whichwayisup Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 James has given you some wonderful advice and some things to think about. Read his reply again and again and again. I hope it sinks in.... LB, and everyone else is right too, so please take a step back, try to read objectively, with the blinders off...You can't BE objective because you're smack in the middle of this...The emotions and your heart have taken over and right now you need to start thinking with your head. Why doesn't he just tell me this...IF his wife means so much to him then what was he doing messing with me to begin with? Things between us are so REAL. The love we share is ike nothing I have ever experienced before and he says the same is true of what he feels for me. If neither of us can walk away from this then how do we go forward. How do we reach a point where we are openly together, where ppl know we are a couple? Do I just tell him I cannot stand having to share him with his wife? That I want to be out in the open be living the life we have talked of so often......Do I just tell him that this SECRET is too much for me? That I want him FULL TIME and that I want to shout to the world that we love one another????? Because he is selfish. He is getting something from you that his wife can't give him - Excitement, that rush, intense sexual, lust crush like feelings... He may 'feel' inlove, but it actually is in-LUST. Love isn't just a feeling, it's an action. He isn't available in the way you want him to be so you have a choice to make. Stay the OW, his side dish, his secret life...OR end it and tell him to call you when he's divorced. Give this some thought. If he truely loves you and wants to change his life, divorce and BE with you, he will.......But, it's been over a year and he hasn't done a thing to change his life for you. THAT says ALOT. i could not possibly just see him at restaurants etc....and have no intimacy. Things between us on that level are so intense passionate and real I cannot imagine my life without him...and he says the same of me. There is no way we could "just talk" We desire one another too much, we love one another too much Then ALL of this is based on sex and lust. You two share passion, share intense feelings, great sex....But, not true friendship. You don't care enough about him to let him go, do what his best for him, his wife and his children. All you can think about it getting him away from his family....He doesn't want to be away from them, which is why you are the OW and WILL continue to be the OW. You are being as selfish as he is, only thinking of yourselves, not really eachother and what's best for each of you. He's an idiot for letting you believe that he'll leave his wife. He should NOT be making those promises to you...And, with that being said, you shouldn't be believing him because actions speak louder than words. And, you know he's married, so you're hearing what you WANT to happen...He is just saying those words to keep you in his life. I hope you seek some counselling to help you through this. I hope too that you gain the strength to realize that you're ruining your life waiting for a married man to leave his wife and kids, and that you'll end this affair. Yeah it hurts, I can tell you're in alot of pain, but imagine your life in another year, or even 5 years from now. Will you still be waiting for him? Putting your own life on hold. Missing out on making babies, building a life with someone else? Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 i could not possibly just see him at restaurants etc....and have no intimacy. Things between us on that level are so intense passionate and real I cannot imagine my life without him...and he says the same of me. There is no way we could "just talk" We desire one another too much, we love one another too much That's not love, that's lust, and that's nothing to build a relationship on. That statement proves that there is no substance to your relationship. By the way, have you asked him yet? You've got dozens of questions, what are you waiting for? Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Things between us are so REAL. quote] They aren't real to him. His wife is real, his marriage is real, his kids are real but you're just fantasy. BTW, I'm beginning to wonder if YOU are real. Why can't you listen to what everyone is saying? Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 They aren't real to him. His wife is real, his marriage is real, his kids are real but you're just fantasy. Bingo! You are his fantasy. If you became his reality, then you would lose to his wife completely. As long as he keeps you separate from reality, he will "love" you..along with his wife and children. Link to post Share on other sites
lavendera Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 So maybe you should check some other sites on the internet... like the one over here http://www.womansavers.com/p_posts.asp?t=16641, where someone is saying you're so drunk you've been telling the world about your affair. Odd. Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Oh my, that takes the cake doesn't it. We've been being super nice compared to them too. Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Your friend isn't very nice...she called you a skank! Link to post Share on other sites
overandout Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Bingo! You are his fantasy. If you became his reality, then you would lose to his wife completely. As long as he keeps you separate from reality, he will "love" you..along with his wife and children. This is so true. The OW who tell you that he is in love with you, but love doesn't mean he will leave his family, are the very OW who are destined to remain OW for a very long time. They justify their existence as playing second fiddle by saying that just because he loves the OW it doesn't mean he will leave. They swallow the age old line about staying for the kids because on the face of it, it is a justfiable reason for the mm to stay married. The harsh reality is that the kids are a convenient excuse and any mm who truly loves and wants a committed relationship with the OW will leave. Those that stay put are basically using the OW to satisfy what is lacking in their marriage. But ask those mm to leave the marriage and they will run. Give him an ultimatum amd you won't see him for dust. You know the answer, he will continue to use you for as long as you allow it. You sense it or you wouldn't be posting. If you want a bit of fun with no future, and enjoy spending Xmas and the holidays without the man that you love (while he is enjoying life with his wife and still sleeping with her) then fine. Take it for what it is, but just realise that he may be fond of you but he doesn't want to be with you full time. That isn't love and you know it. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 BUT I HAVE NEVER FELT FOR ANYONE THE WAY I FEEL FOR THIS MAN....THIS IS THE BEST FEELING I HAVE EVER KNOWN. HOW CAN I JUST WALK AWAY WHEN HE TELLS ME HOW MUCH HE LOVES ME, HE IS PART OF MY DAILY LIFE AND SAYS HE WANTS TO BE WITH ME? There are other fish in the sea, and ones who will be true to you and mean it when they say I love you. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 i could not possibly just see him at restaurants etc....and have no intimacy. Things between us on that level are so intense passionate and real I cannot imagine my life without him...and he says the same of me. There is no way we could "just talk" We desire one another too much, we love one another too much This doesn't sound like someone in love, it sounds like in lust. If you can't sit and have a simple conversation without wanting to hump him, it ain't about love. JMO Link to post Share on other sites
lavendera Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 So what's up mistress toy? Have you had a little chat with your friend that believes you were so drunk you couldn't remember telling her your life story? Unless of course, you are one in the same. I think the people on these forums have been around long enough to know a troll when they see one. If you seriously wanted answers, you would be listening to the last 5 pages, instead you keep insisting that you don't need to talk, you just need to have sex. Is it advice you're looking for, or trouble? Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Why doesn't he just tell me this...IF his wife means so much to him then what was he doing messing with me to begin with? Things between us are so REAL. The love we share is ike nothing I have ever experienced before and he says the same is true of what he feels for me. If neither of us can walk away from this then how do we go forward. How do we reach a point where we are openly together, where ppl know we are a couple? Do I just tell him I cannot stand having to share him with his wife? That I want to be out in the open be living the life we have talked of so often......Do I just tell him that this SECRET is too much for me? That I want him FULL TIME and that I want to shout to the world that we love one another????? He is telling you this. He's telling you all the reasons he chooses not to leave, as I indicated in my first post. With people, you have to listen to what they're really saying, and it's often between the lines, and of course in their actions. Every day he doesn't leave he is saying 'I'm staying'. In addition he's given you many reasons for him to stay. When someone says, 'I want to be with you...' and yet they're not with you, the meaning is clear: they want to be with you. Wanting and doing are NOT the same thing, although we often hear them as such. That's wishful thinking. You can tell him all the things you want too (as you've listed above)... unfortunately they're not within your power. It's completely up to him (and of course his W) what he does with his marriage. You can make all the demands, issue all the ultimatums you like... but in the end it all comes down to what he is going to do. Or rather what he IS doing. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 This is so true. The OW who tell you that he is in love with you, but love doesn't mean he will leave his family, are the very OW who are destined to remain OW for a very long time. They justify their existence as playing second fiddle by saying that just because he loves the OW it doesn't mean he will leave. They swallow the age old line about staying for the kids because on the face of it, it is a justfiable reason for the mm to stay married. The harsh reality is that the kids are a convenient excuse and any mm who truly loves and wants a committed relationship with the OW will leave. Those that stay put are basically using the OW to satisfy what is lacking in their marriage. But ask those mm to leave the marriage and they will run. Well of course. Because the choice is there: he's staying married, the OW either gets out because she can't deal with that, or she remains the OW as long as the relationship is satisfying. But in that situation, everyone knows the score, there is no false expectation, and providing that the relationship is worthwhile for the OW, of course it can continue for years. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether other people think that the relationship is worthwhile, degrading, amoral, pointless, non-commital or dead-end. It's entirely between the two people involved. There are far, far worse things than being in a loving, fulfilling relationship with someone who is married to someone else. Whether it would suit 'you' or anyone else, is irrelevant in the vast scheme of things. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MistressORToy Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 So, the MM is in a marriage that has a big crisis. His wife is dying (or so he first thought). He is getting older. He meets someone younger (how old are you?) who shows him love and affection. quote] To answer your question...I am 47, I was married when we started seeing one another, had been married for a long time I have grown kids and a grandchild...My marriage was a sham for quite some time....and I had often thought of leaving and after I started dating MM I finally found the courage to get out of my bad marriage. He has told me he wanted to leave his marriage as well...I told him life is too short to pretend, that he knows what he needs to do but that he has been hesitating to take steps to make things happen for us.....I told him to wait no longer. He has still not made any stesp to move out of the family home. I have been reading these posts...and I did come here for real advice however I just cannot seem to bring myself to back off to break things off with him....my heart aches at the thought. I think his wife is on to things at this point and I get the feeling he seems to think the "game" is up...that somehow his secret isn't so secret. I get the feeling he is waiting every day for his W to blow up at him.....I just don't know what he would do in that moment of revelaton if she were to say " i know what's going on" and suggest that they could work thru it...IF it stops now.....would his heart skip a beat when he realized in the moment alll he was truly risking? Would knwoing he'd be a visitor in his own home, having to call ahead to drop by and see the kids, to hand over his keys and ring the bell from that day on like a dleivery guy...would those thoughts make him suddenly rethink the things he has promised me? I just don't know..... Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 I don't know either, but if I was a betting man, that's the way I'd bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MistressORToy Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 So maybe you should check some other sites on the internet... like the one over here http://www.womansavers.com/p_posts.asp?t=16641, where someone is saying you're so drunk you've been telling the world about your affair. Odd. OMG!! i know who that is....and yes we have been to clubs and I have spoken to her I don't recall being THAT DRUNK. Guess I should not talk to her....maybe thats why I was feeling like his W might know something....I see that person at local band shows, we follow the same band and so though we do not call one another and have lunch we do see each other a few weekends a month and socially party and have a great time.....She never let on that she knows this MM's wife. She told me she kows he is married but never said a word about knowing the W....and come to think of it neither did MM. He does seem tense when this person is in the same club that a whole bunch of mutual ppl we know go to and when he sees she is talking to me....hmmm now I guess Iknow why that is, I thought he was tense because his W is usally there with him as wel....but I bet he is REALLY wondering if this person will tell his W anything or knows anythng to tell???? Link to post Share on other sites
Author MistressORToy Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 Things between us are so REAL. quote] They aren't real to him. His wife is real, his marriage is real, his kids are real but you're just fantasy. BTW, I'm beginning to wonder if YOU are real. Why can't you listen to what everyone is saying? I am listening....it is just upsetting to think that this is all not as important or real to him as it is to me...I am deeply atached to him and have no idea what to do or which way to turn...do I hang on for a while longer or do I give and ultimatum and acept the outcome? Either way...I am still going to be hurting it seems Link to post Share on other sites
Author MistressORToy Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 So what's up mistress toy? Have you had a little chat with your friend that believes you were so drunk you couldn't remember telling her your life story? Unless of course, you are one in the same. I think the people on these forums have been around long enough to know a troll when they see one. If you seriously wanted answers, you would be listening to the last 5 pages, instead you keep insisting that you don't need to talk, you just need to have sex. Is it advice you're looking for, or trouble? I KNOW we need to talk...I am just normally non confrontational and I am unsure of where he would stand if I were to say make a choice....I am emotionally invested and it pains me to think he just may say that if thats how it is then sorry but he has to stay with his W....I would be crushed and I have tried to get up the nerve for this conversation with him but every time the chance is presented I feel so tense and shaky that I lose my nerve....guess I have to psyche myself up for it...I don't want t come off as a weak person or clingy or "please Im begging u not to leave me' type. I guess I want to have this talk and do it without breaking down in tears showing I am weak which Iknow will give him more power Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether other people think that the relationship is worthwhile, degrading, amoral, pointless, non-commital or dead-end. It's entirely between the two people involved. There are far, far worse things than being in a loving, fulfilling relationship with someone who is married to someone else. Whether it would suit 'you' or anyone else, is irrelevant in the vast scheme of things. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. What matters is how the OP poster feels about herself. Her settling to be the OW for a very long time WILL make HER feel degraded...Feel like second fiddle..Feel not cared about by the MM because he isn't going to leave his wife. It's doing damage to HER. I am listening....it is just upsetting to think that this is all not as important or real to him as it is to me...I am deeply atached to him and have no idea what to do or which way to turn...do I hang on for a while longer or do I give and ultimatum and acept the outcome? Either way...I am still going to be hurting it seems You aren't as important to him as his wife is. You are not first in his life. Get used to that if you want to continue to be his OW. This man is NOT going to change his life for you... I KNOW we need to talk...I am just normally non confrontational and I am unsure of where he would stand if I were to say make a choice....I am emotionally invested and it pains me to think he just may say that if thats how it is then sorry but he has to stay with his W....I would be crushed and I have tried to get up the nerve for this conversation with him but every time the chance is presented I feel so tense and shaky that I lose my nerve....guess I have to psyche myself up for it...I don't want t come off as a weak person or clingy or "please Im begging u not to leave me' type. I guess I want to have this talk and do it without breaking down in tears showing I am weak which Iknow will give him more power Don't you think his wife is emotionally invested? How can you expect a man, even if he does have real feelings for you, to throw away his history, his family, his wife -Everything that he's worked hard for over many years, give ALL that up over some feelings he has for another woman. You need to decide whether you can continue to just be the OW in his life, play that role and deal with it...Or, get the balls and end it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MistressORToy Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 Your friend isn't very nice...she called you a skank
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