once believed but not anymore.....never believed but do now

[EnigmasMuse]

If you once believed and had faith in God and considered yourself a christain, but lost that faith and no longer believe, what was it that brought about that change?

 

 

For those who never really believed in God before, but started to believe at some point in your life, what was it that took place that turned your life around and got you believe?

[Ocean-Blue]

For those who never really believed in God before, but started to believe at some point in your life, what was it that took place that turned your life around and got you believe?

 

I was talking to a family member once about war, violence and death. Up to that point I didn't understand why people clung to the notion of God so passionately. I always thought it was something people did because they didn't know any better...

 

As I was talking to this cousin...I began to realize something. NOTHING in life is permanent. Everything (every breath, every kiss, every meal, every step, every tear) IS MOMENTARY. That is, you never have a moment...it's always passing you by as it happens (if that makes any sense at all). That got me depressed. What the hell is the point of life then?

 

Then I thought about death. We are living to die. We accumulate wealth and friends and memories...for what? What the hell is the point? We are distracting ourselves from the reality of death.

 

Then suddenly it hit me. People believe in a superior power because that is all they have. God is my hope drug. Faith in this superior power gives me a sense of "this is going somewhere". I know that my life or my actions are not futile - that it means something...

 

It's something I cling to because the elusive and fleeting nature of all that is my life depresses me. So I'd rather believe in God. Believe that there's a point to all of this.

 

I hope this makes sense. It's early morning and I haven't slept...so yeah...

[disgracian]

You raise a good point about the merits of accumulating wealth, or at least material wealth. In the grand scheme of things it isn't worth all that much. Money is an illusion that only works because everybody believes in it.

 

Sort of like religion in that regard.

 

Life is impermanence, life is change. That much is true. Still, we have never known any moment before our birth, and we will not know of anything after our death. In that sense, we are eternal beings. What comes before or after time? We know that is a meaningless question. However, what comes before or after our time. Equally meaningless.

 

The fact that we will die makes it only more imperative that we live both for and in the present, the now. For each of us, our time will come, of that we can be certain. And in certainty there is peace. Make peace with your mortality, and you will fully acknowledge what you have right here and now. You won't need to resort to any kind of "hope drug" (very interesting that you described it thus: a harmful, mind-altertering addiction) to get you through the night.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Ocean-Blue]

You raise a good point about the merits of accumulating wealth, or at least material wealth. In the grand scheme of things it isn't worth all that much. Money is an illusion that only works because everybody believes in it.

 

Sort of like religion in that regard.

 

Life is impermanence, life is change. That much is true. Still, we have never known any moment before our birth, and we will not know of anything after our death. In that sense, we are eternal beings. What comes before or after time? We know that is a meaningless question. However, what comes before or after our time. Equally meaningless.

 

The fact that we will die makes it only more imperative that we live both for and in the present, the now. For each of us, our time will come, of that we can be certain. And in certainty there is peace. Make peace with your mortality, and you will fully acknowledge what you have right here and now. You won't need to resort to any kind of "hope drug" (very interesting that you described it thus: a harmful, mind-altertering addiction) to get you through the night.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Not all drugs are addictive. Some alleviate. Some cure.

[sweety81]

what was it that took place that turned your life around and got you believe?

 

I did something terrible this year and after i was so down i felt that there was no point in being here anymore! but i went to church and during the sunday service i felt a warm feeling and it felt like i had been touched inside. the priest spoke to me and i told him my problem and he repented my sin and blessed me.

 

I now go to church every week it brightens my soul and gives me strength to go on. I am to be baptised next year.

[riobikini]

re:

 

EM: " If you once believed and had faith in God and considered yourself a Christan, but lost that faith and no longer believe, what was it that brought about that change? "

 

 

 

I always wanted to hear Moai's answer to that question because, somewhere, in the hundreds and hundreds of his threads and posts, somehow, I got the idea he was once a devout believer.

 

Something always triggers the turnabout.

 

For me, it wasn't that I didn't believe in the possibility of a Divine Being- it was that I didn't (couldn't) believe all that I was being taught about the one I was being introduced to.

 

It bothered me a great deal that -when the hard questions were posed- the truest believer I had access to couldn't answer, wouldn't answer, or lacked the ability, the vocabulary, or the understanding, himself- to answer.

 

So they avoided my "silly" questions, or made me feel ridiculous for even asking.

 

And that's why I rejected them and their ways of carrying out their beliefs-not the idea that there did, indeed, exist a Supernatural Divine Being of some kind.

 

So I went looking to find the answers for myself, outside my circle of influence, instead of just "accepting".

 

And I'm glad I did.

 

-Rio

[riobikini]

re:

 

Disgracian: " You raise a good point about the merits of accumulating wealth, or at least material wealth. In the grand scheme of things it isn't worth all that much. Money is an illusion that only works because everybody believes in it.

 

Sort of like religion in that regard."

 

Then -in comparison, likewise- if money is an illusion, there is a very grand God somewhere.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[Moai]

I have answered this question before, but I'll reiterate here for those who may have missed it.

 

I had a born-again experience when I was 17. It was undoubtedly an intense experience, but I would not say at any point I was particuary devout. My father was a Baptist minister, too.

 

I went to a Jesuit college for two years, and it was there that I became familiar with Doctrine and the history of Christianity. I was a believer at this time but not hardocre by any means, and I hadn't actually read the entire Bible.

 

I only knew the very basic aspects of science at this point in my life. I took geology to satisfy my science requirement, and only had biology in high school.

 

In my 20s I accepted evolution, but I did so as someone who agreed with intelligent design. It just seemed like common sense (it was and is actually fallacious, but I didn't know that then). The term ID had not yet been coined, but like many I didn't see evolution and god as being mutually exclusive.

 

Then I read about a case in Kansas involving Creationism in school. I thought, "Wow, I thought that was solved. But if they are still arguing about it, maybe there is something to this Creationism stuff." And I looked it up.

 

I read about the details of the case, and began to read Creationist books and check out their websites, as well as biology books and scientific websites. What I found out shocked me.

 

The Creationist sites not only misrepresented facts regarding biology/geology, they actually misquoted authors I had read! The question "Why does god need people to lie for him?" leapt to mind. I began to study evolutionary theory in earnest (still do) and joined a few Yahoo! groups on the subject. I joined the debate, and in so doing familiarized myself with common logical fallacies, and read the Bible. I have since done so three or four times, and refer to it often over the course of debates and such.

 

And that sealed it. I realized that I was/am an atheist, and that everything I had been told was evidence for god atually wasn't. As I studied religion more, I began to see it as a horrific thing that causes more suffering and hatred than anything else in existence.

 

The Christians who posted to those groups were some of the most hate-filled, ignorant, and racist individuals I have ever encountered. I know that they got these ideas form the Bible, as they quoted chapter and verse ad nauseum.

 

I would also add that I was something of a racist during my "believer" period. I wasn't a skinhead or anything, but because of listening to members of my family (on my mom's side) I considered members of other races as inferior at least, or outright disgusting at worst. The more I learned about biology, I found that race is a myth. There is really no such thing, and we are all part of the human family.

 

I, at least, have become more loving and accepting of others BECAUSE I abandoned superstitious god-belief. Most of my friends are athiests also, and there is not a racist amongst them. The believers I do know are of the liberal, moderate kind, and most of the time you'd never know they had a belief in god at all.

 

The believers I hppen to bump into IRL don't give a good accounting of their religion in this regard--I'll just leave it at that.

[PandorasBox]

The Christians who posted to those groups were some of the most hate-filled, ignorant, and racist individuals I have ever encountered. I know that they got these ideas form the Bible, as they quoted chapter and verse ad nauseum.

 

 

I'm sure you're referring to those particular Christains in that group, but I'm also sure you're aware that not ALL Christains are like the way you described above.

 

Also, I'm not atheist and I have a friend who is, and I love her to pieces and we get along great. We have talked about religon before and I see her point on why she feels the way she does and I think she sees mine on why I feel the way I do, and we usually just leave it at that.

[Moai]

The Christians who posted to those groups were some of the most hate-filled, ignorant, and racist individuals I have ever encountered. I know that they got these ideas form the Bible, as they quoted chapter and verse ad nauseum.

 

 

I'm sure you're referring to those particular Christains in that group, but I'm also sure you're aware that not ALL Christains are like the way you described above.

 

I know that, but it belies the idea that being a Christian makes one loving, no? The fact that the essence of the religion is divisive leads to this behavior (saved vs. unsaved).

 

Also, I'm not atheist and I have a friend who is, and I love her to pieces and we get along great. We have talked about religon before and I see her point on why she feels the way she does and I think she sees mine on why I feel the way I do, and we usually just leave it at that.

 

As it is with most things. I argue vehemently on boards like this, and when asked I am honest, but I don't stand out in front of chruches and hardcore believers or anything. I have had friends ask me questions about my lak of belief and most of them have since become athiests, while others even more moderate in their belief.

[disgracian]

Not all drugs are addictive. Some alleviate. Some cure.

False hope is most definitely addictive. You're better off weaning yourself off this and putting stock in something that is real. If you're still taking the drug, you're not cured.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Ocean-Blue]

False hope is most definitely addictive. You're better off weaning yourself off this and putting stock in something that is real. If you're still taking the drug, you're not cured.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

OK, you got me there. Perhaps "drug" wasn't the most appropriate choice.

 

I don't see my faith in a superior force as being a kind of "false hope". For that to be true, you'd have to KNOW definitively that a superior does in fact NOT exist, no?

 

Perhaps there is a SF, perhaps not. I have HOPE that there is (b/c I don't know either way).

[disgracian]

My use of the term "false hope" has nothing to do with whether god exists or not. It was in reference to the way you described your belief as nothing more than a comfort device rather than the result of actually believing in a higher power because evidence or reason points to such a conclusion. Even the way you say "So I'd rather believe in God" simply because you don't like the alternative. That, to me, isn't a sincere belief at all.

 

So, it seems to me that deep down you acknowledge that your belief in god is not real, and therefore a false hope predicated solely on the notion that it offers you some reassurance.

 

Hence my advice is to make peace with what you truly do believe to be real rather than resorting to fairytales.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Ohio_isforLovers]

For those who never really believed in God before, but started to believe at some point in your life, what was it that took place that turned your life around and got you believe?

 

 

Well with me it has to be seeing the way people change. My family is a very Christian family they have like a libary of books, Cds, and other things. Well 4 years ago my parents were totally two diffrent people. But as i see them now they changed for the better. Like i see that there happy all the time even when things are down they still have a postive outlook on life. Knowing that if anything happens to them they know that there going to heaven. I personally changed myself as well. Im not gonna say im like full blown christian or anything but i do belive that there is a god. For example praying i always saw that as something wierd. Like what the hell is that gonna do! Well i was wrong everyday i pray now every morning and every night cause it brings comfort for me and makes me happy. Like i pray for my family to be safe and for my friends and for me to have a good day. Well yeah thats basically what i can think of right now. Bout to go to IHOP

[MtMan]

Logic.

 

I was raised Catholic. I did a young adult thing after college (and a little during college I guess) which was a catholic singles group for young adults. I blew an opportunity to hook up with and marry a great gal due to my inexperience I think.

 

Anyways, it is eventually not going every week to church, so the brainwashing wears off. And you are left with your logic. There are some things I just don't plain agree with.

 

However, it wasn't long before I realized it was unwise to throw the baby out with the bath water (the bath water being the church, the baby being jesus.) But it takes a lot of self discipline to sort through the bible on your own and use a highlighter to highlight the stuff you agree with.

 

When I took some personal growth seminars, they did not directly refute the existence of God, but the seminars did weed whack my religious beliefs indirectly. I struggled with that. But I have come to a good place where I believe that it is true that we have a more powerful and happy life if we realize the power of our own Word (while in a religion we are brain washed indirectly to believe that only God's word has power and counts,) what the ultimate answer is that our Word acts in partnership with God's Word, so that as we are a piece of God, so our Word is a piece of God's Word. We all have the divine flame within. It isn't just Jesus that had the devine flame . (Although it may be argued he was the best at having the flame or that his flame was brighter than the rest of us.)

 

I am not sure where this leaves me. I have gone to the Religious Science Church a half a dozen times. I should go more as I probably am more closely aligned in terms of an existing organized religion now with a New Thought church such as Religious Science. (If I am not mistaken, they are OK with all religions, and believe that all religions address the same infinite power (or God.))

 

But I will admit too, in defense of old fashioned religion, that if you go it alone you may end up with nothing. Which is not a good thing as then you have nothing to anchor to when the storms of life approach.

[Ocean-Blue]

My use of the term "false hope" has nothing to do with whether god exists or not. It was in reference to the way you described your belief as nothing more than a comfort device rather than the result of actually believing in a higher power because evidence or reason points to such a conclusion. Even the way you say "So I'd rather believe in God" simply because you don't like the alternative. That, to me, isn't a sincere belief at all.

 

So, it seems to me that deep down you acknowledge that your belief in god is not real, and therefore a false hope predicated solely on the notion that it offers you some reassurance.

 

Hence my advice is to make peace with what you truly do believe to be real rather than resorting to fairytales.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Things that have happened to me in my life lead to be believe God exists. One cannot state everything in a single post...I was merely referring to bits and pieces... I have every reason to believe in a God. But I'm also aware that I'm young...that I have a long way to go in terms of spiritual growth.

 

Thanks for your insightful posts btw!

[disgracian]

But it takes a lot of self discipline to sort through the bible on your own and use a highlighter to highlight the stuff you agree with.

What about the stuff you don't agree with?

 

Cheers,

D.

[MtMan]

What about the stuff you don't agree with?

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Don't highlight it. Or perhaps you are right - it may be less highlighting to highlight the stuff you don't agree with. In which case just a black marker might do.

[PollyIvy]

I go to church because I find it reassuring and makes me focus on peace, equilibrium, trying to treat others well. My brothers and i were bought up going to church - my mom is very Christian and was very social in the church - but our family never really analyzed it, it was just something we did.

All these years later I try not to question anything, because I have doubts, and I worry that if I examine them, I might not feel so comfortable at church...

For me belief is a private thing, and as I feel ambivalent, I try not to get intense about it. I'm not active in the church community, I just attend.

[lindya]

I go to church because I find it reassuring and makes me focus on peace, equilibrium, trying to treat others well.

 

If everyone used religion purely for that purpose, we'd all be a lot better off. Psychologically, being in a peaceful setting such as a church can be very good for people. It's when people start intellectualising for/against that experience with reference to controversial or unprovable belief systems that the problems kick in. I don't think you have to take the bible literally in order to get some benefit out of certain aspects of religion....ie the peaceful aspects you're talking about.

[PollyIvy]

There are people at my church who won't be friends with people who are not involved in our church or any church similar...

Religion can be such a positive thing and help so many people. Or it can divide people. People get so worked up. I want to respect everyone's beliefs, but sometimes it is hard when a person shoves his/her faith /non-faith right in your face.

It's just a shame that more people can't use religion personally, to hlep them, or make them better people without having to be so literal or feeling the need to impose their beliefs on others.

[disgracian]

I've seen that before, splits in a church and the members on either side are strongly discouraged from associating with the other side.

 

I remember when I was six, my parents wouldn't let me play with the children next door because the parents are fighting. I find this a highly apt comparison, because so much of religion is about treating adults as though they were children: incapable of making decisions for themselves.

 

Cheers,

D.