Not sure how to do this! Guilt and confusion

[Rainy day]

I have been married for 13 years now. My wife and I have 2 children ages 9 and 5. We have had relationship problems really from the start. When our first boy was about 4 it got really rough. For some reason, we pushed ahead and had another child. Dont get me wrong, I love my children more than anything in this world, but it sure complicates things.

 

There are alot of issues with my marriage. I am a laid-back and social type of personality. I get along with everyone and have always had alot of friends. My wife is the opposite. She is pretty uptight in general and always stressed out about even little things. In the past we have made friends with other married couples and often at some point they just start avoiding us, because my wife will make a rude comment or something like that.

 

She and I don't get along very well and I stopped even trying to have mutual friends because I know how it will turn out. I travel alot for work and even though I look forward to seeing my children, I dread coming home from a trip because I know I will just be depressed. I see other couples that are really in love and it just makes me feel all the more empty.

 

We tried marriage counseling about 4 years ago. It didnt seem to be helping and I wanted to leave, but I was too sad at the thought of not seeing my children when I get up in the morning. Finally I just gave up and decided to suck-it-up and just try and enjoy my life with the kids.

 

Well it hasd gotten worse over the last couple years. I am so resentful that everything my wife does bothers me. Once and a while she tries to show me some affection, but I avoid it because I dont feel that way towards her. I am neither emotionally or physically attracted to her in the least. This makes me feel so guilty. Just like I think I deserve better for myself, I think she deserves better than me as well.

 

I am at my breaking point and I don't know what to do. I want to separate, but I can't bring myself to do it. Im sure it would devastate my kids and I think it would probably devastate her as well.

 

What do I do? I am sure that I can never feel the love I once felt for her, but I am afraid of the turmoil that leaving will cause. I am 38 years old and dont want to spend the rest of my life unhappy. Anyone have any advice for me?

[bestadvisor]

Well, at least, you haven't cheated right?

[outrageousxcgirl]

I'm not married, don't have kids, but I have an idea how your feeling.

 

I'm REALLY sorry about how your feeling though.

 

My dad speaks to me about the same way about my mom.. he's not interested anymore but won't divorce her till I'm in college.

 

They never argue in front of me.. nor really talk to eachother.

 

It's hurtful and the tension is terrible at dinner every couple nights.

 

I try to stay out with my friends, and not to sound center of attention but it's horrible for me.. and it's an absolute terrible enviorment for your children to live in.. just because I know first hand.

 

I see therpy because it depresses me my parents obviously don't love each other.. but my mother tries to pretend everything is alright.

 

I don't know what it's like to be married, and I'm sure things are very complicated.

 

My experience it's better off divorce, everyone will be benefited, you will find someone else you love, along with your wife, and your children if you love them very much will eventually understand what you did and why you HAD to do it.

 

I hope this helps a little bit, I understand what your going through is extremely stressful.

[Rainy day]

Advisor- No I haven't cheated...well I have in my mind, but never acted on it.

 

outrageous- You seem like a very mature and wise person. I hope your situation works out for you!

[bestadvisor]

You said you had problems from the very beginning, is that an excuse for your planned furture actions? There must have been good times that lead to a proposal, marriage, first kid, and then second kid. You pointed out all her flaws, have you, recently, concentrate or pay attention to her qualities as a woman whom you proposed to and as a mother to your children?

 

Before pointing fingers at her, have you look at yourself? Maybe through the years, you have not tried hard enough to be affectionate, loving, etc. to her. Instead of putting the energy to go through a divorce, which is a LOT, including deviding assests, spousal support, custody, child visitation arrangement, pain to you, her and the kids, etc. but try to put the energy to work on the marriage. Tell her the truth that things are horrible now and that you really want to fix it before it all comes to an end.

 

By the way, does the thought of your wife dating or being with other men make you sick? If the answer is yes, there is definately something to work with.

[justfine]

If you're not physically or emotionally attracted to your wife, I would reccomend getting legally separated or divorced. At 38, you're still young and have the opportunity to meet someone new and be happy. I'm sure you're worried about your children, but, you can be divorced and still be a good father.

 

If you wait and wait, you may find that attracting women in your later forties may prove more and more difficult. In my opinion, you're only prolonging the inevitable.

[bestadvisor]

If you're not physically or emotionally attracted to your wife, I would reccomend getting legally separated or divorced. At 38, you're still young and have the opportunity to meet someone new and be happy. I'm sure you're worried about your children, but, you can be divorced and still be a good father.

 

If you wait and wait, you may find that attracting women in your later forties may prove more and more difficult. In my opinion, you're only prolonging the inevitable.

 

This kind of thinking is what make this country's divorce rate so high and so sad. The lack of respect for marriage is just amazing.

 

He at one point in time was (and maybe still is deep down) in love with her, proposed to her and produced a family with two children. There can't be just be no physical or emotional attraction whatsoever through these years.

[justfine]

This kind of thinking is what make this country's divorce rate so high and so sad. The lack of respect for marriage is just amazing.

 

He at one point in time was (and maybe still is deep down) in love with her, proposed to her and produced a family with two children. There can't be just be no physical or emotional attraction whatsoever through these years.

 

 

You're right. However, I've come to the realization that these are different times. People just don't have the same level of commitment to marriage and I'm not sure it's a bad thing. I don't believe that people should stay married if they are not happy. It's best to make a clean break, then seek out a happier relationship. It certainly is more noble than the way most people do it. Most cheat, establish a solid relationship then leave their spouses.

 

Keep in mind that the original poster stated that they've had problems since the beginning and he dreads going home. That's no way to live.

 

Marriage is just not the way it used to be and that is why marriage rates are on the decline.

[Melovator]

Rainy Day has your wife ever seen a professional about her behaviour? It kind of sounds like she might have some issues. Bit of anxiety perhaps? I, as always, urge professional counselling- IC for you, IC for her, MC/RC for the both of you because no matter what happens you've got to be able to at least talk to each other civilly for the kids.

[bestadvisor]

Rainy Day has your wife ever seen a professional about her behaviour? It kind of sounds like she might have some issues. Bit of anxiety perhaps? I, as always, urge professional counselling- IC for you, IC for her, MC/RC for the both of you because no matter what happens you've got to be able to at least talk to each other civilly for the kids.

 

That's what I'm talking about. Just quiting without warning her first and give her a chance is just wrong. And, don't just tell her "either we go get counseling or I'm gone" is not the way to approach it either. Be sensitive, caring, but at the same time clear about the potential consequences if she refused and things don't change.

[Gunny376]

If you wait and wait, you may find that attracting women in your later forties may prove more and more difficult. In my opinion, you're only prolonging the inevitable.

 

HA!

By the time a man and woman has passed forty ~ the demographics have changed. There simply are more availiable women than there are men. Especially good men. We're not back in high school.

 

I've simply have more to offer most women than your average woman has to offer me. The only two things have to offer me is sex and compaionship ~ but if the quality and quantity of same is of such poor quality and quantility ~ what do I need her for?

 

90% of all divorces are filed by women. Many women of the Western World have had their heads filled with such BS about it means to be a modern women ~ they're screwing up a a lot of good marriages and good lives!

 

Too many women have got it in their heads that all men care about is sex ~ wake up call ~ that's not true!

 

Men want and need to be and fill wanted, needed, appreciated, and even a little bit admired in a hero kind of way! That's to say? Men have emotional needs to, and that extends beyond the bedroom.

 

I've gotten really good at screening out women with "FBS" ~ Flakey Broad Syndrone, "issues" and red flags.

 

I've got one gal that younger than me, in her early forties, wondering why I don't want to get involved with her ~ her with her job at the local convince store, $5.50 an hour job ~ less than forty hours a week, without any medical or dental insurance, with her rebellioious 18 year old daughter still living at home, that dropped out of HS three weeks before graduation working at the local chicken shack. Not to mention her "former" cystal meth addicted son.

 

If and if you think its hard for you as a woman to find a good man past the age of 50, you'd best be reading up at Dr. Phil's fourmn.

 

And its simply because past the age of 40 or 50 men cannot afford to be going out buying all that stuff that you need for day to day living.

 

Some women are their own worse enemy's!

[justfine]

Gunny,

 

Well that's good to hear. I guess I'm reminiscing when I was in my early thirties and meeting women was so easy.

 

Now, I'm 44, and still am in good shape, work out regularly. I'm just not as confident anymore because I feel like I'm getting older. Most people say that I look like I'm in my 30s.

 

Anyways, by the time I'm ready to date again, I'll be close to 46. I'm going back to school for a couple of years. Kinda scary.

[Rainy day]

You said you had problems from the very beginning, is that an excuse for your planned furture actions? There must have been good times that lead to a proposal, marriage, first kid, and then second kid. You pointed out all her flaws, have you, recently, concentrate or pay attention to her qualities as a woman whom you proposed to and as a mother to your children?

 

Before pointing fingers at her, have you look at yourself? Maybe through the years, you have not tried hard enough to be affectionate, loving, etc. to her. Instead of putting the energy to go through a divorce, which is a LOT, including deviding assests, spousal support, custody, child visitation arrangement, pain to you, her and the kids, etc. but try to put the energy to work on the marriage. Tell her the truth that things are horrible now and that you really want to fix it before it all comes to an end.

 

By the way, does the thought of your wife dating or being with other men make you sick? If the answer is yes, there is definately something to work with.

 

You said you had problems from the very beginning, is that an excuse for your planned furture actions? There must have been good times that lead to a proposal, marriage, first kid, and then second kid. You pointed out all her flaws, have you, recently, concentrate or pay attention to her qualities as a woman whom you proposed to and as a mother to your children?

 

Before pointing fingers at her, have you look at yourself? Maybe through the years, you have not tried hard enough to be affectionate, loving, etc. to her. Instead of putting the energy to go through a divorce, which is a LOT, including deviding assests, spousal support, custody, child visitation arrangement, pain to you, her and the kids, etc. but try to put the energy to work on the marriage. Tell her the truth that things are horrible now and that you really want to fix it before it all comes to an end.

 

By the way, does the thought of your wife dating or being with other men make you sick? If the answer is yes, there is definately something to work with.

 

Well, I dont mean to be pointing fingers. I dont blame her, I just dont think our personalities match. I started dating her exclusively when I was 21 and in college ( I started college at 21). When I was younger I went from one long-term relationship to the next. I had the habit of becoming comfortable and not wanting to rock the boat. When I finished college and was going to move, getting married was a way for us to stay together. My best friend at the time warned me that he thought I was making a mistake. I feel like I settled on the not quite right person for me because it was safe.

Am I trying to justify future actions...I dunno. I didn't just dream this up now, I have felt this way for a long time.

 

Really if I blame anyone I blame myself. I made the most major life decision for the wrong reasons. That is my fault and it can ruin 4 people's lives.

As far as counseling...been there. Its not as if things were rough for 6 months and Im ready to bail. I tried to make it work for a LONG time. I talked with her many times about the things I have a hard time with. The reply is "that's just who I am". Im at the point now where I just dont have the drive to try that again and be in the same place I am now 5 years later. We arent lovers, we are room mates who dont get along.

 

Does the thought of her dating or being with someone else make me sick? No. If he treated her right I would be thrilled. The thought of not having my kids with me all the time makes me sick though!

[Melovator]

As far as counseling...been there. Its not as if things were rough for 6 months and Im ready to bail. I tried to make it work for a LONG time. I talked with her many times about the things I have a hard time with. The reply is "that's just who I am". Im at the point now where I just dont have the drive to try that again and be in the same place I am now 5 years later. We arent lovers, we are room mates who dont get along.

 

If that's her attitude, that's really sad... she obviously doesn't want to grow as a person, no one stays the same their entire life without being a little strange... IMO anyway.

 

Whatever you do your kids have to come first.

[Ladyjane14]

No I haven't cheated...well I have in my mind, but never acted on it.

 

Anybody in particular you cheated with "in your mind"???

[Rainy day]

I had an ex-coworker who is young and very attractive ask to meet me for a drink when I was on a business trip in her town. She said she just wanted to catch up since we were friends when we worked together. I had a feeling that she wanted more but I went anyways because I was curious. She invited me back to her apartment, but I told her I was tired and just went back to my hotel. No harm done, but I was very tempted.

[DarkBlue]

What makes you so certain that you wouldn't be able to see your kids every day if you two divorced? Is it because you work too much, and wouldn't have time or think she would be more likely to win custody somehow? You seem like a very good father.. Are you fearful of taking on the task of taking care of the kids solo? Have you and your wife spoken about divorce in front of the kids before? Do they seem scared at the idea? Sorry for so many questions.. your situation just seems very similar to one a guy I know from work seems to be going through at and I'm sort of looking to get answers on the inner workings of the mind of a good father trying to do the good father thing despite having a very empty marriage.

[Rainy day]

What makes you so certain that you wouldn't be able to see your kids every day if you two divorced? Is it because you work too much, and wouldn't have time or think she would be more likely to win custody somehow? You seem like a very good father.. Are you fearful of taking on the task of taking care of the kids solo? Have you and your wife spoken about divorce in front of the kids before? Do they seem scared at the idea? Sorry for so many questions.. your situation just seems very similar to one a guy I know from work seems to be going through at and I'm sort of looking to get answers on the inner workings of the mind of a good father trying to do the good father thing despite having a very empty marriage.

 

The reason I wont see the kids everyday is that I have a very busy job. I often work long hours. Since I live with them now, I see them in the morning, at night (unless I happen to be on a business trip) and every weekend. That just won't be able to happen when we separate. I will be less a part of their everyday lives and Im sure the whole dynamic with the kids will change because when they are with me it will be for "visits". My friend is divorced and gets his kids every other weekend, plus one weeknight every week. This will be tough, but I guess it is all part of the package...

 

I finally had the discussion with my wife two nights ago that I am very unhappy and think our marriage is over. She didn't take it very well. I thought she would be relieved as well, but she said she was shocked. I dont know how this could be. There has been no love or intimacy for a very long time.

 

Now we are in this strange kind of limbo. I have such mixed emotions. I go through moments of feeling like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders to sadness that all we have accomplished (having 2 kids together, having a big beautiful house etc) is going to disappear. Is this roller coaster normal??

[justfine]

Of course it's normal to be on the emotional roller coaster you speak of. The thought of losing all you've worked for so many years has to be factored in. One thing you should consider is that in any marriage, you're going to have periods in your life when you're unhappy with your spouse. Call it boredom, a loss of passion, indifference. I believe this is normal.

 

However, you have stated that you've felt distant from your wife for a long time and that she is rude to other people so much so that they avoid you.

 

This is really your call and it's great that you haven't involved yourself in an affair first to facilitate your decision. If you feel that you have nothing else to give to this marriage and you're truly unhappy, then divorce just may be what the doctor ordered. Of course, your decision will adversely affect others, but as you know, life is messy.

[OldEurope]

I do believe people today want to be committed to marriage just as much as anyone in any previous "era". I do not think that the universal human desire for long-term committment to another human has in any way dwindled. Most people want the "ideal"--a life long romantic love-- and that is rather nice: it shows that society still wants to believe in certain values. And you know, it does happen.

 

I disagree however that all marriages are to be "respected" as one poster put it early on in this thread, especially when the marriage does not respect itself. "Marriage" is an abstraction--like the words "economy" or "war". It consists of what the individuals involved make of it. And if those individuals are ill-paired in too many ways, it is never going to work. Only the individuals can make the changes within the marriage. To "work on" a marriage has to mean both partners actively working on themselves. When it is only one person--as often seems to be the case on these forums--you might as well be trying to have a relationship with a blank wall. There are too many living-dead stories on Loveshack and it all seems a terrible waste of lives and time.

 

I just do not see the point of an agonizing, emotion-less, physically empty life with someone after so many years of trying to make it work. This does not mean that one has shoddy values or does not believe in committment. Committment means something being worthy enough to remain committed to. In the case of a break down of a couple, I would say that-- with, of course, the exception of serial cheaters, drunks, or abusers--most of the time it is not a lack of morals that leads to the break-down but irrevocable psychological stress: that the individuals involved were not properly strong enough, mature enough, like-minded enough, or active enough--or altogether married for the wrong reasons-- to remain as a pair. "Most people" want to uphold values. I truly believe that the good majority of couples going off to the altar really, really want to see what they are about to do through for the long haul.

 

It is true that in this day and age there are way too many flakes and easy-come easy-go standards and morals but that is a phenomenon the roots of which lie far, far deeper than divorce rates and bad relationships. The crisis of marriage today and of divorces is the product of a Western society, which, for all of its wealth and conveniences, no longer produces healthy individuals. The problem then is that these unstable, unsettled adults (or barely adults) get together and all the latent individual problems surface and clash with the other partner. But all that is too much for me to get into here...

 

As for older men....Please! The best! My boyfriends were always older by at least 15 years and I tell you, a man in his fifties even sixties today can be the most attractive thing around. Self confident, masculine, assured through life experience and very often supremely physically fit---no problem there! My husband is 20 years older and to this day when I meet him on the corner or meet him somewhere, when I see him--tall and tweedy and brilliant and handsome--I still get a flutter in my heart.

 

xoOE

[kobegirl]

tell her you want to leave and leave. you arent sparing your wife's feelings by ignoring your wife's affection . your being selfish . i am sure she feels as unloved as you do . I would say just leave now. just spit it out . you would be doing you and her a favor.

[Bobby NoBrains]

Similar situation, different reasons, but been there, doing that

 

Yes, I don't feel so good about it .. the roller coaster is normal. I've talked to a couple mates and cousins. The advice has been from "Take it one step at a time", to "Are you insane ? How can you give up someone so nice, and what about your kid?" .. But at the end of the day, no one besides yourself can really know what goes on *inside* the marriage. If you genuinely feel that getting out is the only way to safeguard your physical, emotional and mental well-being, then that *may* be the way to go ...

 

However, are you sure there is nothing you can do to revive the relationship ? I've tried it all from talking to tantrums to breakdowns, but nothing has worked the way I hoped it would, and I finally realized things won't improve. That is when I decided I needed out. And I still sometimes wonder if I've done the *best* thing I could, or whether I could have done something differently.

 

Also, though I say it very gently here, the episodes between us were actually quite stormy and abusive to each other. I screamed, she screamed, etc. .. Finally we decided to separate for a while pending further decisions. I haven't regretted my choice yet. Whether you will ? I dunno, depends on how strong (or weak) the residual feelings you have for her, are. But I get the feeling that when you say you wish she could be happier with someone else that there's very little love left Like you're in a position that you have affection for her, but nothing more.

 

Sorry to see you where you are, I sympathize with your situation.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Bobby NoBrains]

I do believe people today want to be committed to marriage just as much as anyone in any previous "era". I do not think that the universal human desire for long-term committment to another human has in any way dwindled. Most people want the "ideal"--a life long romantic love-- and that is rather nice: it shows that society still wants to believe in certain values. And you know, it does happen.

 

I disagree however that all marriages are to be "respected" as one poster put it early on in this thread, especially when the marriage does not respect itself. "Marriage" is an abstraction--like the words "economy" or "war". It consists of what the individuals involved make of it. And if those individuals are ill-paired in too many ways, it is never going to work. Only the individuals can make the changes within the marriage. To "work on" a marriage has to mean both partners actively working on themselves. When it is only one person--as often seems to be the case on these forums--you might as well be trying to have a relationship with a blank wall. There are too many living-dead stories on Loveshack and it all seems a terrible waste of lives and time.

 

I just do not see the point of an agonizing, emotion-less, physically empty life with someone after so many years of trying to make it work. This does not mean that one has shoddy values or does not believe in committment. Committment means something being worthy enough to remain committed to. In the case of a break down of a couple, I would say that-- with, of course, the exception of serial cheaters, drunks, or abusers--most of the time it is not a lack of morals that leads to the break-down but irrevocable psychological stress: that the individuals involved were not properly strong enough, mature enough, like-minded enough, or active enough--or altogether married for the wrong reasons-- to remain as a pair. "Most people" want to uphold values. I truly believe that the good majority of couples going off to the altar really, really want to see what they are about to do through for the long haul.

 

It is true that in this day and age there are way too many flakes and easy-come easy-go standards and morals but that is a phenomenon the roots of which lie far, far deeper than divorce rates and bad relationships. The crisis of marriage today and of divorces is the product of a Western society, which, for all of its wealth and conveniences, no longer produces healthy individuals. The problem then is that these unstable, unsettled adults (or barely adults) get together and all the latent individual problems surface and clash with the other partner.

 

So nicely put, and I would love to hear more from you ... Given time I will definitely be reading up on some more of your wisdom, ty.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[sumdude]

In the case of a break down of a couple, I would say that-- with, of course, the exception of serial cheaters, drunks, or abusers--most of the time it is not a lack of morals that leads to the break-down but irrevocable psychological stress: that the individuals involved were not properly strong enough, mature enough, like-minded enough, or active enough--or altogether married for the wrong reasons-- to remain as a pair. "Most people" want to uphold values. I truly believe that the good majority of couples going off to the altar really, really want to see what they are about to do through for the long haul.

 

It is true that in this day and age there are way too many flakes and easy-come easy-go standards and morals but that is a phenomenon the roots of which lie far, far deeper than divorce rates and bad relationships. The crisis of marriage today and of divorces is the product of a Western society, which, for all of its wealth and conveniences, no longer produces healthy individuals. The problem then is that these unstable, unsettled adults (or barely adults) get together and all the latent individual problems surface and clash with the other partner. But all that is too much for me to get into here...

 

 

 

Irrevocable stress kills love... how true. I can say without hesitation that stress combined with my and my ex's inability to handle it well killed my marriage. It's a rare person who will persevere through long term heavy stress, keeping the hope of improvement on the other side.

[DarkBlue]

The reason I wont see the kids everyday is that I have a very busy job. I often work long hours. Since I live with them now, I see them in the morning, at night (unless I happen to be on a business trip) and every weekend. That just won't be able to happen when we separate. I will be less a part of their everyday lives and Im sure the whole dynamic with the kids will change because when they are with me it will be for "visits". My friend is divorced and gets his kids every other weekend, plus one weeknight every week. This will be tough, but I guess it is all part of the package...

 

I finally had the discussion with my wife two nights ago that I am very unhappy and think our marriage is over. She didn't take it very well. I thought she would be relieved as well, but she said she was shocked. I dont know how this could be. There has been no love or intimacy for a very long time.

 

Now we are in this strange kind of limbo. I have such mixed emotions. I go through moments of feeling like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders to sadness that all we have accomplished (having 2 kids together, having a big beautiful house etc) is going to disappear. Is this roller coaster normal??

 

:(

 

That breaks my heart to hear... You care about your kids so much. This situation reminds me so much of the MM I fancied for awhile. (wait.. actually I still do.. but have been having to pretend I don't for loads of good reasons) He adores his kids more then anything. Apparantly enough to act like he's happy in the relationship he's in. I know he's not though.

 

Not because he told me but because I met his kids when he brought them to work one day, and his little girl told me that mommy and daddy are cool, except for when they start fighting, and yelling, and saying they want a divorce, and she didn't want mommy and daddy to divorce, and it scared her when they said stuff like that... and got all teary eyed on me talking about it... and the guilt for fancying her father and flirting with him ate away at me so much I couldn't sleep at night for a few days. So I finally transferred to a different area in the company so I could avoid seeing him... just because when I see him I act stupid and forget my resolve to stop flirting with him and encourging him to do so as well.

 

*sigh*

 

Anyway, Well... hmm. I don't have alot of advice on what to do about the custody/visitation situation, but looking on the bright side... one good thing about the divorce will be that you will no longer be living a lie. You might be able to find someone else who you would REALLY fall in love with, and STAY in love with.. because you'd have learned from past mistakes about rushing into things or marrying for the sake of image.. or whatever reason you did it where you weren't very true to your heart and so on... It might take awhile but maybe you will find a nice woman who will love you and everything that goes with you (I'm posting to hopefully cheer you up.. and I guess because this thread is attractive to me because it reminds me of the married guy I like who's in the relationship for hte sake of the kids...and gosh darnit.. If I had the guts I'd be like "Dude. I know your unhappy, so divorce her and then we can finally go on a date without both of us being terrible people." Who knows? Some woman might be thinking the same thing about you. Might also cheer you up a bit if I let you know some of us women would be willing to take everything that comes with a father..kids are not "baggage" to all of us.. only some) and then you'll find your perfect girl and she might be able to help take care of them so you can continue your career and see your kids/have custody of them once again, but with someone you actually look forward to coming home to each night who your really truely compatible with.

 

You might have to go a few years without them though, and there are no guarantees you'll find just the right person.. but at least with the divorce there is a chance... there's hope again.. for a future. Where your at now is where you'll stay stuck forever if you don't make any changes.