frd150 Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Hey Man, Concider it a lesson learned and move on. If you maintain your womenizing ways Im sure youll get over rather quickly. And dude flowers will get you nowhere, trust me. It will only serve to solitify her feelings and yes you will look like a stalker. Go back to what your parents taught you and meet yourself a nice girl. Always treat women with respect because if you dont you will end up in the same boat again. I know this, ive seen it.
KittenMoon Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 I don't want this to be a learning experience and I don't want her with anyone else. You have to be selfish in these things because if I don't think of my own well-being, then who will? The girl? Come on. She's basking in the glory of a conquered and dominated heart. Just one more notch in her belt. You want some straight up advice- what you said above is TWISTED. It's the exact opposite of what love should be. The perfect person is not like "the perfect car" or "the perfect sofa". You don't decide to settle down, then look for someone who fits your bill like you do when you decide to buy a car, then go shopping for it. You're acting like this girl is a commodity. You're acting like this is a game, and even worse, a game of perfect logic. You don't know you can make her happy- heck, you've failed horribly so far at that. You have no CLUE what a relationship with her would bring- relationships are hard in ways you can't even comprehend. They go against all logic more often than not. And saying how you think this girl is "basking" in her "conquest" shows you have far less respect for her than you should, and little to no comprehension of love outside of a "kill or be killed" philosophy. I didn't feel an ounce of pity for you to begin with, but now I'm beginning to, simply because you are so far out of you element you can't see it. I offer only this as concrete advice: One, stop womanizing, if only for a period of time to do the following. Two, find some happy long-term couples and get to know them. Or even some not so happy couples. IMO, you need to see what a real relationship is before you try to have one.
frd150 Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Read jmargel's post again VERY carefully. That's about as good as advice is going to get in your situation. It's up to this girl to decide if she wants to be with you, it isn't about playing games and tricking her into it. Tell her how you feel and let her decide. Honestly, I second this. Games never work. The more you push the more she will run from you. "Crazy stalker guy" is what youll be known as to everyone around her regardless of your intentions. You dont want that. Sorry man but you opened up a can of worms here. Im sure your a great person but all we have to go off of is your original post. People here tend to give it to you straight. Find yourself someone that you honestly want to be with, someone that you do not see as a conquest. Do you have to meet women in clubs? I have just never had any longterm luck in club situations. I wish you luck
mylovegrowsdeeper Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Or do you want to make you happy? You seem like you haven't learned anything at all from this experience because still you sit here- talking about how you grappled for her, your intention to find out where she works etc etc etc but don't kid yourself, you're not doing any of it to make her happy. You're doing it to make yourself happy, you had something good and you were an ass and lost it. Forget what movies tell you- in the real world when we act like that we can't play a song and sing outside their window and magically everything is okay. No, when you mess up here you risk it being eternal. You are probably tormenting her more than you're doing her any good. I say this because I've been where that girls been, with someone who didn't appreciate her so she said adios amigos, and then he tried everything in his damn power to "win" me back, manipulating me and my friends until no end.I told him I was onto him and his BS back in April and ended all contact PERIOD, this was several months after we had broken up in OCTOBER.You know what? Just this last weekend he called me, I didn't realize it was him at first but when I said hello he hung up. Now, I don't care about his crap anymore- but at the time it was very tormenting and hurtful and stressful on me. The best thing you can do if you want to make this "angel" happy, is think of how she must feel for once and quit concentrating so hard on what YOU'RE going to do to ease YOUR pain.
mylovegrowsdeeper Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 I tell you all of this because while you won't get this one back, if you grow up a little bit, the next time you meet an amazing woman you might actually be able to have a happy, healthy relationship with her that wasn't created through means of manipulation and out of abundant selfishness. The only way you're going to come out ahead in this situation is to learn from your mistakes, but if the girl is all that great she'll move on and won't go back to someone who treats her like she's furniture and puts her feelings in second regard to his.
underpants Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Dude, It does not sound like you love her or really even like her all that much. I am sure you feel a bruised ego because she is no longer doting on you. She sees you for what you are. The culmination of all your disrespectful treatment that you have displayed. She opted for a better person for her (who is not you) and now you feel the loss. Typical. I don't think you want her back so much as you want to restore the status quo of power. If you really want to make the most of your situation you will look within yourself and use this pain to make some core changes. This could led to a healthy relationship with someone in the future. Probably not with her though.
Author mikeraw Posted September 25, 2007 Author Posted September 25, 2007 I came here because the name of the top level forum was "Second Chances". I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. However, you all know that no amount of logic and common sense can change my mind. I have to crash and burn on this one. Or at least try to establish friendly relations with her. Coming to this forum was educational and interesting. It was also helpful. I might hang around after all this passes. If there is a miracle I'll let you know, if at least just to brag about it. Thanks, Pseudonym N. Duh
mylovegrowsdeeper Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 If there is no changing your mind it is only because your selfish.I'm no psychic, but I see a long future of lonliness that awaits you because you would rather be childish and stupid than humble and wise.
KittenMoon Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 I came here because the name of the top level forum was "Second Chances". I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. However, you all know that no amount of logic and common sense can change my mind. I have to crash and burn on this one. Or at least try to establish friendly relations with her. Coming to this forum was educational and interesting. It was also helpful. I might hang around after all this passes. If there is a miracle I'll let you know, if at least just to brag about it. Oh, well, in this case, try clenching your fists and stamping your feet in front of her while yelling "I want, I want, I want!!!" If that doesn't work, hold your breath until you turn blue.
Trialbyfire Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 I came here because the name of the top level forum was "Second Chances". I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. However, you all know that no amount of logic and common sense can change my mind. I have to crash and burn on this one. Or at least try to establish friendly relations with her. Coming to this forum was educational and interesting. It was also helpful. I might hang around after all this passes. If there is a miracle I'll let you know, if at least just to brag about it. Thanks, Pseudonym N. Duh You might get her back, you might not. I do think it won't be good for her if she gets back with you. All you see is "you" and what you want and need. She's nothing but a trophy for you to acquire. I feel for this girl.
Author mikeraw Posted September 26, 2007 Author Posted September 26, 2007 My father passed away a month ago and I thank you for the slack you cut me there, Greenfrog. She never crossed my mind. And no, I'm not trying to fill any void left in my heart with an ex flame. This is completely spontaneous, out of the blue, that I started thinking of her again. Throughout this thread I've sounded like a conceited jerk because I went into a little detail on my relationship with women lately and my generous self-description. Both things were done to: 1. Convey the point that I'm not obsessed with this girl because she's the only or the best I could do. 2. To let you know that you're not dealing with an ugly, loser, old loser, rather with someone in his prime. Maybe that's why I never got any advice from anyone on how to get her back, rather support for her and attempts to persuade me to let her go. I looked at some posts of people that replied to me and most of their original posts deal with similar situations. Why the hypocrisy? Maybe you're speaking from experience, but I'm sure that at least one person here has been able to win back the love of an ex. I hope I get some feedback as I will be out of the state all day.
jmargel Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 You may not be a 'loser' but you have been acting like one for a very long time. That is what this chick that you are 'in love with' is probably thinking right now. It's because of your attitude. It's your attitude of either 'screw them, or get screwed by them'. You seem to have an attitude that women just want the bad boy types and the nice guy finishes last. There are women that think that and go for that, however there are more women that actually like a decent guy. You screwing around on this chick DOES matter, and if you don't think she hasn't felt that something else was going on then you are very wrong. It's an instinct that alot of people can pick up on. Not only did you disrespect her during your entire relationship with her you also jeopardized her health by possibly passing STDs to her. Doesn't matter if you used protection or not. You have to be selfish in these things because if I don't think of my own well-being, then who will? The girl? Come on. She's basking in the glory of a conquered and dominated heart. Just one more notch in her belt. You have alot of maturing to do. This is all a game to you and as long as you have this attitude you will not 'win' her back. You played the game and it's finally have won a match on you. You are the one that is so used to basking in the glory of another notch in your belt. Once you learn that relationships are not games to win, the sooner you will be happier in life. Relationships and life is not a competition. She made me happy and I'm sure that I could make her happy. I only have good memories of that relationship, everything that I did on the side didn't have anything to do with us because she didn't find out. It sounds cold, but it's the truth. The reasons that she distanced herself completely have to deal mostly because I didn't do her every bidding, didn't cuddle all the time with her after sex. You are wrong about everything here, except that maybe she might have made you somewhat happy. You have good memories because that's what you made it, all about you. The things you did on the side, DID affect her and the relationship. She didn't leave because you didn't cuddle after sex, she left because there was an emotional void in the relationship with you. It was because you were banging other chicks, and your actions towards her popped up red flags. What you want to do is hide those red flags, not learn and mature so that you won't do those things to begin with. No matter what, I'm going to pursue her. Why is it that of all the girls I've seen lately, this is the only one that I feel anything for? I know I have to learn a lesson, but not with her, not like this. Nothing is impossible and I merely ask for help to get her back. That's right, if you don't win her over, just scare the **** out of her and stalk her. I'm sure if you pursue her enough she might give you the time of day just because she's scared on what your next move might be. You have a HUGE lesson to learn and you better learn it quick before things get worse. Right now it is impossible for you to get her back because the root of the problem lies with YOU. YOU are not willing to work on your own problems first. It's a chain that you have to follow. The beginning of this chain starts with you, not her. I've always believed that women are smarter than men. I'm sure that a girl in this position could eventually prevail. May I please receive some advice on how to do this, no matter how Machiavellian it is? With your player attitude things won't change. Those first two sentences tell me alot. You compliment women only to make it fit your cause. 'Women are smarter than men, so golly gee, she must be smart enough to want me back'. Do you honestly believe this? Is your ego that huge? There are many men out there that are smarter, better looking and treat a woman like she should be treated. And you are right, your attitude is Machiavellian. It's all about power to you. We are not saying you are a bad person, good chance is that you are a good person. You are just confused on how to go about finding the best compatible woman for you. Maybe you were in a bad relationship, maybe you saw too many of your friends get screwed over. Whatever the case is, being with a woman is not a right. It's not about a conquest, because a conquest is something that is done and over with. Being with a woman is not about the destination, but the journey. You have to treat them the right way, mentally, physically and most important emotionally. In the situation you are in right now, this means to let her know that you are doing your soul-searching that you apologize for your mistreatment of her and that her happiness is most important even if that means letting her go with some other guy. Don't puruse this, you will scare her away. Think of her right now as a scared cat. If you chase her she will run away even faster. Fix these things about yourself and there might be a chance that she might come around to you. If you can't wrap your head around this, then think of it as a gift you are giving her for the time being.
Spinderella Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 Sorry to hear that your father passed away, that must be tough. As for the situation you want advice for, I am sure that people would be willing to give the kind of advice you seek, if they really believed that it was the best thing for you. People tend to give advice based on what they see a situation needs, not what the person has actually asked. Its a good thing, and shows that there are ALOT of decent people around. In my personal life, I have been where you are now, wanting to get someone back for all the wrong reasons. Then (and with help from other peoples wisdom too) I realised the most important thing, which is knowing who you really are, who you want to be, and what YOU are willing to give to a relationship. I have learnt to stop myself now when I see that my desires are based on ego, or selfish wants. My next relationship will be about two people who know themselves and are willing to keep learning and growing, respect, trust and love, or I will not even get involved. It may sound boring to a womaniser, but I think you will find that this is what the majority of women (and men) really want. Something else. You may be able to win this woman back, but if the fundamentals are not right, then it will never be for long. You cannot fake it for long either. Another thing. If you want to be trusted, you have to learn also to trust. You dont trust that this woman (women) may have the capacity to care, you think she (they) will only think of you as a conquest, and you treat others as a conquest. What came first? Who can say. But what is true for you, is usually true for you in every way. If you believe in a world where people see each other as conquests, then that is how your world will be. So maybe she would see you as a conquest, maybe then you should start believing in other things, and treating people as you would wish to be treated yourself.
reboot Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 You just keep saying this, and I finally have to ask, what in hell does you being "in your prime" have to do with anything? If "in your prime" means "I'm a self-serving, emotionless, selfish little bitch" then I'm glad I'm past my prime. </rant>
Author mikeraw Posted September 26, 2007 Author Posted September 26, 2007 Again, I appreciate all this advice. Your tough "love" (I would hardly call it that) approach and insistance that this is a lost cause, a lesson to be learned, makes complete sense to me. It's not what I want to hear, it's not what I asked for, but it makes complete sense. I will never turn into a pathetic stalker. This is a matter of principle. Nor do I want to seem like or be thought of as one. This girl is not a complete angel, either. She was seeing someone when we met, not her ex of 4 years, and the first FRI that I spent the night at her house I remember having to leave SAT morning because the guy she was seeing was coming to visit her. On SUN night I saw her again and told me she broke things off with him. I asked if they were intimate and she told me they were. Women can justify anything. That's why for a time I continued acting how I had been acting up to that point. I didn't want to write about this for obvious reasons, and she occasionally talked to guys she had seen in past over the phone. She also told me that for a while there she was seeing some guy in Austin. So she's as bad as I have been. "Do it to Julia!" (That's Orwell, for those of you who don't know.) I'm not the only one totally at fault. She was being a nice person with me and I didn't react in time. Now I want my chance, my turn to make things right.
KittenMoon Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 This girl is not a complete angel, either. She was seeing someone when we met, not her ex of 4 years, and the first FRI that I spent the night at her house I remember having to leave SAT morning because the guy she was seeing was coming to visit her. On SUN night I saw her again and told me she broke things off with him. I asked if they were intimate and she told me they were. Women can justify anything. That's why for a time I continued acting how I had been acting up to that point. Do you have so little respect for yourself that you see this girl, who you're saying is dishonest, manipulative, and able to "justify anything", as a good match for you? Then again, maybe you guys deserve each other... just try to keep your dramas from spilling over into other's lives too much. "Do it to Julia!" (That's Orwell, for those of you who don't know.) Wow! You am smart!
Trialbyfire Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 Again, I appreciate all this advice. Your tough "love" (I would hardly call it that) approach and insistance that this is a lost cause, a lesson to be learned, makes complete sense to me. It's not what I want to hear, it's not what I asked for, but it makes complete sense. I will never turn into a pathetic stalker. This is a matter of principle. Nor do I want to seem like or be thought of as one. This girl is not a complete angel, either. She was seeing someone when we met, not her ex of 4 years, and the first FRI that I spent the night at her house I remember having to leave SAT morning because the guy she was seeing was coming to visit her. On SUN night I saw her again and told me she broke things off with him. I asked if they were intimate and she told me they were. Women can justify anything. That's why for a time I continued acting how I had been acting up to that point. I didn't want to write about this for obvious reasons, and she occasionally talked to guys she had seen in past over the phone. She also told me that for a while there she was seeing some guy in Austin. So she's as bad as I have been. "Do it to Julia!" (That's Orwell, for those of you who don't know.) I'm not the only one totally at fault. She was being a nice person with me and I didn't react in time. Now I want my chance, my turn to make things right. Hmmm...I see an attempt to justify things but not from her... So she slept with you and broke up with her existing b/f, all in one weekend, and slept with him too. It sounds like she was being honest with both of you. That you choose to hold that over her head for justifying your ego-driven actions, once again, doesn't reflect very well on you. Was she seeing the guy in Austin when she was seeing you or her ex? Was there a discussion of exclusivity previous to her seeing the guy in Austin?
Author mikeraw Posted September 26, 2007 Author Posted September 26, 2007 As far as I know, the only overlap was me and the guy she was seeing at the time. The guy in Austin had happened in the past. Recent past. Months, 2 or 3, before meeting me. I should've given all these details at the beggining of my original post and toned down on my recent behavior from the very beggining. Maybe I would've received friendlier advice.
jmargel Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 Again, I appreciate all this advice. Your tough "love" (I would hardly call it that) approach and insistance that this is a lost cause, a lesson to be learned, makes complete sense to me. It's not what I want to hear, it's not what I asked for, but it makes complete sense. I will never turn into a pathetic stalker. This is a matter of principle. Nor do I want to seem like or be thought of as one. This girl is not a complete angel, either. She was seeing someone when we met, not her ex of 4 years, and the first FRI that I spent the night at her house I remember having to leave SAT morning because the guy she was seeing was coming to visit her. On SUN night I saw her again and told me she broke things off with him. I asked if they were intimate and she told me they were. Women can justify anything. That's why for a time I continued acting how I had been acting up to that point. I didn't want to write about this for obvious reasons, and she occasionally talked to guys she had seen in past over the phone. She also told me that for a while there she was seeing some guy in Austin. So she's as bad as I have been. "Do it to Julia!" (That's Orwell, for those of you who don't know.) I'm not the only one totally at fault. She was being a nice person with me and I didn't react in time. Now I want my chance, my turn to make things right. You can't justify what you did to her by what she's done to you. It seems like the relationship was full of drama and distrust by both of you. How can that make it seem like you two had a great relationship? Are you romanticizing parts of it? You have to take the good with the bad and it sounds like her head is up in the air on what relationship to take on. Dating someone like that is going to put you both on an emotional roller coaster ride. We are not here to crucify you. We are here to show you the proper way to achieve your goals. I think the most important part of all of this is to change your way of thinking. You remind me of another poster on here (Woggle) search for some of his posts. He has a great wife but by him getting screwed in the past and his friends getting screwed over he has this taintness about women in general and it will eventually affect his marriage. Being resentful of women is like you drinking the poison and expecting them to die. It doesn't work that way. It's not a screw or be screwed world. It's about finding someone that teaches you about yourself and finding someone who is compatitble with you. The last thing love is about is getting what you want. Love is giving without the expectation of getting anything in return. This is what you need to do for this girl.
Author mikeraw Posted September 27, 2007 Author Posted September 27, 2007 Greenfrog, I don't know how to send private messages on this forum. I already humiliated myself in front of her, begged her for a chance. How can i compose myself and approach her as a friend if I have already literally been on my knees hugging and kissing her forehead asking for a new chance? How can I bounce back from that low? This weekend (and it's fast approaching) I'm going to take her flowers to her job. With a little note and a little collar I bought her in Nicaragua when I went in July. (At that time I had decided to take her seriously, but she independently decided to get rid of me at that time.) I never had a chance to give her that trinket. How can I get her to give me at least an hour or two in a normal setting? She won't asnwer my calls!
Spinderella Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Mikeraw, I REEEALLY dont think you should be sending her flowers, or presents or ANYTHING. This isnt about your womanising or anything, but, its about the fact that you are behaving like a STALKER. She is not interested in you. If she was she would answer her calls. You are hassling her, and its completely unfair. She has no obligations to you, you do NOT know what love is, if you think that you are behaving lovingly toward her. You WANT her, you do not love her, and you are imposing yourself into her life. Let me explain in your language: Now, imagine if one of the "bits of tail" showed up at your door, saying "we spent the night together and now I realise I LOVE YOU!". You try to explain to her, as nicely as possible, you are not interested in anything more, which only makes her more determined to have you. She grabs your arm, sits you down for a talk, about how much she realises she loves you. She calls constantly and then starts giving you gifts and flowers..... How do you feel about this scenario?
Author mikeraw Posted September 27, 2007 Author Posted September 27, 2007 Spinderella, She wasn't just someone that I was with for one night. She went out of her way for me numerous times, I went out of my way for her several times, as well. Granted, mine were half-assed attemtps at companionship, but still. I haven't called any of the other girls I was with. I actually felt like telling this nurse I loved her a few times, nut didn't do it out of fear of getting hurt or driving her away, even though I knew she had feelings for me. I have to try this. Girls that know me personally tell me to persist. Even my mom, that never passes up an opportunity to instruct me to be a better person, has told me to follow through with my plan of flowers. I haven't contacted her since SUN night. I haven't been stalking her. Let's just not use that word in this thread because impressionable people will hang on to it to attack me. This forum is therapeutic and, believe it or not, I am learning from the advice of all that have replied. I wrote her a song in piano, but I won't tell her that, obviously... maybe if we get back together...
reboot Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 I smell a restraining order in this man's future...
Author mikeraw Posted September 27, 2007 Author Posted September 27, 2007 I smell a restraining order in this man's future... How did I know someone was going to say this? I'm on a noble quest here!
reboot Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Ok, I'll give you this. If you send flowers to her work, with a little note that says something along the lines of, "I really think we could have something special, if you agree please call me. If I don't hear from you, have a great life and I'll always remember you fondly", and when she DOESN'T call you you drop it and leave her alone, then I'll take back everything I said in this thread. If you persist at that point, then you're a stalker, plain and simple.
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