Why I believe God exists......

[nittygritty]

Isn't it funny how both sides of a debate accuse the other of extreme bias and prejudice, while their own camp is perfectly objective and rational.

 

You gotta love that.

 

In response to nittygritty, however, it bears pointing out that the creationists are the more likely by far to be biased in their findings. Ignoring the litany of outright lies, hoaxes and dishonest quote-mining they engage in, their position necessitates it.

 

All good science works on drawing conclusions from evidence and observation. Creationism starts with the conclusion (the book of Genesis) and works backwards, seeking observations or evidence to support this preconceived involiable conclusion and dismisses everything else. It's the very opposite of science. Tell me where I'm wrong.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

 

I believe in God the creator but I don't agree with the "Creationism Theory" that is misrepresenting all those that believe in God as the creator as agreeing to their literal interpretations of biblical scripture, fundamentalist views.

 

I am not a scientist nor a religious scholar but I can read and see the evidence in scripture of observed religious practices that are now known as scientific applications and rather than give credit where credit is due, it is trying to be dismissed by those with dogmatic views, in the name of science.

 

It is the dogmatic views of both sides that give both sides a bad rap and regardless of which side of the fence your on, everyone has different views.

[nittygritty]

Perhaps a small percentage of these types may have that agenda, but I assure you that for the most part you are incorrect. I have no interest in trying to disprove god because of hatred or some underlying cause, it's just that many of us are realizing these ancient traditions may be completely wrong. It's easier to take the side of religion because it's what many of us are brought up on, god and religion both have become an integral part of our lives.

 

We are all products of how we are raised, and changing our way of thinking is very hard to do. I agree many religious people are science driven, I think that is great. However; they keep trying to mesh religion with science which does not always work. Personally, I don't think people who believe in god(s) are invalid, I just think we have all been taught to believe something that may be fundamentally incorrect. It's part of our heritage to believe in something higher than us, nearly all races have some sort of god or spirit they turn to.

 

Honestly I wish god as we know it did exist, what a great universe it would be if all that was scripted was true. Just the way we look back on our ancestors for their archaic beliefs, I believe our descendants will look back on our beliefs and wonder what the hell we were thinking.

 

Cheers!

 

 

I understand what your saying but I think it is wrong to assume that because someone believes in God the creator and Christ that they do so because they don't know any better. That it is because of what they were taught, or that they have a need to fill a void, or out of desperation, or out of a need for hope, or out of fear, or any of the other incorrect assumptions I have read on this forum.

 

The religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs that I was taught or exposed to as a child are not the same religious beliefs that I have come to through my own spiritual journey.

 

It is hard to explain without sounding like some nut job but I will try. My earliest childhood memories include feeling a strong sense of God's presence in my life. I had a good childhood and no mental illness or neurosis (not documented anyway, ). God was just always there for me. Not as some sort of puppet master pulling strings or manipulating the outcome for me but as a heavenly father who listens and tries to guide me to make good choices and do the right thing. Of course, I don't always ask or listen but he understands and forgives me of my mistakes, my sins.

 

I'm not working with an outdated map. Nor do I think that my knowledge, experience or spiritual journey, have lead me to a less enlightened place because I believe in God's existance.

 

I get just as offended as most anyone else does when God is being portraited in a manner that makes him sound more like the Devil. I also find the absolute, matter of fact statements that "God does not exist" in the name of science to be offensive as well but it certainly does not change my beliefs in God's existance.

 

There are religious hospitals all over the world filled with people who believe in God and science. I don't think there is a need to keep God out of science nor do I think it can be done, that is my beliefs.

[nittygritty]

No, the Creation story is a myth, not a lie. And not everyone is a liar who believes that, it just seems that those who are most vocal do happen to be liars.

 

Look at AIG's website for the arguments they admit are no longer valid. Other Creationist sites (and Creationists themselves) still use them. Are they lying? Maybe, maybe not.

 

But, when someone is shown that their conclusion is incorrect and not evidence for what they say it is, they admit it, and then continue to repeat it he or she is LYING.

 

Why did the Dover school board Creationists feel the need to lie about their intentions--even to the point of lying in court? That is a matter of public record.

 

Why does god need people to lie for him? If a Creator was so obvious and there was so much evidence, why would lies be remotely necessary?

 

 

I listed them.

 

 

 

Anyone who is a Creationist is ignorant, yes. They may or may not belying about it.

 

Prominent Creationists are liars. I am sorry if that fact is troubling for you, but it is, in fact, true. Why would someone take the time to pour over biology books to find quotes that make it seem as if the author admits that evolution is a guess unless he is trying to mislead people? This happens time and again, and even after the authors in question point out the reality of what they wrote (usually by providing the complete quote or the preceeding or following paragraph) the Creationists still put themin their quote book.

 

Isn't that lying? If not, what is it then?

 

 

 

No, it proves that he isn't remotely aware of the work done about the human immune system, yet he made blanket assertions about it. The texts in question are the very basic ones, so anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the subject would have been familiar with them.

 

And the judge disagrees with you. Fine for you, but his opinion in this case is the one that mattered. ID bites the dust. Boo-hoo.

 

 

 

Who said they should be banned? I don't think anything should be banned, I just don't think they have a place in a biology classroom. Get the difference?

 

And I am sure there are lots of things that I disagree with atheists about. We agree on the fact that there is no god, but it stops there. Atheism is not dogmatic.

 

 

That is stupid on so many levels I can't believe it. They aren't banning a book, they are removing a religious book from a science class. If the above is true, then we should teach "Hamlet" in chemistry class. They restate the case made by the IDers, and think it makes sense somehow. it doesn't, thinking people know that, and the citizens of Dover do, too, as none of the Creationists are on the board anymore. Obviously they don't want their children taught religion in science class.

 

I will familiarize myself with that website, but my initial impression is that they are morons. As a conservative I cringe when I read things like that.

 

I also did not get the impression that the author was/is an atheist.

 

 

 

No, it's because Behe makes their biology department look substandard. They don't want anyone to think that they remotely agree with Behe. ANd I don't blame them.

 

Scientists have no problem changing theories in the face of new evidence. That is how science works. I amgetting the impression that you don't know that....

 

Also, the basics of the Theory of Evolution have been the same for 150 years or so. Just because crackpots don't know that or hate to admit it doesn't mean it isn't true. Since most people don't understand evolution or what a theory is, scientists have to be very clear about the reality of the matter.

 

 

 

Nope.

 

 

 

That is what Creationists do. Anything that contradicts the Bible is wrong or of Satan or something. God keeps getting smaller and smaller, but instead of realizing it, IDers and their ilk keep saying, "yeah, but..."

 

I will look at any evidencyou care to present. You haven't yet, but have a go.

 

Evolution cannot be discredited, as it is a fact. I am sure that the theory can be discredited (and might be someday), same goes for abiogenesis. I fail to see how this helps your position.

 

 

 

We do not have an accurate idea of what the prebiotic world looked like, but we can make educated guesses. And we have created self-replicating RNA in a lab. Yes, it was a man-made experiment. And we created life. That may not be how it happened billions of years ago, but it proves that it is possible for life to have appeared spontaneously. Sorry.

 

And man did that; sinful, imperfect man did that.

 

 

 

I have a laptop. Bummer. I tried to clean it and I screwed it up more. Such is life. Moose is getting me a new one anyway.

 

 

 

 

That would be the same as saying that I use them, since I have typed them on this thread. Refuting a concept is not the same as using it per se. And talkorigins is just a great, easy resource, especially for laypeople.

 

 

 

 

Example, please.

 

 

 

Wrong. Complexity does not equal design, for one thing, and when you postulate design in Nature you assert INCOMPETENT DESIGN, not intelligent. Examples available on request, but I fear this response is too long already.

 

 

 

I am not going to give you a basic biology class, nor take the time to show you where your understanding is erroneous. If you want to find out, look it up. I can't keep trying to educate you and then have you constantly repeating the same mistakes. If you have toruble reading for meaning I'll try harder to be more clear, but this is beyond inane. Read a biology book. Or a few of them. Then come back.

 

 

 

PRESENT SOME.

 

 

 

Same for you. You have angered Thor, and will be dealt with. Wouldn't want to be you upon death. DOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM.

 

 

 

Lay people who believe in Creationism aren't "Creationists." They are just ignorant.

 

 

 

Just because some guy says that atheism is a religion doesn't make it so. I looked at that site, and in their attempt at tolerance they cheapen what religion is. Go figure. Atheism is not a religion. It is the lack of belief in a diety or the supernatural. That's it. It isn't not an organized system of beliefs at all.

 

 

 

Haven't gotten to it yet.

 

I'll give you one right now: Zombies. I am not kidding.

 

 

 

You lost me.

 

 

 

It isn't my fault that their position is a lie. I also fail to see why I should be open to it, since it is demonstrably false. This is not new, it goes back 100 years or so. SOme people just learn ,ore slowly, I guess.

 

 

 

No, it is "Can what we see be explained through naturalistic processes. If yes, then god is unnecessary." Occam's Razor determines this to be the rational position. So far, we have explained so much using science, to assume that we cannot explain the origin of life would be folly.

 

 

 

Well, the Dover folks followed it and they were found to be liars. Public record.

 

 

 

It is not an ad hominem to call someone a liar when they are shown to be so. It is a statement of fact.

 

And by the way, the argument ad hominem goes like this:

 

Steve is ugly.

Therefore, Steve's position is false.

 

See the difference?

 

 

 

Not everyone who works in evolutionary biology or physics agrees with them. I do, of course. But others are wishy-washy and fear religious oppression or something. Who knows? Who cares?

 

 

 

I don't think you are a liar, and I am not calling you a liar. I do think that you listen to and give to much creedence to liars, though.

 

 

If you are so certain of your beliefs, what difference does it make to you if someone else believes in the existance of God?

[a4a]

If you are so certain of your beliefs, what difference does it make to you if someone else believes in the existance of God?

 

I will answer that from my pov:

 

Because some people that believe in their god want to rule those that do not by causing us non believers to adhere to their religious beliefs.

 

Examples are:

 

No shopping on Sundays

No drinking in establishments on Sundays or after midnight on Sat.

Abortion

birth control

gay issues

[nittygritty]

I will answer that from my pov:

 

Because some people that believe in their god want to rule those that do not by causing us non believers to adhere to their religious beliefs.

 

Examples are:

 

No shopping on Sundays

No drinking in establishments on Sundays or after midnight on Sat.

Abortion

birth control

gay issues

 

 

Those people make me mad too. The greedy politicians who accept campaign contributions from fundamentalist religious groups to support intolerance in the name of God. I don't vote for them but it has also become an impossible task trying to figure out the least likely candidate who will not force the agenda of their contributors on me. Honest politicians don't exist, nor have they ever.

 

There is a bakery where I live that refuses to decorate cakes with a Harry Potter theme or Halloween cookies with witches, ghosts, goblins, etc. I thought it was so ignorant that I stopped buying kid party stuff there.

 

Your reasons make sense and I agree.

[a4a]

Those people make me mad too. The greedy politicians who accept campaign contributions from fundamentalist religious groups to support intolerance in the name of God. I don't vote for them but it has also become an impossible task trying to figure out the least likely candidate who will not force the agenda of their contributors on me. Honest politicians don't exist, nor have they ever.

 

There is a bakery where I live that refuses to decorate cakes with a Harry Potter theme or Halloween cookies with witches, ghosts, goblins, etc. I thought it was so ignorant that I stopped buying kid party stuff there.

 

Your reasons make sense and I agree.

 

That would not upset me in the slightest way. The owner should have the option to put the devil child Harry Potter on a cake or not.

 

But when you are an owner and a group of people are telling you that you cannot sell, make, or buy Devil Child cakes..... that pisses me off.

 

Funny how the day of rest is here on Sundays but they all gather up at the Golden Silo buffet after church and make those waiters, cooks, and staff work on Sundays to feed them..... but no option for a beer or just recently you couldn't buy a pair of socks before noon on Sunday... but it is ok to buy a Twinkie.

 

:rolleyes:

[nittygritty]

That would not upset me in the slightest way. The owner should have the option to put the devil child Harry Potter on a cake or not.

 

But when you are an owner and a group of people are telling you that you cannot sell, make, or buy Devil Child cakes..... that pisses me off.

 

Funny how the day of rest is here on Sundays but they all gather up at the Golden Silo buffet after church and make those waiters, cooks, and staff work on Sundays to feed them..... but no option for a beer or just recently you couldn't buy a pair of socks before noon on Sunday... but it is ok to buy a Twinkie.

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

It is still illegal to buy beer or shop on Sundays where you live?

 

That is ridiculous.

[a4a]

It is still illegal to buy beer or shop on Sundays where you live?

 

That is ridiculous.

 

It was illegal to open your store before 1 pm on Sundays..... you cannot buy liquor after 7 pm. .

 

:lmao::lmao: But you can buy beer and wine 24 hours until midnight on Sat....... nothing on Sunday.... not even order a beer on sunday if out to eat.

 

Some pockets have repealed these laws. Stupid as they are losing tax revenue big time.

 

Oh but around Christmas you could shop 24/7.........

[nittygritty]

It was illegal to open your store before 1 pm on Sundays..... you cannot buy liquor after 7 pm. .

 

:lmao::lmao: But you can buy beer and wine 24 hours until midnight on Sat....... nothing on Sunday.... not even order a beer on sunday if out to eat.

 

Some pockets have repealed these laws. Stupid as they are losing tax revenue big time.

 

Oh but around Christmas you could shop 24/7.........

 

 

It sounds like everybody needs to be out shopping for replacements for the old farts on the city or county board.

 

Thank you for explaining your pov. I agree and am also against the religious fundamentalist agendas that are trying to force everyone to abide by their belief systems.

[Moai]

It goes beyond buying liquor on Sunday. "Blue Laws", as they are called here in the US still exist and are so moronic as to defy intelligence.

 

In some places, you can buy nails on Sunday but not a hammer.

 

In Idaho, you have to go to a state-run liquor store to buy anything stronger than beer or wine. Olde English 800 is not available in groery stores. The store is open weird hours, and not every day.

 

That is a far cry from where I live, where you can get anything anytime, and at any store. 7-11 has hard liquor and coolers and coolers full of beer. Aww, bliss....

 

Blue laws extend to things more serious, too. Why is marijuana illegal? If you look at the drugs that are legal--basically alcohol--and the drugs that aren't, drugs that induce a transcendental experience are banned but those that dull the senses are not.

 

That is not to say that marijuana provides a mind-blowing experience, but the high is more of the mind than the body. It is impossible to overdose on, does not induce violence, and has demonstrable medical value. And yet, here in the US, arguments rage as to whether medical marijuana should be allowed, let alone legal for recreational use.

 

When people get drunk, they shoot each other, hit each other, rape each other, etc. One of my best friends was killed a couple of weeks ago when he flipped his truck, driving drunk.

 

When people smoke pot, thye giggle a lot, listen to music or watch a movie, eat junk food and fall asleep. What a horror.

 

It is not without its drawbacks, though. The scourge known as The Grateful Dead would not have existed as long if not for weed, it makes many forget that barbers exist, and it creates a bizarre need to smell pathouli oil all the time. But at least nobody dies.

[nittygritty]

 

It is not without its drawbacks, though. The scourge known as The Grateful Dead would not have existed as long if not for weed, it makes many forget that barbers exist, and it creates a bizarre need to smell pathouli oil all the time. But at least nobody dies.

 

Oh no, my 10 year old son has been refusing to get a haircut.

 

Legalizing marijuana doesn't sound like the solution but I have heard about people having religious experiences by smoking peyote.

 

I have been way off topic in this thread, so I better get back to work before the infractions begin.

[Trimmer]

The scourge known as The Grateful Dead....

Ha!!!! Moai, perhaps this is just further proof to you that God does not exist?

 

A little levity within a sometimes tense topic....

[Moai]

There are many Jewish and Christian people working in the field of science. Many Scientists believe in God. IMO it is the Agnostic or Atheist Scientists with an agenda to disprove God and Religion. The ones that have lost their ability to be objective and whose arrogance and hatred for God and Religion have caused them to lose sight of the forest for the trees. They are the ones that are intentionally trying to put a slant on history, religion and science.

 

I find this paragraph particularly telling.

 

Yes, there are many believers of all faiths working in science. But they are not BEING a Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu when they are doing science. If they were, they would be doing science.

 

Science is a tool we use to understand the world around us. It starts with the supposition that everything in the natural world has a naturalisitic explanation. "God did it" is not a scientific explanation, and in point of fact doesn't explain anything. Also, once that "explanation" is invoked, inquiry stops.

 

Many scientists believe in god. Many do not. When asked, that vast majority of scientists don't beleive in a personal god as defined by most religions, but rather as a "force" behind everything. This isn't surprising, considering that people who call themselves Christians cannot agree on what being a "Christian" actually means.

 

Those who attempt to use scientific principles to somehow "prove" god's existence are actually the ones who have lost their objectivity. One must first assume god exists in order to "prove" said existence. That is not objective. An atheist would say, "Is there evidence for a god or gods?" and then examine the evidence. There isn't any, and so the atheist moves on.

When a religious person makes a positive claim about god, that claim can be tested. "God created all things" is a positive claim. When we look at the world and the life that exists, we see mixed and matched "mistakes" as well as mass exinctions. How could this be if there was an intelligent designer?

 

The creator must be more complex than that which is created, by definition. God is invoked to explain complexity, right? Something this complex must have a designer, right?If there is a being capable of reating the entire Universe, said being must be more complex than the Universe, and therefore MUST have a still more advanced creator himself, ad infinitum.

 

To say that atheists hate god is nonsensical, as one cannot hate what doesn't exist.

 

As far as arrogance, who is really arrogant, the person who sees the vast Universe as indifferent to our existence, or the person who thinks that there is an all-powerful invisible superbeing that keeps track of everything you do and cares for you specifically? The latter seems pretty arrogant to me.

 

Or is it arrogant to reject superstitions created by shepherds thousands of years ago whose understanding of Nature was near zero?

 

In another post you mentioned Jews using science to avoid to plague. This is patently false. It was blind luck that their religious practices helped them avoid rats. They had no idea that the fleas on rats were the cause of the plague, so they don;t get any credit for it.

 

Look at how Christians responded to the plague. Murder, paranoia, and bizarre rituals. I cannot go into detail here, but suffice it to say that it didn't help the situation.

 

How many young boys died of infection after his circumcision?

 

Why is it that mankind did not enjoy any substantial advance until to advent of secularism? If religion is so scietific and beneficial, why do they fight every advance tooth and nail?

 

Read the history for yourself. It isn't slanted against religion, even remotely. Any honest reading of the facts will show that religion ha done exponentially more hamr than good.

[Rooster_DAR]

I agree with much of this as well, I think we are going to see that religion is going to cause more problems than it's solving, but time will tell. To me the whole thing is black and white in looking at the overall picture since mans recorded existence. People can choose to believe what they want to believe, I'm sure the arguments will persist for many generations. In my eyes I am convinced that god(s) do not exist, at least in the form that we brought to believe. Radio and carbon dating is just one of the many tools that have proved the bible is skewed from what is real, at least as the modern interpretations are concerned.

 

Why are prayers not answered? why are there no burning bushes? why are there so many religions? why is it that 95 percent of all species gone extinct in a persistent pattern?

 

These questions aren't easy, but science has been finding explanations coupled with evidence that life did in fact evolve from the most basic forms of organic life; there is not much to debate about here. As for people feeling the spirit of god, perhaps what they are feeling is the power of the mind at work. Just as when you’re a child, and you swore you saw a ghost creeping out from under your bed, the mind has enough power to engage it's self in surreal and erratic thoughts when put in the right circumstances.

 

Much of religion has also become a part of our economy, as well as a catalyst for political sway, this is one big reason that religion still occupies many cultures aside from common beliefs. Religion and god also forms (or attempts to) a social structure that benefits in many moral ways, and walks hand in hand with law and obedience. Perhaps our ancestors understood that without some core belief framework, humans would be somewhat like our natural world and do what they wanted when they felt like it, and with no remorse or regard to another.

 

Again, everyone has the right to believe what they want, I am just verbalizing my ideas and what I have come to believe through years of thought and research.

 

Cheers!

[Havn_a_life]

First off... God was Goddess... period.

 

Umm...O-K. That's believeable.

[Havn_a_life]

Figures,

 

Religion is always trying to defend itself in any way it can, in this case why not fight fire with fire (science). When I finish my book, our descendents will read this book and say wow, there were a few intelligent people back then.

 

As science progresses, religion keeps getting shoved further and further into a corner trying to defend their beliefs, so much they try to fuse their beliefs into pseudo religious ambiguity. Sure I believe the in the possibility a creator, but if so it's nothing like we were taught.

 

Religion is outdated, gods are an archaic reminder of our primitive ancestry.

 

Now, proceed at throwing stones.

 

Cheers!

 

Nah, I'll just do what the Good Book says and pray for ya. God'll take care of the rest.

[nittygritty]

I find this paragraph particularly telling.

 

Yes, there are many believers of all faiths working in science. But they are not BEING a Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu when they are doing science. If they were, they would be doing science.

 

I agree, so why continually point out and support only the findings of the atheist that work in science? Being an "atheist" does not give credibility to scientific evidence as being based on unbiased findings. Why is it necessary to make the distinction?

 

Science is a tool we use to understand the world around us. It starts with the supposition that everything in the natural world has a naturalisitic explanation. "God did it" is not a scientific explanation, and in point of fact doesn't explain anything. Also, once that "explanation" is invoked, inquiry stops.

 

I thought it started with a hypothesis...

 

Many scientists believe in god. Many do not. When asked, that vast majority of scientists don't beleive in a personal god as defined by most religions, but rather as a "force" behind everything. This isn't surprising, considering that people who call themselves Christians cannot agree on what being a "Christian" actually means.

 

Isn't an invisible "force" "behind everything" the same as an eternal higher supreme being?

 

Those who attempt to use scientific principles to somehow "prove" god's existence are actually the ones who have lost their objectivity. One must first assume god exists in order to "prove" said existence. That is not objective. An atheist would say, "Is there evidence for a god or gods?" and then examine the evidence. There isn't any, and so the atheist moves on.

When a religious person makes a positive claim about god, that claim can be tested. "God created all things" is a positive claim. When we look at the world and the life that exists, we see mixed and matched "mistakes" as well as mass exinctions. How could this be if there was an intelligent designer?

 

You don't think personal interests or beliefs could motivate someone to enter the field of science?

 

I don't view God as a puppet master putting on a play for his amusement and an "intelligent designer" would know the answer to the question your asking. I can only make guesses based on my own thoughts and personal beliefs. I don't know but I hope to know the answer someday.

 

The creator must be more complex than that which is created, by definition. God is invoked to explain complexity, right? Something this complex must have a designer, right?If there is a being capable of reating the entire Universe, said being must be more complex than the Universe, and therefore MUST have a still more advanced creator himself, ad infinitum.

 

God is an eternal, infinite, higher supreme being. He has no beginning or ending. He always was and will be there.

 

To say that atheists hate god is nonsensical, as one cannot hate what doesn't exist.

 

I know and I agree. So why do they hate something they don't believe in?

Many do come across as hating God and I too am curious as to why that would be?

 

As far as arrogance, who is really arrogant, the person who sees the vast Universe as indifferent to our existence, or the person who thinks that there is an all-powerful invisible superbeing that keeps track of everything you do and cares for you specifically? The latter seems pretty arrogant to me.

 

Both of those statements kind of generalize everybody as being arrogant. Perhaps we all come off as being slightly arrogant when it comes to defending our beliefs or non-beliefs.

 

Or is it arrogant to reject superstitions created by shepherds thousands of years ago whose understanding of Nature was near zero?

 

Moses certainly has not been credited yet with being an absolute genius in the field of science for all of his scientific contributions by coming up with all that "superstition". Nor have any of the authors, generations apart, who contributed to writing such an elaborate "fictitious" tale, been credited with the wisdom that would have been required to make up all that "nonsense".

 

In another post you mentioned Jews using science to avoid to plague. This is patently false. It was blind luck that their religious practices helped them avoid rats. They had no idea that the fleas on rats were the cause of the plague, so they don;t get any credit for it.

 

There was no "blind luck" to any of it. The bacteria that caused the Bubonic Plague is Yersinia pestis it can be found in infected wild rodents, especially rats and the fleas that become infected from sucking the blood of the infected rats. The fleas need a host to survive and transmit the infection. Contact with the infected rats or the infected rat fleas was how humans became infected with the Bubonic Plague that became an epidemic. Jewish Religious beliefs and cleanliness practices that were based on inspirations by God and documented, contributed a great deal to the established of many sanitary laws and practices in Medicine and Public Health Safety.

 

Look at how Christians responded to the plague. Murder, paranoia, and bizarre rituals. I cannot go into detail here, but suffice it to say that it didn't help the situation.

 

Jesus Christ was Jewish and he did not kill people. People killed people and there was nothing in the teachings of Christ or being a "Christian" that has ever included murdering people.

 

How many young boys died of infection after his circumcision?

 

Obviously, not enough to wipe out the human species. Which brings up an interesting issue. Why do you suppose that male infants are still being born with foreskin? Why do you suppose there are no humans giving birth to apes or apes giving birth to humans? There seems to be many flaws in "The Evolution Theory" doesn't there?

 

Why is it that mankind did not enjoy any substantial advance until to advent of secularism? If religion is so scietific and beneficial, why do they fight every advance tooth and nail?

 

Read the history for yourself. It isn't slanted against religion, even remotely. Any honest reading of the facts will show that religion ha done exponentially more hamr than good.

 

I don't know the answer to these questions but I do know that it was the actions of the people who did the harm, not religion.

 

Sorry, I didn't multi-quote my post right.

[DutchGuy]

I don't know the answer to these questions but I do know that it was the actions of the people who did the harm, not religion.

 

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

[nittygritty]

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

 

Moai's last two paragraphs sounded more like statements to me and without knowing what he was refering to, I didn't know what or if he was asking.

 

I had bolded each paragraph of his post and the rest of my answers and responses are unbolded within the "quote frame" following his bolded paragraphs. I didn't do the "multi quote" "quote" right. I'm sorry, if my responding post was confusing but my responses are within the quote frame.

[Ohio_isforLovers]

I think thats amazing how all this thing works out. Like i heard that if the earth would move just little to the sun it would cause the earth to get hot and implode! lol no jk BUt like it would get extremly hot and like if it moved away just a little the earth would freeze. Its those little things that gets ya.

[Moai]

I think thats amazing how all this thing works out. Like i heard that if the earth would move just little to the sun it would cause the earth to get hot and implode! lol no jk BUt like it would get extremly hot and like if it moved away just a little the earth would freeze. Its those little things that gets ya.

 

Why? The Earth is habitable for us, so that is where we developed. If the Earth cooled, we might die off but other life might form.

 

What you suggest above is that it is somehow unexplainable or "divine" beause I can reah the top shelf in my kitchen. I mean, if I was a little shorter I couldn't reach it, and if I was a little taller I'd hit my head. Obviously, this is the work of some invisible, divine force, and there is a purpose for me reaching the top shelf beyond just getting glasses and plates. There must be a reason.

[Havn_a_life]

It's called faith in things unseen. That's what I believe and I don't care what anyone else says or tries to explain away.

[disgracian]

I hate to be the one to break it to you, Ohio, but the Earth's orbit around the sun is elliptical, and its distance varies by 3 million miles. Yet I have heard many a creationist laughably claim that Earth's distance from the sun is "precise", sometimes even "perfect".

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moai]

It's called faith in things unseen. That's what I believe and I don't care what anyone else says or tries to explain away.

 

Fairies are real, and I'll believe in them no matter what anyone says or thinks. Just because you can't see them and can explain what happens in my garden without invoking fairies doesn't mean that fairies aren't there--that is the whole point of fairies in the first place.

[burning 4 revenge]

Fairies are real, and I'll believe in them no matter what anyone says or thinks. Just because you can't see them and can explain what happens in my garden without invoking fairies doesn't mean that fairies aren't there--that is the whole point of fairies in the first place.

what is it you do with fairies in your garden?