Sorting through difficult issues

[SoulSearch]

I have some issues I am sorting through and my sense is that some on this forum may be a good resource for me as I do some soul searching. I have been married for 20+ years to Becky, an incredibly beautiful woman with whom I feel deeply committed and very much in love with. I consider myself very lucky in this regard and its important for me to take care of this relationship. I would never want to hurt or disappoint Becky - she is the best and the woman that I will grow old with.

 

The person on this earth with whom I feel the deepest emotional and intimate bond with, however, is not Becky. It is another incredibly beautiful woman with whom I feel deeply committed and very much in love with. This is also a 20+ year relationship and it is platonic.

 

Becky and my platonic female friend (Susan) are life long friends and the families are extremely close and interconnected. It is widely acknowledged by those in our circle that Susan and I are "sole mates." I have worked with Susan for many years. We have lunch together from time to time and share many common interests. While Becky struggles with emotional intimacy, Susan is warm, affectionate and open. This fills a need that isn't met in my marriage. Heredity and environment conspired against Becky. Her relationships rarely, if ever, pass beyond superficial status and her social phobia is so intense she will not even discuss it with her psychiatrist of many years for fear of being scrutinized and not thought well of. It is difficult to comprehend how this condition effects people unless you've lived with it yourself.

 

My friend Susan has gone through several bad marriages but has been single for the last few years, unable to meet "Mr. Right." Sometimes I sense that Susan compares other men with me and the fit is never quite as good in some aspects. Realistically, however, my relationship with Susan has created more problems for me than it has for her. I've spent my share of time thinking about the "what ifs" and fantasizing about the relationship. I know that some of this is normal but I find it disturbing. Neither Susan nor I want anything romantic in this relationship. We both love what we have, it's very special, and neither of us is about to jeopardize it. The three of us are great friends; we spend lots of time together and love each other very much.

 

I am very fortunate to have these two women in my life. There are so many positive aspects to both of these relationships that time would fail me to recount them. I have so many wonderful memories and experiences stretching over the years. Becky and Susan are exceptional human beings. If they were bi-sexual - I'd believe that I had died and gone to heaven ;-)

 

There are times, however, when I feel guilty and question the ethics of maintaining these two relationships. I was raised in a religiously conservative family and am keenly aware that society generally frowns upon cross sex platonic relationships. I understand there is a fine line that must be respected and never crossed and that danger always lurks beneath the surface. I understand that my platonic friendship with Susan diverts emotional energy out of my marriage at times. I understand that my relationship with Susan has the potential to create problems for her in her relationships and I in mine. All of this makes it quite a challenge to relax. It's as if I am constantly walking a tight rope.

 

If one of these relationships had to go, it would be my relationship with Susan, there is no question about that. At times, I have nearly concluded that that would be the right thing to do, especially after reading the book "Emotional Infidelity" by Gary Neuman. By his standard, I am guilty of emotional adultery. Something that he feels is worse and more damaging than actual adultery motivated by lust. Gary comes from a conservative Jewish background and I understand his perspective. I have shed my conservative religious ways in recent years but have managed to retain all of the guilt ;-) Thanks Mom!

 

So how do you say? End the platonic friendship with Susan and accept the consequences or maintain and deal with it? What do ethics dictate? What have I missed? Why is this so complicated that my head wants to explode?

[Tony T]

As long as your wife has no problem with your outside friendship(s) and your platonic stays platonic, I see absolutely no problem with you retaining your friendship with Susan. However, I sense that this is on the brink of crossing the line and that isn't good.

 

I think you place a great value in your friend Susan and you should keep her around, although for her sake you may have to release her at some point because her dependence on you emotionally may keep her from being motivated to seek other outside romantic relationships.

 

You seem mature enough to juggle this well so keep up the good work. As long as everything is out in the open and all genuinely approve, behave yourself and enjoy life, love and friends.

[SoulSearc2003]

Hi Tony,

 

Definitely not on the brink of crossing over. Both Susan and I would end the friendship if it came down to that.

 

Susan dates regularly, just has had no luck in her relationships so far. I am always a bit tense when she is not in a stable relationship as at present.

 

Juggling is the word - very appropriate metaphor. I think the issue really is the ethics and coming to terms with the guilt hang over being from a conservative background.

 

We are very sophisticated animals ;-)

 

Thanks for your response.

[moimeme]

I don't think the 'conservative background' is likely to have taken social phobia and difficulties with emotional intimacy into account. In most cases, having one's emotional needs met outside the primary relationship would be a very bad thing, but in your unusual circumstance, and especially since you are so committed to NOT crossing the line, it's different. The bottom line is your relationship. If your wife understands and accepts Susan's role, then it is nobody else's business what you choose to do.

[yes]

So you have a wife, and Susan is someone you're attracted to, but do your best to keep it platonic, right?

 

I'm wondering why you'd want to do this to yourself? It must be hard to see Susan date others, and to hang out with her knowing that all you can be is friends while you'd like more.

 

Moreover, whether or not your wife admits this, i'm sure she is insecured by a pretty and close friends of yours. I doubt Susan's presence can do much good, aside from making your wife jealous.

 

In the end, running after two rabbits leaves you with no rabbit at all.

 

just some thoughts,

-yes

[HokeyReligions]

While Becky struggles with emotional intimacy, Susan is warm, affectionate and open. This fills a need that isn't met in my marriage. Heredity and environment conspired against Becky. Her relationships rarely, if ever, pass beyond superficial status and her social phobia is so intense she will not even discuss it with her psychiatrist of many years for fear of being scrutinized and not thought well of. It is difficult to comprehend how this condition effects people unless you've lived with it yourself.

 

Has Becky given you priviledges to speak with her doctor and for her doctor to disclose information to you? Do you participate at all in Becky's therapy?

 

If you know that she won't discuss some things with her doctor, then I'll bet there are more things that she won't discuss with you. You say she and Susan are close friends -- but how sure are you? Could Becky be saying this to please you? Because she's afraid? There could be a part of Becky that even she doesn't recognize and that could be filled with jealously and resentment and depression - over Susan and Susan's place in your life.

 

If you are not proactive in Becky's therapy - why? Even if she doesn't give her doctor permission to talk with you, perhaps she can let you talk to her doctor and your perspective may help her doctor adjust diagnosis and treatment. If she absolutly does not want you involved then maybe you need to discuss it with her. She needs to really understand that what hurts her, hurts you because you love her.

 

Of course, we only have your posts here to go by and it is impossible for you, or anyone, to truly explain and portray what is happening. We can't hear tone of voice, or see expression, or get perspectives from others, or truly know the history.

 

You DID make a commitment to Becky and I think you owe it to her and to youself, to find out why she fails to fill the intimate needs in your life and to work together to solve the problem - and- to make a determination about your marriage and if you want to continue it based solely on your relationship between you and Becky, don't compare or bring Susan into the equation at all.

 

If my husband had a female friend - no matter if she were my best friend - if I knew he felt closer to her emotionally/intimatly than to me, even if he didn't act on it, it would hurt me and shadow my total emotional self.

[SoulSearch]

Originally posted by yes

So you have a wife, and Susan is someone you're attracted to, but do your best to keep it platonic, right?

 

I'm actually more physically attracted to my wife. She is nothing short of gorgeous. The relationship with Susan has always been platonic.

 

I'm wondering why you'd want to do this to yourself? It must be hard to see Susan date others, and to hang out with her knowing that all you can be is friends while you'd like more.

 

It's acutally a very satisfying arrangement the vast majority of the time. It's not hard to see Susan date. It's acutally harder when she is not attached. My wish is for her to find "Mr. Right" and have a family and hopefully for all of us to remain close.

 

Moreover, whether or not your wife admits this, i'm sure she is insecured by a pretty and close friends of yours. I doubt Susan's presence can do much good, aside from making your wife jealous.

 

hmmm - hard call. Becky considers Susan a member of the family as do I but you are correct in that there could be hidden jealousy. I do pick up on a little bit of that once in a while.

 

In the end, running after two rabbits leaves you with no rabbit at all.

 

I've already got the rabbit I want. Thank you for your comments.

[Carly]

I'm getting a bit antsy with this thread, because I can identify from both Soul Search and Susan's postiion.

 

I am married to an emotionally unavailable man, over twenty years. I, like Soul Search, have needs for much more emotional connection than hubby could ever provide (yes, we've tried therapy, he's tried and tried, but you just can't squeeze blood from a rock.)

 

It doesn't surprise me that Becky isn't overly concerned about your relationship with Susan. If she is emotioanlly unavailable, (my guess from your post), she probably doesn't have the complexity or depth of feelings that others in her situation might have. My hubby couldn't have cared less about any of my close friendships. Nor would he have the imagination to suspect an emotional affair. He, like Becky, is also socially anxious and seems content to stay to himself and not rock the boat.

 

I've been meeting my emotional needs through girlfriends, unattractive male colleagues, and a gay male friend who I treasure deeply. All those sources of emotional connection worked for me and kept the marriage going -- UNTIL I met an attractive heterosexual man who I could connect with. He, like you Soul Search, is married to an emotionally unavailable wife. And like you, he finds his outside soulmate (me) attractive and he cherishes my words, thoughts, and feelings, so I identify with Susan as well.

 

I have decided not to continue this emotional affair, because of the pain it was causing me: I was fantasizing about him all the time (yes, even while in bed with hubby) and overly focussed on him -- a married man, after all.

 

I have also decided to NEVER AGAIN entertain an emotional affair with an atractive heterosexual man UNLESS he and I are both legally available --- i.e., emotional availability just won't cut it for me anymore in such a circumstance.

 

I just hope that Susan isn't harbouring any hidden fantasies about you -- i.e., thinking as I did that rates of separation and divorce are high, odds are in her favour that you'll split up, etc. Ask Susan to ask herself in private: does she dream about you? Privately fantasize about "something terrible happening" to Becky to clear the way for you? Does she "perk up" when she gets a call from you? (Don't ask her to answer this question for you -- these are her private thoughts.) I suspect that she does harbour romantic feelings about you, since she holds up men she meets against you. Would you feel comfortable forwarding this thread to her? If not, why not? If your feelings toward her are truly platonic, then you shouldn't hesitate to help her explore her feelings here. Personnaly, I suspect that if Susan had absolutely NO interest in you, then your relationship with her would be more parallel to the relationship I have with my dear gay friend -- i.e., nothing to soul search over, let alone write to an anonymous forum for advice.

 

I also JUST WONDER if you are subconciously picking up attraction signals from Susan that are difficult to face bcause they are enjoyable to you, yet also your responsibility to lay to rest with her.

 

I'm glad that you are doing some soul searching about all of this. It's no small matter. I think it's time for Susan to start some soul searching as well.

[SoulSearch]

HokeyReligions wrote:

 

Has Becky given you privileges to speak with her doctor and for her doctor to disclose information to you

 

No

 

Do you participate at all in Becky's therapy

 

Becky doesn't find therapy helpful. I did participate in the past but that has been a few years ago. She sees a psychiatrist who prescribes meds for ADD, Depression and General anxiety. I don't believe there is any therapy involved at this point. Suggesting additional therapy would make Becky angry.

 

If you know that she won't discuss some things with her doctor, then I'll bet there are more things that she won't discuss with you. You say she and Susan are close friends -- but how sure are you?

 

Pretty sure.

 

Could Becky be saying this to please you? Because she's afraid? There could be a part of Becky that even she doesn't recognize and that could be filled with jealously and resentment and depression - over Susan and Susan's place in your life.

 

I don't think so but I could be mistaken.

 

If you are not proactive in Becky's therapy - why? Even if she doesn't give her doctor permission to talk with you, perhaps she can let you talk to her doctor and your perspective may help her doctor adjust diagnosis and treatment. If she absolutly does not want you involved then maybe you need to discuss it with her. She needs to really understand that what hurts her, hurts you because you love her.

 

It seems that your suggesting that a few more pills or comments by a doctor or therapist is the solution. Becky's situation is not that simple. Early childhood abuse, an alcoholic father, a mother who was emotionally unavailable and remains a mystery to this day, early childhood rape by a relative and emotional illness. This stuff is like sand, water, dirt and cement mixed up and left to sit up for many years. Any negative feedback that Becky gets is devastating. Even the slightest impression that someone is scrutinizing her or that she might be wrong or not capable is overwhelming for her.

 

Of course, we only have your posts here to go by and it is impossible for you, or anyone, to truly explain and portray what is happening. We can't hear tone of voice, or see expression, or get perspectives from others, or truly know the history.

 

You DID make a commitment to Becky and I think you owe it to her and to youself, to find out why she fails to fill the intimate needs in your life and to work together to solve the problem - and- to make a determination about your marriage and if you want to continue it based solely on your relationship between you and Becky, don't compare or bring Susan into the equation at all.

 

Well that is the problem. After 20+ years of marriage to Becky I understand the problems. Well enough to conclude that they are not getting fixed in this life. I accept Becky for who she is and I love her very much. You are quite correct that comparisons are unfair. While this thread is focusing in large part on Becky's faults that comes up naturally when I try to discuss what is behind my attraction to Susan. (i.e. what it is that I am getting out of that relationship that I cannot get in my marriage). That is an unfortunate and regrettable situation but I'm trying to be honest about what is going on here.

 

If my husband had a female friend - no matter if she were my best friend - if I knew he felt closer to her emotionally/intimatly than to me, even if he didn't act on it, it would hurt me and shadow my total emotional self.

 

If I switched shoes, I would likely feel the same way. You are probably emotionally available to your husband and vice versa.

 

If I thought that Susan was a threat to my marriage, I would end the friendship. If I become convinced that its unethical to get some of my emotional needs met outside of my marriage, I will probably end the friendship.

 

I think the other thing that troubles me is what happens to my marriage if I end my relationship with Susan? How does this impact Becky and I? I have a half sister that is much younger than I am, more like a daughter. Perhaps she could be a source for me, I'm not sure. Bottom line is that I've got my hands full with my own health problems (many years of battling with a neurological disorder have finally confined me to a wheelchair). Becky does not work and I'm operating near my threshold of pain, stress and financial pressure.

 

If there is one thing about Becky that I resent, it is her need for an expensive lifestyle. Large home, new car, nice clothes, etc. I know that these things help fill a hole in her heart and probably distract her from her problems but they tax my abilties to provide for her to the extreme.

 

This is not an easy place to be without significant emotional support and at this stage of my life, Susan is pretty much it for me. It is a delicate balance and an ethical dilemma. Just talking helps though.

 

Thank you for your comments. If you have any other thoughts, I'd welcome hearing them.

[SoulSearch]

Carly:

 

Thank you for your post. I'm giving careful thought to your remarks and will reply in a day or two.

 

SoulSearch

[SoulSearch]

Carly,

 

I have spoken with Susan several times about this over the last couple of years. Susan wants Becky and I to stay together and for all of us to remain close friends. I believe Susan. I think the issue that I'm trying to put to rest is the ethics of having such a close relationship with Susan when I am married to Becky.

 

I get a good dose of guilt from time to time. It's

also a challenge to define and set boundaries for this kind of a relationship and be certain that you are being honest with yourself.

[SoulSearch]

I want to thank those who responded to my post. You've given me a great deal to think about.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Soul Search