There is hope after an affair

[reboot]

There's a big difference between forgiving and being a doormat.

[herenow]

HN- Quick question ..... I've read so many threads around here that everyones stories have gotten all meshed together in my brain. It was either you or another poster here who has said that you believed your H never actually actually slept with the OW. Was it you?

 

No it wasn't me. Ny H and the OW had sex, they had lots of sex. As matter of fact, that's all they had. In the emails and voice messages I heard she was very upset by that fact. She wanted more of him emotionally and he never gave it to her.

 

She was still upset after he went NC. She continued to leave messages begging him to tell her that she meant more to him than just sex. I actually began to feel sorry for her. My H and I discussed it with our therapist and together came up with a way to get her to stop calling. We haven't heard from her since last December.

 

If there are any more questions that anyone has, please know that I'm not ignoring you, but I have a very busy weekend and won't be able to check back until sometime next week.

 

NF, glad to hear you are doing well. I miss you!

 

Hope you all have a great weekend!

[lovernotafighter]

I am not surprised that people have come to this thread with words of discouragement. This is exactly what I was referring to in my post.

 

Some people can't accept that a marriage can be stronger after an affair. Yes, it takes time and a commitment from both spouses. Yes, it is painful, but if the WS is truly remorseful and willing to take responsibility for their actions and do what it takes to find and fix what is missing in both themselves and the marriage, it can be better than ever.

 

Everyone has their own choice to make when it comes their situation. I can only speak from my experience. My first reaction was to immediately get a divorce. I'm glad I listened to my therapist and gave it some time. I'm happy that I gave my H a second chance. I have never said to anyone including my H that they should hold back any information about the affair. If he had not told me the whole truth, as painful as it was to hear, we would not have been able to make it this far.

 

Again, I'm not at all surpstised that some people find the need to come to a supportive thread and claim that there is no way a marriage can truly survive. Well, you can believe me or not, but my marriage is stronger and healthier that is ever was. I'm happier and healthier than ever. It's amazing when you realize how much stress there is when you live with lies. My H agrees that life is so much better when you have nothing to hide and nothing to fear.

 

When there is true love, you will find a way. That also applies when a MM loves an OW, they will find a way to be together. That is human nature.

 

 

Herenow,

 

I apologise I am quoting your post from a week ago however it was as far as i could make it in your thread. I see what is happening here as well and it seems people are going in circles.

 

I just want to extend a very sincere congratulations for coming through the pain and anger and all the hurt a affair brings to all relationships and getting to the other side stronger and happier than ever before.

 

I agree full heartily with your words..love finds a way, no matter what if two people really love each other they will find a way back to each other and never let go.

 

thank you for sharing and caring on LS it means allot to many people on here and i for one and very happy for you.

[bish]

Betrayed husbands get no sympathy?

 

Oh sure they do. My stbXW is going all over town trying to paint me as a mental abuser to do damage control to her reputation because she was found out to be a serial cheater.

 

People she tries to smear my name to come back to me and tell me everything she has said because they know she is full of shi!t. I've had several people tell me if I need a character witness, I can count on them.

[OpenBook]

My stbXW is going all over town trying to paint me as a mental abuser

 

I cannot imagine how ANYONE could think that about you, bish.

[bish]

I cannot imagine how ANYONE could think that about you, bish.

 

ya ya ya..i know yadda yadda...cuz I am harsh on cheaters and people that sleep with the married, I'm an abuser...I know.

 

Sorry...this is the attitude one gets after being betrayed.

 

But she can accuse all she wants. Nobody who knows me buys it.

 

It doesn't help her reputation any that she is now with a guy that backhanded his last wife, and pleaded guilty to DUI and drugs.

I guess some cheaters do get what they deserve in the end.

[hurtonceagain]

I am a newer member and just wanted to say that your post was very motivating. I may be in the darkness right now but that does give me hope. Congrats sounds like you really deserve it.

[herenow]

I am a newer member and just wanted to say that your post was very motivating. I may be in the darkness right now but that does give me hope. Congrats sounds like you really deserve it.

 

Hi hurtonceagain, sorry I haven't responded to you, I have been a bit busy and unable to visit LS. I'm not sure of your situation, but all I can say is, if both of you truly want to make your marriage work, it can happen in time.

 

Don't think that there is a quick fix, it's a process that requires complete honesty and dedication from both of you. It took me a while before I could even begin to think about staying married to someone who cheated on me.

 

There was a period in the begging that all I wanted was him out of my life. My emotions went back and forth until I was able to see how much my H was willing to do to gain my trust and fix our marriage. At that point, we started to really see what our problems were and focus on fixing them together.

 

Some will tell you that you will never be able to trust your H again. That is the hardest thing to do, but in time I was able to rebuild trust and build a stronger marriage. Communication is key. You may not like some of the things you will hear and he won't like saying them, but it's vitally important to the success of your marriage.

 

Having said that, as I'm sure you have read here, it doesn't always work out. Every situation is different and only you can make the decision that works best for you. I wish you luck in whatever you chose to do.

 

I'm not sure if you have posted in the OW forum. I no longer read there because some of the posts can be toxic and I'm no longer interested in the life of the OW. If you want to work on your marriage, I would suggest that you stay away from getting into discussions with OW that will make your journey more difficult. There are some wonderful people on this site on both sides of affairs that can help you, just ignore the ones that doubt you or try to discourage you.

[NoIDidn't]

Hi All. I am back after a brief vacation as my 10th Wedding Anniversary just passed.

 

The EA happened shortly after the 8th year. We are closer now than we have ever been. Best yet is how many people tell me repeatedly that my H still beams when he sees me. The same man that rejected me for a co-worker beaming when he sees me.

 

We had a great time. I still think about it sometimes, but now I don't relive the pain and confusion of that time. And even when it does try to trigger sadness, it can never last because we have grown so much in our marriage and as individuals.

 

There is hope. We and many others are proof.

[Dazed1]

What a great and well-debated thread! I will not pretend to be anyone's final word, but I daresay I have done as much or more research on this subject than most people counseling marriage with psych degrees.

 

Of course there is hope... I have seen it happen and met couples who have not just survived it, but thrived after. For me, it is awe-inspiring to see because it truly requires BOTH parties to work brutally to make the necessary changes. I have to say; when it does happen, as it sounds for Herenow, it's a beautiful thing. Herenow, you have my heartfelt congrats.

 

The rub is that BOTH parties have to be willing to do the work. If one or the other holds back, even a little, that foundation remains cracked and eventually it will tumble. This is a category in which I am personally very familiar.

 

Whether or not a marriage survives infidelity is as individual as every one of us who so intellectually post our thoughts and opinions. we all make our decisions as best we can and as circumstances warrant.

 

"There is no way I'd put up w/ it!" Agreed. If I don't love my spouse; if I had no dependent children; if I have my own income; if I have someplace to go; if I won't get reemed in a divorce for my spouses affair; if I have little to lose. There a million variables that go into each person's decision process, their decisions are their own and deserve to be respected.

 

"I can't go, there's too much at stake" Agreed. If I believe that my spouse is truly regretful; if I can forgive - even eventually; if I can live with the assumed disrespect; if I stand to lose more than I can bear by leaving.

 

The only other thing that really gets to me is using the word "mistake". Oh Please. Pre-meditated, furtive, cunning, deceitful, on-going, voluntary meetings, writings, exchanges, sheduled, executed planned, long term or short term love affairs are NOT a mistake. They are evil decisions based upon emotion and desire. Let's be honest.

 

-Dazed

[whichwayisup]

A ONS is a big bad mistake. An affair is intentional. BIG difference, though the betrayal and hurt felt by the betrayed spouse is the same.

[bunset]

I don't assume any of you care to hear from a WW/OW.

Regardless, I want to applaud HN for bringing hope to some that really need it.

It's been just short of a year and a half for me and my H.

We've been through some really deep dark valleys, but we keep working it.

If, if, if - if is a killer. It uses valuable energy that is best spent on what IS.

 

Oh, yes, I was one foot out the door, so was H. Funny but we both realized that 17 years is a lot to throw away, and we both couldn't leave, because no matter where you go, there you are,

 

I see my H in a different light. I understand that this is taking a great deal of love and care to 'hang on to me'. While he is wanting to see that we can create a better, stronger M. He's still struggling with trust, and confidence. All I can do is be transparent, and honest, while being as loving as I can. We're dating again, we talk now, we talk about things that scare us, while it was swept under the rug, before.

 

I'm not saying it always works, but I am saying that you will never know until you try.

The A is over and has been a long time. Talking about the OM/MM does NOTHING for us. We must talk about US. Lots and lots of years of censorship to 'prevent conflict' has to be decontaminated. To start over with another person, in our 40s and 50s is possible, just not nearly as palatable as discovering more about the person we've shared our lives with.

This is marriage #2 for both of us. We just don't want to do it again. I don't want to hurt or give up on the man I love. The man who's fighting to keep us together. He's polished his armor and brought the horse out. I'm going to cheer for him and swoon when he looks at me.

[Integra]

Well, I might as well chime in here

as well.

 

I'm 5yrs out from my H's frelling follies. And

I can tell anyone here. That staying was/

has been the hardest thing I have ever

done in my 40yrs.. But it has turned out to

be amazing and well worth it.. My H and I have

worked our bahookies off in more ways than one.

And I can say to anyone here, without a shadow

of doubt or apprehension.. My Marriage Is Better

Now Than It Has Ever Been..

 

My M isn't better because of my H's follies.

It's better in spite of the frelling follies.

 

We've worked hard..Harder than words can

express.. We've felt more pain than words

can express.. And we've now started experiencing

happiness that we never thought was possible..

 

We had to totally start over.. Learn how to

communicate about anything and everything.

No matter how painful, gross, scarey, funny,

maddening.. It doesn't matter.. We've now

learned to communicate through it.. And it

has paid off in ways that we would have never

imagined..

 

So, for all those folks out there that have

serious doubts on whether or not a M can

make it after an A.. I'm here to tell you that

my M has made it through 1 seperation, alcoholism

and 1 very short lived (less than 5 weeks) A..

All of those things happened within the first 8 yrs

of my M.. I am about to celebrate my 14th wedding

anniversary.. And I'm celebrating it happier than

I have ever been in my marriage...

 

The truth of the matter is this.. If you

stay in a marriage after an affair.. It will

be one of the hardest things you've ever

done.. If you leave after an affair, it will be

one of the harderst things you've ever done.

With or without your spouse, a better life

is possible.. It all depends on the two people

involved, how much they want it and what

all they are willing to do to make it happen..

One partner can not make everything right

by themselves.. Both partners have to be

willing to do whatever is necessary with

a committment of 100%, or else it just won't work.

[abeliever]

Maybe this will sound like I am picking on someone but I'm really not. I was just wondering a reading these threads and the different posts that a couple of people on here are (choose my words carefully) somewhat arrogant about them being the "cheater" and ending up with MM/OM. This is my question...why are you here in Infidelity thread? If you are as HAPPY as you say why be in this thread with others who are devasted by the betrayal of their SO? I'm confused, or is anyone else wondering this? Not saying you cannot be in here I am just wondering. A bigger question when we (including me) are pouring our hearts out are you secretly laughing because you was "apart" of an affair and YOU get something sick out of it? Just a thought that keeps haunting me so why not get it out in the open and get a "discussion" going?

 

abeliever

[NoIDidn't]

To start over with another person ... is possible, just not nearly as palatable as discovering more about the person we've shared our lives with.

 

And I can say to anyone here, without a shadow

of doubt or apprehension.. My Marriage Is Better

Now Than It Has Ever Been..

 

My M isn't better because of my H's follies.

It's better in spite of the frelling follies.

 

 

Not to pick on abeliever's question of why the OW/OM post in the Infidelity section, but I thought both of these statements were great. One coming from a FWW and one from a FBW (the F being former).

 

I feel both quotes apply to my M as well. I want the man that I have been sharing my life with. The man who's children I have birthed. And A or no A, I love him INSPITE OF his many failings. And it goes both ways. I may not have cheated on him, but he probably has felt cheated at times during our M.

 

The one thing that is being emphasized in all of the Ms that are growing despite having experienced infidelity of any type regardless of who the player was (H/W), is that reconcilliation is not possible without the hard work of BOTH partners. When partners are able to say "WE", they tend to stay together and flourish, unlike the partners that constantly talk only about their own individual needs.

[Integra]

 

The one thing that is being emphasized in all of the Ms that are growing despite having experienced infidelity of any type regardless of who the player was (H/W), is that reconcilliation is not possible without the hard work of BOTH partners. When partners are able to say "WE", they tend to stay together and flourish, unlike the partners that constantly talk only about their own individual needs.

 

 

 

Here's that one common denominator pointed out and

agreed upon once again.. And I really don't think that

those of us who have been through this can emphasize

it enough... IT TAKES BOTH PARTNERS!!! If both partners

aren't in it.. It will never work.. All it will do, if one party

is desperately working and trying to hold on to the R while

the other person continues to not actively participate is

MISERY.... I do want to say this.. It's not always the FWS

who isn't throwing in their 110% to try and rebuild their

M.. Sometimes it actually is the BS who just can't do it.

For whatever reason, too painful, too resentful, can't

forgive, whatever the reason...The reason I point that out

is because people will automatically assume (and in most

cases rightfully so) that it is the WS that doesn't work

hard to R.

 

The other common denominator that I see in every

R that made it through, and made it better is

COMMUNICATION... Yep, not sexy, not always

fun.. But it is a must.. Just last night, I asked my

H if he could name one thing that has made all the

difference in our M what would it be.. He instantly

said, our communication.. I know that it really gets

old and repetitive, but it's just a fact.. If you can not

openly w/out any aprehension discuss anything and

everything w/ your partner, then there will always

be barriors in between you.. The more barriors there

are between you and your partner, the further apart

you will be.. And sadly, a large majority of the time,

we do not realize how much distance there is between

ourselves and our partners until it is too late.

 

For me personally... I did not want to R and

go back to the M I had. The only way I was

willing to R is if we were in it to make our M

better.. I refused to just hang on to what we

had.. I wanted better or nothing... Luckily, so

did my H.. Or else we wouldn't still be together

today..

[NoIDidn't]

For me personally... I did not want to R and

go back to the M I had. The only way I was

willing to R is if we were in it to make our M

better.. I refused to just hang on to what we

had.. I wanted better or nothing... Luckily, so

did my H.. Or else we wouldn't still be together

today..

 

ITA on this point! It had to be better or I was not staying to keep giving my all to it.

 

I think something else may help this thread for those looking to it for some inspiration and hope. And that is telling the honest and brutal truth about some of the things we endured to make it to this point.

 

My H didn't want to work on our M after he was discovered. He had thought about leaving independent of finding another woman to be with. He had even told her the same thing. He wasn't leaving for anyone but himself. Armed with this information, I set out to figure out how to better myself to deal with what seemed to be the eventual loss of my M and H. He wasn't willing to work with me at all on our M, so we didn't work on it for three to four months after the final D-day. So I worked on me. He took notice, not that I expected him to because it wasn't for him.

 

We then were ready for MC. It helped a lot. Our more open communication amazes both of us to this day.

[Oregon Blackberry]

Something I've wondered about, and I hope I'm not taking this thread off topic, but it seems kind of sort of relevant as understanding the OW was mentioned in the original post. Plus no one seems to be posting to what I thought was an interesting topic, so maybe I can spark it.

 

I only recently created an account here, even though I've been lurking and reading posts for quite some time, and it seems there are a fairly equal percentage of BW and OW here, but of the men that post here, there are very, very few OM, almost entirely BH or WH. I wonder what that says?

 

I have an opinion about that, but I'll keep it to myself for the moment.

It's not really the norm for men to frequent a site like this. Advice sites, etc. are more womanly-type things. Men might be on ebay looking for a good deal on power-tools, or possibly on a porn site, or they are deeply involved for 4 hours on a video game of some sort -which means they are actually using the TV, not the computer.

Women tend to get together and have their female friends and they are discussing relationships and bonding and women.

Sorry but it is a bit feminine for men that cruise this site a lot and kinda goes against a lot of masculine traits. I mean....men should be out working or out in the garage working on the car, or doing home projects....manly stuff. I would never date a man I met from Loveshack. Dating sites are different in that men do like to date, so it is normal and not unmasculine. Honestly the men you are finding on this site aren't the ones who are workaholics and top performers at work. You might have lawyers and such, but they aren't really the top ones or working for really amazing and impressive firms, and not the ones who went to Harvard law school.

This is my 2 cents.

[reboot]

It's not really the norm for men to frequent a site like this. Advice sites, etc. are more womanly-type things. Men might be on ebay looking for a good deal on power-tools, or possibly on a porn site, or they are deeply involved for 4 hours on a video game of some sort -which means they are actually using the TV, not the computer.

Women tend to get together and have their female friends and they are discussing relationships and bonding and women.

Sorry but it is a bit feminine for men that cruise this site a lot and kinda goes against a lot of masculine traits. I mean....men should be out working or out in the garage working on the car, or doing home projects....manly stuff. I would never date a man I met from Loveshack. Dating sites are different in that men do like to date, so it is normal and not unmasculine. Honestly the men you are finding on this site aren't the ones who are workaholics and top performers at work. You might have lawyers and such, but they aren't really the top ones or working for really amazing and impressive firms, and not the ones who went to Harvard law school.

This is my 2 cents.

If you really believe this drivel I feel sorry for you.

[Integra]

 

I think something else may help this thread for those looking to it for some inspiration and hope. And that is telling the honest and brutal truth about some of the things we endured to make it to this point.

.

 

 

Not only the brutal truth of what all we have gone through

to R.. But also the really, frelling hard, brutal truths of

what all led us, as couples to these life changing

situations..

 

Resentment, distance, miscommunication, non-communication,

and the rest of the laundry list of frelled up things that

happen in a M do not just happen over night.. Another

yucky brutal truth.. NONE of us got to these points

in our M's over night.. Sorry.. I know that when we

are first hit by something as brutally devastating as

infidelity, everything becomes chaotic and jumbled.

We don't know reality from fantasy, in many ways.

Our world's are turned upside down and ripped apart.

It's really hard to make an honest assessment of

all the things that have gone wrong with our M's.

It usually takes several years of looking back to be

able to make the honest assessments.. And before

anyone wants to use what I just stated as their

"see this is why so and so cheats".. NONE of the

above are reasons to cheat.. Excuses that are used

alot, but never a good reason.These are the things

that should be addressed and worked on by both partners

instead of cheating.. Sadly, though, it very rarely happens

that way.. And if you honestly don't think that you

can honestly address the problems in your M, and

I do mean HONESTLY, then get a divorce.. Don't cheat,

don't martyr yourself, don't make as many people as

you possible can miserable.. Just get a divorce....

You can't 1/2 azz work on a M.. All or nothing!!!

[NoIDidn't]

And before

anyone wants to use what I just stated as their

"see this is why so and so cheats".. NONE of the

above are reasons to cheat.. Excuses that are used

alot, but never a good reason.These are the things

that should be addressed and worked on by both partners

instead of cheating.. Sadly, though, it very rarely happens

that way..

 

 

You just stated the main reason that many BSs don't state those things on these types of forums. For one, most of us couldn't admit it to ourselves at first. And for the second, too many of the OPs would use the info to try to *enhance* their affairs. LOL.

 

But I totally agree with you. I was the queen of the angry outburst. I stopped long before the EA, but the damage was done. I made many mistakes in my treatment of my H, but none of it ever could justify the hurt that infidelity causes.

 

Many BSs don't realize it in the beginning during all of the initial confusion and hurt, but acknowledging that the marriage had *some* areas that needed improvement is the beginning of that hope after an A. If not for this marriage, then for ourselves and any future relationships.

[Integra]

You just stated the main reason that many BSs don't state those things on these types of forums. For one, most of us couldn't admit it to ourselves at first. And for the second, too many of the OPs would use the info to try to *enhance* their affairs. LOL.

 

BS's have a long way from DDay to become comfortable with these

types of "revelations".. Mainly because it's painful. And it is

really hard to try and grasp that things that one partner may

have seen as minor resentments could lead to a huge problem..

It's really hard to make that connection, and for it to make

since. But that again usually comes with much time, work,

and distance from a sistuation. If an OP thinks that information

like that is going to help them "enhance" their A's.. Then more

power to them. Because the harsh, stinky, reality is this.. Most

of the things that cause resentment and problems in a M, an OP

will never experience with the MM/MW.. They really don't have a

horse in that race.. They are not living with the AP 24/7 to be able

to experience any of the daily tripe that lead up to so many

problems within a marriage..

 

Many BSs don't realize it in the beginning during all of the initial confusion and hurt, but acknowledging that the marriage had *some* areas that needed improvement is the beginning of that hope after an A. If not for this marriage, then for ourselves and any future relationships.

 

Some M's have really huge problems that one &/or neither partner

want to adrress. And some M's have a multitude of little problems

that are a big deal to one partner and not to another.. It's a

completely crazy dynamic based on how each partner

communicates and how each partner handles conflict. But,

to really make a go at a M after something as completely

devastating as an A, both partners in the M need to not

only realize for themselves what all was going on in their M.

But both partners have to be willing to learn from their past

behaviours, understand them and be willing to work to change

them.. That is the only way to come out better in the end.

 

But again, I'm a very firm believer in if your going to give

it a second chance, it better be to make it better than

it was the first go around.. I can't understand why else

anyone would go through the pain of rebuilding a M if it

isn't in order to make it a better M all the way around.

[Tomcat33]

I can't understand why else

anyone would go through the pain of rebuilding a M if it

isn't in order to make it a better M all the way around.

 

 

Fear of being alone, fear of being rejected out in the single world, fear of starting over and not being loved again. Fear of having to compete with other single people to find love again, fear of having to face the world alone....

 

these are just a few reasons why people would rather stay in a betrayed relationship than walk away. People say they stay for "love" but I ask myself, "exactly how much do you love a human being that has taken your heart and torn it to peices? a person who has made a mockery of you and your childrend, a person who has tainted your view on other human beings and trust, a person who has spat in your face and ridiculed you the worst possible way. a person who on top of it laughed at your misfortune with a complete stranger and shared your innner most intimate secrets with them like what you had with them meant nothing at all."

How can someone still love a human being that does all those things to them? I just don't get it?!?!?

 

For some people their self esteem is so low that they would rather sacrifice their whole life to be next to someone, anyone even the person who treated them like the worst enemy like a peice of garbage, than be alone. That's some form of fear.... WOW.

[Tomcat33]

The way you described the betrayel of a marriage. Wasn't

the reality for some of us.. Some of our situations where

absolutely nothing like that.. But, I'm sure you don't want

to accept that.. I've noticed that in your post..

 

.

 

 

And please if you can then enlighten me, if the affair that happened in your marriage was not about being mocked, slapped in the face, spat on and treated like dirt what was it about? Are you trying to tell me your case was different that in your case it actually felt good, that is was about love respect and a pure union?

 

Is what I am describing that far fetched? My goodness when I was disillusioned by my ex it felt like someone had ripped my insides out and this was from am man I knew very little, only a year's worth I can't even imagine what it must feel like to be the on the receiving end of that but from a H doing that to me, the man I whom I had children with and whom I thought would be my best friend for eternity?!?!

 

If in your case it felt differently than what I described in my last post then please explain how it was different?

[Tony T]

Fear of being alone, fear of being rejected out in the single world, fear of starting over and not being loved again. Fear of having to compete with other single people to find love again, fear of having to face the world alone....

 

For some people their self esteem is so low that they would rather sacrifice their whole life to be next to someone, anyone even the person who treated them like the worst enemy like a peice of garbage, than be alone. That's some form of fear.... WOW.

 

These truths aptly put not only apply to those remaining in betrayed affairs but to any relationship where they are being abused, taken for granted, run over, spat upon, etc. FEAR and LOW SELF ESTEEM are the most dangerous characteristics to have when you're looking for love or when you've got it. People who have these should just stay under cover indoors and not seek out romance of any kind.

 

Love is not for sissies or for those with character defects. You have to be willing to fight and stick up for yourself when affronted and not back down for the reasons TC has set forth above.