They're fantastic, and really help to bring a married couple together....to reignite the spark, open lines of communication again. Here is a link from the Marriage Encounter Weekend website:

 

Click here/ Marriage Encounter Weekend Info

 

You'll be able to see here, when the nearest and next one is. Not sure if your wife would be open to it or not. I don't think a couple has to officially belong to an actual church/denomination....and it's not like some cult-like "talk about God all weekend" thing.....but yes, they do bring up the importance of God being a key part in a couple's marriage...so if that kind of stuff offends ya, well, just lettin' ya know. It's NOT a weekend where they try to 'convert' non-believers or anything, not a revival LOL It's really geared toward married couples learning to communicate better, becoming closer, working through things they've not been able to, etc. It will explain more on their site. It's highly recommended.

 

Now for you......I'm sure you're extremely busy and have a lot on your mind....but my advice to you would be for you to find yourself a counsellor, even one that does marriage counselling.....just for you alone. Look in the yellow pages of your phonebook under "Counsellors" or "Counselling" .....and each listing should specify which type of counselling they do. I think it's really important for YOU, to have someone to talk to about all of this, even before she leaves. Remember, counselling is anonymous, they will never divulge anything you disclose to them during your sessions.

 

You might also want to consider speaking with a minister or pastor or priest. Even if you don't go to church now and are not affiliated with any church. Once when I was engaged to a dingdong, I was beside myself with hurt because I found out a lot of lies he'd told me, and a bunch of other crap, and I ended things...but was still devastated. I went into the nearest church and asked if there was someone I could speak with. The pastor there met with me a couple of times, and it was great to have someone (I didn't know!) to unload on. I mostly just talked and cried a lot, but it was good to get it all out. It didn't matter that I wasn't Baptist, or that I'd never gone to that church before. I think any church would be there for ya. Might stay away from the Catholic church, though..I say that only due to my personal belief that if a Priest isn't married, how can he really understand the trials of marriage? I'd prefer to see someone who's married......even pastors and ministers have ups and downs in their marriage, ya know?

 

Do YOU have any support systems? CLose friends? Family? I hope you have someone to talk to, who knows you both.....who can listen to you vent and unload.

 

Post here anytime, as often as you need to. There's lots of very wise, compassionate folks here, many who've likely been in your shoes.

 

Hugs

JAG

[geluse]

Thanks for the responses so far...

 

Just to address a couple of questions that came up.

 

My wife and I are seeing individual counsellers currently. We went to couples counselling 2 years ago and again last month. This most recent counselling resulted in the woman saying there wasn't much she could help with since my wife and I don't have any "relationship" problems. That is, we don't fight (until this week), we communicate pretty well, we have an active sex life etc. So, the counseller suggested I see her individually. That's where I'm at now. I guess its helping but she suggested I don't try to hide my resentment about the upcoming separation and that's made it very tough at home. I'm not sure about that strategy. Its driving my wife away and I'm still clinging to hope.

 

The other point that was raised concerns my wife's selfishness. She is being selfish but she is very upset by this. She says she realizes how her moving out will impact the kids big time and everything else in our lives. But, she doesn't know what else to do. Sucking it up and staying while not feeling content won't help in the long run. I think she realizes the risk she's taking but her mind seems to be made up.

 

The kids will stay with me - primarily. I have a great relationship with them. They are my best friends. I'll do my best to keep everything normal and happy - saving my crying for after their bedtime!

 

I'll look into the marriage weekend thing but my wife insists, the problem is all her and its about her "growing up" and wanting to be in this relationship. I know I haven't been perfect but she hasn't really been able to identify anything for me to change.

 

I guess the bottom line is that I think she is making a huge mistake. I think she will eventually realize it and come back. But, I'm a monogamous and jealous person. She is outgoing and vulnerable. I'm afraid she will date soon after the separation and I won't be willing to reconcile. What a silly reason for a 12 year marriage to end - ugh.

[Just A Girl2]

I'm glad you're seeing a counsellor on your own, good for you.

 

I surely don't mean to upset you, but do you think there's a possibility that part of her insistence on moving out on her own is perhaps due to her having already met someone? I ask this because on one hand, she feels badly about what this will do to the kids, but she feels she just has to do it. Often, having "someone waiting in the wings" makes a tough decision like this easier. Know what I mean?

 

And WHO was it that brought up the issue of her dating? Was it you or her? That kind of floors me. She's hitting you with a lightening bolt here, wanting to move out after 12 yrs of marriage, but she's had the nerve to inform you that she plans to date? What exactly does dating have to do with "growing up"? What exactly does dating have to do with her wanting to get out and experience independence that she apparently never really had? (moving out of parents house years ago, to you).

 

If she were doing this solely, and sincerely to experience independence and to prove to herself that she can survive on her own, and 'find herself', okay ......troubling, but more understandable than this crap about how she plans to date other people. What exactly is that supposed to prove? How does being married yet dating around help her grow as a person? (which I'm assuming this plan to move out is somehow based on)

 

I'm sure you've asked yourself these same questions.

 

So again, who first brought up this issue of dating? If it was her, then I'd be suspicious as to whether she's already got someone in mind to start dating. Have you come right out, face to face, eye to eye and asked her if she's got anyone in mind that she's interested in dating? If not, I'd ask her. I could be way off base here, (I often am) but based on what you've explained, I think it might be possible that she's maybe met someone, and wants to pursue it, under the thinly veiled guise of "needing to move out and have some time to herself."

 

If I were in your shoes, I would have a very hard time NOT informing her that if she plans on dating other people, that your marriage is going to be over, because you went into this marriage expecting, and giving, monogamy, and you'll not compromise your principles and beliefs. Personally, in today's age, with all the diseases out there, and HIV, it's risky business, this sleeping with other people thing. Course I'm sure you already know that.

 

I'm sorry but I don't buy this line of hers, that she knows she's being selfish but doesn't see any other way. Running away from your marriage to live on your own, and date other people, is foolish and hurtful to one's spouse and children. I think if she was really sincerely determined to get to the root of why she feels the way she does, she'd seek alternative ways of dealing with things........intensive counselling, maybe taking a couple weeks to get away with YOU, self help books, therapy, etc. It seems like she's just choosing the easy way out........possibly believing that after 12 yrs of marriage, you'll end up taking her back in the end, when she realizes the grass isn't that green on the other side.

 

I don't know what your counsellor advises you, but it makes me angry when I read of situations like this, my heart goes out to the spouse who's left in the lurch, in limbo. My gut says to tell you that you should make it very clear to her that this kind of behavior is not appropriate, that marriage is a lifetime commitment and not an arrangement where you can p*ss off and take a break and date other people....and that if she chooses this path, then the marriage is over and you will not be sitting there waiting for her, that you will go on with your life and you will not take her back. She needs to know there are consequences for one's actions.......I think you need to inform her of these consequences now, before she leaves. And then stick to your guns, if that's what you decide.

[geluse]

[color=red]>I surely don't mean to upset you, but do you think there's a

>possibility that part of her insistence on moving out on her own

>is perhaps due to her having already met someone? [/color]

 

I don't think so. In fact I'm 99% sure. She says she loves and respects me and wants to be completely upfront with her feelings this time. I mentioned that 2 years ago, she had a brief emotional relationship that I found out about behind her back. Her upfront approach this time is a result of that situation. She says (and I believe her) that it would be easier if there were someone else. If that were so, she would just admit it and go.

 

[color=red]>And WHO was it that brought up the issue of her dating? [/color]

 

She's reading a book about Controlled Separation where the troubled couple signs a"contract" and agrees to the boundaries of a separation. She said she wants to try it and thinks it can help us. I immediately asked if separation includes dating. So, I brought it up. Ever since, she's been very defensive on the topic saying that dating is not the most important issue here. She needs to "find herself" first.

 

[color=red]>If she were doing this solely, and sincerely to experience

>independence and to prove to herself that she can survive on her

> own, and 'find herself', okay ......troubling, but more

>understandable than this crap about how she plans to date other

> people. What exactly is that supposed to prove? How does

>being married yet dating around help her grow as a person?

>(which I'm assuming this plan to move out is somehow based on)[/color]

 

I've been like a broken record on this subject. Although I'm sure my jealousy and insecurity will make me want to date others defensively, I agreed not to date for the separation. She cannot commit to it. Saying, she needs this option to determine whether the single life style is the right one for her. Its disturbing. I've always dated for the purpose of forming a relationship. She dated for sport and to make her feel good. I guess I cannot provide the excitement that a new person can. Pretty short-sighted of her.

 

[color=red]>If I were in your shoes, I would have a very hard time NOT

>informing her that if she plans on dating other people, that your

>marriage is going to be over. I think you need to inform her of

>these consequences now, before she leaves. And then stick to

>your guns, if that's what you decide.[/color]

 

I've done this exact thing. I told her, I cannot stop her from dating. But, if she chooses to, we're through. She just snaps saying "You don't want this to work". I'm sick of feeling bad about asking my wife not to date.

 

Thanks for your replies. Its nice to know someone understands my feelings about this. I just wish I could stop thinking about this dating issue. She keeps saying it may never happen. She hasn't really thought about it yet but she thinks she needs the option open.

[quankanne]

JAG, you've taken the words right out of my mouth ...

 

an additional thought: if you have a counsellor telling you that she can't help you because the two of you don't have "any relationship problems," you need to dump her butt fast, and find someone with a better idea of how to help couples. Problems don't have to be blatant in order to exist, you know? Individual counselling is probably the best way you can invest your time to help you go through this in a "better" way, but whether or not your wife likes it, you guys need couples counselling. The Catholic church offers something called a Retrouvaille weekend for troubled marriages, basically like an ME weekend, but with more focus on healing the relationship, whereas Marriage Encounter is more a way to help you rediscover why you picked this person to spend the rest of your life with in the first place. Also, JAG suggests you might not feel comfortable talking to an unmarried cleric, but there are married deacons in the Catholic church, and often these are the guys in charge of the family life office or department of a church or diocese, if you're comfortable with that. Anywhich way you go, the two of you would benefit from joint counselling.

 

An additional thought: if in this "controlled separation," she gets to "find herself" -- even if it means dating other guys and forming physical relationships with them, does this mean that you get to do the same thing? Or does she expect you to just sit and jealously wait for her to figure out what she wants from life, then take up as if nothing happened when she's ready? Sounds like she's testing you as much as she is "trying to find herself."

[Just A Girl2]

Hopefully Tony and others will join in here, there are definitely people here with great insights and wisdom on these kinds of situations.

 

You wrote:

 

I've done this exact thing. I told her, I cannot stop her from dating. But, if she chooses to, we're through. She just snaps saying "You don't want this to work". I'm sick of feeling bad about asking my wife not to date.

 

Hmmm. That's an interesting response she gives. I find it very ?suspicious/unbelievable, the fact that she can't seem to understand why you'd have a problem with her dating. Heck, it seems only human nature to me, that when you're in a sincerely committed relationship with someone, like a marriage (and have the years of history that you 2 have), that the idea of your spouse (separated or not) dating is a hard pill to swallow. Wonder how she'd feel if the shoe were on the other foot? (course if you asked her, she'd like just tell you that if it's what you felt you needed to do, she'd support it. Hmm)

 

This book she's got, "Controlled Separation"....have you had a gander through it? If not, I definitely would...to see what kinds of things they advocate in there. Who's it written by? A marriage counsellor? Joe Blow off the streets who's trying to make a buck? What kind of background does the author have? And is the content unbiased, or from the point of view that separations during a marriage are a "good thing", perhaps advocating discontent spouses to 'get out there and have some fun'? I'd check it out, see if there are any reviews of it online. Do you know the name of the author?

 

Do you happen to know any of her single/divorced friends? Would you say they've been a bad influence on her? Do you think they've possibly been encouraging her to do this, so that she can "come on over to their side"? (so to speak)

 

I think back to my marriage....my (now ex) husband had a lot of single guy friends.....most treated their past women like sh*t and as a result, they all had large chips on their shoulders regarding women in general.....viewed women as nothing more than things to sleep with, use and take advantage of (totally unable to admit their faults, these guys). They were always asking my husband out for the "boys night out" things......I sensed that they wanted him back as the single, partying, carefree guy that he was before he got married. I strongly suspect they did nothing to encourage him to get his sh*t together and put effort into our marriage...in fact, I'd bet the farm on the fact that they did everything they could to encourage him to stay single. Friends can be very influential, particularly to someone who's searching for something.

 

I ended up having my ex hubby charged with assault, almost a year after we married.....and you can bet this his friends did nothing but poison his mind about what a horrible wife I was for having done that........versus confronting him for what he'd been doing to me and encouraging him to get his act together. His friends had a lot of pull, and in the end, he chose them over me.....and what they 'thought of him' mattered more than anything. He didnt' want to appear weak, or pussywhipped.

 

Anyway, you might consider talking to an attorney about all this. You describe your wife as a good woman, but who knows what's really making her tick now. You have to ensure that your assets are protected, in case things turn worse. Will she still have access to joint credit cards and a joint checking/savings acct while out on her own? Don't ever assume that she would never screw you financially...that's how so many spouses end up hooped...too much trust.

 

Is she going to fully support herself while on her own? If I were you, again, I'd not help her financially at all. This one is her baby. Can she support herself?

[geluse]

I think the reason I keep harping on the dating issue and driving her crazy talking about it is is that she hasn't given me the satisfaction that she realizes its a huge issue. If she said to me "I realize this could destroy are marriage, but its the only way I'll know for sure what I want". Perhaps I'd suck it up and let it go. Her books and therapist are telling her she needs to solve her problems and needs to stop worrying about everyone else for a while. Well, she's taken that advice to heart.

 

The book is Should I Stay Or Go? : How Controlled Separation (CS) Can Save Your Marriage by Lee Raffel, Jean Houston. Its definitely a legitimate book. I've read sections of it and I understand how it could help some marriages - just not ours. The case studies in the book are mostly couples at odds with each other who BOTH want out and decide to try this as a last resort. We are not experiencing the "couples" problems that are in this book. "We" don't want a separation - she [thinks she] does.

 

Finally, on the subject of her friends. I know them and I think they are very fond of me. My wife tells me that the few friends that know she's going through a crisis tell her "You've got a great husband and life" and "The grass is definitely NOT greener". So, I don't think her friends are drawing her out of the marriage.

 

She is definitely very confused and [i think] on the verge of ruining several lives. I wish I had a good alternative strategy to suggest a way for her (and us) to get by this crisis without destroying the marriage.

[quankanne]

I am looking at excerpts of this book on Amazon.com, and frankly think this is kind of scary. Why? Because it takes the "us" approach out of finding a solution to heal a problematic marriage and instead focuses on the "I." While no relationship should zap a person of his or her identity, that relationship is still a viable entity and should be treated as preciously as you would the individuals involved.

 

I don't think I care for the author's "flash of insight" (a couple she was counselling had a deteriorating relationship, but "neither party would sit still for marital therapy," she says, thus she concocted this cockamamie approach toward "healing" their relationship -- all because they told HER to find a solution to fix THEIR marriage.)

 

CS, she says, is radically different from a trial separation, because it has "guidelines" (or rules and regs) that the couple agrees on, thus allowing each person a chance to regain control of themselves and their lives as they try to figure out what to do about the problems in their marriage. So she claims.

 

excuse me???! I guess the Marriage Encounter I did a couple of years ago described what a lot of couples go through: you love each other and you love being married, but basically you chose to pursue a singles lifestyle (putting your own needs ahead of that of the couple's needs), being what they called "married singles." Which, if you let it get out of hand, can be the death knell for any marriage, and sounds EXACTLY like what this therapist/author is promoting. Just how the hell is a "married singles" lifestyle going to heal a problematic marriage? Rewriting the rules to make one partner happy while the other is unhappy with what is compromised is a good thing? There's actually room for that in a viable marriage?

 

sorry, geluse, but that kind of mind twisting just makes me see red, and I'm sorry to see that your wife is buying into this crap. Only serious marriage counselling (JOINT counselling) is going to be of benefit, not listening to some dumb-butt advise one person to chase after rainbows while expecting the other to deal with the flood damage from the storm that created the rainbow.

 

Try to find another marriage counsellor, someone who can actually help, instead of telling you that you don't "have any relationship problems." If your wife is really and truly serious about bringing about healing, she'll agree to joint counselling even as she tries to figure out what makes her happy.

 

And good luck with all of this -- I know this is probably more than a little bit surreal, but just hang in there and stay true to your convictions about marriage.

 

jo anne

[PamelaMcCoy]

Your wife asks WAY TOO MUCH of you. If she wants to date other people, she should just have the balls to completely separate. That way, there is no gray area.

[newbie000]

You asked for an alternative, here's three weird ones.

 

First, sounds to me like everybody's posts are correct. It could be a long painful time for a resolution because she's determined.

 

She's bummed about everything you guys said.. and feels she has run out of time.

She's did before, and is now having an affair (just kissing? out w/ gfriends? 5 AM ?)

Probably bed = boring with you

It sounds like a plain ordinary affair.

I think that affairs for romance take much longer to cycle through than affairs for sex.

No big deal as long as nobody (you) finds out.

 

Here's the problem, her responsibilities: you and the kids = tough decision.

 

Well, a guys gotta do what a guys gotta do... basically she is following her dick, problem is how long will it take... 6 months , 1 yr, 3 yr, 5yr, 10 yr? nobody knows... but she's gotta get the monkey off her shoulder for her ever to be whole.

 

This is much too long and uncertain for your family.

 

If its primarily for sex then an alternative is she go to some holiday resort... out of the country.. and screw as many guys as she can.. call it the Twilite Zone like it never happened. And not to return until she is ready.

OR

If its primarily for romance, tell her she has to see the guy 3 times / week, 4 times / month (esp. week 4) for max 12 mths whereby you divorse and she marries the bf. how long can this last before the bf can't handle her anymore and cuts her loose.

 

OR

The two of you go to the Twilite Zone ... on a swapping vacation out of the country and party your faces off until she's had enough. If you don't have violent tendencies, then just drink a lot and make sure you have a good time. If you can't pick up girls then pay for some quality fun and make her pay half.

 

If you can do 12 years and 2 good kids, then you are good for the distance.

 

Also, it is imperative that you write the whole thing off as the Twilite Zone / fantasy.

If you can't handle it or won't be able to get over it then you should go back to the old ways posted above.

 

Possible Problems:

- she wants to do it every year

- she will blab it to her friends who will blab to everybody.

- she won't come back.