i know that i'm not the only one

[brooke 11]

hi all, this is my first time here and i feel incredibly guilty about being here and discussing my family.

 

basically i need some advice. how do i break the chains of emotional guilt?

 

my mother, since i was about 5, always told me that if her or my father died, it would be my fault. today i am 37 and she still continues to tell me that. actually she told me that she never wants to speak to me again, that i am worthless and good for nothing.

 

the story is:

i am one of three children, the only girl, in a greek family. my parents always wanted a submissive child and unfortunately for them, it wasn't to be.

both my parents, especially my mother, ensured that none of the siblings would be close by dividing and conquering us. each sibling is suspicious of the other, and would like to see the other collapse into a heap. my parents are also suspicious of their children and believe that their kids only want to take their property etc. paranoia runs rife it would seem.

 

i have been emotionally, physically and psychologically abused for years, and as my wise parents put it "i have a big mouth so i deserve it". still to this day i am chastised for not dressing correctly, chastised for being a bad parent (no evidence of this!) and of not being a good wife (as i don't wash my husband's feet!). my parents serve to humiliate me in front of others, in public and continue to bring up my naughty teenage years where i dared to rebel.

 

despite being bullied, harassed, beaten and abused, i continued to drive my parents around, do their shopping, take them here and there etc yet they believe that i have never done anything for them.

 

today my mother informed me that i was the devil's child and she would never speak to me again. that i will live a life of guilt and remember her words when she died. all this because my young child used their phone one day after school and made 4 mobile phone calls that totalled $2.79.

 

logically i know that my parents and siblings have no respect for themselves or each other. in many ways, my family resemble the costanzas from seinfeld.

 

emotionally however, i am crippled. i feel guilty, ashamed and embarassed. i will log off from here and cry myself silly for even discussing how pathetic my parents and siblings behave. for discussing and revealing their ugly secrets. my family want each other to suffer, to end up with no friends, no money, no anything, just to prove their point! even at my own wedding, they were taking bets that my husband would see the light and leave me within 12 months. i don't think they cope with the fact that we are still married after 14 years.

 

i know that there are normal families out there, families that talk to their adult children, ones that can smile with them and actually not want to see their destruction.

 

excuse my incoherency.

 

i know it's not my fault but how do i get over this? they will never change and either will i. how do i overcome the feelings of immense grief and guilt? my parents are in their early 70s, not in great health and are hell bent to make me feel like the devil incarnate. i feel bad that they are ill and elderly and certainly crippled with guilt.

 

please advise!

thanks!

[Cobra_X30]

Hi,

 

My mom is a crazy nutjob too! Luckily Dad has gotten better over the years... but I pretty much just have no contact with mom, and I limit contact with dad when he is a jerk.

 

You cant fix them... just change how you interact with them. I truely feel for your situation. Take heart that your a better person!

[MattsAngel]

I have gone through similar...not as extensive as what you have had to endure though. I am so very sorry for your heartache & your parents should be beyond ashamed of themselves ...

 

Your intelligence and good nature are very evident throughout your post..

Your parents and siblings have put a poison in your soul that needs to come out.... think of it as astringent to a bee sting -- counseling could be the astringent to remove the poison that your parents so wrongfully put in you...

 

I have a lot of this poison too..mainly because of my Mom.. I, myself, am starting counseling soon... I, like you, wanted to please my Mom but nothing ever was nor will it be good enough. I will never measure up.. There is a lot of pain over never getting to be really close to my Mom.

She just the other day told me that my fiance and I shouldn't bother having a *real* wedding because it wasn't like anyone was going to bother to show up anyway seeing as to how they don't believe it will really happen..and because of my "negative" life... Negative meaning that I don't tote their hard core religious line to a "t" - including that I should never wear anything remotely sexy..and that since I, at almost 37 yrs old, am a "Mom" afterall...should grow to accept that it is "ok to get pudgier..gain weight..look like everyone else..and you should stop dressing so sexy..that is wrong for a woman OF YOUR AGE being a mother and all"....

 

I am here for you & hope that you will consider counseling as I have.. the poison they put in us is so toxic...and I know neither you nor I want our kids to have that poison either...

 

Big Hugs,

Kimberly

[Yosef]

THis is something I worry about in the world.

 

Your parents discourage you constantly and try to put you down. They call you the devil's child over an accident. It's uncalled for.

 

You are doing the right thing. Even though your parents seem to despise you, you still take time from your own life to help them. The will to do good deserves no rewards, for it's a reward in itself.

 

Well, there are a few options you can take to get rid of some or most of that grief:

 

1) Meditation

2) Reassurance

3) Counseling

4) Religion

 

Meditation opens up your mind and relieves the worlds problems from you, little by little.

Constant reassurance from peers that you're a good person is always refreshing.

Counseling can give you stronger advice. You may think of it as for poeple who are crazy, but anyone who is struggling in life and wants to find a way out should go to a counselor, because they're purpose is only to make you feel better.

Religion often offers people a reason and a solution about problems that involve everyday living. It can provide the same relief as a councelor without medications, but may require a change of life-style depending on the religion.

[norajane]

Objectively, you know you're parents are insane and you shouldn't let their insanity make you feel like you do. However, they've instilled the fears and guilt in you over the years, so it's very hard to let it all go now.

 

Therapy is one way you can work through all this. Your parents had you under their thumb for many years, but you don't have to continue to be so in your head. Find a good therapist that deals with family issues/parental fall-out. You don't owe your parents silence - you owe yourself the relief of putting down the burdens they heaped on your shoulders all these years.

[brooke 11]

thanks so much for all your responses. it seems that we are all in similar positions and that we all have the same issues of guilt to deal with.

 

i just need to work out a way to overcome the guilt and the emotions of not dealing with all the situations well. my parents hold resentment and disdain towards me for my overreactions. my overreactions are legitimate due to a myriad of issues that have arisen over the past decades.

 

i know that my guilt is irrational and that we are all human and imperfect, but why do i always feel that i have to rescue my parents from themselves? i'm constantly reminded of their physical frailty, their reduced capacity to freely move and the 'sacrifices' they made for me.

 

i will certainly look at counselling - i have never really opened up during a counselling session mainly due to fear of judgement. as you would all know, many parents have instilled major hangups and insecurities into their children!

 

again thanks. it's reassuring to know that i really am not satan's child!

[Kasan]

I have similar issues with my parents--my father was a "good military man" which for him was all about control. I never understood why my mother would let him get away with all the things that he did to her and us.

 

I truly became the child of "satan" as a form of rebellion...finally had enough and left at 18... vowed never to marry a man like my father and i succeeded.

 

I also made it an oath to never treat my kids like I was treated and I can honestly say I broke the pattern of control and abuse.

 

Now my parents are quite elderly and in poor health like yours and I also feel the need to rescue my parents from themselves. There were also years that I didn't have much contact with them, because it simply hurt too much. I forgave them a long time ago or I would have lost my mind.

 

Forgiveness allowed me to have a relationship with them. Dragging around all that anger and resentment for all those years just made me physically ill.

 

To get to this point took monumental work. Reading, reading, and reading and talking with people with the same issues.

 

It is beyond my comprehension how an innocent child is guilty of anything other than just trying to be. I am convinced that some people should never have children.

 

You have nothing to feel guilty about!!!!

[curiousnycgirl]

Counseling will help you tremendously! You are never going to be able to change your parents' behaviour, but you can change your reaction to it.

 

You need to learn that these abusive lines are just that, manipulative abuse.

 

My mother has continued to try this stuff on my for all 42 years of my life. I finally started therapy with the RIGHT therapist (I cannot emphasize enough how important that is) and over the past 5 years have begun to find some peace.

 

I have also foudn the courage to lay down the law. Any and all forms of public embarrassment are now completely prohibited. Very simply I told my mother if that continues, I will leave - and I did! I did not throw a fit, I did not respond to her BS in public, I just left. I explained later, calmly, that I had already told her how I would handle public embarrassment, and I did what I said I would do. And further advised I would do it again. Eventually it stopped.

 

My therapist does not understand why I continue to have communication with my parents - but he has helped me shift the balance of power enough so that I can live a healthier and happier life.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Kasan]

"Child of Satan" how the heck could we not be anything else? You can only take so much before you rebel.

 

The rebellion comes at a high price though...promiscuity, alcohol and drug abuse, all by products of family.

 

The lucky ones, or should I say the ones still standing, manage to connect with someone who will change their perceptions. A paradigm shift of sorts.

 

From this we either grow stronger or fall by the wayside. I am convinced that if we are lucky enough to grow stronger or still stand we need to do what we can to help all those who are still in the trenches.

 

A "pay it forward" effect.

[brooke 11]

ah yes, the pay it forward effect, but do you remember what happened to that cute little boy?? i do know what you mean and i that's precisely what i try to do.

 

i'm convinced that all this negativity, over the years, has caused me to lose many opportunies, both in career and friendships, due to my low sense of worth.

 

a question for you kasan, i too don't hold a grudge against my parents, but they do refuse to speak to me. i was very naughty last week and left a plastic bag lying around her lounge room. yes i did not pick it up! that began the first part of the war! oh and my daughter stupidly rang her friend's mobile from their phone, which cost around $3. i did state that i would pay. suffice to say, the war began, my mother won't speak to me as i am worthless and has now revoked her christmas invitation to my house.

so the question is, or should i say, scenario, parents refusing to speak for something so trivial, how on earth could you get them to speak again? my father muttered hello to me the other day when i forced my face in front of his, before threatening to beat me with his walking stick!

[brooke 11]

curiousnycgirl, isn't public embarassment one of the worst forms of humiliation? i really don't understand why parents, especially mothers, enjoy it so much!

 

given that old habits are almost impossible to break, your mother is not going to change (maybe she will!), why did you feel the need to explain yourself to her after you walked out? i'm really interested because i seem to do the same thing and it's almost as if i keep hitting my head against a brick wall.

 

is your relationship with her, post counselling, improving?

[Kasan]

ah yes, the pay it forward effect, but do you remember what happened to that cute little boy?? i do know what you mean and i that's precisely what i try to do.

 

i'm convinced that all this negativity, over the years, has caused me to lose many opportunies, both in career and friendships, due to my low sense of worth.

 

a question for you kasan, i too don't hold a grudge against my parents, but they do refuse to speak to me. i was very naughty last week and left a plastic bag lying around her lounge room. yes i did not pick it up! that began the first part of the war! oh and my daughter stupidly rang her friend's mobile from their phone, which cost around $3. i did state that i would pay. suffice to say, the war began, my mother won't speak to me as i am worthless and has now revoked her christmas invitation to my house.

so the question is, or should i say, scenario, parents refusing to speak for something so trivial, how on earth could you get them to speak again? my father muttered hello to me the other day when i forced my face in front of his, before threatening to beat me with his walking stick!

 

to that cute little girl. Because I remember, I made sure that "my" family was safe and that my kids never went through what I went through.

 

I also moved 100 miles away which gave me the distance I needed to become me.

 

My anger is what gave me strength (sounds weird, I know) and some good people that I met along the way made me see that all this self destructive behavior was hurting me and not "them".

 

My anger helped me to set the necessary boundaries with my parents. I guess that mentally, I drew a line in the sand...if they crossed it I withdrew. It was all I could do. About ten years ago, I confronted my mother about our childhood, and she cried and told me "What could I do"?

 

That was the defining moment for me. She just didn't get it, refused to see it, and couldn't validate what I was talking about. So essentially in her mind it never happened.

 

How do you argue with that? In the past, that would have sent me into a tailspin...but not that day, or the day after. I finally saw it for what it was....my issue to deal with. I would never get what I was looking for from these people.

 

I have always had an attitude which is probably what enabled me to change the pattern of my life.

 

I do know that I will never be someone's doormat, or second best, because I deserve better! No one will ever make me feel less than what I am!

 

You can choose how you take the negativity that you receive. You can either say, yep they're right or hell no they are wrong.

 

Change the tape you have playing in your head about being worthless and focus on all that you have accomplished without their help.

 

Make a list of your accomplishments and you will see how large it is. Focus on this list and gather strength from it. Set some much needed boundaries with your parents. You don't have to be cruel, but you don't need to be put down any more.

 

Your parents know only one way--understand this...the only change that you can make is how you react to them. This you can control!

 

One day at a time!

[curiousnycgirl]

Brooke -

 

I felt the need to explain it later to reinforce the fact that I had set a boundary and was sticking to my end of the deal. If she continued the bad behaviour, I would most certainly deliver as I had promised - I would walk away. It is the consequence of HER actions.

 

In your situation I would say your parents are being ridiculous - and I am willing to bet they will re-invite you to christmas. The question is what do you do when that happens. If it were me, I would already have made alternate plans - and I would stick to them.

 

No reason to be ugly about it - just say gee you advised we were not invited, so we made other arrangements. Perhaps next time.

 

Your parents need to start taking responsibility for their words/actions. It is very hard/impossible to change some one else's behaviour - so all you can do is focus on your side of the equation. You have to stop allowing them to push and pull you.

 

My parents were both enraged with me over something trivial when I was 18 - and they called me and told me to not bother coming home, as I no longer had a home. So I didn't. I disappeared for 2 weeks, returned to collect my things (most especially my cat) and left again. For 2 years they did not know if I was alive or dead. I finally returned mostly to be around for my much younger siblings - as I felt they needed me as a balance to my insane parents.

 

By the time I returned I was a college graduate, and basically very independent - but their BS continued. My way of dealing with it continued to be avoidance for many years. I just wouldn't answer the phone - but it tore me up inside.

 

My therapist has helped me immensely in that now I am able to say to them "what you are doing is not acceptable to me, either it stops, or I leave." Sometimes they don't stop and I leave - every time that happens it teaches them that I mean what I say and there is a consequence to their bad behaviour.

 

In other words they have learned that they will NOT get what they want by trying to bully me and that my reaction to their abuse will be to walk out sometimes for only a day other times it can be for months. One of their friends even told me, that I scare the crap out of them, as they know if they push me too far they will lose me completely.

 

We still have lots of issues, and I don't fight every possible battle, I pick and choose based on level of importance to me. However I would not have been able to achieve this balance without my therapist.

 

Good luck to you!

[Kasan]

a question for you kasan, i too don't hold a grudge against my parents, but they do refuse to speak to me. i was very naughty last week and left a plastic bag lying

so the question is, or should i say, scenario, parents refusing to speak for something so trivial, how on earth could you get them to speak again? my father muttered hello to me the other day when i forced my face in front of his, before threatening to beat me with his walking stick!

 

Your parents are doing what works and gets results. By not speaking with you, they reel you right back in.

 

So what would happen if you didn't try to get them to speak to you? (boundaries) Would the world end? I don't think so.

 

So spend Christmas somewhere else....it worked for me.

 

The most important tape that I play in my head is this--I took what was thrown at me when I was a child...I didn't have the tools to cope and I still survived. Now I have the tools to cope and to deal with their crap because I am not that child anymore and I am still standing.

[dropdeadlegs]

Your situation is unfortunate and I genuinely feel for you. When dealing with family there can be so much guilt imparted on us.

 

My suggestion would be to treat them as you would any other person in your life. If a friend treated you this way I don't think you would continue the friendship. That won't be easy since by creating boundaries and enforcing them your parents will likely just reinforce their beliefs.

 

Therapy will be necessary to assuage the guilt they have created within you. Even if you were to put up with their actions until they pass away, I think you would have lingering pain to deal with.

 

My mothers parents were kind of like this. Nothing was good enough and I know my mom still struggles with some things her mother says to her today. Logically she knows it's just crap, but it still hurts her and I see that all too often. She did turn things around and not become the parent she was raised by.

 

Please don't feel guilty about posting here or opening up to a therapist. The last thing you need is more guilt or shame. Your self esteem has suffered enough. It took years of "beating down" and might take a long time to get back to where it needs to be.

[brooke 11]

thanks again for your responses.. guilt is rubbish and i just need to keep saying that as a mantra.. being greek doesn't help either as we are raised and indoctrinated into some family utopia which doesn't exist but we must feel guilty and responsible for.. that abuse isn't really abuse, it's just a beating that you deserved.. put downs aren't really putdowns, they are just the truth!

 

i really do believe that there is a link between the mediteranean and parental abuse and guilt. it must be the water

[Kasan]

thanks again for your responses.. guilt is rubbish and i just need to keep saying that as a mantra.. being greek doesn't help either as we are raised and indoctrinated into some family utopia which doesn't exist but we must feel guilty and responsible for.. that abuse isn't really abuse, it's just a beating that you deserved.. put downs aren't really putdowns, they are just the truth!

 

i really do believe that there is a link between the mediteranean and parental abuse and guilt. it must be the water

 

everywhere. Are you "ungrateful", do you have a "smart mouth"? Probably not. Your parents use these words as a form of control....and let's face it, people do what works.

 

I am also amazed at the transformation people make when they go back home. They can be the most confident, successful people in the business world, and they go home and turn into that 16 year old kid, rehashing and reliving old destructive history.

 

Patterns are extremely difficult to modify and break. But I do know that at 37 you are aware of the buttons they push in you. You will have to work extremely hard to overcome your self image that was given to you by your parents as a child.

 

You can choose to play the victim or you can choose to become the woman that you were always meant to be.

 

Another observation that I have made is the number of kids who had really tough childhoods are the first to respond to a parent's time of need. I guess we are still looking for that magic ring of approval and love.

 

Good luck!

[quankanne]

today my mother informed me that i was the devil's child and she would never speak to me again. that i will live a life of guilt and remember her words when she died. all this because my young child used their phone one day after school and made 4 mobile phone calls that totalled $2.79.

 

heh heh ... I’d have been irreverent: “So ma, was it you or daddy who screwed the devil and out popped me? If I’m responsible for your death, can I take you out now for talking to me like that? Because I’m supernatural, you know ... .” Because that was an incredibly stupid and hurtful thing for her to say, IMO

 

i know it's not my fault but how do i get over this? they will never change and either will i. how do i overcome the feelings of immense grief and guilt?

 

You do have the power to change, especially because something inside you is telling you that what they’ve done to you is not right. The thing is, you’ve got to want to make that change. I’ll be honest, it won’t be easy, and it’s going to rip you up inside, but at this point – especially since you’ve got kids of your own – you need to provide yourself a positive life. You don’t have to put up with the drama if you really don’t want to, though you’re going to have to put your foot down firmly and repeatedly. And it won’t make you a bad daughter (hell, they already think you’re bad ... no offense meant ... so why should you become any worse by telling them you’re not going to put up with that kind of treatment?)

 

commanding respect doesn’t mean you’re being disrespectful of them ... just cutting out any unnecessary bullshxt. I think to some degree, every family experiences this, and it’s about how you respond to it as you mature, not the fact that it exists.

 

for the time being, maybe you should arrange for someone else to take them on their errands, at least until you can get a grip on your new stance, and aren’t afraid to tell them, ‘No more.’

 

remember, no one can repeatedly treat you bad without your permission. And what you’re trying to do here is stop giving them permission to act like this with you.

 

i'm constantly reminded of their physical frailty, their reduced capacity to freely move and the 'sacrifices' they made for me.

 

that’s because you’re a caring and loving person – and you don’t have to change that part of yourself. Just the BS portion that deals with how others treat you.

 

I will certainly look at counselling - i have never really opened up during a counselling session mainly due to fear of judgement.

 

this is VERY encouraging – and think of it this way, when you allow yourself to open up and get this poison out of your system, the counsellor will have a better idea of what tools to give you to help you make the changes needed. Kinda like when you go to the doctor’s office and let them know every symptom for an ailment that you’re experiencing so they can give you the right medicine. Knowledge is empowerment ...

 

it's reassuring to know that i really am not satan's child!

nah, you sound like you’ve got a lot of love in your heart despite all the crap that’s being flicked at you. Though, wouldn’t it be something to be able to cause a little hellfire when needed?

 

how on earth could you get them to speak again? my father muttered hello to me the other day when i forced my face in front of his, before threatening to beat me with his walking stick!

 

be relentless about keeping in contact with them if that’s what you truly want – call and say, “Hi daddy, saw that they were having a sale on the stuff you like at X store, and was wondering if you knew about it. Okay, love you, bye!”

 

because I’m really not sure if people honestly are immune to the phrase “I love you” as much as they say ... it’s a great tool to wield, because it can humble the crankiest, rudest person when they realize that you mean it ...

 

they have learned that they will NOT get what they want by trying to bully me and that my reaction to their abuse will be to walk out sometimes for only a day other times it can be for months.

 

much like working with small children who throw tantrums, eh?

 

but it works when you’re consistent and they clearly understand the alternatives … what you said about not being available when they “change” their minds also is a good way to establish that you’re going to put up with BS. I still think letting them know you love them will sink in that you’re not the awful evil person they make you out to be, because you’re willing to give them that despite the abuse they put you through.

[suzy61]

Wow.I thought I had problems with my family.

I'm Irish and my family are very close. I do have a very over-bearing sister, but I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.We are a family where the adults laugh and joke with the grown up children and both my parent's families are the same.Some of my best times have been spent with my immediate and extended family as I grew up and still are today.

i can't believe parents would actually treat their children like that.I presume it has to do with how they were treated as children themselves and the example they received from their own parents.Congratulate yourself on the fact that you are enlightened enough to see that this is not right. You're not becoming like them, and that's the most important thing.I find it incredible that real, live adults would behave like that!A counsellor is certainly not going to judge you. If anything, they'll be incredibly sympathetic.What's to judge?You're an individual, a human being.You're also a thinking adult, capable of seeing that the behaviour of your parents isn't right.You don't owe them anything anymore.You didn't owe them anything in the first place, but it sounds as though you've certainly given back more than you were ever given.

You're not wrong and you've no reason to feel bad about anything.Don't forget that.

[WaterTiger]

They won't speak to you? GOOD!

Don't want you over for Christmas? Even Better!

 

Let go of them, their hate and their craziness! Refuse to be drawn into their wacky little world. They think you're the devil's child? SO WHAT! Let your brothers/sisters deal with Mommy and Daddy dearest. Avoid the whole lot of them. You'll feel better physically and mentally after you do this.

 

I agree a good therapyst can make you feel better emotionally as well.

[rajeev.nair]

I can certainly relate to you. My parents are not much different from you.

 

There is no point in trying to pursue relationship with people like them. They induce guilt in you but insult you at the same time. Probably, one has to wonder what are they expecting?

 

I am not Gandhi; for me tolerance has limits and parents cannot wield my way or the highway philosophy.

[Bobby NoBrains]

I'm so sorry to hear your sad and painful story. Let me repeat a saying that "You can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family". Sometimes you make the best of what you get, and if it still isn't enough for them then you just walk away. Ideally no one wants to forget or leave their families but sometimes the way people choose to behave leaves us with no option but to do just that. It is only after you have broken away from their hold that they will come to realize the strength that is inside you and to appreciate you for who you really are. Sometimes the little baby bird just has to fly far away before the parent birds realize the importance of their baby in their lives. Some lessons need to be learned the hard way. Teach them those lessons the hard way.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Lunar Sonata]

This is gonna sound really bad but I think your healing is gonna be most effective when they finally die. Tabula rasa and all that jazz. I feel really sorry for you.

[Fancee]

If u can't afford a therapist, just stay away from your family. They are your stressors and they keep you stressed. Just avoid them. Stay away from this. You wil be alright after awhile anyway.

[superfriend]

My best advice is that you should distance yourself from your mom. If you continue to take her abuse she is going to continue to break you down. For her it is a power and control issue. Even though your 37 your mother still wants to control you. You need to understand that no person should be subjected to ANY kind of abuse. You should not let your child see the way your mother treats you either. Believe it or not they will pick up on it- its not right. My best advice is stop feeling guilty and start living your life. Surround yourself with positive people. YOu don't need people to bring you down. Value yourself and know that your not being a bad child for not speaking to your parent. Understand that it is their loss.