Would you destroy another person's life?

[crazy_grl]

It's not a discussion if both sides only make statements, it cannot go anywhere. Person A: "I like salad"... Person B: "I don't like salad". What did that conversation accomplish? Neither of those people have any greater understanding into one another.

 

Yes they do. Now they know one thing that the other person likes or dislikes. Also, what if person A loves salad so much that he never imagined anyone else could NOT love salad? Not likely in this specific scenario, I know, but I'm illustrating that sometimes people think one way and never imagine that anyone else thinks another way. A person's horizons are broadened just knowing that another type of opinion exists. Most of the time, people's opinions are based on emotions and can't be rationally explained (believe it or not, but many of yours are too, Darkzen). This is usually the case when issues of morality come into play. A conversation about these things can be enlightening, a debate is often pointless.

 

Person A doesn't need to demand that person B tell him all the logical reasons why he doesn't like salad. Even if person B tried to explain, his reason "It tastes bad" might not make logical sense to person A, because to person A, it's a known fact that salad tastes good. Person A can either accept that person B doesn't like salad because it's his opinion that it tastes bad or he can belittle him and demand better, more logical reasons.

 

If person B thinks it's silly to get into a debate about salad, it doesn't make him weak, and it doesn't mean that person A is right.

[Darkzen]

So it appears that maybe there was something more to my perceived insanity than some claimed.

 

marlena: Pot meet kettle. You claim I have a feeling of superiority, yet in a backhanded comment you show that you're the one who in-fact has that outlook. You proved my point exactly, to those that are willing to see it.

 

sb129: I'll be sure to keep you informed.

 

JamesM: I agree with most of what you said, but the thing that we're not seeing eye to eye on, is that this isn't a "debate team". Debates aren't always about being right and wrong. It's about persuading people to see your reasoning. This is a discussion with some debate. The goal is to explore our thoughts and the thoughts of others. When someone attacks me and doesn't back-up their reasoning, I find that ignorant and/or cowardly. Some people here are guilty of that. Some are even hypocrites and have incriminated themselves, I'm not the only one pointing it out either.

 

Overall, it's refreshing to see that you're willing to discuss things. We can still not see eye to eye and there's nothing wrong with that. I treated everyone with respect until they showed me that they didn't deserve it. I merely wanted the same in return. Like I've said "ad nauseum", I posted originally to try and figure out my own thoughts. I do this by hearing other people's perspectives and contemplating them. Not to say that it'll change my views, but I feel we can't grow as people unless we're objective, as well as looking at the world from other perspectives.

 

Maybe the fact that I'm a logical person, is what makes me need to hear reasoning to understand why people feel what they do. On the other side of the equation, my logical is also what makes me question things when it doesn't make sense. I'm not doing it to be mean or rude, I'm seeking understanding. I ask hypothetical questions so that people have to explore the answer themselves before giving a response. People that refuse to answer these questions are afraid of what they'll see IMHO. It's also usually the time they make an excuse and leave the conversation. Obviously, I'm applying my own perspective to these opinions and it may jade my view... but so far from my experiences, people aren't really that different from one another. We all just have varying levels of enlightenment.

 

I could have taken the approach of just walking away. I know myself pretty well though, it would have lingered forever without me fighting back. Intelligence is a gift and a curse. You can't really delude yourself and take the "ignorance is bliss" approach. I see things that I don't want to see, it's extremely hard on me at times. We can twist our logic to suit our desires (like I did for nine years), but at the end of the day, it didn't make the problem go away. Just as my decision to walk away wouldn't fix the problem, it would merely hide it.

 

Kasan: I can see your point. I'm not here to talk about the situation as much as explore my own thoughts. I appreciate all the views presented in this thread, there's been many things brought up that I've thought over. My points and counter-points aren't meant justify my actions though. I'm trying to question other people's views, in an attempt to see if it's merely a snap opinions or if they've actually contemplated their stance.

 

underpants: She wasn't submissive or passive when she was emotional. She's very impressionable though. Her mom planted seeds of doubt in her head a week before we broke up (due to her own failing marriage). I'm sure those seeds blossomed in her head.

 

We'd rarely argue, but yes when we did, she would back down usually. Most of our arguments stemmed from her actions. In-fact, we had a break through in communication immediately after the break-up. She actually started to understand my perspective on things. She cried and said she was a "horrible person" and that she shouldn't have treated me the way she did. I didn't goad her into that confession either. She broke it all down, without me saying a thing. Than I asked about making amends to help me move on and she basically spit in my face. She created this image of me based on fallacy. I told her that I can't move on feeling like I'm responsible.

 

She put the responsibility onto my shoulders unfairly, I did what I had to do to remove the unfairness. Now I still have to shoulder the responsibility, but at least it's justified.

 

lindya: You're entitled to your opinion, but TBPH, your assumption of my outlook is incorrect. You act like I'm worse for being honest. The conversation you described is what we all do. What makes how I perceive evil, any different than how other's come to their perceptions of evil? Why was Hitler evil? I can show you people that feel he wasn't, what makes you right and them wrong? Maybe it's my honesty that you fear.

 

luvmy2ns: Pretty much the main point I've been getting at. They chose to ignore what I say for a reason. They don't want to look at themselves in a mirror for fear of what they'll see. By bashing me, it maintains the self-created illusion that they hide themselves behind. When my logic gets irrefutable, they run and hide. If my logic had holes they could find, they'd surely take it apart. Like I've said before, they're probably living a lie if they can't be objective enough to turn the microscope onto themselves.

 

Trimmer: I'm not surprised by anything TBH. I don't have any expectations for this thread. It merely is, what it is. As things progress, more and more things will come to the surface.

 

She'll get fired for almost certain. I told the investigator my reasons up front. I haven't lied to him once, if she lies to cover up, I gave him enough hard evidence to see that she's lying... at least on a couple things. There's physical evidence that she cannot hide... such as her work laptop and the transfer form she filled out (putting in a higher salary than she was authorized) that no one picked up on.

 

I'm glad that you can deal with your situation in a different way. I wouldn't be honest if I said I could, it's not the person I am. I know and understand this. I'm not trying to justify it, I did what I felt was necessary to move on. That's the bare reason behind it. Sure I have reasons on why I feel this way, but I've already explained them.

[sb129]

I am curious as to why you insist we "turn the microscope onto ourselves" so much?

 

That was never the reason behind this thread- the thread is discussing YOUR behaviour, and others opinions on that. Why the need to dissect everybody who posts on this threads character? We didn't start the thread asking for opinions.

 

None of us are perfect, and I am more than happy to admit that, and also to moral mistakes i have made in the past. Isn't that enough?

 

I don't feel the need to look any deeper inside- not because I am afraid of what I will find, but for several reasons

 

a) I am not confronted with a moral dilemma at present

b) I have no issues within my R that need resolving

c) for the first time in a long time I am content and happy with myself and my life, flaws and all.

 

And I still object to being told that I can't have an opinion on morals simply because my attitude towards certain morals was "relaxed" in the past. That is ridiculous.

I still had certain morals then about other things, we all do.

 

Back to the original point- you asked if people who were in your situation would do what you did.

 

I have never been in your situation, and hope I never will be. I can't know 100% WHAT I would do for that simple reason.

 

However, knowing myself as I do (turning on that microscope for a second) I think I would feel too much guilt to do what you have done, and I would beat myself up about it if I actually went through with it.

 

Thats not to say I wouldn't entertain FANTASIES about doing something like that, especially when the hurt was raw and new. I think we all agree that when a R ends badly, we hope that the other person hurts as much as we do.

 

Turning that into a reality however isn't something that I personally would do, due to guilt and worry that it might backfire/ retaliate into something much bigger that I couldn't handle.

 

I hope this answers the question (again) and that one day you find inner peace. Its quite a nice place to be at.

[Aintayankee]

Don't do it. She will only hate you. If you loved her, then you should want her to be happy, no matter what the atrocities, her karma will catch up with her. Don't ruin her life. You know how good life can be around her, so let her enlighten the world.

[lindya]

Don't do it.

 

He's already done it. Just wanted to clarify that for everyone who's under the impression that he's considering taking an action rather than conducting a post mortem of action already taken.

[VIP]

Why was Hitler evil? I can show you people that feel he wasn't, what makes you right and them wrong? Maybe it's my honesty that you fear.

 

If you were burnt alive in a concentration camp, you would consider Hitler evil. However if this happens to somebody else, you suddenly don't know what is right and what is wrong.

So what makes you right and your girlfriend wrong? I think she is right, many posters here said they wouldn't want to be involved with a person like you. Why didn't she feel remorse? Because she felt that she was right. So it's all subjective in this situation. She thinks she is right, you think you are right. So who is to say which one of you is right?

 

If you could see things from her point of view, see things about yourself honestly, you would understand why she left you. But you are feeling self righteous, and you don't listen to any other reasonings than your own. So in your mind you are always right, and those who don't agree with you are wrong. This is a very one sided view of reality. You are not the center of the Universe, there are other people, who might see things differently. And they are right in their own way. So it's your inability to see other people's perspectives, that make you so sure that you are the only one who is right.

[Trialbyfire]

Darkzen, since you've already done it, move on. It's obviously something that's bothered you for awhile, hence the need for the debate/discussion.

 

Most people have enacted revenge on others in some manner or another, whether it's through passive-aggressive means like snubbing someone or a more proactive approach of aggressively attacking someone verbally or textually.

 

Overall, a waste of energy but sometimes, you need to take that power and control back if you feel you've been victimized in some fashion.

 

If you do it, do it with no remorse and move on.

[burning 4 revenge]

He's already done it. Just wanted to clarify that for everyone who's under the impression that he's considering taking an action rather than conducting a post mortem of action already taken.

I think this has something to do with guilt. He's obsessed with it.

 

Look Darkzen, you can't take back what you've done, but maybe you can do something in the way of restitution. This has more to do with guilt than anger in my opinion

[Trialbyfire]

I agree with that. If you have guilt, provide restitution. If you're savoring the revenge, best to look inside yourself and shut it down. While there maybe some good come from the act of revenge, be honest with yourself that any altruism was the last thing on your mind.

 

As I mentioned previously. Been there, done it, have no remorse/guilt and have moved on. There's nothing to savour.

[JamesM]

Since we are all interpreting Darkzen's actions, my interpretation is that he did this thread for an "intellectual" exercise. He may have wanted to feel some justification, or he may have wanted to "brag" of his "achievement. Either way, I am inclined to believe that he was not looking for advice.

[reboot]

It's pretty obvious he was never looking for advice. More like "look how badass I am". *shrug*

Given the opportunity he'd probably slap her around a little too.

[bones]

The opposite of love isn't hate-- it is indifference. Show her you are indifferent by doing nothing but being happy and glad she is out of your life. Live your life in a way that will leave you with no regrets. Actions like that may feel good at first, but they usually haunt you in the end. Remain the good person you are. She'll get hers in the long run-- don't you worry about that.

[sb129]

Luvmy2ns' post wasn't directed at me, so I would like to humbly apologise publicly on this thread. (and privately).

[luvmy2ns]

I will take it that post was directed squarely at me, couldn't resist, could you Luvmy2ns, from high on that morality horse of yours?

 

I still have a right to say what I consider to be moral or not. Opinions on morals differ from person to person, as this thread as demonstrated.

 

You seem to have missed the point that I WAS an OW. Ie: am not one any more. Nor do I plan to ever be in that situation ever again, as I learned that lesson the hard way. I made some mistakes for which I am sorry.

I can't change them. i am not perfect.

Learning from your previous mistakes (and admitting to them) shouldn't be condemned, especially by someone who is holier than thou and oh so perfect. I am surprised that you seem to actually be supporting the OP- wouldn't have put you in that camp at all.

 

Do you actually have an opinion on the matter, or did you come here solely to stir things up?

 

Wasn't gunning for you, SB.

 

My opinion is that if he feels that strongly about whatever this gal did to him and he can help karma along a bit without too much time and effort, so what? Everyone was just beating him up for what I feel many people would jump at the chance to do if someone wronged them terribly.

 

I had a situation a few months back where this gal who had been spreading lies about me and making my friends miserable pushed it too far one night. That very night, she got a DUI. I have to say I was quite OVERJOYED!

 

Yeah, vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord and all that, but c'mon. Hasn't there ever been a situation where someone who is basically an a-hole anyway does something awful to you or yours and you would LOVE to see them get what they had coming? It doesn't sound like he had to put in much effort for it to happen, so he just gave karma a little push in her direction. Leave him alone.

[luvmy2ns]

Luvmy2ns' post wasn't directed at me, so I would like to humbly apologise publicly on this thread. (and privately).

 

Awww, how sweet!

[Darkzen]

sb129: You finally got it. Now that you've explained the reasons you feel this way, I can identify with your opinions somewhat. It hasn't changed my views on the subject, but at least now I understand where you're coming from. It's not just an opinion anymore, it's now the logical process of how you came to those conclusions. Thanks.

 

VIP: Yes, it is all about people's perspectives. That's the point I'm making. She didn't want to fill me in on her side of things. So I could at least try and understand the way she felt. She gave reasoning based on false accounts when I asked. Right and wrong is subjective to each person's perspective, what makes one person right and another wrong is who has more power. History is written by the victors. Walking away would have turned her into the victor and made her actions right. I'm sorry but that is unacceptable to me.

 

As for Hitler and the 6 millions Jews that were killed... what about the 20 million Russians that died? Why do the Jews get more sympathy than the Russians? Is it because the Russians fought back, rather than be herded up and slaughtered like cattle? Do you see the point I'm getting at with these questions? I'm trying to get people to think about other perspectives. In an attempt to let people see past their own conceptions. Plenty of things have happened in this world that are horrendous. Is seeing the world from just one perspective, ignorant or enlightened?

 

Trialbyfire: I'm past it already, I just love discussion/debate.

 

burning 4 revenge: I don't feel guilt at all TBPH. Nor am I obsessed over her. I just thoroughly enjoy discussion/debate. It's my personality and it's how I like spending my time... regardless of the topic.

 

JamesM: Correct.

 

reboot: Incorrect. I had numerous occasions to "slap her around", never have and never will. I don't think physically imposing your will on another is right... there's always someone bigger and badder than you out there. Besides, I know what I'm capable of in a fight, no need to brag about it.

 

BTW, did you figure out that I'm not here for advice all by yourself or did the numerous times, I stated that fact give you a clue?

 

bones: I disagree with this "the opposite of love is indifference" concept. Love makes you want to do good things for a person. Indifference merely makes you not care about the person. Hate makes you want to do bad things to a person. Maybe in the context of caring about someone it works, but not so much in your actions towards said person. Either way, I don't hate my ex anymore... it's now indifference because things are even in my eyes.

[sb129]

sb129: You finally got it. Now that you've explained the reasons you feel this way, I can identify with your opinions somewhat. It hasn't changed my views on the subject, but at least now I understand where you're coming from. It's not just an opinion anymore, it's now the logical process of how you came to those conclusions. Thanks

 

Dude, there is no finally about it.

 

I said the same thing waaaaaaayyyyy back on page 7 of the thread.

 

 

 

I still think that this may have a detrimental effect on any future relationships you may have. No matter how badly someone had been treated, I would find it hard to form a relationship and trust someone who was capable of doing this to someone else without remorse.

You say that you wouldn't do it to another person unless they treated you badly? I don't think I would be prepared to take that risk. I am sure there are women out there who won't have a problem with it- speaking of which, where is Cutegirl these days? She is a ballbreaker and a half!

 

Whats to say your ex GF doesn't decide to take matters into her own hands to avenge what you have now done to her? Where does it stop?

 

At least you have agreed that keeping the money is immoral, although I think (as I said before) that getting her fired may have been worse. If she is truly that crappy at her job, she would have dug her own grave for thta one eventually.

 

If you are happy with yourself, then at the end of the day that is all that matters I guess. Nobody on here is going to change your opinion, and you aren't going to convince some people on here that you have done the right thing.

 

I couldn't do what you have done, I know the guilt would mentally destroy me more than the anguish of NOT doing it. I can't say the temptation wouldn't cross my mind though, I just know that I couldn't go thru with it in the end.

 

I do hope for your sake that you don't have a moment of remorse in the future, because that could be very challenging for you.

[marlena]

sb129: You finally got it. Now that you've explained the reasons you feel this way, I can identify with your opinions somewhat. It hasn't changed my views on the subject, but at least now I understand where you're coming from. It's not just an opinion anymore, it's now the logical process of how you came to those conclusions. Thanks.

 

VIP: Yes, it is all about people's perspectives. That's the point I'm making. She didn't want to fill me in on her side of things. So I could at least try and understand the way she felt. She gave reasoning based on false accounts when I asked. Right and wrong is subjective to each person's perspective, what makes one person right and another wrong is who has more power. History is written by the victors. Walking away would have turned her into the victor and made her actions right. I'm sorry but that is unacceptable to me.

 

As for Hitler and the 6 millions Jews that were killed... what about the 20 million Russians that died? Why do the Jews get more sympathy than the Russians? Is it because the Russians fought back, rather than be herded up and slaughtered like cattle? Do you see the point I'm getting at with these questions? I'm trying to get people to think about other perspectives. In an attempt to let people see past their own conceptions. Plenty of things have happened in this world that are horrendous. Is seeing the world from just one perspective, ignorant or enlightened?

 

Trialbyfire: I'm past it already, I just love discussion/debate.

 

burning 4 revenge: I don't feel guilt at all TBPH. Nor am I obsessed over her. I just thoroughly enjoy discussion/debate. It's my personality and it's how I like spending my time... regardless of the topic.

 

JamesM: Correct.

 

reboot: Incorrect. I had numerous occasions to "slap her around", never have and never will. I don't think physically imposing your will on another is right... there's always someone bigger and badder than you out there. Besides, I know what I'm capable of in a fight, no need to brag about it.

 

BTW, did you figure out that I'm not here for advice all by yourself or did the numerous times, I stated that fact give you a clue?

 

bones: I disagree with this "the opposite of love is indifference" concept. Love makes you want to do good things for a person. Indifference merely makes you not care about the person. Hate makes you want to do bad things to a person. Maybe in the context of caring about someone it works, but not so much in your actions towards said person. Either way, I don't hate my ex anymore... it's now indifference because things are even in my eyes.

As for Hitler and the 6 millions Jews that were killed... what about the 20 million Russians that died? Why do the Jews get more sympathy than the Russians? Is it because the Russians fought back, rather than be herded up and slaughtered like cattle?

 

 

Because the Jews were targeted ...well,for simply beings Jews. You make it sound as if the Jews willingly enabled Hitler to herd them up and lock them up in gas chambers ergo they got what they deserved for not fighting back.

 

The fact is they did fight back the only way they knew how under the dire circumstances they were in. There was a Jewish resistance movement. They did not have the mass weapons of destruction that the Russians had...

 

This is not to say that we shouldn't have any sympathy for the Russians or any of the Allied Forces simply because they were in a position of power...we should (if of course we are capable of feeling any empathy at all) and do for all the people, Jews, Russians, English, French, Americans and yes, even, Greeks alike that suffered losses during the holocaust.... Think about THIS perscepctive for a while ( if you can consider other persceptives that is without a priori rejecting them).

 

And, yes, people do tend to sympathize more with the Davids than the Goliaths in this world!!!

[VIP]

As for Hitler and the 6 millions Jews that were killed... what about the 20 million Russians that died? Why do the Jews get more sympathy than the Russians? Is it because the Russians fought back, rather than be herded up and slaughtered like cattle? Do you see the point I'm getting at with these questions? I'm trying to get people to think about other perspectives. In an attempt to let people see past their own conceptions. Plenty of things have happened in this world that are horrendous. Is seeing the world from just one perspective, ignorant or enlightened?

 

There were people of different nationalities in concentration camps, many Russian prisoners of war.

[Trialbyfire]

Oh man, how to use a bad comparison and make it worse.

 

The Russians had thousands of miles of land mass they called THEIRS, whereby they knew their way through it and were supplied with food on the trek by the locals.

 

The Jews were citizens of the same friggen' country. Exactly where do you suppose they're going to get support. Half of them didn't even know what was going to happen to them.

[sb129]

I would nip the Holocaust comparisons in the bud now if I were you Darkzen.

 

You could offend alot of people with words like that. Did you know that denying the holocaust is an offense in some countries?

[underpants]

And, yes, people do tend to sympathize more with the Davids than the Goliaths in this world!!!

 

This is generally true. However....Not many people expect a sideways attack.

 

That is why perhaps for me it is much easier to 'help karma along' when I am not emotionally invested in the outcome. As in with others'.

 

I do find it difficult to exact revenge on someone I once loved. I can plot it all day long, but usually I don't cross the line and do it.

 

I could be capable I guess...who knows when pushed enough what someone is capable of. The rage and hurt that motivates this for me is a cue to back way off.

 

Intelligence is a great asset to have. However, when it is mixed with arrogance this can be a very off putting mix.

[Darkzen]

sb129: You gave a reason, not the thought process behind the reason earlier. I "feel", is not an explanation. Why would you feel that way? I know what "feelings" are, why I feel them can be quite a different thing though.

 

As for the holocaust... I didn't say it never happened. I'm asking a question so people can tell me, why they feel the way they do in that situation? This leads to understanding their perspective. If people are offended by history, that's their problem. I didn't take a stand on the holocaust, merely asked a question to help myself understand why others take the stand they do.

 

marlena: Who said that I didn't feel for all those involved in WWII? Stop putting words in my mouth. Besides, the Russians weren't all as well equipped as you'd like to believe, some fought with only hand-to-hand weapons against tanks and machine guns. Targeted you say, Russia was targeted also. Maybe the reasons were different, but they died for being part of a group just as the Jews did. Do some research into military history, you might learn a few things.

 

VIP: Correct.

 

Trialbyfire: So, because they had support makes it less of loss? 20 million died, let that sink into your brain for a second. So 3 people dying in a war is better than 1 person being tortured to death, is this what you're trying to say? Please explain that to their families and friends. I could go further but I doubt you'd understand my point.

 

underpants: Total agreement.

[sb129]

I know you didn't say the holocaust never happened, it was just a fact I thought you might be interested to know if you didn't already.

 

 

I really don't see how this

 

 

POST A- PAGE 7

I couldn't do what you have done, I know the guilt would mentally destroy me more than the anguish of NOT doing it. I can't say the temptation wouldn't cross my mind though, I just know that I couldn't go thru with it in the end.

 

is any different from this:

 

 

POST 2 Page 19.

However, knowing myself as I do (turning on that microscope for a second) I think I would feel too much guilt to do what you have done, and I would beat myself up about it if I actually went through with it.

 

Thats not to say I wouldn't entertain FANTASIES about doing something like that, especially when the hurt was raw and new. I think we all agree that when a R ends badly, we hope that the other person hurts as much as we do.

 

Turning that into a reality however isn't something that I personally would do, due to guilt and worry that it might backfire/ retaliate into something much bigger that I couldn't handle.

 

But like, whatever.

[melodymatters]

Wow...all still here huh ?

 

Well, end of the day I STILL say getting somone fired, ruining their business reputation, and ....misappropraiting their investment is NOT equal punishment for being a ****ty girlfriend.

 

If that were the case, there are a couple of guys I should be gunning for now...but why bother, rather focus on my here and now....

 

AND, I TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR STAYING WITH THEM !!!!!!!!