Would you destroy another person's life?

[sb129]

It sounds like you picked up a snake, Darkzen - and were surprised when it bit you the first time, and continued to bite you when you didn't put it down. It may hurt, what she did to you - but it can be considered the kindest cut in that it freed you from her. Imagine living out the rest of your life being bitten over, and over, and over...

 

As for her job, I'd be interested in how this turns out. It is easy to say that people like her end up destroying themselves, but I know plenty who end up prospering well at the expense of others and simply never stumble and in fact end up more powerful. Such is the inequity of life, I guess.

 

 

This is true. Either that, or you don't get the satisfaction of seeing someone who did you wrong ever getting their "comeuppance" because you have nothing to do with them anymore.

 

However, I still can't understand why he stuck around for 5 years after she bit him so badly. Surely that means some of the "blame" (for want of a better word) for the end result lies with him?

 

Whilst I have not condoned Darkzens actions, I actually DO agree that his GF doesn't sound like the sweetest thing in the chocolate box.

However, it took him 9 years to realise that, even after she did him wrong during the first 4 years.

[Darkzen]

I'm a nice person, too nice in-fact. I believe in trying to help people and I let this attribute blind me to things for a long time. I know that now and take blame for it. It's something I have to deal with, but like I said before, it doesn't absolve her of what she did. Obviously, people shouldn't put themselves in vulnerable positions... but that doesn't give people the right to take advantage of them. That is the concept I've been talking about. There are no checks and balances for this type of thing, except what people impose upon others.

 

I wasn't perfect in the relationship. I became withdrawn and guarded, at times even unemotional. I never did anything to hurt her, intentionally or not. Even when I felt like poop, I was always there to support her (or anyone else that I could). I'm loyal to a fault. I live my life treating people the way I would like to be treated. I'm extremely forgiving to a point. I'm passionate about my ideals. I will gladly lay down my life for those I care about, yet I will also do whatever is in my power to destroy those who I consider my enemy. It takes a lot for people to become my enemy.

 

As for her getting fired, no word yet. The investigator told me it'd take a week or two. I have a feeling that she's gone. She called the head of HR a "pompous prick" at a company party a few years back... I'm sure he's itching to fire her. Besides all the evidence I gave them. The company already has marks against them for insider trading, I doubt they can look the other way when an employee is giving out private, sensitive company information to people. I was also very upfront with the investigator and told him my reasons, as well as, that I'd be willing to sign an affidavit and/or testify. Plus when I spoke to her this week to handle our cell phone contract, she sounded pretty upset that I filed the report (so they must have approached her and not swept it under the "psycho ex-BF" rug)... and they moved up a deadline to the end of the week on her.

[JamesM]

First off, I want to thank you for fighting for our country. I don't think I said that yet. I always have a great admiration for anyone who serves in the military. While I did not, my father served in Korea. I am somewhat aware of the sacrifices he made...although he doesn't talk about what happened much.

 

I also want to say that you did endure a lot of crap from your ex. But as you know and have said, you chose to do that. Why...only you can and have attempted to answer. I can say that I would not have stayed so long, but I am not you.

 

I can still say that even after hearing your story, that I don't think I would do what you did. Revenge would not make me feel any better. Besides, I think if you relate your retributory actions to your next girlfriend, then she may not see it as justices served. She may instead wonder what you would do to HER.

 

If you are as "nice" to women as you say you are, then some counseling may be helpful. I put it in quotes, because I don't view it as nice, but I think it can be better called passive. An assertive person who sticks up for him or herself can still be compassionate and kind. Actually, a person who does not speak up for himself is NOT kind to his partner. This shows a disrespect for a healthy relationship. It also shows a lack of interest in open communication. (But truthfully, she shares as much of the blame for this as you...and from your story, it looks like she is more to blame). It also can be viewed as not taking responsibility for his part in the relationship.

 

You have a sad story with your ex, but my question to you is...what have you done or what will you do to prevent it from happening again? And the answer is not "I will pick a better person," because that is not only a given but it is a going to be just as difficult as it was the last time. Many times relationship die because of what we did after we picked the perfect person. Yes, many relationships are doomed from the beginning. However, the majority are doomed from the lack of open communication.

 

My suggestion is...find out what you can do differently next time and "fix" yourself before beginning a serious relationship with another woman.

[Kasan]

You have a sad story with your ex, but my question to you is...what have you done or what will you do to prevent it from happening again? And the answer is not "I will pick a better person," because that is not only a given but it is a going to be just as difficult as it was the last time. Many times relationship die because of what we did after we picked the perfect person. Yes, many relationships are doomed from the beginning. However, the majority are doomed from the lack of open communication.

 

My suggestion is...find out what you can do differently next time and "fix" yourself before beginning a serious relationship with another woman.

 

I also wondered about this too...how do you pick up the pieces and enter another relationship? I think that you said Dark that you had kids....what are they thinking?

[Darkzen]

I have no children, I refuse to have any until I can give them the support and stability that they deserve.

 

As for what I can do in the future... I can be true to myself first and foremost. I wasn't true to my ideals because I wanted to help her fight her demons and become a better person. I cared for her a lot, some of it was because she was my first love and some of it was because I feel good about helping others. So rather than give up on her, I chose to suck it up and do what I believe was right. I know better now, I realized that some people do not want to be better. These people are guidelines for us to strive against.

 

I also tried to communicate all the time. I explained to her on many occasions the problems I was having. She just didn't care. I was feeling lonely when I called her because I'm currently in New England and she's in NYC. She was supposed to move up here and then eventually we were planning to move to California once I finished school. I'm sure that her not wanting to move had a little something to do with her decision. Even if she said it didn't. I just wanted some honesty and she couldn't give that to me, she said that she didn't love me since last summer (but she asked me to marry her after that).

 

Her reasons weren't logical and every example she mentioned to support her view, was inaccurate or fabricated. My brother started a conversation about how horse-back riding is cruel to the horses and because of this discussion, she stopped horse-back riding. She thinks I was the one who "forced" her to stop horse-back riding... every reason she gave was similar to this. Things that she thought happened one way, didn't happen that way at all. She put all this unfair blame onto my shoulders. I'd have been cool if she just told me the truth... whether it was because she met someone new or it was because I was too needy atm for her to deal with. It was the last straw, it broke the way I viewed her. If she doesn't care about me and does something to hurt me for her own selfish reasons, why is it wrong for me to return the favor?

 

As for the Military, thank you, many people take the sacrifice soldiers make for granted. Not because they don't care, but because they can't relate. It's also probably why your father doesn't talk about it much. I'm sure that your father had it much worse than I did. Thankfully I never had to kill anyone, but my life was constantly in danger (I was in Bosnia when the Kosovo situation broke out in 1998). Also, people that I served with, have been killed in action during this current conflict. It's not an easy thing to deal with, I can only imagine how hard it is to deal with, if you're there and see your friends die in front of you.

 

Otherwise, I've been working on fixing myself. Getting back into shape again, not feeling down all the time and doing things that I hadn't done in years (like going out/having fun). The revenge won't make me feel better, I fully agree, but it will make me feel that things are even at least... leaving no questions to linger in my head.

[lindya]

...my life was constantly in danger (I was in Bosnia when the Kosovo situation broke out in 1998). Also, people that I served with, have been killed in action during this current conflict. It's not an easy thing to deal with, I can only imagine how hard it is to deal with, if you're there and see your friends die in front of you.

 

Otherwise, I've been working on fixing myself. Getting back into shape again, not feeling down all the time and doing things that I hadn't done in years (like going out/having fun). The revenge won't make me feel better, I fully agree, but it will make me feel that things are even at least... leaving no questions to linger in my head.

 

I think you said you had received some therapy, so I'm presuming that the possibility of you suffering some degree of PTDS has been discussed.

 

Were the things you did to your ex justified in accordance with the principles of proportionality? You've said that you think so, and that she appears to agree - and that that's all that matters. Maybe.

 

If a person has spent a lengthy period of time in some situation where they're frequently placed at risk (whether that's from being in a high risk occupation, or an abusive relationship), and if that person has higher levels of sensitivity/idealism than average, then it seems logical to conclude that they're at higher risk of developing PTSD.

 

In a nutshell, the more sensitive and idealistic you are, the harder life can be. Your sense of justice is more likely to be offended on a regular basis. You're liable to be harder hit, perhaps, by episodes of injustice. That popular and much-advocated pastime of "moving on" is not going to be an easy thing to do when traumatic episodes are in the habit of replaying themselves over and and over in your mind.

 

Traumas tend to become linked in our minds. You experience an upsetting incident, and it raises ghosts of other distressing events in your mind. People talk about resolving certain issues, but maybe it's more realistic to talk about learning to manage them. Learning to differentiate between traumatic events. Recognising when a new trauma is conjuring up feelings and memories of previous severe trauma. Otherwise you risk excessively punishing people for evoking feelings and distress in you that their behaviour is not, in fact, wholly responsible for evoking.

 

People mocked you for comparing this current situation to events in Bosnia, but it seems inevitable that you would, in light of your personal experiences. I really think, Darkzen, that you're linking the injustice you felt from your ex girlfriend's behaviour towards you with other injustices you've witnessed, which have left their mark on you. Which might explain why you've reacted so forcefully (in the view of many people, over-reacted) to what she did.

[Darkzen]

That's pretty good breakdown and I agree with much of it. The one thing that really stuck out, was this...

 

People mocked you for comparing this current situation to events in Bosnia, but it seems inevitable that you would, in light of your personal experiences. I really think, Darkzen, that you're linking the injustice you felt from your ex girlfriend's behaviour towards you with other injustices you've witnessed, which have left their mark on you. Which might explain why you've reacted so forcefully (in the view of many people, over-reacted) to what she did.

 

Doesn't everyone? We're all human and we learn from our experiences, obviously it will help shape our future decisions. My experiences have been different and hence, my reactions are different.

 

I'm very idealistic and I probably do suffer from PTDS to a degree. I also play things over in my head, it's what gives me conviction in my decisions. I became a much different person after she cheated on me, I deluded myself to be accepting of things that I felt are wrong (to my very core). I did this because I also believe that people deserve a second chance and that people can change. Once I started compromising my beliefs and ideals, I got depressed and lost my drive. It gets tiresome constantly having to pick yourself back up. It's also why I'm a "nice guy", I don't like how it feels when treated badly and refuse to inflict that on others without justification.

 

I didn't have an easy life to say the least. I grew up with a friend's family, because of how dysfunctional mine was (and the new family had their issues too). I was exposed to gangs and had to work for everything. I had no free rides. I could be bitter at the world, but instead I continue to take shots and pick myself up, rather than take the easy route. I'm just tired of being walked on for trying to do the right thing. I don't think it's acceptable that people get away with some of the things they do. Nor does it seem like anyone else cares much of the time.

 

I'm not going to lie, when I replay things in my head, it angers me at times and I have much darker day-dreams. I could probably do much more to her, without breaking any laws. Embracing my dark side, isn't me though. I feel bad causing others pain of any kind (unless I feel it's justified). Overall, I'm just tired and don't want to take the stance of apathy again. To do so isn't being true to myself, just like I wasn't after my ex cheated on me. I don't want to feel depressed and lonely any more. If that means, I have to become a bad guy at times... I'm prepared to live with that.

[lindya]

I'm very idealistic and I probably do suffer from PTDS to a degree. I also play things over in my head, it's what gives me conviction in my decisions. I became a much different person after she cheated on me, I deluded myself to be accepting of things that I felt are wrong (to my very core). I did this because I also believe that people deserve a second chance and that people can change. Once I started compromising my beliefs and ideals, I got depressed and lost my drive. It gets tiresome constantly having to pick yourself back up. It's also why I'm a "nice guy", I don't like how it feels when treated badly and refuse to inflict that on others without justification.

 

Okay. I can relate to a lot of that. Every time I've done any of those personality tests, I've come out as a healer-idealist. Not good news when the tests are part of a job interview. I too play things over in my head, and it can get very destructive.

 

Someone said something on another thread about ultimatums being for losers. My gut reaction on reading that was anger and a sense of injustice - because I've delivered an ultimatum once before, felt I was very justified in doing so. I received an extremely cold response from a person who had himself made it clear that he did not believe in compromising. It all felt very unfair, and issuing the ultimatum felt like the only way I could finally empower myself.

 

I think it's a human reaction, when you're feeling stressed out and desperately unhappy, to reach for some sense of power. Whether that involves issuing someone with an ultimatum as I did, or taking revenge as you did. It will generally result, however, in a power struggle which hurts everyone...but most of all it hurts the person with the least power. If you're the one who cares more about the relationship, then you're that person. It's a hard thing to accept - being on the wrong end of the power imbalance....but taking revenge or issuing ultimatums won't change the underlying relationship dynamic that made you feel so powerless in the first place. It might give you some resulting sense of power - but it won't take away that memory of having, at some point, been in the position of angry, powerless victim.

 

I'm just tired of being walked on for trying to do the right thing. I don't think it's acceptable that people get away with some of the things they do. Nor does it seem like anyone else cares much of the time.

 

Tired of doing the right thing and feeling powerless in the face of people who you perceive as doing the wrong thing and getting away with it? That's a natural reaction...but the depression, frustration and anger that stems from it might prove to be your enemies, as much as the people who do those wrong things.

 

I'm not going to lie, when I replay things in my head, it angers me at times and I have much darker day-dreams. I could probably do much more to her, without breaking any laws. Embracing my dark side, isn't me though. I feel bad causing others pain of any kind (unless I feel it's justified). Overall, I'm just tired and don't want to take the stance of apathy again. To do so isn't being true to myself, just like I wasn't after my ex cheated on me. I don't want to feel depressed and lonely any more. If that means, I have to become a bad guy at times... I'm prepared to live with that.

 

I don't think you necessarily have to feel apathetic. We can debate forever about whether or not you should have taken revenge, and get nowhere. Rather than continuing to dwell on the rights and wrongs of how you handled this particular situation it might be helpful to think of ways reflect on it in a way that might help you have better, happier relationships in the future.

 

A good thing for you to do might involve reflecting on that horrible situation with your ex and rewriting a script in your mind. Instead of recalling unkind things she said, imagine how your ideal woman might have responded when - for instance - you became needy or upset. I do the same thing with my "ultimatum" situation. Unlike you with your revenge thing, I feel I did make a mistake with that. Although that relationship had to end, I don't want to be that person who issues ultimatums - because a) it's not good negotiation (and I usually pride myself on my negotiating skills) and b) It sends out a hostile message. "I want to control everything. My way or no way." With hindsight, it was ugly and I'm not proud of it.

 

So what I do, rewriting the script, is imagine me making what I believe was a mistake (the ultimatum) and my ideal man responding ideally...which would be along the lines of "I know you're in crisis right now, and that's why you're resorting to behaviour and threats which aren't really like you. I've no intention of being forced into a corner by this ultimatum, but I understand why you're doing it. I'm willing to stay here and talk if you can find a better way of expressing yourself. A way that's more in keeping with the person I know you are."

 

I don't know if I'd ever find a man who would respond in that way. Possibly not. An approach like that is all a bit too touchy-feely and new-agey for a lot of guys. What rewriting the script in that way does do for me is help me to acknowledge that I didn't handle things as well as I could have done, but to also acknowledge that I was in a pretty severe emotional crisis at the time and my coping/reasoning mechanisms were shot to pieces. Acknowledge that I didn't conduct myself brilliantly, then forgive myself for it. If I'm ever in a situation like that again, hopefully I can draw on that imaginary script (be my own "ideal man" in a sense )to pull myself together instead of conjuring up the horrible old real life scenario and consequently going into traumatised "victim" mode.

 

I've found that people will tend to run from you when you're in crisis mode (unless they think they can exploit it in some way), but if they perceive strength in you during crisis they'll often be unflinching in their support. It's about respect really. Respect is number one priority in a relationship - and my personal experience is that you get more of it if you focus on controlling yourself and your reactions other than attempting to control other people's.

[hot123]

Have you considered chopping her up with an axe?

too funny....sounds like it may be in the cards for the poor girl!

[Darkzen]

too funny....sounds like it may be in the cards for the poor girl!

 

I actually own a battle axe. But if I were to perform such a deed, it'd be done in a way to prevent myself from getting caught. Probably a long range rifle with scope, from a good enough distance to get out unseen. Or I could go with breaking/entering her apt and poisoning all the drinks in her fridge. Hell, I could even go to my old military days and set up an ambush, finishing her with a quick slit across the throat... in a dark alley or the entryway of her apt building. Why limit myself to a simplistic method of assassination...

 

Is that even more funny?

 

Ah, maybe you're not a fan of dark humor...

[Darkzen]

lindya: I already know how to I would rewrite the script in my head. I'd want someone that isn't selfish and evil. Optimally, I could have done more, but TBPH I doubt it would have changed the type of person she is... merely extended the inevitable. I should have followed my logic in the beginning and left after I found out she did me wrong... instead I followed my ideals and my heart. It sucks mainly because either I keep my guard up and don't trust anyone in the future or I live my life fighting back against people such as my ex. I don't try and help people for fear that they'll disappoint me or I do what I can to help (fighting back as necessary). Damned if I do and damned if I don't, it would appear.

 

At least until I perfect the art of seeing through deception and lies.

[hot123]

too funny....sounds like it may be in the cards for the poor girl!

 

I actually own a battle axe. But if I were to perform such a deed, it'd be done in a way to prevent myself from getting caught. Probably a long range rifle with scope, from a good enough distance to get out unseen. Or I could go with breaking/entering her apt and poisoning all the drinks in her fridge. Hell, I could even go to my old military days and set up an ambush, finishing her with a quick slit across the throat... in a dark alley or the entryway of her apt building. Why limit myself to a simplistic method of assassination...

 

Is that even more funny?

 

Ah, maybe you're not a fan of dark humor...

I assure you I am a fan...lol...although now youll be the prime suspect im sure... i wouldnt go for the "hands on" approach here and no overkill it will look personal ...youll have to hire someone probably...im not serious btw...before i get bombarded w/responses

[Darkzen]

I assure you I am a fan...lol...although now youll be the prime suspect im sure... i wouldnt go for the "hands on" approach here and no overkill it will look personal ...youll have to hire someone probably...im not serious btw...before i get bombarded w/responses

 

It's all about the planning and execution (forgive the pun). If they have no real evidence and you have a solid alibi, they can't reasonably convict you. Building a case on circumstantial evidence, with all the hard evidence proving otherwise... would be an extremely hard to win. Look at OJ Simpson. Most people consider him guilty, yet they didn't have the evidence to convict him.

[hot123]

Well...it is clear that you havent given this any thought ...lol:bunny:

[Darkzen]

Well...it is clear that you haven't given this any thought ...lol:bunny:

 

I think about about a lot of things. It's the way my mind works. I have very little control over it, in-fact this leads to insomnia quite a bit. Nor are my thoughts limited to only plotting crimes... I actually contemplate all types of things.

 

I'm a thinker, a dreamer, an idealist and a realist. I may entertain fantasies, but I'm firmly planted in reality. I may hope for the best, but I'm not disappointed when it doesn't happen. At least when it's something beyond my control.

[hot123]

I think about about a lot of things. It's the way my mind works. I have very little control over it, in-fact this leads to insomnia quite a bit. Nor are my thoughts limited to only plotting crimes... I actually contemplate all types of things.

 

I'm a thinker, a dreamer, an idealist and a realist. I may entertain fantasies, but I'm firmly planted in reality. I may hope for the best, but I'm not disappointed when it doesn't happen. At least when it's something beyond my control.

same here...except for mine is almost always limited to the plotting of crimes.....and shopping....hehe

[Trimmer]

same here...except for mine is almost always limited to the plotting of crimes.....and shopping....hehe

You could save time and just focus your time on planning shoplifting sprees...

[Darkzen]

You could save time and just focus your time on planning shoplifting sprees...

 

I have to admit, that was quite amusing.

[hot123]

You could save time and just focus your time on planning shoplifting sprees...

ok...than ill need a gettaway driver and some duct tape

[lindya]

I sense potential for a folie à deux situation to develop here...

[Darkzen]

I sense potential for a folie à deux situation to develop here...

 

I resent the implication, I'm not delusional or suffer from mental illness. I just have extreme views on certain topics. I'm actually a very likable person and make friends quite easily... not to mention I'm a productive member of society. I'm also in full control of my actions, barring extreme circumstances. We all have fantasies, some have dark and twisted fantasies. In-fact, if not for these fantasies, most of the great fictional stories would never have existed.

 

It gets tiresome after a while, people are so deluded at times. No one is perfect and yet, so many try to act like they are. Like I'm such a bad person for deciding to act on something that, I can almost guarantee , everyone has entertained before (getting revenge on someone that wronged them). I didn't break the law with my actions. I didn't even do anything inherently bad... I just forced someone to take responsibility for their actions. Sure, it's a jack-ass maneuver to some people, But I felt it was justified. I'd have much rather my ex do the right thing and not treat me badly. It's not like I enjoy being mean, even when I do feel justified. Trust me, if I was insane, she'd have been tortured and killed by now. I have the training and the intelligence to do so. That wouldn't have been proportional to her actions... I just wanted her to take responsibility for something, since she didn't want to do so in our relationship. Her putting all the blame on my shoulders and walking away unscathed, made me feel like she got off scot-free. That's just unacceptable to me.

 

She broke my trust, I broke her trust. She treated me unfairly, I treated her unfairly. She wasted my time, I wasted some of her time. She put me in a rut and didn't try to help me... I returned the favor. I think she got the picture though, she wanted to be my friend after the way she treated me. Now she doesn't want to be my friend after the way I treated her. At least now, she has a little more understanding as to how her actions made me feel.

[lindya]

It was a joke.

[Trimmer]

Lighten up, Francis.

[Darkzen]

It was a joke.

 

Try harder

 

Trimmer: I'm trying, I exercise for a reason.