Question for Atheists and those who do NOT believe in God...

[JamesM]

I have two questions for those who believe that there is no God or for those who doubt there is a God.

 

It came to me when I was on another Board (that was for non-theists...ie those that do not believe in a God, or a God who created the world and rules over humans). And the question was asked about what evidence is convincing enough to prove the existence of God. I found the answers fascinating. Some answers were thoughtful, some were humorous, and some were simply sarcastic. But all showed some insight into the individual's mind. So in light of that question, I wanted to ask it and one more here as well.

 

First question...

What led you to believe that there is no God? What were the steps of your journey to atheism/agnosticism/etc.? And since I know that part of the answer will include "no evidence," did you arrive at your conclusions because of lack of evidence, rejection of childhood upbringing (ie brought up in a religious home), because of childhood upbringing (ie no church background), due to hypocrisy of those who believed in a God, and many more possibilities? Your answer can convey most of that without divulging personal details, I think.

 

What evidence would you need...or what evidence would be convincing enough so that you finally said..."There really is a God." Here, I ask only that you refrain from making too many sarcastic remarks and disrespectful comments that would cause those who disagree to retort with posts that are off topic. My objective will not be to present you with that evidence. It is simply a matter of curiosity.

 

A couple of "requirements"....

 

Now, I ask that civility reigns on this thread. My intention is NOT to start dissecting the reasons or evidences needed. Nor is the intention that this thread be used as an attack on religion and God. "Believers," no responses are necessary. Questions can be asked for clarification, but it is not necessary to respond with answers to try and convince the poster that God is real.

 

And please, please..don't begin quoting Scriptures as an attempt to convert these "lost souls."

 

I do not want a lack of respect shown for those who DO believe in a God. Keep the answers as positive as possible. (For example, comments such as "I left God because ALL Christians are ignorant" is not necessary.)

 

And for those who do believe in a God, please refrain from commenting or causing a"fight" over the evidence presented or the answers/remarks that you find offensive. Certainly, no disrespect or intolerance should be shown to the answers given.

 

Personally, I "enjoy" debates with those whom I disagree as a way to learn. It is a way for me to examine my own thinking and a way to change my thinking or find evidence or reason to support my thinking. So, that is my purpose behind this thread.

 

Recent discussions with some very articulate individuals who do not believe in a God has given me a lot to think about. And so I am taking this opportunity to learn more.

 

And for those who respond...thanks.

[Trialbyfire]

For clarification, an agnostic is someone who doesn't believe or disbelieve in God. He/she is open to proof of such or negating of such.

[JamesM]

For clarification, an agnostic is someone who doesn't believe or disbelieve in God. He/she is open to proof of such or negating of such.

 

 

Thank you. I knew that but in my haste left that out. Basically these questions are for anyone not convinced that there is a God.

[tanbark813]

I consider myself agnostic, but personally, I think that the possibility of a higher power would more likely be some kind of unifying force behind all things or a universal conscious rather than some personified "God". To me, it just makes more sense.

 

What led you to believe that there is no God?

 

I have more of a problem with religion than I do with the concept of God. To an anthill, I'm a god. I could watch over it and have total control over whether they lived or died, how much food was available, how much resources they had, etc. But why would I? Why would some all-powerful being waste time directly lording over what would essentially be ants to him.

 

I suppose my disagreement with Christianity also factors into my disbelief of the Christian concept of God. The idea that an all-powerful being would punish me to an eternity of misery simply for not believing in him doesn't seem to line up. It doesn't strike me as being supremely wise, which God should supposedly be.

 

I've also never liked the fact that Christianity relies to a great extent on appeals to fear. "Believe in this or else..." is a weak argument. If you have to rely on fear to sell your ideas, what does that say about their merits?

 

Christianity also, IMO, promotes false virtues. It promotes weakness while disguising it as humility or tolerance. Nietzsche explains it much better and more in depth than I ever could.

 

My parents were both raised in religious homes but never really bought into it themselves. As such, they never took me to church although I did attend with my Grandmother on occasion. The whole thing just never sat right with me. There were too many holes in the story and too much hypocrisy among people who follow its rules.

 

Finally, a belief in religion always seemed like a mental crutch too me. "If I believe in God, He will get me through this..." or "It's in God's hands now..." or even "the Lord works in mysterious ways..." just seems like such a cop out. It's an alleviation of personal responsibility. It's basically saying, "I'm too weak to handle this so hopefully some mythical father figure will save me so I don't have to face my problems and solve them on my own." Man created the idea of God as a father figure so he wouldn't feel lonely.

 

What evidence would you need...or what evidence would be convincing enough so that you finally said..."There really is a God."

 

It would have to be pretty dramatic. Something on the order of God appearing in the sky and speaking to me.

 

Lastly, the terms "Believer" and "Non-believer" have always bothered me. I consider myself a "believer", I just believe in something other than Christianity. When the terms are used by religious folks, it's kind of a subtle mocking and subtle way of saying "I'm right, and you're wrong."

[Saxis]

I think a few things led me to my viewpoint of religion. First, I was forced into the catholic church through my childhood. The "fun" of it was just taken out of me at that point, and then I started questioning it. I believe in the sciences, so proof has always appealed to me. If someone can find the proof......... you get the idea.

 

Here's one of the biggest sticklers I have with the idea of religion: Heaven and Hell. I absolutely love the question; "Do you believe in heaven?". You know what it leads to when I say NO? "You're going to hell!". "Great, I don't believe in that either!" I see it as ignorance, and I guess it really is bliss, at least in the minds of the religious nuts who are so quick to pass judgement, going against everything that they "supposedly" believe in. This is probably the biggest proof I can find that God doesn't exist.

[Fayi]

this is how I look at it:

Imagine someone's standing in front of you holding their hand behind their back asking you if they're holding an apple(there is a God)or nothing(there's no God) in their hand. I would say "I don't know", maybe the person would say "but what do you believe?", and most theists I met doesn't understand how you cannot believe in one or the other, well, this is how look at it: I have absolutely no hint or clue as to what's behind his back, and to me it seems that what's behind his back doesn't really affect my life in anyway which means I don't have to believe anything about it, doesn't mean I'm not curious, but because no theory is more likely than the other I can't honestly favour one of them over the other.

 

Well I think I would believe that he was holding an apple in his hand only if he'd show it to me.

 

But I feel ok with not knowing what's behind his back, would be nice to know, but not neccessary.

[quankanne]

"Non-theists" – same as agnostics or as atheists? Terminology always trips me up!

 

BTW, great thread you've started. I think that posts by those who don't buy into a "concept" of God is going to be of huge help in future dialogues, because the folks who *do* believe will have a better understanding of where they're coming from.

[Poboy]

What led you to believe that there is no God?

 

1.my upbringing as i was never forced into religion , gods etc and was given complete freedom to do as i wish.

2.my higher education in science.

3. my influences over the years .. some members of my family , teachers , friends , authors & books i read , my personality.

 

What evidence would you need...or what evidence would be convincing enough so that you finally said..."There really is a God."

 

physical proof. if thats not there , i cant believe. the day someone comes up and gives such a proof , i will believe.

[oppath]

This is no longer a passionate issue for me. I can explain part of my transformation from a devout catholic to an agnostic (or more appropriately, a god-fearing atheist) in highschool...

 

• Jesus was a man.
  
• Jesus was without sin.
  
• But as a man, biologically, he would have nocturnal emissions, even if he didn't get his noodle wet.
  
• But according to the old testament, nocturnal emissions were a sin.
  
• Therefore, Jesus could not have biologically been a man.

It was those types of kind-of sarcastic thinking that really got me thinking. When it came to organized religion, I didn't believe in the personification of God. A God wanting to be worshiped, and punishing those that did not, seemed not only human, but not a good human. It seems arrogant and vain. The western god was far too personified.

 

And ultimately, the more I learned about science, the more I felt there wasn't a need for a God. The world was equally as beautiful and significant for me as a human without a god, significant not in that I am somehow special from other organisms, but that I am similar. There is a divine beauty to that. And it is not faith in the scientific method -- perhaps a different ontological basis can supplant it and be better for explaining the relationship between things -- but I can go out and perform the very experiments that I've read about, ones performed centuries ago. It's not faith. It's experience that something works, which is quite different than faith. I don't have faith that I can use the finite-difference method to numerically solve a differential equation; I can use my ability to reason to understand the principles and criteria and TEST TEST TEST. Everything I do is testable. I can prove, disprove, demonstrate something, or the results can be inconclusive. With God, there all no tests. It is all inconclusive, so anything short of Michigan winning every game the rest of this season 70-0 and winning the national championship, can not make me lean towards a god.

[norajane]

I feel the way Tanbark does, for the most part.

 

My parents were brought up in religious homes, but I was not. My mom believes in God, but my dad is agnostic, leaning toward atheist. I grew up in a neighborhood with plenty of religion all around me (mostly Catholic, Eastern Orthodox Christian, Baptist, Jewish, and JH), so I was immersed in it by virtue of my friends. And I dated a minister's son for 6 years (United Church of Christ, he was also an atheist, btw) so had plenty of church along the way. Oh, and my last long term bf grew up in a Lutheran family...his mom is waiting for the Rapture.

 

All of that, added to my studies in school of art, literature, history, and science, plus actual religious studies in college which included the Bible, added up to my conclusion that religions and gods and goddesses were made up by people who wanted to control others for the sake of power and to regulate society's behavior. And the religions were followed by people who needed to believe in a god or gods and goddesses for various reasons: to explain things they did not understand; because of their need to believe there is more after death; because of their need to believe there is a meaning or purpose to our existence; or because of their need to believe we are not 'alone' and there is someone with a plan for our lives and oversight and guidance.

 

I'm completely and throughly turned off by religions, the intolerance of others who do not believe in their particular religion, the corruption, and certainly all the violence done in the name of, or on behalf of, religion.

 

And I cannot even begin to believe any of the far-fetched stuff religions expect people to believe...it's stories, mythology, the stuff of movies and literature, fables, tall tales, etc. Heaven and hell, what? Who's to say we weren't all bad in a previous life and THIS, EARTH is hell...how do you know it's not? And who's to say GOD is anything about being good or bad, anyway? How did our morality and right and wrong get all tied up with a god? Why is that god's purview? Taking Tanbark's antfarm example, is Tan really all-fired up about the ants' morality and whether they are bad or good? Or is that Santa Claus's purview? It's all conjecture and theory and there is no reason to believe any religious theory over another.

 

To me, the only real reason to actually believe in a god might be related to the miracle of life itself...BUT, I see how un-miraculous it is...it's a biological function, and an incredibly common one, so I don't see life as a miracle. It's biological, cells dividing and developing...and I do not see human life any differently from animal life - meaning, I don't think there is a special purpose for humans' existence, nor do I believe there is a god with a special plan for humans.

 

I think humans do what all other species do - survive and procreate and perpetuate the species as best we can. We're the same as every other species, no more, no less, in the big picture. My life has no more meaning in the grand scheme of things than a cicada's life...17 years underground, a four week frenzy of sex, after which they just die. There is no life for us after death, except, perhaps, in the memories of the living until they, too, one day die.

 

I don't think anything would make me believe in god unless god came to me and spoke to me.

[Darkzen]

I believe in a greater power, but not as a conscience being. Nothing can explain "existence", except a leap of blind faith. It comes down to the "what came first, the chicken or the egg" debate. I'm talking existence in the abstract sense, not the literal. Before existence, there cannot be anything and if there was nothing, how did things come to exist?

 

We can trace existence to the sub atomic level, but no further. I personally don't have the answer to the mystery. Yet I refuse to believe a thinking being would do this by design. Give us certain desires and impulses, yet want us to only follow some of them and not others. So, I believe there is a "source" in which everything came to be (and it's not something I can fathom, let alone understand). That's the only piece of my belief system that is based upon blind faith. Everything else is based on "cause and effect".

 

 

I see all religion as way for man to explain the unexplained. The more we understand the universe, they less religion will control us.

 

I fell from the the top level escalator at the Sherman oak's galleria when I was maybe 4 years old. It was a good 30+ foot fall to the bottom level. A stranger caught me at the bottom, tipped his hat and disappeared into the crowd. I don't attribute this to a higher power though, I just believe that I was exceptionally lucky. I've also been hit by two cars at a young age and suffered nothing more than some bruising... I think we'd all like to believe in magic/miracles/love/etc... but the truth of the matter is it can all be explained with reasoning and science, that just isn't romantic enough for most people though. People love their drama after all, it makes us feel alive.

[lindya]

IWhat led you to believe that there is no God?

 

It's more a question of having no convincing evidence on which I could base a belief. I can certainly see the attraction of hoping there is a loving, spiritual parent figure watching over me, and the possibility of an afterlife I could be blissfully happy in. Who wouldn't want that?

 

To my mind, religion involves regression into childhood and all the beliefs you have (that there's always a strong, protective figure to watch over you, that life is fair, that the good guy wins in the end) in childhood.

 

What evidence would you need...or what evidence would be convincing enough so that you finally said..."There really is a God."

 

If I were to choose to believe in God it would be because I found the notion irresistibly comforting, and really needed that comfort - but the person I am can't whole-heartedly believe in something solely because it comforts me to do so. To me, developing religious beliefs would involve closing my eyes rather than opening them.

[sb129]

I'm completely and throughly turned off by religions, the intolerance of others who do not believe in their particular religion, the corruption, and certainly all the violence done in the name of, or on behalf of, religion.

I think humans do what all other species do - survive and procreate and perpetuate the species as best we can. We're the same as every other species, no more, no less, in the big picture. My life has no more meaning in the grand scheme of things than a cicada's life...17 years underground, a four week frenzy of sex, after which they just die. There is no life for us after death, except, perhaps, in the memories of the living until they, too, one day die.

 

I don't think anything would make me believe in god unless god came to me and spoke to me.

 

Norajane has taken the words out of my mouth really.

 

I was brought up as Church of England, which as far as religions go, is pretty tolerant.

 

However, the more I learned about other religions, and biology, I felt that there were too many contradictions, far too much intolerance, and no substantial evidence.

 

How could ONE religion be right or superior over any others? What one was it? Why? How could people say they were god-fearing good people, yet be totally intolerant of people who didn't believe the same as them?

 

How could people allow things like the Holocaust to happen, and still think they had a pathway to heaven? What of all the Holocaust victims?

The Jews have been persecuted for hundreds of years, yet they continue to believe that their religion is worth following, and that they are still right- what if all their suffering in the name of their religion has been for nothing? (ie no heaven, no afterlife)

 

The evidence for evolution is, to me, too extensive to refute. Its visible, tangible and quantifiable.

 

And as Lindya says here

 

It's more a question of having no convincing evidence on which I could base a belief.

 

I would love to be able to believe in a god, but I need more evidence than hearsay, history and a book of (at times very good) moral fables.

 

I can certainly see the attraction of hoping there is a loving, spiritual parent figure watching over me, and the possibility of an afterlife I could be blissfully happy in. Who wouldn't want that?

 

If I were to choose to believe in God it would be because I found the notion irresistibly comforting, and really needed that comfort - but the person I am can't whole-heartedly believe in something solely because it comforts me to do so. To me, developing religious beliefs would involve closing my eyes rather than opening them.

 

Exactly. Its not a burning issue with me, I don't seek to disprove the existence of a god come hell or high water, and I don't automatically discredit people who do believe either.

I just have no need to believe, and feel that my life is full enough without religion or a god in it.

I have said before on these boards that I have close family members who belong to different branches of christianity- and fight about it. Two siblings who criticise and look down on eachother because of the different ways they follow the SAME god.

 

To me, that is sad, and wrong. I know their mother would be devastated at their behaviour if she was still alive.

 

The final thing that has further emphasised my disbelief is the advent of what appear to be "made-up" religions such as Scientology and Mormonism.

 

The histories of these relatively young religions revolve around a central figure who is a bit of a megalomaniac and fancies themselves as a bit of a power-figure. Conveniently, the golden plates on which the Book of Mormon was supposedly written have never materialised again.

 

L.Ron Hubbard used to be a science fiction writer, and then funnily enough, became the head of a religion that reads just like... a science fiction novel!

 

These two religions have been used as smokescreens for some appalling behaviour.

The Rafferty brothers murdered their sister in law and her 10mth old daughter because "god told them to". WTF? How can that be a godly instruction? They maintain that they are innocent in the eyes of the lord.

 

Lisa McPherson died because of the gross neglect of the scientology church. She desperately needed psychiatric medical help, but because the scientologists don't believe in psychiatry, (which is a recognised branch of medicine, subject to rigorous regulations, controls, research, peer review etc etc) she died while "in their care".

 

The scientologists are hostile, and have major issues with anyone who dares to speak out against them, which makes them hostile and incredibly intolerant.

Any religion that requires you to pay to be a member is dodgy IMO.

How can it be fair that the more money you give the church- the higher up you go, hence the closer you get to whatever deity that church follows... never mind that the money sometimes comes from ill-gotten means, or is a proportion of a members salary.

 

There are some churches which are led by people whose luxurious lifestyles are being funded by the followers of the church. The followers are often earning minimum wage, yet are still funding the church and its leaders lifestyle.

That to me is wrong too.

 

And that is why I find it hard to believe in either religion or God.

[sally4sara]

I was raised southern baptist. Being that I was very involved in my grandmother's church, I never questioned if God really existed. When I was 13, I was very close friends with my pastor's daughter and his wife was my Sunday School teacher. One day, in front of everyone, she confessed to having an affair with some guy. Our pastor then stood up and said he was stepping down; he obviously could not manage a congregation AND attend to his duties as a husband or this wouldn't be happening. I was stunned and looked at Tina who was sitting next to me with her sister and brother; it was obvious this was the first they knew of the situation too. I felt horrible for them! I started questioning all the things they had told me about living for God. There was one story in the Bible in particular that restored my faith amidst these new questions I had. It was the story of Nnaman. He was a highly respected general of the pharoh's army but his one embarrassment in life was he was a leper. He sought a healer his wife heard of that performed miracles in the name of the Christian God. The healer told him to bathe in the Nile 7 times and he would be healed. Nnaman was pissed! People bathed in the Nile all the time so no one should have Leprosy if that was the case! But his buddies convinced him to try and it worked. The message I got was that God didn't want the same thing from everyone. If that be the case, then organized religion was a crock as far as telling you how to live in favor of God.

So from 13 to 32 I lived comfortable with the concept of what God wanted from us was those moments where we knew what we should or shouldn't do but they conflicted with what we wanted to do.

Then I learned more about physics. Quantum Physics in particular. I now FIRMLY believe in an Original Creator, but the idea that it is saddened by someone's abuse of drugs, life as a homosexual, choice to abort, or have and affair seems thin. Likewise that it should become happy if I thanked it before eating food or waited to have sex till I was married. The concept that if you pray hard enough you will get that job you interviewed for or if you don't it's because God has a different plan for you.......these beliefs only seem like us putting a Human spin on the wants and motives of something that isn't and never was a Human. Why would something with powers we can't even conceive of think like one of us? I do consider there to be a possibility of an after life. We are energy and it cannot be destroyed so after our meat expires, that energy has to go elsewhere or become something else. I don't know if we would be aware of our former selves after that change, but the concept of going to Hell.......just doesn't sound likely.

I suppose I would go back to believing in a Christian God if it showed up in a convincing manner and had a chat with me.

[JamesM]

Fascinating replies...everyone of them. Thank you, and I am hoping for more. For me it is enlightening to see the reasons for doubting/questioning/not believing in a God.

 

And thanks for no one stepping in and analyzing or criticizing the replies.

[allina]

I am am a hardcore atheist. My reason is that I find the idea of an invisible, all powerful man living in the sky and having control over everyone and everything absurd.

 

I also cannot grasp how believers can look at a 5 million year old fossil yet claim that the world is just two thousand years old, I mean how do you ignore straight forward proven facts?

 

It seems like people that believe in god have to dismiss so much about the real world to make their beliefs fit.

 

There are many many many many other things I don't understand about believers and yet another set of things that cause me to have a great dislike for them.

[burning 4 revenge]

I find it fascinating that the Epicurians were hardcore atheists more than two thousand years ago. It just goes to show that there were always believers and disbelievers

[Trialbyfire]

I sway between being agnostic, an atheist and a theist. Go figure...

 

Regardless, I grew up with religion but fell away from the church and will never go back. I do respect those who do good deeds and the community spirit of any organized religion.

 

What led you to believe that there is no God?

 

It's not so much that I don't believe in God, more how can God allow so many tragedies to happen, all in his name?

 

What evidence would you need...or what evidence would be convincing enough so that you finally said..."There really is a God."

 

High tea together would be a civilized way for He and I to come to an understanding and perhaps a return to the fold.

[sb129]

High tea together would be a civilized way for He and I to come to an understanding and perhaps a return to the fold.

 

 

As long as the cakes were on him though, right TBF?

 

This thread has been really interesting, and I too am impressed with the lack of criticism within it.

 

Keep it up guys!

[Trialbyfire]

As long as the cakes were on him though, right TBF?

Pay to play... The finger sandwiches are also to die for.

[burning 4 revenge]

I love youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLe9qrmxTP8

[lovelorcet]

I guess in the end I would have to classify myself as agnostic because given reasonable evidence of a God I would consider that evidence. But I have a major problem with organized religions as a whole, as I see them as one of the most evil things man has even come up with. Any good done by any religion is far out weighted by the pain they have caused.

 

As for your first question:

What led you to believe that there is no God?

 

I would say turn it on its head, what would possibly make you believe in God? What evidence is there? Just because someone explained the bible to you does not make it true. There is the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (google it if you want) and if you were to read about it you would think it is absolutely absurd but the truth is there is no more evidence for God than there is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

Some people think that we as humans need religion for a system of morals and I think that is just a bunch of crap. I have enough faith in humans to come up with a systems of morals without any religious influences.

 

In the end I see religion as a force which is used to control and divide humans.

 

For the second part:

What evidence would you need...or what evidence would be convincing enough so that you finally said..."There really is a God."

 

Actually, you would not have to show me very much at all. The laws of the universe don't just randomly change. You drop an apple, it falls to the ground, thats gravity... You can drop an apple in space and it doesn't fall, its not God holding up the apple but why the apple doesn't fall can still be explained.

 

As far as I can see there are no answers in the bible. Where did we come from? Adam and Eve? I don't think so...

 

I work with evolution and developmental biology everyday and it does get frustrating having to deal with religious people. Telling me evolution is not real is like explaining to a group or engineers that the only reason why the bridge they are building is standing there is because God's hand is holding it.

 

Evolution is a major part of modern biology and that is the same group of theories used to develop cures for many diseases. You can't fully understand HIV, cancer, malaria, TB, etc... without evolution.

 

Therein lies another major problem I have with religion, it breeds ignorance.

[oppath]

My gf asked me if I "could meet anyone from history, who would it be?" I said Jesus.

 

I then asked her if she "could have a beer with anyone from history, who would it be?" She said Einstein.

 

For me to have evidence of god, it would certainly take some of those finger sandwiches TBF mentions, and I'd need god to explain to me how he could operate outside and around physics. Physics can't explain everything, but it explains most things, and is constantly explaining more, and most importantly, it is testable.

 

And as I mentioned earlier, from a biological standpoint, people miss the point. All organisms are essentially equally evolved (or adapted) to their niche. Humans may be more intelligent, but we are no or more less evolved than the southeastern Australian stumptailed bush wombat. Evolution and biology can't explain everything either, but they explain things well, and will continue to explain more in the future.

 

The significance of being human is not that we are special, but that we are similar to other organisms, sharing common genes and cell functions. It really is beautiful. I feel it is more beautiful and significant than being created by a humanistic God.

 

Absent of some physically inexplainable event I witness, I simply can't believe, as life is more significant and special to me absent a god than with one.

[Ilass]

Very interesting documentry on this subject: http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

 

"Zeitgeist was created as a non-profit filmiac expression to inspire people to start looking at the world from a more critical perspective and to understand that very often things are not what the population at large think they are."

[Moai]

My father was a Baptist minister. My mother is religious in the way people are who go to church on Easter and Christmas. Every once in a while when I was younger my mom would think Sunday school was important, so I'd have to go for a few weeks, then it would taper off. I learned nothing, and thought church was boring--I suppose how most kids do. I had no idea that you could NOT believe in god at this point.

 

Both of my sisters had crushes on Mormon guys in high school and toyed with the idea of converting, but didn't.

 

When I was 17 my older sister came home from college and had become Born Again. I talked to her about it, and the thing she said freaked me out. I becamse somewhat terrified of Hell, and one night while she and I were talking she asked me to turn my stereo off. I looked over, and I was sure that Satan was across the room. I wasnot going over there. My sister walked over, and it seemed like light emanated form her, and the feeling of forboding disappeared. I wept, and she and I prayed together. I gave my lifeto Jesus, and it was a fantastic experience.

 

From that time on it started to wear off, I guess. I still considered myself a Christian and saved, but I didn't read the Bible much, nor did I go to church.

 

I ended up going to a Catholic college for a couple of years, and took Formation of Christian Doctrine I and II, The Reformation, and World Religions. I realized then that I was firmly Protestant, but that is as far as it went.

 

I took science classes, and it didn't seem to me that they contradicted faith at all. It was all an explanation for the question of how god works. I thought that the world was intelligently designed--it was obvious.

 

I lived with a guy who taught at a Lutheran school, my first experience with a Creationist. We didn't alk about it much, though.

 

I read Mark Twain's "Letters From The Earth" and found it hilarious.

 

About fifteen years or so ago I saw a story about Creationists trying to get their point of view taught in schools--I think in Kansas. I thought that whole problem has been solved at that point. At the time, I thought that if there was still controversy, there might be something to Creationism, so I started learning about it, and in the process evolutionary biology in greater detail.

 

What I learned shocked me. I could not believe the disingenuous nature of Creationists, and the bold-faced lies that they told people to advance their agenda. I read more and more, and joined some Yahoo! groups and began to debate. As I did, I learned more about logical fallacies, cosmology, and physis. My faith vanished, but I still respected the faith of others.

 

I read The Age Of Reason by Thomas Paine, and the Bible all the way through twice. I began to familiarie myself with great atheist thinkers, as well as other atheists in the forums. I learned about the Nature of evidence, and how science truly works.

 

And I became happy. Ecstaically so. The world made sense, and it became wasier and easier to spot the falalcies and wishful thinking that most believers engage in. Televangelists also pushed me toward atheism, for obvious reasons....

 

I didn't make this up, but it is a good point. Look at any religion besides your own. Isn't it obvious to you that they are misguided? They just don't get it, right? Well, that's how I view them all, because they all have the same evidence--none. I realized that not one question about god (Why do bad things happen to good people? How can a universally good god allow evil? If one can't know the mind of god, why choose on religion over another? etc.) had a remotely passable answer.

 

Then 9/11 happened. I began to realie the horrific, evi linfluence that religion has on humanity, and that if these delusions aren't abandoned they will destroy us.

 

I have since read the Bible several times, and studied more doctrinal issues and some New Age beliefs. It interests me a great deal, but the more I read the sadder it makes me, to an extent.

 

So there you go.