How do you know when the fat lady is singing?

[IamASelfishSOB]

He didn't, after a few years of me begging and pleading for him to "come back" to the M, until I told him I wanted to separate. Now, since March, he has been doing much better. Truly. He is really making a spectacular effort. Now the problem seems to be soley me.

 

I'm sorry, I missed the post where you said he is doing better.

 

As I have stated before, in the past (a few years ago) this change in behavior would have been my DREAM. I would have been a happy woman to see what I have seen him become during the last 6 months.

 

Lately, I have felt that I might just be done with the whole thing, and upset that I couldn't just be happy that he is doing what he is now. Couldn't seem to FORGIVE him. Worried that the other shoe will drop (and he/we will regress again) in a few to ten years....

 

I really know how you feel. My wife and I have discussed my issues as well. I won't go into them in your thread, but she has made a concerted effort to change also. Even though she has made the effort, I am reasonably sure that she cannot be the perfect person that I desire and I'm foolish to think she will be. My situation was complicated and magnified by the other person and I think that I envisioned the same result as you. She would fail, resent having to change, or just give up and we would go back to the way we were. What has become important to me is that she is trying now. I sometimes question her motivation and wonder if it is out of desparation (another reason we probably need counselling), but I am giving her the benefit of the doubt.

 

I am in a little different situation than you in that she has given me no real reason to resent her. She has done me no wrong. Which just makes me feel worse about my feelings.

 

No. I have to be fair. He is trying. I am just stuggling to care/let him/give him the benefit of the doubt. Why? I don't know. That is what I have been asking you all and myself. Is it just that I am done? That it is over? That I have allowed my heart to become too hardened? That I deserve him to leave me? Good gravy. I'm so messed up!

 

I've got to think that you have a chance to make things better. If he is willing to change and give it his all, there has to be a chance you can be happy again. Just don't let him off the hook. If he falls off the wagon even for a short period, let him know right away rather than waiting six months. You'll see how serious he is.

 

I'm sorry to hear that she is doing destructive behaviors again. It's both hard to be the one who is on the receiving end, and hard to be big enough to stop yourself from doing them when you are on the dealing-out end. I feel I can empathize with both angles.

 

I won't let her go down that path. We'll be divorced sooner than later and she'll be the one to file.

[directx]

I hope that is all it is.

 

I will try to do this.

 

This is easier said than done, my friend.

 

Touche', babe.

I think you are hitting me below the belt with this one.

And I think you know why....

 

DirectX -

I am trying not to take you personally.

I appreciate your concern for me and my situation.

 

But you have an unfair advantage to other posters here.

 

And you are using it against me in public.

That's all I'm going to say.

 

MS, I don't think I have said anything that has not been mentioned in this thread. If that seemed to be the case, I apologize for the miscommunication.

 

I know what it is like to tell something to someone in private and have it used against you on a public forum. I would not ever do that to you or anyone. (ask me about that sometime!)

 

I think we all want to help and I know deep down you know I am too.

If anyone disagrees, please let me know via pm (Not here, this is MS's forum).

 

I will start a new thread on what a jerk I am if I get PM's.

[Kasan]

Mustang and SOB,

 

I really believe that all is not lost with you. I have been down the same road as you both (minus the affairs) to a certain extent.

 

The resentments, the arguing, the indifference, and the anger. Wondering how I was going to make it through another year of marriage. Just sick to death of my life that I had chosen.

 

What changed for me? I just got plain fed up with the way things were. I decided to give it one more try to make it work and if I couldn't figure how to make it work. I was gone with the kids!!!

 

Because I am a fighter and I wanted to be fair and leave no stone unturned I sat down and made my lists of his supposed shortcomings. The list grew longer and longer. After a while I got to wondering if he was so flawed what was wrong with me?

 

How did I ever end up with this nutcase???? It couldn't all be him! It dawned on me that he probably felt the same way about me that I felt about him.

 

I really started to put myself in his shoes and try to understand where he was coming from. Turned out that he had his own demons to face down, just like me. The stresses of providing for his family, worrying about not being a good enough parent, knowing he was leaving me to take on the burden of the rest, because let's face it--he had to work!

 

Once I could truly empathize with him and the effort that he felt he was contributing to our marriage, the best way that he could, things started to change. I changed how I talked to him--took out the you didn't, you shouldn't and changed it to how can I help you, how can we do this. It took a long time with some bumps along the way but we finally became the partnership we wanted to become. We found a way to put all the "stuff" behind us and move forward.

 

Is he perfect? No! Am I? No! He still can push my buttons, just like I can push his. But what is really nice is more often than not, I can see where he is coming from just like he can see where I am coming from.

 

MS--I think the 30's is a dangerous and turbulent time--where most of us are too stretched by family and career. We feel like we are too young to feel like this..suddenly we have become our mothers in these young bodies. We wonder is this all there is? Did I make the right choice in partners? If not, is there still time to find the perfect partner? On and on we think. In a lot of ways we create our own unhappiness.

 

As much as I like to plan for the future, I really have tried to slow down and just enjoy each day as it comes--and I am so grateful that I am not in my 30's anymore.

[Mustang Sally]

MS, I don't think I have said anything that has not been mentioned in this thread. If that seemed to be the case, I apologize for the miscommunication.

Alright.

Fair enough, then.

I know what it is like to tell something to someone in private and have it used against you on a public forum. I would not ever do that to you or anyone. (ask me about that sometime!)

I know that you do.

I think we all want to help and I know deep down you know I am too.

I will let it rest with you are trying to help (not hurt) me.

I will start a new thread on what a jerk I am if I get PM's.

Don't be silly.

 

I just expected you to get it a bit better about my work.

I cannot go into my work situation anymore than that, except to say it is not your average 9 to 5 kind of thing, and no, there is no supervisor that can help me at this point. My H and fam have always been aware of this situation.

 

Again - I know I will have reckoning some day over what I have given to my "job." But it remains what it is. I try to be more efficient at it so that it impinges less on my family life. I will try to do better at this in the future.

[Mustang Sally]

MS--I think the 30's is a dangerous and turbulent time--where most of us are too stretched by family and career. We feel like we are too young to feel like this..suddenly we have become our mothers in these young bodies. We wonder is this all there is? Did I make the right choice in partners? If not, is there still time to find the perfect partner? On and on we think. In a lot of ways we create our own unhappiness.

 

As much as I like to plan for the future, I really have tried to slow down and just enjoy each day as it comes--and I am so grateful that I am not in my 30's anymore.

Thank you for this wisdom, friend. (The entire post, but most especially what I have quoted, above.)

[Lishy]

If you are that miserable and nothing your H can do will make you feel happy, then leave!

[Bobby NoBrains]

Sally, from your posts it's obvious you're not ready to give up, but that you have recognized there's a problem and you're willing to do something about it. That's a great step in the right direction.

 

I feel you need to do a lot of thinking about what it wrong because you tell us the symptoms, but only *you* can identify the real reason/s. Allow yourself to admit the real reasons about what is not working for the two of you. It may be simply that you've fallen out of love for a while, it happens when there's too much stress around you and you need some space and time to yourself to rejuvenate. At such times you tend to focus all your problems and blame them all on the one handy person around you with whom things are not going too well. This makes the problem worse.

 

Maybe take a vacation by yourself. Go visit family or just take a break with some female friends of yours. Make sure you're not giving into any temptation to have a fling, and stick to your man in deed. But rejuvenate and refresh yourself. Take up some new hobbies, do something to change your stagnation. That will help you heal yourself and look at the situation with a fresh (hopefully new) perspective.

 

Without saying he's innocent, I get the feeling you need to find your own happiness inside yourself before you can be happy with him.

 

 

Good luck and God bless ...

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Mustang Sally]

I get the feeling you need to find your own happiness inside yourself before you can be happy with him.

You might be on to something there....

Thank you for the insight.

[Lishy]

I believe that you are just feeling stuck in a rut and bored and you blame him as it is easier than blaming yourself!

 

Is it at all possible to have a short seperation so you can work things out for yourself?

[Mustang Sally]

If you are that miserable and nothing your H can do will make you feel happy, then leave!

Lishy,

I can tell you are a woman of action! Who goes and gets what she wants, when she wants it.

I respect and admire that tremendously.

 

But I think I need to take a little more time and investigate some avenues that have been suggested here, so I can be sure when the "time" comes (whenever that is - in 6 more months?) that I have really done all there is to do, as Kasan and others have advised, should I decide to set my H free and put my kids in a split household.

 

Thanks for weighing in and following this lengthy thead. I appreciate your feedback.

[Mustang Sally]

I believe that you are just feeling stuck in a rut and bored and you blame him as it is easier than blaming yourself!

You are right.

He is a good guy.

I need to get over this "blaming him" type of thinking.

Is it at all possible to have a short seperation so you can work things out for yourself?

I don't think I can accomplish that. It would be too cumbersome, logistically speaking, for the children, and socially/religiously it would be a nightmare for my family.

If it were a "temporary" thing, I don't think it would work for me. The only way I was willing to separate was as a precursor to divorce, which I am not convinced I should pursue anymore.

[Lishy]

Ok, answer me this .... If you HAD to make a choice right here, right now, and whatever you chose would not cause anyone any pain, what life choice would you make?

 

Would you leave him?

[Mustang Sally]

Ok, answer me this .... If you HAD to make a choice right here, right now, and whatever you chose would not cause anyone any pain,

Including myself?

what life choice would you make?

 

Would you leave him?

Damn, girl!

You won't let me off easy, will you?

 

Truth?

Today? Right this very minute?

I'd stay.

 

 

I'm serious.

If he can remain the way he has been, I believe I can mind-over-matter with the 4000 pound gorilla of resentment in my mind and love him - I mean REALLY love him - again.

 

So.

That is what I'm going to try to do.

Knowing neither one of us is perfect.

There will be some backsliding days, to be sure.

(I may have one tomorrow, who can tell?)

But I'm going to give it one more go.

[directx]

I really think you must give it one more go doing something different than the other tries. Otherwise, I can only see the same thing happening.

 

Whats your plan?

Counseling included?

More family time?

More communication?

 

What will be different this time?

 

What?

[Mustang Sally]

Counseling included?

Possibly.

More family time?

Yes. H is making a job change in the coming months that will help this (I hope - time will tell).

More communication?

This is not really my issue. I am very open and forthright with H. He is the one who needed to work on communicating his needs/thoughts/wants. He is doing just that. We have both been working on LISTENING.

What will be different this time?

Well, all the stuff I have said I will try to do to get rid of the resentment, above (see all of thread).

Plus, HE is trying, too, this time. I will have to LET him.

[directx]

I think its a great start and a healthy approach!

 

We wish you all the best of luck!

[Kasan]

Truth?

 

So.

That is what I'm going to try to do.

Knowing neither one of us is perfect.

There will be some backsliding days, to be sure.

(I may have one tomorrow, who can tell?)

But I'm going to give it one more go.

 

Good for you!!!! Know that we will be here to support you through this on whatever decision that you finally make.

 

And thanks for your kind words.

[Bobby NoBrains]

I really think you must give it one more go doing something different than the other tries. Otherwise, I can only see the same thing happening.

 

Whats your plan?

Counseling included?

More family time?

More communication?

 

What will be different this time?

 

What?

 

I already see a different Sally And that, perhaps, may be what is most required ...

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Lishy]

Including myself?

 

Damn, girl!

You won't let me off easy, will you?

 

Truth?

Today? Right this very minute?

I'd stay.

 

 

I'm serious.

If he can remain the way he has been, I believe I can mind-over-matter with the 4000 pound gorilla of resentment in my mind and love him - I mean REALLY love him - again.

 

So.

That is what I'm going to try to do.

Knowing neither one of us is perfect.

There will be some backsliding days, to be sure.

(I may have one tomorrow, who can tell?)

But I'm going to give it one more go.

 

 

Good for you girl ........ i wish u happiness

[Mike1966]

I'm getting in on late in this thread, normally I have been posting in the Second Chance category. I guess this struck a chord with me as I'm likely one the men this is happening to. I have a WW after 15 years of marriage. Do I have my faults, sure................are they anything close to why our marriage should end (IMO, I realize), no way.

 

I'm referring to early in this thread about fantasizing of other men or relationships that would be better than your, grass is greener, you know. That is disasterous, as you well know. There's no way you're giving it 100% in your marriage, or giving your H a chance if you in the least start thinking of other men. As I'm sure you know when you don't fantasize, there is no PERFECT M or W out there. What is likley the case with most divorces in this scenario is that each of you will remarry, only the person you marry, no matter how perfect they may seem, will have a whole new set of faults that your current spouse doesn't have.

 

I guess since I'm living this first-hand with a W who I dearly love, though she is somewhat of a princess I believe. One thing....................men won't "get it" unless you sit them down, have a serious talk with them, and verbalize what the issue is. For women thinking of leaving their husbands, have you done this? My wife said she has mentioned these many things for years and years............well, I can tell you, I sure didn't hear them. Men and women communicate differently so make sure your H really, really understands the seriousness of the issues. If he loves you, as I do my wife, he'll do WHATEVER it takes to make the necessary changes to make it work and make you happy. However, don't pin the poor guy up against the unrealistic image of some OM who will be there to fulfill all your emotional needs and has no other issues for you to deal with................it's just pure fantasy.

 

I hope I don't sound condescending, I'm really trying to be positive about this and help any of you who have these "I love you but I'm not in love with you" feelings for you H. Feelings are just that, feelings...............they change. I firmly believe that if you work on your issues, decide to keep the commitment you made to your H with the vows that said "for better or for worse" that "feelings" of love will return when you see that person trying to make changes in themselves to meet your needs.

[Mustang Sally]

Good points, Mike.

Thank you for your input.