Deja vu - husband and his porn

[New_Wife]

Here we go again. I just don't get it.

 

I gave him back his engagement ring over this, before we even got married. It is not something that is acceptable to me. He swore it was nothing important to him, and that he'd rather have me. We went to premarital counseling & he swore to me, in front of counselor, that he would never look at it again if it hurt me.

 

Guess what?

 

He still uses it. He pleasures himself to it. He still claims it's not that important to him - but knows how much it hurts my trust - and does it anyway.

 

Our sex life is nearly non-existent. When I do have desires for new or different things, he shuts me down pretty quick. Missionary, occasional Or.Sx 2-3 minutes of thrusting, and we're done. max of 4 kisses prior too, a little cuddle afterwards, and that's it.

 

I am so angry right now. I thought it was mostly hurt, but the more I think on it, I'm angry. He is wasting all of his sexual energy, his creative sexual fantasies and desires on the computer, and leaving me shortchanged and unsatisfied in so many ways. I am boxed into his little image of what a wife's sexuality should be, and he's really resistant to anything I might want or need sexually - including honesty and or security with him.

 

I told him that I've half a mind to take pictures of myself in some of MY fantasies and sharing them online - so that I can unleash some of what I need and enjoy it with another human - arguing that I have the same "right" to share my sexuality with anonymous internet strangers that he does. At first I threw it out there as an arguing point, but then I started to think about how nice it would feel to be desired again, and the idea started to grow. (No, I haven't done anything with it - and I probably never will just due to the fact that I don't want to be recognized by John Q. Pervert in the grocery store).

 

What the heck is the motivation for this? And please don't tell me that porn is just "a guy thing" or to "get over it." That's fine if it works for you, but it doesn't for me, and that was one of the agreements we had going into this marriage.

[whichwayisup]

Not only has he closed himself off to you sexually, he's emotionally and intimately closed himself, THAT is not good or healthy for you or for him. That connection and intimacy isn't being felt or shared.

 

He has issues inside himself, or he's just purely addicted to porn, the fantasy of it and used to his own hand to pleasure himself. I can understand that you feel hurt by it and feel that he doesn't need or desire you. Just don't go looking for it online or offline with someone else. It won't help in the long run, it will only fill a certain need that isn't being met by him.

 

Is he willing to go to counselling with you?

 

How is the rest of your relationship outside of the bedroom?

[New_Wife]

We are already in counseling. I imagine that answers the second question in it's own way. We don't actually see each other much during the week, he works nights, I work days. This weekend he is visiting his brother out-of-state, so we'll see each other again next weekend.

 

He is the best father my kids have had, however, and he's not their biological dad. I don't say that lightly either. There have been times when that fact is the only thing keeping me with him.

[Mr. Lucky]

And please don't tell me that porn is just "a guy thing" or to "get over it."

To occasionally look at or use porn may be a guy thing, but to have it replace the intimacy in one's marriage isn't (at least not this guy!). He's obviously avoiding a real connection with you (porn might just be the way he's doing it - absent porn, it might be something else). You have the "how", hopefully counseling will help you understand the "why". There could be some pretty profound and deep-seated issues involved here. Hope it works out...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Cobra_X30]

We are already in counseling. I imagine that answers the second question in it's own way. We don't actually see each other much during the week, he works nights, I work days. This weekend he is visiting his brother out-of-state, so we'll see each other again next weekend.

 

He is the best father my kids have had, however, and he's not their biological dad. I don't say that lightly either. There have been times when that fact is the only thing keeping me with him.

 

This moves from coping mechanism to addiction.

 

Has he dealt with alot of rejection in the past? What steps have you tried to enable him?

 

Realize that when you push it probably makes him feel emasculated... and pressured.

[New_Wife]

No to rejection, he's not had a lot of romantic relationships, but as I understand them, they've gone and ended well enough.

 

I don't push him on it, in fact it just came out again recently, but I have to be straight here that comment irritated me. He's been lying to me for years, avoiding my needs, belittling me for having them, and satisfying his elsewhere - I'm entitled to be angry and worry about my feelings at this point too. One of us ought to. He's taken away my choices in this whole thing. I could've chosen to accept this as a part of the deal, or not & move on - but I wasn't given that option. I was lied to and am now stuck in a marriage with no sexual satisfaction for myself and now a lot of anger and mistrust.

[Cad Rake]

that was one of the agreements we had going into this marriage.

 

Lesson That Women Never Seem to Learn #1: You can never change a man. Nagging and ultimatums will merely drive the behavior underground.

[Bobby NoBrains]

You need to sit back and understand something here.

 

1. Your husband is addicted to porn. Talking will not get him out of it. He needs professional help unless he is strong enough to break out of it himself, which he doesn't seem to be.

 

2. It's not your fault. It is a clinical problem. Deal with it accordingly instead of trying to find the solution inside yourself.

 

 

3. He needs treatment, including counselling. People have been known to become depressive because of their addictions to porn and the fallout of the social problems associated with being caught / ostracised / rejected, etc.

 

4. Addiction & Obsession with Pornography & internet chatting etc. is a recognized illness which is known to require treatment if it gets severe enough to affect the daily life and well-being of the individual. It is similar to drug addiction or alcohol addiction, except it is a mental & emotional addiction and not a physical addiction, so it is not perceived as serious enough, but it is / can be.

 

In light of the above deal with the problem accordingly. There is every chance of getting your "good" husband back. Just deal with it correctly.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[on_my_way_out]

I would agree that he is addicted to it. The use of it should not take the place of the intimacy needs in a relationship. You are spot on with the feelings you are having and have a right to those feelings.

It is something that has come between you and needs to be fixed in order to continue. You also now have to deal with a trust issue that I know is incredibly difficult.

Simply tell him what your reasonable needs are in order to start to move through this.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm in agreement with Bobby. Particularly here...

It is a clinical problem. Deal with it accordingly instead of trying to find the solution inside yourself.

And here...

People have been known to become depressive because of their addictions to porn and the fallout of the social problems associated with being caught / ostracised / rejected, etc.

 

But I can see the potential for a little 'chicken or the egg' in this last point. Sometimes porn can lead to depression. Sometimes depression can lead to porn.

 

Porn use has been a deal-breaker for you. It has since the beginning and he knows it. So, I do believe that you're dealing with an addictive or obsessive behavior, and I'm in agreement that it's a clinical problem at this point. It's a huge risk to the marriage he's been taking in order to engage in the behavior. His urge must've been strong.

 

Because the marriage is currently unsustainable with the porn dynamic in place, you're backed into a corner here. All you can do at this point is work with him for as long as he's willing to get help, or put him out if he's not.

 

Now, you've said some things which lead me to believe he might be a guy who's having a problem with premature ejaculation. He seems to want to keep your sexual encounters fairly unexciting. He's not lasting too long. And he's not interested in more that "a little cuddle" afterwards.

 

Guys can get REALLY embarrassed over anything that leaves them feeling less than 'studly'. So much of their self-esteem is defined by their sexuality. This is most often paramount to their internal view in terms of being a MAN.

 

Some guys will talk about it when they're having problems, but a good many won't.

And it's just my opinion, but I think regardless of whether they're talking or not... they're unlikely to tell us just HOW devastated they feel emotionally when their weenie ain't workin' just right.

 

You know, there's no performance anxiety for a guy who's masturbating, no one to please but himself. The lure of online porn would be powerful, not just in relieving anxiety and stress, but emotionally as well.

 

For a guy who might be suffering a low sexual self-esteem, interactive cyber-porn allows him the fantasy of being a sexual dynamo... cosmopolitan in his views and liberal in his sexuality. He can shuck off the failure he feels in his daily reality and step into a whole new, more exciting, character.

 

It's impossible for anyone to know exactly what's going on with this guy. I will tell you this though... it behooves him to be completely and utterly honest with his doctor and his therapist. If he's dealing with PE, there ARE options.

 

For example, a low dose of SSRI anti-depressant medication could not only help him put the fire out on his urge to act out sexually, but it could ALSO offer him more control when he's intimate with you. The sexual side-effects of SSRI's can work in his favor when he's working closely with his physician to monitor his dosage as well as his level of symptom relief.

 

As his confidence builds, with more successful sexual encounters within the marriage, it's likely that he'd be able to wean off the medication in short order. I'm not a doctor, but I think there's alot to be gained psychologically in breaking the cycle of perceived failure.

 

Like I said, there's no way to know exactly what's going on with this guy. It could be he's just a sneaky self-serving egghead. But it could be that there are some complex underlying issues which might be resolved with help.

[Bobby NoBrains]

Wow, Ladyjane14, you've put the thing in a whole new perspective .. I can definitely say I've learned something here ... Until you said otherwise, I really thought you are a professional with some experience of this subject cause you reasoned it out very well.

 

Is it possible that depression and/or performance anxiety are causing him to just let out his frustrations with porn ? So possibly he's not addicted ? But I have to say something here, that if the person knows he's been caught, that his behaviour is affecting his relationship and his marriage, but still continues to do it or is unable to stop it, it has to be an addiction. Unless he is continuing to do it out of choice, in which case it might be more of a refuge.

 

Damm, this is much to complicated for me. I'll just repeat to the OP that you should get him some qualified help, either from a sexologist, or a psychologist, or both.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Bobby NoBrains]

Btw, the OP has posted a few weeks ago about her H seeing someone else behind her back .. Is that still on ? Or is it only porn now ? Or what's actually going on with your H ?

 

Sorry to seem to be prying ... Just trying to make sense of the problems :/

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Cobra_X30]

No to rejection, he's not had a lot of romantic relationships, but as I understand them, they've gone and ended well enough.

 

I don't push him on it, in fact it just came out again recently, but I have to be straight here that comment irritated me. He's been lying to me for years, avoiding my needs, belittling me for having them, and satisfying his elsewhere - I'm entitled to be angry and worry about my feelings at this point too. One of us ought to. He's taken away my choices in this whole thing. I could've chosen to accept this as a part of the deal, or not & move on - but I wasn't given that option. I was lied to and am now stuck in a marriage with no sexual satisfaction for myself and now a lot of anger and mistrust.

 

 

No intention to say this is your fault! Just want you to think about why this is happening!

 

Perhaps this is a lingering issue from a past relationship... but I think he is in the addiction mode.

 

I've never met a guy that would actively choose his hand over a real woman, unless there is some underlying issues.

 

Maybe, talk to him and see if he is happy overall with the way you treat him?

[Ladyjane14]

Wow, Ladyjane14, you've put the thing in a whole new perspective .. I can definitely say I've learned something here ... Until you said otherwise, I really thought you are a professional with some experience of this subject cause you reasoned it out very well.

 

If I'm so smart, how come I managed to hose down my clothes while rinsing out the shower less than an hour after I made that post???

:lmao:

 

I actually wish I could claim some genius here... but no, I'm just in the BTDT club and had ALOT of time to develop some conclusions.

[New_Wife]

Bobby, you remember (mostly) correctly. The issue a few weeks ago was what brought this whole can of worms out again. He told me, prior to a scheduled family vacation, that "there's something I need to tell you before we go..." (never a good start)

 

The news he had for me was that the obsessive spree of porn he went on after proposing to me - the one that resulted in me calling the engagement off and giving him his ring back - was not just any old stranger on the internet, but his friend's wife. He told me about it because we might run into them while we were in town, and he was afraid I'd recognize her (not sure I'd notice her face - that wasn't the most glaringly obvious feature on the porn).

 

Anyway, promises were made and broken about that woman and that visit, and, in short, it was one big cluster fork. Somewhere in there it came out that he's never stopped looking at porn period - and basically that my feelings on the subject just don't matter because he doesn't agree with them - no matter what he previously said or promised.

 

We've been in, and continue to be in, MC - and we're each starting up with new ICs.

 

So there it is, and I appreciate all of the feedback thus far. To be frank though, I'm a little short on hope right now. The more I learn, the more I discover that I've just been invisible our whole relationship and didn't even know it. As to getting my "good" husband back - that's the kicker for me - I'm no longer sure I really had one. I don't know where the lies start and stop - if at all.

[whichwayisup]

He has to WANT to stop, and/or hit rockbottom before he really changes. I do hope that counselling helps and he deals with his porn addiction. If he doesn't, he may lose you and all that you two have together.

[Maags]

Here we go again. I just don't get it.

 

I gave him back his engagement ring over this, before we even got married. It is not something that is acceptable to me. He swore it was nothing important to him, and that he'd rather have me. We went to premarital counseling & he swore to me, in front of counselor, that he would never look at it again if it hurt me.

 

Guess what?

 

He still uses it. He pleasures himself to it. He still claims it's not that important to him - but knows how much it hurts my trust - and does it anyway.

 

Our sex life is nearly non-existent. When I do have desires for new or different things, he shuts me down pretty quick. Missionary, occasional Or.Sx 2-3 minutes of thrusting, and we're done. max of 4 kisses prior too, a little cuddle afterwards, and that's it.

 

I am so angry right now. I thought it was mostly hurt, but the more I think on it, I'm angry. He is wasting all of his sexual energy, his creative sexual fantasies and desires on the computer, and leaving me shortchanged and unsatisfied in so many ways. I am boxed into his little image of what a wife's sexuality should be, and he's really resistant to anything I might want or need sexually - including honesty and or security with him.

 

I told him that I've half a mind to take pictures of myself in some of MY fantasies and sharing them online - so that I can unleash some of what I need and enjoy it with another human - arguing that I have the same "right" to share my sexuality with anonymous internet strangers that he does. At first I threw it out there as an arguing point, but then I started to think about how nice it would feel to be desired again, and the idea started to grow. (No, I haven't done anything with it - and I probably never will just due to the fact that I don't want to be recognized by John Q. Pervert in the grocery store).

 

What the heck is the motivation for this? And please don't tell me that porn is just "a guy thing" or to "get over it." That's fine if it works for you, but it doesn't for me, and that was one of the agreements we had going into this marriage.

 

 

How how about we get together, (not a lesbian mind you) and spread 'em for the Internet population ! I never thought of it that way but hell, our husbands are cheating on us with their hand and a book (or DVD).

 

I'm looking for a way out of my marriage.....I think. I have 4 kids though so I have to consider what I'm going to do to support them if we split.

 

You are right, it's really like they are cheating on us.

[Cad Rake]

Interesting concept. I guess a guy would have a hard time arguing with that.. though voyeurism and exhibitionism are slightly different kink.

[OpenBook]

Lesson That Women Never Seem to Learn #1: You can never change a man. Nagging and ultimatums will merely drive the behavior underground.

 

Amen to that!

[OpenBook]

And just in case you're wondering, New Wife... I don't think YOU did anything wrong -- other than ignoring your instincts when you married this guy.

 

He lied to you. Men lie. All the time. It's their ACTIONS, not their WORDS, that we have to gauge in order to size them up.

 

He convinced you to marry him with his words (lies), not his actions. Now he doesn't feel like he has to do anything else. He's got you -- Mission Accomplished. Now he can do what he wants.

[Woggle]

And just in case you're wondering, New Wife... I don't think YOU did anything wrong -- other than ignoring your instincts when you married this guy.

 

He lied to you. Men lie. All the time. It's their ACTIONS, not their WORDS, that we have to gauge in order to size them up.

 

He convinced you to marry him with his words (lies), not his actions. Now he doesn't feel like he has to do anything else. He's got you -- Mission Accomplished. Now he can do what he wants.

 

This is why I rell no lies to my wife. I do stuff that some women might have a problem with but my wife knew the deal before we were married and she chose to marry me anyway. So far I hear no complaining from her because I was honest right from the start.

[Bobby NoBrains]

If I'm so smart, how come I managed to hose down my clothes while rinsing out the shower less than an hour after I made that post???

:lmao:

 

I actually wish I could claim some genius here... but no, I'm just in the BTDT club and had ALOT of time to develop some conclusions.

 

:lmao: hope you dint catch a chill

 

To New_Wife

Anyway, promises were made and broken about that woman and that visit, and, in short, it was one big cluster fork. Somewhere in there it came out that he's never stopped looking at porn period - and basically that my feelings on the subject just don't matter because he doesn't agree with them - no matter what he previously said or promised.

 

We've been in, and continue to be in, MC - and we're each starting up with new ICs.

 

So there it is, and I appreciate all of the feedback thus far. To be frank though, I'm a little short on hope right now. The more I learn, the more I discover that I've just been invisible our whole relationship and didn't even know it. As to getting my "good" husband back - that's the kicker for me - I'm no longer sure I really had one. I don't know where the lies start and stop - if at all.

 

This doesn't bode well ... If there's been such a long history, I don't think there's anything that he *wants* to do about his problem. You're in with a person who doesn't care about how his behaviour might affect you. Too serious to ignore because usually it only gets worse with time. I think you need to do some re-thinking about your future in this marriage, sorry. And maybe an ultimatum is due. Either he is willing to change or he isn't, but it's only fair you should know whether he wants to put you first in his life, otherwise you're hanging out with the wrong man.

 

Take some steps on this. Don't take it lying down or it *will* get worse.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby