Wife said she married me for the man she thought I "could be"...Sorry, it's long..

[Leikela]

Since you have a baby on the way, you need to put rebuilding your marriage into overdrive!! Kids learn from watching their parents. Do you want your son/daughter to grow up and continue your cycle? Also, a baby is NOT a way to reconnect in a marriage, like another poster said. A child should be brought into a marriage that is happy and loving, not as a repair tool.

 

It sounds as though you are both making an effort here and that is great. Go with it! However, don't be surprised if your wife becomes unhappy again and you fall into the same cycle if the baby is lost. You need to address being happy with one another even when you feel like crap yourself inside. It's easy to be happy in a relationship when both people are happy but she needs to learn to still be happy with you even when she's feeling miserable. That's where your problem lies.

 

I truly hope your wife and you can work it out. It will take dedication and committment from BOTH of you. Any half ass attempts and you're not going to make it. This is serious and both of you need to put in 100% for your kids sake. Good luck!

[LankyGuy]

Thanks Leikela. We are both assuming that a baby is going to put a lot of stress on our marriage...one of the reasons we're addressing this now. We definitely understand how kids are influenced by and even emulate their parents in all aspects of life.

 

It's definitely been hard for "us" to be happy when she's been so unhappy over the past several years. The amount of support that she has needed from me has been overwhelming and that's something that I struggle with as it is...

[whichwayisup]

It's definitely been hard for "us" to be happy when she's been so unhappy over the past several years. The amount of support that she has needed from me has been overwhelming and that's something that I struggle with as it is...

 

Would she do one on one counselling for herself? The depression, having a miscarriage, etc...

[LankyGuy]

I believe she would. She's stubborn and has a hard time admitting that she's been depressed, but she has a lot of issues to work out that are bringing baggage into her marriage. She say's "Why me?" all the time when thinking of her RA, infertility, and her recent thyroid cancer. I can understand it, but it's something that she needs to accept and deal with. She's had the RA for 5 years now...it's not gonna go away anytime soon.

 

She is willing to do whatever it takes to get the R back where it was...it's truly her number one priority in life. She's told me that over and over again... Although the though of that that has felt like pressure for me, I probably should be thankful that I have a woman who will go through Hell and high water for us, if necessary.

[smartgirl]

Hello,

 

This is my first post and I have LOTS of issues to discuss on here eventually with the problems in my marriage, myself, etc. I have questions about the term "love", women's views of sex, problems with my own insecurities and feelings I have about the relationship, and others, but for this post I'm going to start here, because the issue in the title has cropped up in our relationship over and over a again for a LONG time.

 

OK, a brief history. I'm 33, male. Married, no kids (yet), wife and I have good jobs, good financial situation , good family relationships, workaholics, etc. I have only had 3 relationships in my life. One from 15-16. One from 16-18, and the one with my wife...from just turning 19 until now. After moving to FL for college as I was turning 19, I met my wife who was turning 18....

 

Anyways, I noticed her in my class, finally got the nerve to walk up to her one day, and we hit it off. Turns out she was PERFECT for me and I was PERFECT for her. We were each attracted to the other's tall, thin attractive forms, both from similar backgrounds (both just moved from Pennsylvania that month), similar beliefs, and our personalities just meshed unbelievably. I still have never met anyone who I thought was cooler, more attractive, and more of a fit for my personality, family goals, etc. Although back then, each of us was planning to "play the field", have fun, etc...we both realized that we each found "the one"...years earlier than each of us had planned....

 

The first 9 months of our relationship was phenomenal....and was probably the basis for the last 13 years' "success". Then infatuation wore off and our relationship become more typical of a LT R with typical ups and downs, job and college stress, etc. We lived together through college...even "broke up" for a year on the 4th year of our relationship....due to me "taking her for granted" etc and her having a 3 month R with a guy that gave her attention (supposedly there was never sex). I too felt that our R had gotten rocky, so I took the year to focus on school, hang out with friends, do my own thing (no sex or relationships), and think about things. Eventually we talked about the problems (my lack of attention to her), we patched it up, got out of college, and got married a few years later...in 2000.

 

Now to the problem...ever since that break-up in '97, I really don't know if our relationship was fixed. We had plenty of good times, and it was stable enough for us to get married, but I don't think my wife has truly been happy with the R or me for more than a month or two at a time. It constantly goes back to how I was focusing on school, work, etc and "taking her for granted" and "not making her feel special"...according to her, nothing has changed since 1997.

 

Many times over the years when we've gotten into fights she has said she was only happy THE FIRST YEAR OF OUR RELATIONSHIP!!!! Life has been extra challenging over the past 5 years since she's had health issues (rheumatoid arthirits), fertility issues (we've spent tens of $1000s so far), and now she recently went through thyroid cancer (excellent prognosis). Our relationship is in shambles and it really has been for a long time...despite counseling over the years.

 

After getting turned down for sex for the thrid time in a row the other night (we have sex once every month or two and it's not good) I initiated a long talk with her about my unhapiness also. She admitted that she married me because she KNEW I could be a better man. She admitted she married me for who she "thought I could become" once I changed. I suspected this for a long time and I also suspect that she married me despite our problems because I am "great on paper", I provide for her, give her security, family loves me, "I'd never cheat", etc. Many times I've told her that I think she just wanted to be married...and she married me b/c she had invested a lot of time into it, etc. It's not just her fault, though.

 

The problem I have always struggled with is that I'm selfish with my time and attention and I DO have problems giving her compliments, making her feel special, etc...I REALLY REALLY struggle with this sort of behavior...feels like a burden on me, I guess...like her happiness is based on words she hears from me. And she feels like I don't love her because of this. Sex has been once a month for the last 5-7 years (our entire marriage) and for the first time, it's now ME that is bringing up the discontent with the marriage....she was glad to hear it since she feels like I don't care about the relationship...or that it's a low priority to me...it may be true...i really don't know anymore. I expressed to her that I worry if I can ever make her happy if I haven't made her happy in 13 years...

 

I feel hurt that a woman married me because she thought she could change me into the "perfect" husband, but OTOH, I need to suck it up and learn how to show attention. Her friends and family think I'm a model husband, and would be shocked if she left me b/c I don't make her feel "special" but I don't blame her if she's not happy. I've asked her if we should have ever gotten married in the first place! As far as she's concerned, I don't show "love" for her other than being home with her every night, providing for her financially, giving her security, etc. She dos not feel loved by me, and at this point I don't know if I feel love for her!! Without closeness, sex, etc, we've become roommates/business partners. My wife has had ZERO sex drive for nearly 10 years (she was even TOO TIRED ON OUR WEDDING NIGHT...WTF!??). I've gotten shot down for sex 100s of times...now I rarely bother asking...so now I don't feel close and barely want to hug, kiss, touch her. What a mess!

 

I know I will have a lifetime of challenges dealing with my selfishness, so most of this is probably my fault, and I'm fortunate that such a great selfless woman has given me second chances to change over and over again, but I don't know where to go from here....What are the chances that I can change if she's been unhappy with me for the past 13 years? It sounds crazy but I don't know if I'm in love with her anymore!!! What does love even feel like??...it's not what we had as 18/19 year-olds...that was infatuation...that's easy to get...love...that's another thing entirely.

 

Can any of you offer advice? Divorce has come up several times over the past few years and again the other night. Neither of us wants that but are we kidding ourselves in this relationship? Will it ever be like it was back in 1993? Will it ever even be normal after more than a decade like this?

 

Thanks so much...

 

LG - Some of the things you have said remind me of my situation. I have been with my H for over 30 years and he has great difficulty being demonstrative, romantic or verbally appreciative. He doesn't need it so he doesn't see why I do. He has made efforts hit or miss over the years and has been trying more over the last year and half.

 

Like you, he feels somewhat burdened by it. This is mostly a performance issue, because he feels that whatever he does won't measure up. And like many people, he resents someone "expecting" something from him.

 

But that is the way LTRs work. You give you get - you get you give. You have to understand what is emotionally important to the other person and recognize that has to be nourished. A woman who does not feel appreciated and cared for has trouble feeling giving in the sexual area. So how to define appreciation and caring? Sometimes it is simpler than you think.

 

I will recommend a short book that is a simple read but very useful - "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom." The goal of the book is to help each partner understand why certain things are important to the other, the potential consequences of not providing those things and concrete suggestions of what you can do. I was never in to self help books, but this one opened my eyes to a lot of things. There are things you can do that will make your wife feel special and I bet you wouldn't even find them much of a stretch. But if you go down the road of resenting her for wanting things from you, prepare to be unhappy and get even less sex.

 

So you aren't getting what you need from her at the moment. Someone has to start the ball rolling - why not you. Get the book, read it together, talk about it. What have you got to lose?

[LankyGuy]

Hey Smartgirl. Thanks for your account. Yep, that sounds like our situation exactly. I guess in the beginning I was always giving her compliments and I know I was always buying her roses (well, one at a time since I was broke), mushy cards, etc. Then when the initial euphoria wore off and real life started to kick in, I guess I got lazy. Now, she's so hungry for attention that it's really come to a head.

 

I know, like someone mentioned earlier...we're in a Mexican standoff. I told her before her trip that I'm going to take the reins now and start changing things. It's about time I did my part.

 

You know, I think we actually have that book! We bought it years ago and I don't know if I ever read it. I also bought a few books tonight...some that were mentioned on LS a few times. I got His Needs, Her Needs; Hot Monogamy; How to Please a Woman in and Out of Bed; and Dr Laura's Book about Husband's Feeding and Care Guide...the wife can read this one...I peaked through it and it has some good points.

 

We'll see if some of these are helpful...I think anything that gets me thinking of her more is going to do wonders to get us out of these doldrums.

[MrsHellnoFire]

You may not think your marriage is broken but it is. I have seen all too often how this scenario plays out and it is not pretty. I hope I am wrong for your sake and your child's sake but this situation usually ends in divorce. I also think that bringing a baby into an already troubled marriage is a bad idea. If you think sex is an issue now wait until the baby is around and your wife complains that she has two kids. I just don't have a good feeling about this.

 

 

Well this situation seems a lot more dire than in your other post lanky.

 

I really hope you both can work it out but if the future of this marriage is uncertain, why continue the fertility treatments? When women get into that baby mode, nothing seems to be able to yank them out of it. So just rely on your brain to determine what to do here before going any further because she cannot think beyond her biological issues right now.

[LankyGuy]

First of all, I think Woggle has a lot of his own issues to deal with and has a very negative outlook on marriage and women in general...anyways.

 

It's hard to explain...we've been doing fertility treatments for years...you just start to lose focus on the relationship with all this stuff going on, and when your obsessed and depressed about not having a baby, stopping the process just doesn't seem like an option. I don't know how should would have responded if I suggested that...

 

I personally didn't realize how bad it was until recently...I really felt a disconnect between us when it was made obvious to me that sleep is much more important to her than sex with me. I had a long talk with her and told her that I'm not happy about our relationship and am finally going to be a man and start doing my share. She was in tears when I said this, b/c in the past I've only gone through the motions...I truly feel depressed that I've let it go so long.

 

If we both want to make it work and are both willing to work hard to make things better, I think it will recover. I'm not really an emotional person, but the feelings that have been going through my mind in the past few days just blow me away. They're just coming and going in all different directions. I even cried today...and I rarely cry.

 

I let such a great relationship with such a great woman get so damn ****ty. She makes me feel like her world revolves around me, and I just go on with my work and my projects doing my own thing. That really sucks...I'm lucky that she hasn't found another man that does show her attention...

[whichwayisup]

That was a very heartfelt post and I hope you let your wife know exactly what you said here. Maybe write her a letter...

 

Consider this now a wake up call. And now that you know what is going on, you're going to appreciate her more, and make her KNOW that she is the centre of your Universe, and she revolves around you!

[LankyGuy]

Wow, your post made me start crying again...I'm not used to this at all.

 

That's a great idea. I'll write a letter and put it out with her birthday card and flowers tomorrow.

 

Thanks again, everyone. I've learned a lot in the past two days from this and previous threads.

[norajane]

I got aloof in my previous relationship too, once the infatuation wore off...I totally disconnected emotionally and she just took it until the relationship died and she found someone else to fill the void (which I didn't even care at the time).

 

This could end up being a pattern in every LT relationship I enter...I don't want to throw this one away to find out that it's me screwing up. I wasn't raised with my Dad and never even met him from ages 2-13...since then I talk to him once or twice a year. But I see his crappy aloof, non-interested, non in-involved ways in myself, regardless. His Dad did it to his kids and wife, and now I'm continuing the cycle.

 

Maybe some individual therapy could help you break that cycle. And help you deal with the fallout of the fertility issues.

[whichwayisup]

Wow, your post made me start crying again...I'm not used to this at all.

 

That's a great idea. I'll write a letter and put it out with her birthday card and flowers tomorrow.

 

Thanks again, everyone. I've learned a lot in the past two days from this and previous threads.

 

Honestly, I mean this in a good way, I'm glad my post brought tears to your eyes because it means YOU ARE ALIVE and FEELING again. All that love, affection and care for your wife IS there, and surfacing! Lanky, that's an amazing thing! Emotions are hard at times, but this emotion you're feeling is a positive thing, not a negative thing.

 

You're welcome and I can't wait to hear about her reaction when she comes home. Oh and don't hide your emotions from her. If you cry infront of her, it's okay!

[LankyGuy]

Yes, I also agree it's a good thing. It affirms that I still love her and that it's worth the work it's gonna take. Yes, yearns to see me show emotions...especially crying...

 

I'll post back and let you know how it goes. She'll get the letter while I'm at work, but I imagine she'll call me as soon as she gets it...

 

Norajane, I'm definitely up for talking to a therapist...we discussed that...we may start within a week...and we may go seperately for some sessions.

[Leikela]

Hi LG,

 

How did it go with your wife on Monday?

[LankyGuy]

Hi Leikela,

 

It's been an interesting week. My wife got home and found the flowers, a special birthday card that I picked our 9 months ago (she loved it), a small treat that she likes, and the letter explaining my wakeup call and my intentions to get our R back on track. She also saw the books I bought. She called me, extremely happy and said she cried when she read it...she was in disbelief about all of this...and still is today.

 

I gave her a couple of birthday gifts (including some naughty stuff from Frederick's) and we had a long talk. We had several long talks this week about my lack of attention and our lost connection, lack of sex, etc. We've had talks every night and some have been hard...we've both denied some feelings over the years and now it's time to discuss everything.

 

We had a conversation about sex one night. At one point she admitted that she thinks sex is "kinda bad" (great ), and I realized that she really can't stand to think about her past...years ago in high school...not even her first kiss...like I'd be jealous from when she was 14 or whatever! A couple of times she's said "I hope this all just isn't about sex!" ...this tells me she doesn't get some of this. Maybe she's actually happy with sex every 1-2 months, but I told her that everything I read said that sex is a very important part of a marriage and lack of it usually means something is very wrong.

 

Anyways, we also talked about things that we need to do that will make us closer (outside of sex) and I've been really trying to go the extra mile...and she notices it and likes it...so that's good...hopefully I can keep it up for the long haul.

 

The crappy thing is that we have not felt close, IMO. There's been no passionate kissing and no sex...I'm gently nudging it and she's not taking the bait. She's been more interested in going to bed and seeing the season premier of "The Office"....our kissing and holding has just been very non-intimate so far.

 

So...we had another talk when she didn't want to "neck" tonight...I told her I think she's lost her attraction to me. Eventually she admitted that she never thought about that and she thinks maybe she has... She also basically said that she has no sex drive whatsoever...I knew that. This kinda upset me. I really can't handle being married to someone who is asexual, sexually repressed, whatever...

 

The crazy thing is that she wants to hug and kiss...even french kiss, she says (although not this week)...and she has said that over the years...but it doesn't seem like she wants more than that. Personally, I need to be horny to want to french kiss, and if I'm not, then I GET horny once I start french kissing. But over the years she has often shot me down when I started going the next step after french kissing...kinda weird...so why would I wanna do that when it just results in blue balls in the end??? She doesn't have a clue about this stuff sometimes!

 

So, I told her I'm not going to push her. If she needs time to become attracted to me, then I'll give her time. It hurts me and she could tell I was upset...something that typically never happens. But honestly, I don't know if she'll get it back or not after so many years of this...maybe we've just held on through an addiction to each other b/c we fulfill each others basic needs so well...but certainly not our emotional needs. I feel like we're and old married, miserable couple...at ages 32/33 that sucks!

 

It's just kinda crazy...she often tells me I'm "hot" but I don't know if she really feels it...she doesn't show it physically. Man, this is tough...

 

We're going away for a bit this weekend to go the beach and should have some time for ourselves...maybe we'll get a chance to try to get closer...I guess we'll see.

 

Thanks for listening....Lanky

[norajane]

If she has 'no sex drive whatsoever' that's not really normal. Even if she had lost all attraction to you, she should still feel a sexual urge of some kind. Does she ever masturbate?

 

Maybe those fertility drugs and the whole experience just killed it for her. Maybe she has depression and that's killing her sex drive. It probably wouldn't hurt for her to talk to a doctor and therapist. It can't hurt, and it might help.

[LankyGuy]

Her sex drive has been this way for about 5-10 years, I'd guess. No, she doesn't masturbate...I know she thinks it's bad and she has no drive to do it regardless. One time back in '97 she admitted that she masturbated when she missed me during the period that we broke up...I was shocked that she even did it let alone admit it. Honestly, I think I taught her how to do it during sex when we were younger...she seemed to have NO technique of her own down.

 

I'm 99% sure she does not masturbate...sex never seems to enter her mind...it's like she has an aversion to it...although when we actually do it, after she has 1/2 dozen orgasms she'll admit that she does actually like it...kinda strange.

 

I asked her, and she said that even if her huge celebrity crushes were in the bed with her tonight, she wouldn't want sex. Sorry, but if Carmen Electra were in my bed, I'd be ready to go....

 

To be fair, she is still getting her synthetic thyroid hormone dosages optimized right now....she is feeling extra tired and that could explain how she's feeling sexually at the moment...OTOH, she's never really ever horny. I just figured that that's how women are once they're married or adults or whatever....it's not something that women talk about with men.

 

I also would like her to talk to a doctor...maybe get testosterone levels checked or something...

[norajane]

OTOH, she's never really ever horny. I just figured that that's how women are once they're married or adults or whatever....it's not something that women talk about with men.

 

No, women don't stop being horny after they get married and are adults. You've never heard that women hit their sexual peak in their late 30's??? We get more horny then!

 

But if she thinks masturbation is bad, well, it sounds like she has some hang-ups about sex in general.

[Ladyjane14]

she is still getting her synthetic thyroid hormone dosages optimized right now....

 

Changes to her thyroid medication might be in order as well. JamesM has some experience with that. You might search his posts.

[IpAncA]

But if she thinks masturbation is bad, well, it sounds like she has some hang-ups about sex in general.

 

Sounds like it to me.

[Leikela]

LG,

 

Thanks for responding and for the update. I'm glad that your wife loved her birthday card and gifts. That was sweet of you!

 

Here's a possible scenario that may not have crossed your mind. Both of you have been together since you were late teenagers. Ever thought maybe you missed out on your roaring 20's? I know people that have been married since a young age feel as though they missed out on life a bit. Maybe that's the problem here?

 

I really hope the both of you can work things out though. It definitely seems as if the both of you are trying!!

[LankyGuy]

Sure, thanks for your interest and help! Well, I guess w could have missed out on some things in our 20s...my wife had said many times over the years that she wishes that we had met later...not for her sake, but for mine...she was worried since I didn't have time to be wild. It was a thought to me too, but I didn't want to risk losing her just to sew my oats. I didn't want her to be the one that "got away"...hard to say what would have happened, though.

 

It's hard to say what the cause is, but we've definitely kinda grown up together and have surely molded in some bad habits along the way. If we had met later, we would have been more mature and had more perspective...instead we've grown up together with a certain level of disfunctionality, I'm sure.

 

We talked some more this weekend about things and she did confirm that she thinks masturbation is bad and does NOT feel comfortable talking about...so it's hard for me to get a gauge on her.

 

We spent the weekend away and finally got close Saturday night and ended up having a good time on the beach last night...first time for sex on the beach for both of us...so that was cool :-) The experience felt like something from our younger days...a little bad and a little dangerous :-)_