Would you destroy another person's life?

[Darkzen]

I know you didn't say the holocaust never happened, it was just a fact I thought you might be interested to know if you didn't already.

 

 

I really don't see how this

 

 

 

 

is any different from this:

 

 

 

But like, whatever.

 

The first merely gave a reason. The second gave a reason and explained the reasoning behind it. "I would feel guilty and it would cause me problems", as opposed to "I would feel guilty and it would cause me problems because..."

 

That's the difference I see.

[marlena]

Wow...all still here huh ?

 

Well, end of the day I STILL say getting somone fired, ruining their business reputation, and ....misappropraiting their investment is NOT equal punishment for being a ****ty girlfriend.

 

If that were the case, there are a couple of guys I should be gunning for now...but why bother, rather focus on my here and now....

 

AND, I TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR STAYING WITH THEM !!!!!!!!

As for Hitler and the 6 millions Jews that were killed... what about the 20 million Russians that died? Why do the Jews get more sympathy than the Russians? Is it because the Russians fought back, rather than be herded up and slaughtered like cattle? Do you see the point I'm getting at with these questions? I'm trying to get people to think about other perspectives. In an attempt to let people see past their own conceptions. Plenty of things have happened in this world that are horrendous.

 

 

Similarly, why do the Russians get more sympathy than the Jews? Is it because the Russians fought back, rather than be herded up and slaughtered like cattle? Think about this perspective if you can see beyond your own (mis-) conceptions?

 

 

So, who should get more sympathy, Dark?

 

But of course you're not looking for answers...(you know them already). You just like to ask the questions a la Socrates. Right? A true philosopher you are. The ancient Greeks stived for areti (virtue) in their philosophy. Just a reminder.

 

Oh and...They Russians fought back. The Jews couldn't. The Russians were killed. The Jews were exterminated. It was genocide and all because some raving "megalomaniac" got off on Nietsche and his theory of the "Superman"... or "super race" as the case may be..... See... superiority complexes can be extremely destructive on a grand (or smaller) scale. See: your ex!!!

[marlena]

MM,

Sorry for posting your post by mistake. I do agree with you 100% though.

[Darkzen]

LOL are you serious? When did I say the Russians deserve more sympathy? I'm merely asking why the Jews deserve more...

 

Virtue you say... hmm didn't Ancient Greeks rape boys? You can justify the logic behind it if you want, but these boys had no choice (that's rape in my book). Just because I agree with some of Socrates teachings doesn't mean that I agree with everything he did or believe myself to be him.

 

The main thing your argument is lacking is that the concepts you're describing happen even today, as well as through-out history. The specifics might be different, but the train of thought is identical. For example, what makes America right in the war on terrorism? What makes the terrorists wrong? What made the Allies right? What made the Axis wrong? If your breakdown of me is accurate, what makes me wrong? Technically, I'm merely following the example of humanity through-out time... which is simply, might makes right. I can fight back because I have the power and the desire to do so. The Russians fought back for the same reasons. The Jews on the other hand didn't have the desire and/or the will. I'm in the minority with my views only because, most people are so used to apathy that they can't relate to the concept of standing up for themselves. The concept scares them, it's alien in today's rampant political correctness and bleeding hearts.

 

I don't fear the judgments of others, I do what I feel is right if I have the power to do so. I will not be held prisoner by what other people think. If my actions have consequence, I'm willing to accept them. Most of you probably think I'm crazy or insane or whatever, I understand and accept your opinions. The truth of the matter is that if you really feel these things... you're obviously not worth my concern. I guess trying to discuss, concepts that expand the mind, is a fool's errand. But like I said, I don't care what some of you people think of me. It shows loud and clear when you try and justify your opinions, by showing other people who agree with you. Support doesn't mean anything, half of America supports a leader that choked himself unconscious on a pretzel. It doesn't change the fact that he's not a good president, let alone not a total moron (or maybe he's an evil genius, I still haven't decided yet). The facts are, my actions are within the scope of the society that I live in... until that changes, I've done nothing wrong. You may not agree with how I handle myself, but you've also done nothing to persuade me, that you're way is any better.

 

In closing... don't hate the player, hate the game. There's nothing stopping anyone from trying to change things to suit their perspective (aside from desire and/or will to do so).

[lindya]

I don't fear the judgments of others... I will not be held prisoner by what other people think....Most of you probably think I'm crazy or insane or whatever, I understand and accept your opinions.

 

So why did the judgements your ex girlfriend make about you have such an impact on you that you felt the only way to make her feel some of what you felt involved depriving her of $50k and reporting her into being fired from her job?

 

You reacted disproportionately. Unless, of course, you depended on that woman's opinion of you to the same degree that she would depend on a) the $50k and b) her job. If you did depend on her to that extent then yes, you probably are a bit insane.

[marlena]

LOL are you serious? When did I say the Russians deserve more sympathy? I'm merely asking why the Jews deserve more...

 

Virtue you say... hmm didn't Ancient Greeks rape boys? You can justify the logic behind it if you want, but these boys had no choice (that's rape in my book). Just because I agree with some of Socrates teachings doesn't mean that I agree with everything he did or believe myself to be him.

 

The main thing your argument is lacking is that the concepts you're describing happen even today, as well as through-out history. The specifics might be different, but the train of thought is identical. For example, what makes America right in the war on terrorism? What makes the terrorists wrong? What made the Allies right? What made the Axis wrong? If your breakdown of me is accurate, what makes me wrong? Technically, I'm merely following the example of humanity through-out time... which is simply, might makes right. I can fight back because I have the power and the desire to do so. The Russians fought back for the same reasons. The Jews on the other hand didn't have the desire and/or the will. I'm in the minority with my views only because, most people are so used to apathy that they can't relate to the concept of standing up for themselves. The concept scares them, it's alien in today's rampant political correctness and bleeding hearts.

 

I don't fear the judgments of others, I do what I feel is right if I have the power to do so. I will not be held prisoner by what other people think. If my actions have consequence, I'm willing to accept them. Most of you probably think I'm crazy or insane or whatever, I understand and accept your opinions. The truth of the matter is that if you really feel these things... you're obviously not worth my concern. I guess trying to discuss, concepts that expand the mind, is a fool's errand. But like I said, I don't care what some of you people think of me. It shows loud and clear when you try and justify your opinions, by showing other people who agree with you. Support doesn't mean anything, half of America supports a leader that choked himself unconscious on a pretzel. It doesn't change the fact that he's not a good president, let alone not a total moron (or maybe he's an evil genius, I still haven't decided yet). The facts are, my actions are within the scope of the society that I live in... until that changes, I've done nothing wrong. You may not agree with how I handle myself, but you've also done nothing to persuade me, that you're way is any better.

 

In closing... don't hate the player, hate the game. There's nothing stopping anyone from trying to change things to suit their perspective (aside from desire and/or will to do so).

LOL are you serious? When did I say the Russians deserve more sympathy? I'm merely asking why the Jews deserve more...

 

 

You didn't need to say it. It waw implied by your whole post. Learn how to read sub- texts!

 

Virtue you say... hmm didn't Ancient Greeks rape boys? You can justify the logic behind it if you want, but these boys had no choice (that's rape in my book). Just because I agree with some of Socrates teachings doesn't mean that I agree with everything he did or believe myself to be him.

 

The word I used was "strived".

 

Technically, I'm merely following the example of humanity through-out time... which is simply, might makes right.

 

So, it is the law of the jungle. Big fish eats small fish. Tarzan vs. Jane. Germans vs. Jews in the War. Darkzen vs. his ex! What do you want me to say? More power to you? However true "might makes right" may be, it does not make it right, simply because you say it is. Of course, you will counter that (I can just hear you) with "or wrong for that matter". Somewhere, however, society must draw the lines and set boundaries to protect its members. In society, that's where the judicial system steps in and decides who is "innocent" or who is "guilty". It just has to be. Otherwise, we would be living in constant terror of "the big guys". You know, those bullies you once knew. On an individual level, human beings have to decide what is "right" or "wrong" for themselves in so far as their actions are concerned provided of course they possess a conscience... Some do. Others don't (psychopaths).

 

The Jews on the other hand didn't have the desire and/or the will.

 

You should have been tried in the Nuremberg trials for this one!

 

The facts are, my actions are within the scope of the society that I live in... until that changes, I've done nothing wrong.

 

I surely hope it stays that way...for your girlfriend's sake and everyone else who comes within proximity of you.

[Darkzen]

lindya: I do not fear her judgments of me. I dislike them and her continued actions based on them. Just today I found out from a mutual friend that she's already started lying about things, in an attempt to make herself out as the good guy. Our friend couldn't believe she broke up with me, he couldn't see any reason she would leave me. Even after she gave him, her reasons, he thought she was full of it. I told him I reported her at work also. He understood my PoV on the matter and TBPH, he'd talked to her more than he has talked to me over the past year. He actually laughed about it when I told him, not one negative word about my actions. He's not a long time friend either, known him for 4 years and only met him in person once.

 

Like I said before, I don't have the power to change the world, but I do have the power to change things that affect me. The judgments of anonymous people on the internet do not affect me. Those judgments of people in the real world do affect me, being unfairly judged isn't cool. I don't fear it, but it does make me angry.

 

As for my retribution being disproportionate, I agree. Although, I feel it was disproportionate on the other end of the spectrum. My brother doesn't agree with me getting her fired, but he also feels that she owes me far more money than what I'm withholding from her. His reasoning for why he disagrees with me getting her fired is because it might lead to problems down the road... not because he feels that she doesn't deserve it.

 

marlena: I didn't imply anything. I asked questions, that's it. You read into it a bit farther than you should have. Asking a philosophical question isn't taking a stand.

 

So what if you said strived? The context in which you where making the point, was implying that the ancient Geeks were better than me for having virtue. I merely pointed out the flaw in that line of reasoning. How can they be better, if they themselves aren't perfect? I don't know about you, but getting "revenge" on an ex, is far less of a crime than raping boys IMHO.

 

LOL you just backed the point I was making. If the Judicial system is what makes the rules and I didn't break the rules... how can I be guilty? Do we not already live in constant terror of bullies? There are no laws that prevent a bully from being a bully. From people treating one another unfairly. From people inflicting emotional pain on each other. I'm merely leveling the playing field. My ex will think twice before hurting someone else, because she'll remember that not everyone will allow themselves to be walked all over.

 

As for having a conscience, I have one thank you. It just doesn't apply to those I consider bad people.

 

You believe me guilty of war crimes for having an opinion? Here's a hint, my father was a Russian/Polish Jew. He was also born in 1919. He had a doctorate, made himself wealthy and even was invited to the White House by President Johnson... oh and he was also knighted, in the order of the Maltese Cross. He gave money to many charities and did many good deeds for the underprivileged. His downfall was loving the wrong woman. I made the same mistake, except unlike my father, I won't let this woman get away with her selfish ways. Just as I made the same mistake as the majority of Jews in WWII, except unlike them, I will finally fight back. Maybe it's not a great or noble cause in the grand scheme of the world, it's a great and noble cause in my life and my perspective.

 

I will not break the law. I'm the type of person that needs order in my life. I come to a full stop at stop signs in parking lots at 3am with no one around, if that gives you any indication. It's one of the ideals I took with me from my time in the Army. Doing what's right, no matter what the circumstances are. So unless my views change on what's right, I will not be crossing that line.

[marlena]

lindya: I do not fear her judgments of me. I dislike them and her continued actions based on them. Just today I found out from a mutual friend that she's already started lying about things, in an attempt to make herself out as the good guy. Our friend couldn't believe she broke up with me, he couldn't see any reason she would leave me. Even after she gave him, her reasons, he thought she was full of it. I told him I reported her at work also. He understood my PoV on the matter and TBPH, he'd talked to her more than he has talked to me over the past year. He actually laughed about it when I told him, not one negative word about my actions. He's not a long time friend either, known him for 4 years and only met him in person once.

 

Like I said before, I don't have the power to change the world, but I do have the power to change things that affect me. The judgments of anonymous people on the internet do not affect me. Those judgments of people in the real world do affect me, being unfairly judged isn't cool. I don't fear it, but it does make me angry.

 

As for my retribution being disproportionate, I agree. Although, I feel it was disproportionate on the other end of the spectrum. My brother doesn't agree with me getting her fired, but he also feels that she owes me far more money than what I'm withholding from her. His reasoning for why he disagrees with me getting her fired is because it might lead to problems down the road... not because he feels that she doesn't deserve it.

 

marlena: I didn't imply anything. I asked questions, that's it. You read into it a bit farther than you should have. Asking a philosophical question isn't taking a stand.

 

So what if you said strived? The context in which you where making the point, was implying that the ancient Geeks were better than me for having virtue. I merely pointed out the flaw in that line of reasoning. How can they be better, if they themselves aren't perfect? I don't know about you, but getting "revenge" on an ex, is far less of a crime than raping boys IMHO.

 

LOL you just backed the point I was making. If the Judicial system is what makes the rules and I didn't break the rules... how can I be guilty? Do we not already live in constant terror of bullies? There are no laws that prevent a bully from being a bully. From people treating one another unfairly. From people inflicting emotional pain on each other. I'm merely leveling the playing field. My ex will think twice before hurting someone else, because she'll remember that not everyone will allow themselves to be walked all over.

 

As for having a conscience, I have one thank you. It just doesn't apply to those I consider bad people.

 

You believe me guilty of war crimes for having an opinion? Here's a hint, my father was a Russian/Polish Jew. He was also born in 1919. He had a doctorate, made himself wealthy and even was invited to the White House by President Johnson... oh and he was also knighted, in the order of the Maltese Cross. He gave money to many charities and did many good deeds for the underprivileged. His downfall was loving the wrong woman. I made the same mistake, except unlike my father, I won't let this woman get away with her selfish ways. Just as I made the same mistake as the majority of Jews in WWII, except unlike them, I will finally fight back. Maybe it's not a great or noble cause in the grand scheme of the world, it's a great and noble cause in my life and my perspective.

 

I will not break the law. I'm the type of person that needs order in my life. I come to a full stop at stop signs in parking lots at 3am with no one around, if that gives you any indication. It's one of the ideals I took with me from my time in the Army. Doing what's right, no matter what the circumstances are. So unless my views change on what's right, I will not be crossing that line.

He understood my PoV on the matter and TBPH, he'd talked to her more than he has talked to me over the past year. He actually laughed about it when I told him, not one negative word about my actions.

 

Could be a case of, you know, "Birds of a feather flock together" or the say in my part of the woods, "Show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are."

 

He's not a long time friend either, known him for 4 years and only met him in person once.

 

OR doesn't know you well enough yet.

 

Those judgments of people in the real world do affect me, being unfairly judged isn't cool. I don't fear it, but it does make me angry.

 

 

Or perhaps as someone else noted in here disproportionately angry? Could this be the crux of the problem?

 

So what if you said strived? The context in which you where making the point, was implying that the ancient Geeks were better than me for having virtue. I merely pointed out the flaw in that line of reasoning. How can they be better, if they themselves aren't perfect?

 

 

Yes, anyone striving for virtue, no matter how imperfect, is better than someone who does not strive for virtue, no matter his imperfections. Unless of course you do not believe that virtue is a good quality to strive for. Socrates does not represent ancient Greek ideals in their entirety.

 

Here's a hint, my father was a Russian/Polish Jew. He was also born in 1919.

 

May I ask where he was born? Did he fight ior even live through the war?

 

His downfall was loving the wrong woman.

 

If true, this is something you should have learnt from.

 

Doing what's right, no matter what the circumstances are. So unless my views change on what's right, I will not be crossing that line.

 

So is it safe to assume thatif your views do one day change, you will cross that line?

[Darkzen]

Whose to say I don't also strive for virtue? Nor was Socrates the only Ancient Greek guilty of molesting children. My point is really simple... don't judge an entire book based on only reading the preface. Obviously I understand that ancient Greece is far more than a single character written about a poet, Socrates may not even of really existed. Do I base all my opinions of Ancient Greece on the knowledge of a sole person? The answer is a resounding no.

 

I don't know much about my father before he met my mother, I was 5 or 6 when he died. And yes, I did make the same mistake. Love isn't really a lesson you can learn from second-hand experience IMHO.

 

My friend is happily married, has a daughter and is doing just fine. I also spent a large amount of time talking to him over the years. He trusted me enough to invite me to his home and meet his family. One of the possible questions you left off the list was... maybe he knew enough of my ex to know she has some issues and could understand why I chose to do what I did.

 

Change happens. Through-out history laws have changed to suit those in power. We must adapt to survive. So yes, if things changed to the point I felt justified in breaking the law, I would. Although atm, I live within this society and will obey it's rules.

[marlena]

Love isn't really a lesson you can learn from second-hand experience IMHO.

 

In total agreement here.

 

One of the possible questions you left off the list was... maybe he knew enough of my ex to know she has some issues and could understand why I chose to do what I did

 

And here. It, too, can be listed as a possibility.

 

 

So yes, if things changed to the point I felt justified in breaking the law, I would.

 

 

And, to an extent, with this . For example, if I lived in a dictatorship that banned free expression (which by the way I did), I would break the law.

 

Hey, Darkzen, finally agreed on some things with you!! What do you know? Miracles never cease to happen!!

[Teacher's Pet]

It's not illegal. The money part is basically, that she cashed in some stock options and we decided to invest the money... I can be a bastard and keep the investment because of the situation (and she has no legal grounds).

 

Personally, I'd keep the money.

 

Don't get her fired, though......

 

I had a perfect opportunity to get a major "legal" revenge on my ex, but I guess being "the nice guy", I didn't.

 

And trust me, the revenge I could have had would have made her really think twice about jerking a guy's heart around ever again.

 

Sometimes I think about "What if I went through with it?", but it's really not worth it.

 

In your case, if you can LEGALLY keep all that money, take it. You trusted her with your heart, she screwed you. She's trusting you with her money, SCREW HER.

 

Her job situation will probably unravel itself overtime anyway...let it happen naturally.

 

-tp

take the money and run!

[Trialbyfire]

As for Hitler and the 6 millions Jews that were killed... what about the 20 million Russians that died? Why do the Jews get more sympathy than the Russians? Is it because the Russians fought back, rather than be herded up and slaughtered like cattle? Do you see the point I'm getting at with these questions? I'm trying to get people to think about other perspectives. In an attempt to let people see past their own conceptions. Plenty of things have happened in this world that are horrendous. Is seeing the world from just one perspective, ignorant or enlightened?

Trialbyfire: So, because they had support makes it less of loss? 20 million died, let that sink into your brain for a second. So 3 people dying in a war is better than 1 person being tortured to death, is this what you're trying to say? Please explain that to their families and friends. I could go further but I doubt you'd understand my point.

 

 

Darkzen, let's play a logic game then. If I recall correctly, the Russian tactic was to draw the Germans further into their country thus stretching supply lines and over-extending military forces to the point where they were greatly weakened. Also, the harsh environment and weather were part of the tactic to erode on the Germans. In taking this tactic by allowing enemy forces deep into their own country, the 20 million people were considered collateral damage or expendable losses by the Russians...themselves. The Jews were slaughtered by their fellow countryman with nowhere to go. Btw, I'm both Russian and Jew so any racial bias is moot.

 

So...do you see yourself as making the difficult decisions? To compare yourself to either the Russian or Jewish situation, smacks of megalomania.

 

There's nothing noble in "revenge". There's no real justification for it, just like there's no real justification for whatever evil actions she enacted on you. It's an act of power balancing between two insignificant entities on the scale of human history.

 

The sooner you accept that, the better. You will not get support by pretending altruism of any kind. You will not "win" by attempting to infuse nobility of any kind into your actions. Your actions just "are". You did it, there are repercussions to it. Accept the repercussions as an adult. Bear the responsibility for your need to power balance.

 

To restate my position, I don't disagree that sometimes a person needs to do whatever, revenge or otherwise, to move on. Hell, I did it myself and have no remorse or regrets. What I don't see in you Darkzen, is the most important part of moving on. You continue to allow her to have power over you. In this, she wins.

[luvmy2ns]

As for this gal getting in trouble at work, didn't she give you information she shouldn't be sharing with you, as well as other untrustworthy behavior as an employee? I just don't want to try to find it back in this looooong thread, but I'm pretty certain I read it somewhere. I work with personal information in criminal justice, and I know what is public record and not. There are some things you just cannot share with anyone, no matter what. It's your job; your duty as someone who has been trusted with that information. If someone like her were in my position and it was your very sensitive personal information she was sharing, would you want her to continue on in that position with access to further personal information?

 

Sorry. Just a thought. Carry on.

[Darkzen]

Trialbyfire: I think that I have been mis-interpreted. I wasn't comparing myself to any of the philosophical questions I asked. I merely wanted people to see the double standards of certain conceptions. I eventually figured it was a balance of power that I sought, which is what I consider justice to be basically. I didn't use that term, but I mentioned the need for reckoning and to feel things were balanced.

 

I also understand the tactics the Russians used. I'm a fan of history in general, although my favorite is ancient history. I'm not taking sides at all. I was implying, what makes one life more valuable than another? I don't personally feel that either situation is acceptable. Nor do I see either situation worse than the other TBH. However, the Russians had much heavier losses. Very few people realize this fact, most think "holocaust" when they think of WWII... I was just trying to point out that other bad things happened, if people are willing to see them. Hence the correlation of perspective. I used a situation that pretty much everyone is familiar with for a reason. So people could identify a bit easier than some obscure and/or hypothetical reference. Maybe it wasn't the best analogy. My intention wasn't to compare myself to the loss of millions of human lives.

 

As for her having power over me, you can feel that. The break-up was a week ago. Obviously, curiosity is getting the best of me as I wait to hear the results. Be sure that once it's all finalized, I'll be moving on without a second thought. Everyone likes to take a second, to admire their handiwork, before moving on to the next project.

 

marlena: Not a miracle, merely the wonder of discussion

 

Teacher's Pet: It's a damn good feeling. I'd recommend everyone try it at least once. I'd compare it to finally standing up to a bully, after they picked on you for years. It's better than bottling it up and eating yourself away from within IMHO.

[Darkzen]

As for this gal getting in trouble at work, didn't she give you information she shouldn't be sharing with you, as well as other untrustworthy behavior as an employee? I just don't want to try to find it back in this looooong thread, but I'm pretty certain I read it somewhere. I work with personal information in criminal justice, and I know what is public record and not. There are some things you just cannot share with anyone, no matter what. It's your job; your duty as someone who has been trusted with that information. If someone like her were in my position and it was your very sensitive personal information she was sharing, would you want her to continue on in that position with access to further personal information?

 

Sorry. Just a thought. Carry on.

 

Yes, the worst part about it is that she only had this power because her supervisor was on vacation. She was looking at other people's personnel records in her department. She wanted to know how much other people made, then she would tell me about it. So it wasn't even really her duty. Plus she would read her old supervisor's e-mails (he was a VP) and tell me about sensitive company information (stuff that wasn't public yet). If I was the type of person that cared, I could have easily used this information to do insider trading... the funny part is that she works at the company, that Martha Stewart was linked to on her insider trading charges.

 

I totally agree with the premise though. I once got into an argument with a Canadian doctor on a different message board, because he was telling a joke at one of his patient's expense. He didn't give any personal information or anything, but I thought it was extremely bad taste and against his ethics as a doctor.

[VIP]

Darkzen, let's play a logic game then. If I recall correctly, the Russian tactic was to draw the Germans further into their country thus stretching supply lines and over-extending military forces to the point where they were greatly weakened. Also, the harsh environment and weather were part of the tactic to erode on the Germans. In taking this tactic by allowing enemy forces deep into their own country, the 20 million people were considered collateral damage or expendable losses by the Russians...themselves. The Jews were slaughtered by their fellow countryman with nowhere to go. Btw, I'm both Russian and Jew so any racial bias is moot.

 

Russians didn't have the weapons and tanks that Germans had, that's why they had to retreat slowly with great losses. It took them a few years to build those weapons. Many Russian jews were fighting in that war along with Russians and other nationalities. So the things you said are very disrespectful to those who lost their lives.

[mental_traveller]

mental_traveller: I believe that immoral actions aren't right regardless of the legality, but I also believe that breaking morality is acceptable in combating evil doers. This isn't a new concept to society, we do it every day. We kill in the name of justice and a good portion of society sees it as heroic.

 

She's stolen much money from me over the course of nine years, she entered a relationship (a verbal contract) under false pretenses. Is that not the same as stealing? I spent much money on a lie of a relationship. So if we want to take that approach, she still owes me. She breached the contract and should pay reparations, is that unfair to you? I wouldn't have spent money on her if she didn't deceive me (I'm talking about everything over my own costs of living).

 

Well, you still need the concept of proportionality. We don't kill for parking offences, or hurt feelings after relationships, and then call it justice.

 

In any case, a relationship is not a verbal contract. Matters of the heart are not business transactions, and are quite rightly not treated as such by society or the law. If someone stands you up, you can't sue. If someone says "I'll call you" and then doesn't, they haven't committed an offence. That's just the slings and arrows of social/romantic relationships, and there isn't a society on earth that thinks otherwise. So she deceived you - are you saying then, that people should be entitled to monetary damages any time they are told a lie or deceived in a relationship? Very few people think that, and if you are honest I don't think you would either.

 

Unless she has committed outright fraud or theft, I don't see how you can lay claim to her money. And if she has done that, then shouldn't you be suing her in a court of law, where a genuinely impartial judge/jury can decide matters? There is a reason why divorces are handled by judges and not by the aggrieved husband or wife, after all. How can one party in a dispute give a fair and objective settlement? You were not even married to her, yet you are taking it upon yourself to effectively impose a divorce, and then actually preside over the splitting of property yourself! Surely you can see the problem with that?

 

Anyway, I don't fully know your financial dealings with her, so I can't be sure about it until you give more information. What did she do exactly to con you out of more than $50k?

[marlena]

Well, you still need the concept of proportionality. We don't kill for parking offences, or hurt feelings after relationships, and then call it justice.

 

I rest your case!

[mental_traveller]

Anyway, I don't fully know your financial dealings with her, so I can't be sure about it until you give more information. What did she do exactly to con you out of more than $50k?

 

Ok I just saw your explanation earlier in the thread. It's still not 100% clear to me - did she invest with your brother, and then the investment went south and legitimately didn't work out, losing all the money? If so then I don't see the issue here - she lost her money fair and square in a business deal, why would you or your brother owe her anything?

[mental_traveller]

Only took 17 pages for someone to understand my reasoning. Kudos for taking the time to look at things from my perspective, as opposed to just bashing me for my beliefs.

 

The reason it took so long is because your posts were rather unclear, and you didn't explain the situation fully. For example, you gave the impression you'd be withholding a sizable amount of her money. Only by wading through 15 pages would one finally come across a sentence in one of your posts that explained the reality of the situation - that you weren't withholding her money at all, but merely asking your brother not to give her $50k of his own money.

 

That makes a big difference. So you have 15 pages of people thinking your were committing borderline theft, whereas the facts were totally different. That's 15 pages and a lot of people's time that you wasted, for want of being clear in your initial posts.

 

If you hold back information that would make your actions understandable, you can't complain if people then don't understand your actions.

[Newtotheblogthing]

Ok, so quickly. My ex and i broke up a few months ago after 3 years. he has a new girlfriend already who lives next door (sorry for those of you who have heard this, I've posted a lot!) but I went over there one night and we slept together, we have been together a few other times as well. It has now ended and we are not getting back together but I often get angry about it. I know it's bad but I have her email and telephone numbers and would love to send her something anonymously of course to tell her that her new boyfriend is obviously not completely over his ex as he has already cheated on you! Sick, I won't do it but it's not to say I don't secretly want to!!!

 

I know she is the innocent bystander in all of this.. but my ego get's the better of me and I want her to know he truly loves me (delusional!!). I want to ruin it for him.. but I let him do what he wanted and frankly will not be THAT person. Anyone want to do it for me? Just kidding.

 

Sort of but really I wouldn't.

[lost4ever]

Did she do anything besides not love you anymore? You are being a big baby, Deal with it (sorry for being harsh) but you are being unrational (think of this as the wake up b*tch slap)--- what did you mean by she had the chance to do the right thing and didn't (what was that right thing) She wasted 9 years of your life (what about her) did she not give you 9 years of her life? Did she not make you happy for nine years (of course she did or you would not have stayed) and now you want to make sure she has nothing????

[Darkzen]

You want to hear the whole story? It's very long and yes, I let hope get the better of me for far too long.

 

Basically, Her dad was friends with my oldest brother and through association he was friends with me. One day I'm at his house hanging out, I was 17 at the time. I met her while she was visiting from boarding school and I felt a connection to her. I spoke to her father, looking for permission to approach her and he told me no. One of his other friends slept with his older daughter a couple months before this (this other friend was close to his age). So whatever, I forgot all about her.

 

4 years later, I come home from basic training and happen to encounter her father one night. Now suddenly, he's all about hooking us up. Everyone I know is trying to hook me up, I have 3 different girls all wanting to go out with me in this two week period... before I get shipped out to Bosnia. Unfortunately for me, I hit it off with my ex the best. So during the courtship, we're both really into one another. In-fact, some people in line at six flags, made a comment about "how we're in love". Right after that she kind of did a 180 and I noticed it, but fooled myself into ignoring it.

 

So once I get back to base, we talk on the phone every night. I was upfront and honest with her. I told her "if you feel things aren't working out for whatever reason, just tell me and be honest... it's all I ask". We decide to become a couple, make a commitment to one another. I had a handful of girls at the time interested in me, but rejected them all because I was in a relationship (my word is my bond).

 

When I get back from Bosnia, I asked her if she wanted to come spend the summer with me in Texas (she had a 4 month break from school). She agreed and I went out and spent the majority of money I saved from Bosnia getting a place, furnishing it and getting a vehicle. This is when she turned my friends against me by spreading lies and also when she messed around with a guy I knew shortly before she went home (as far as I know about anyways, she could have done even more). Then I come to find out she messed around with 2 or 3 guys at school while I was in Bosnia. We talk through it and she wants to stay and promises to not do it again... hope influences me to agree.

 

Then I get out of the Army a year later and move back to NYC (she still has a year of college left in Philly). I get to see her a lot more often though. Things are still rough between us, I have some trust issues and explain to her it'll take time for that to heal. So we have a fight on my birthday and she heads back to school, we're still together. She ends up messing around with her lab partner on valentines' day (the day after my birthday). So, being a hopeful and an understanding guy, I take her back yet again.

 

That last act of infidelity really did something to me, I became withdrawn and guarded. I hid behind video games and lost a lot of my drive. I got depressed. I had some other issues at the time too and it felt like every time I tried to stand-up, people just kept pushing me back down. I always tried to do the right thing and people took advantage of me.

 

Things got better between us over the next 5 years, but she's a major bitch when she doesn't get her way. This didn't help me come out of my shell. I just didn't see enough of a change in her way of thinking to make me want to open myself up to be hurt again. I became very unemotional at times, it's how I coped.

 

I was always there for her emotionally or financially whenever she needed support. Nothing drastically changed in the relationship, but I was having a bout of depression and felt really lonely... I called her to talk and she dumped me. The one time I ever asked her for any type of support and she kicked me in my teeth. No rhyme or reason, didn't even have the respect to do it to my face.

 

If someone can do that to another person, they're evil in my book.

 

She didn't waste her time, she got what she wanted out of me... until I lost my value, then she jumped ship. What did I get for my time invested? A broken heart and abuse. I was very rarely happy in the relationship, but doing what you feel is right, isn't usually easy or enjoyable. Well sorry, but F-that and F-her. She treated me like an enemy... I became her enemy. I'm done doing what's right for someone that won't be enough of a human-being to return the favor.

 

She felt no remorse for her actions... that's all I wanted to have things feel right in my eyes. Now she'll feel regret instead. Regret that she pushed me one too many times. She probably figured I'd be a nice guy after all this (just like I was for the past 9 years), so she left herself very vulnerable to me. Not expecting me to fight back.

 

As for the clarity of my posts... I explained that I'm not very good at being clear, that I leave out important corresponding thoughts. Besides, that's what a conversation is all about... statement, interpretation and clarification.

 

Proportionality is fine and dandy... know what she said when I explained my reasons? "fair enough". If I feel it's justified and so does she, that's all that really matters. I went down the list of things she did to me and what I did in return and to each point she said "fair enough".

 

My brother doesn't owe her anything. He was planning to reimburse her because he felt it was the right thing to do. It's not a total stranger who lost their investment... it was his brother and his brother's GF (who he has also known for nine years). My oldest brother has know her for even longer than I have.

 

I'll probably have news today if she is getting fired btw. I'll post it once I find out.

[sb129]

That last act of infidelity really did something to me, I became withdrawn and guarded. I hid behind video games and lost a lot of my drive. I got depressed. I had some other issues at the time too and it felt like every time I tried to stand-up, people just kept pushing me back down. I always tried to do the right thing and people took advantage of me.

 

Why didn't you end it then? If people continue to treat you badly, alot of it is because you ALLOW them to, which makes you partially to blame.

 

You stuck around for another FIVE (:eek:) years.

 

Things got better between us over the next 5 years, but she's a major bitch when she doesn't get her way. This didn't help me come out of my shell. I just didn't see enough of a change in her way of thinking to make me want to open myself up to be hurt again. I became very unemotional at times, it's how I coped.

 

Shes a major bitch when she doesn't get her way????

 

But when you don't get your way, you are a perfect angel, right?

[LucreziaBorgia]

It sounds like you picked up a snake, Darkzen - and were surprised when it bit you the first time, and continued to bite you when you didn't put it down. It may hurt, what she did to you - but it can be considered the kindest cut in that it freed you from her. Imagine living out the rest of your life being bitten over, and over, and over...

 

As for her job, I'd be interested in how this turns out. It is easy to say that people like her end up destroying themselves, but I know plenty who end up prospering well at the expense of others and simply never stumble and in fact end up more powerful. Such is the inequity of life, I guess.