Do you want to marry?

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Thanks Frannie, I see what you're saying. And I think I wouldn't be adverse to a commitment ceremony.

 

But the tradiitional vows? No way...I dont think some of them are valid anymore.

 

Silktricks - I didnt read it as Frannie necessarily being in pain, I think the position of OW bring feelings of contradictions, opens up realms of new-levels of understanding that you have to look inside yourself and figure out.

 

Openbook - you crack me up sometimes, you really do

[frannie]

Well the quicker you dump AB Smethwick or whatever his name is, the quicker you will be in a position to get married.

 

WBASmethwick, and I'm in no hurry, as I said. I'm sure you and his W have spend many a happy evening together wondering what his OW must be like... tell me again... when is she going to make a decision on 'outing' me, kicking him out, or recommiting to their marriage vows..?

 

Do tell, the suspense is killing me.

[frannie]

I think you're in pain.

 

Hmm.. actually had the best week I can remember for a long time. And most weeks are pretty good. If I was 'in pain' I certainly wouldn't choose to post here and listen to the 'woe is me my insides are shrivelling with bitterness' brigade.

 

I'm having a chit-chat with a few fellow OWs.. don't mind us.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

I think you're in pain.

 

Anyhoo, back to the discussion in hand...

 

Would those of you who would marry MM take his name? You see, after meeting his W on a number of terrifying occasions her married name "Mrs X" now runs chills through my spine in the most part. Plus, in a way, its sort of like taking over a job title from someone in the previous position, if that makes sense. Plus, well this isn't attributed only to MM, but I've always felt a bit weird about having the same married name as a mans mother. Is that being precious? I dont know, it just rings wrong with me.

 

My biggest commitment to MM would be to have children with him and I would of course want them to have his name although I'd want mine there somewhere too.

[frannie]

But the tradiitional vows? No way...I dont think some of them are valid anymore.

 

Ah, well no one has bought that up before. I don't know about vows yet. Marriage yes (dependent on the man/situation/my feelings)... what vows were said... that needs a lot of thought.

 

But when it comes down to it, the words are important if you're talking 'commitment ceremonies', generally speaking. But if you're legally getting married, there's a whole other aspect: financial especially can be a nightmare if you have your own independent income/capital.

[frannie]

Anyhoo, back to the discussion in hand...

 

Would those of you who would marry MM take his name? You see, after meeting his W on a number of terrifying occasions her married name "Mrs X" now runs chills through my spine in the most part. Plus, in a way, its sort of like taking over a job title from someone in the previous position, if that makes sense. Plus, well this isn't attributed only to MM, but I've always felt a bit weird about having the same married name as a mans mother. Is that being precious? I dont know, it just rings wrong with me.

 

My biggest commitment to MM would be to have children with him and I would of course want them to have his name although I'd want mine there somewhere too.

 

Never even really thought of it. I usually forget what his surname is anyway, and have had no run-ins with or thoughts about his wife's name. I'm a pretty old-fashioned girl and yeah, I'd take his name for the married part of my life. I'd still be Dr. so and so in my professional life, so it's no biggie.

 

And unfortunately I'm too old to be wondering about joint kids now. He has his, and we'll never have any together. Sad, but that's the way it is.

[overandout]

WBASmethwick, and I'm in no hurry, as I said. I'm sure you and his W have spend many a happy evening together wondering what his OW must be like... tell me again... when is she going to make a decision on 'outing' me, kicking him out, or recommiting to their marriage vows..?

 

Do tell, the suspense is killing me.

 

 

Oh dear, I thought we'd got over that phase....

 

Good job you're in no hurry really.

Maybe I missed something, but didn't he tell you earlier this year that he isn't leaving his wife, with whom he is probably tucked up in bed right now.

Making jokes all the time is your way of deflecting the real issue which is that he is content with his family or else he would be with you. You are envious of his wife in the sense that he chose her over you by not leaving. Where will he be at Xmas I wonder?

 

I really do wish that he would be with you, but from what you post on here it seems very remote.

Not sure why you mentioned that he doesn't have sex with you these days and then say it's no one else's business. There must be a reason.

I do know that when my xmm was feeeling guilty, pressured at home and trying to reconect with his wife, the physical side of our relationship faded away.

[OWoman]

Would those of you who would marry MM take his name? You see, after meeting his W on a number of terrifying occasions her married name "Mrs X" now runs chills through my spine in the most part. Plus, in a way, its sort of like taking over a job title from someone in the previous position, if that makes sense. Plus, well this isn't attributed only to MM, but I've always felt a bit weird about having the same married name as a mans mother. Is that being precious? I dont know, it just rings wrong with me.

 

Slight sidetrack - I'm intrigued at how many professional women remarry and keep their former husbands' names! I could understand using your own name, or taking the new husband's name, but keeping the name of your former husband... doesn't the bed get a bit crowded with ghosts of marriage past?

 

In my case, if it did land up that MM and I did have to marry, it wouldn't be an issue. His current W kept her own name, so there'd be no confusion. Maybe he'd take mine?

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Well traditionally I cant see it...

 

Do you Bride take Groom to be your husband – to live together after God’s ordinance – in the holy estate of matrimony?

 

Well, ok. I'll not get into the whole argument that vows were actually instigated by western christianised bureaucracy establishing legalities and contractual obligations to the state and the church. Lets keep this bit short as everyone will just start thinking about the buffet soon...

 

Will you love him?

 

Yes

 

Comfort him?

 

Yes. Well unless he's claiming his cold is actually flu. When its not. I'd rather humour him then

 

Honor and keep him?

 

I'll honor him. Keep him? As a prize or financially? Only if he wants to be kept and I'm okay with that. Or keep him in a cupboard under the stairs? Keep him?

 

In sickness and in health?

 

Sure, of course

 

For richer, for poorer?

 

Yes

 

For better, for worse?

 

Well it really depends what you mean by "worse". Can you give me some clarification on that? I mean worse as in, worse as not picking his underpants up off the floor every day? Or worse as in becoming the Boston strangler? It really depends...

 

In sadness and in joy?

 

Well, if I'm comforting him I guess Im comforting him in sadness, right? And who is going to say no to the joy bit?

 

To cherish and continually bestow upon him your heart’s deepest devotion?

 

Yes, as long as he's still cherishing us - its a two way street - and bestowing my hearts deepest devotion? Is that 24-7? Like when I'm putting the washing in or he's shouting at me for putting lipgloss on while I'm driving?

 

Forsaking all others keep yourself only unto him?

 

Well, yes, until I or he no longer wants to do that, if that time comes

 

As long as you both shall live?

 

Argh!!! I knew there was going to be a catch somewhere. Unfortunately, as I am savvy enough to know that nobody ever knows what life throws at them and that in no way I can predict the future, I'm going to have to pass on that one. Unless there's a disclaimer somewhere that says "Unless you both begin to make one another unhappy?"

 

However, commitment ceremony-wise...

 

"Do you Je Ne, promise to try your very best for as long as you can?"

 

Be a bit short I guess, but I suppose people wont be bored

 

Hypothetically speaking, of course

[frannie]

Oh dear, I thought we'd got over that phase....

 

Good job you're in no hurry really.

Maybe I missed something, but didn't he tell you earlier this year that he isn't leaving his wife, with whom he is probably tucked up in bed right now.

Making jokes all the time is your way of deflecting the real issue which is that he is content with his family or else he would be with you. You are envious of his wife in the sense that he chose her over you by not leaving. Where will he be at Xmas I wonder?

 

I really do wish that he would be with you, but from what you post on here it seems very remote.

Not sure why you mentioned that he doesn't have sex with you these days and then say it's no one else's business. There must be a reason.

I do know that when my xmm was feeeling guilty, pressured at home and trying to reconect with his wife, the physical side of our relationship faded away.

 

Which phase was that, the one in which you claimed you knew my MM's W and I was about to be 'outed' that you wish would fade away and be forgotten..? Sorry, I still think it bears repeating because it puts your posts into context as the ridiculous wind-ups they're obviously meant to be.

 

Yes, yes, he's tucked up in bed (actually no he isn't, right now, but that's not really important), loves her to bits, and you're right I spend my lonely evenings at the computer cracking jokes and secretly sobbing into my wine wishing he were here with me. Consider me outed if it makes you happy.

 

Yes, he did decide to stay, yes, he'll be there Christmas Day, and the Christmas after that, and you know what... I really don't mind. No, not in the slightest.

 

And your attempts to make me wonder why we're not sleeping together are really quite laughable, given that you have NO idea at all why that is. Bet you're wondering. Just give it up, and try using your energy for something more laudable than your your frankly embarrassing attempts to sow seeds of doubt in my mind about my relationship. Because you're just making yourself look desperate now.

[frannie]

Slight sidetrack - I'm intrigued at how many professional women remarry and keep their former husbands' names! I could understand using your own name, or taking the new husband's name, but keeping the name of your former husband... doesn't the bed get a bit crowded with ghosts of marriage past?

 

In my case, if it did land up that MM and I did have to marry, it wouldn't be an issue. His current W kept her own name, so there'd be no confusion. Maybe he'd take mine?

 

Hmm I suppose that might happen. Depends when one got ones qualifications or whatever. I'm assuming mostly a woman would do that when still single, but of course that's not necessarily the case.

 

I'll always be Dr. _ maiden name, whatever my Mrs. title would be.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Slight sidetrack - I'm intrigued at how many professional women remarry and keep their former husbands' names! I could understand using your own name, or taking the new husband's name, but keeping the name of your former husband... doesn't the bed get a bit crowded with ghosts of marriage past?

 

In my case, if it did land up that MM and I did have to marry, it wouldn't be an issue. His current W kept her own name, so there'd be no confusion. Maybe he'd take mine?

 

I totally agree, OWoman, unless perhaps her original name was something like "Humperdinck" lol. I guess, thats fair enough. I NEVER want to change my name. Its who I am! Weren't the only other people who changed their surnames slaves to show their ownership? Slaves and women? No, I'll keep my own name thanks lol.

 

As for you Frannie, I would only suggest you dont take MMs name and use it with your Dr title if MMs surname is something like "Evil", "No" "Who" "Dre" or "LivingstoneIpresume"

[overandout]

Which phase was that, the one in which you claimed you knew my MM's W and I was about to be 'outed' that you wish would fade away and be forgotten..? Sorry, I still think it bears repeating because it puts your posts into context as the ridiculous wind-ups they're obviously meant to be.

 

Yes, yes, he's tucked up in bed (actually no he isn't, right now, but that's not really important), loves her to bits, and you're right I spend my lonely evenings at the computer cracking jokes and secretly sobbing into my wine wishing he were here with me. Consider me outed if it makes you happy.

 

Yes, he did decide to stay, yes, he'll be there Christmas Day, and the Christmas after that, and you know what... I really don't mind. No, not in the slightest.

 

And your attempts to make me wonder why we're not sleeping together are really quite laughable, given that you have NO idea at all why that is. Bet you're wondering. Just give it up, and try using your energy for something more laudable than your your frankly embarrassing attempts to sow seeds of doubt in my mind about my relationship. Because you're just making yourself look desperate now.

 

 

How do you know he's not tucked up in bed with her--do you have a web cam?

 

You were the one who volunteered that he wasn't having sex with you.

I offered up my own reasons why mm in general, and my xmm in particular, stopped having sex.

Nope, I truly am not interested in why he's not sleeping with you these days, and not sure why you brought it up.

The seeds of doubt are in your own mind but if you really don't mind that he isn't leaving then fine, but the tone of your posts suggest otherwise.

Maybe it's just an indication of how you are settling for being someone you don't really want to be.

 

As for desperate, that is funny coming from someone who pleaded with her mm not to finish the affair, when he probably expected that an OW with an ounce of self respect would walk.

 

Gooodness I wonder if he checks this forum still. He might see that deep down you still wants more from him, and one day would like to get married. That might account for lots of things...

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Making jokes all the time is your way of deflecting the real issue which is that he is content with his family or else he would be with you.

 

Sorry overandout but is that something you figured out in your 11 year affair? We're all in generally the same situation, why single out Frannie?

 

Plus, I make jokes all of the time. Because I am funny. No other reason lol.

 

Lets lighten it up, this thread is supposed to be a light look at hypothetical marriages, not a individual inspection of the choices of one OW.

 

Lastly, my guess is Frannies MM has had a XXL penis enlargement and they cant have sex until he heals. Yep, there I go again, making jokes and deflecting my woe.

[OpenBook]

Well traditionally I cant see it...

 

Do you Bride take Groom to be your husband – to live together after God’s ordinance – in the holy estate of matrimony?

 

Well, ok. I'll not get into the whole argument that vows were actually instigated by western christianised bureaucracy establishing legalities and contractual obligations to the state and the church. Lets keep this bit short as everyone will just start thinking about the buffet soon...

 

 

:D:D Je Ne that was PRICELESS. This one's a "print-out-er"!!

[frannie]

How do you know he's not tucked up in bed with her--do you have a web cam?

 

You were the one who volunteered that he wasn't having sex with you.

I offered up my own reasons why mm in general, and my xmm in particular, stopped having sex.

Nope, I truly am not interested in why he's not sleeping with you these days, and not sure why you brought it up.

The seeds of doubt are in your own mind but if you really don't mind that he isn't leaving then fine, but the tone of your posts suggest otherwise.

Maybe it's just an indication of how you are settling for being someone you don't really want to be.

 

As for desperate, that is funny coming from someone who pleaded with her mm not to finish the affair, when he probably expected that an OW with an ounce of self respect would walk.

 

Gooodness I wonder if he checks this forum still. He might see that deep down you still wants more from him, and one day would like to get married. That might account for lots of things...

 

I know he isn't tucked up in bed with her because he's emailing me. Unless they have some very odd sleeping arrangements I haven't considered, I'd say that was fairly conclusive.

 

It's ME who isn't sleeping with HIM. Do get your facts straight. I bought it up because, as you're well aware, it was in a thread in which we were discussing whether affairs were all about sex. And someone said, try not having sex with him for a while and let's see how long it lasts. As I said, I'm not having sex with him and hey, it's lasting. You know that as well as I do, but hey, if it suits your agenda to pretend you've forgotten I'm sure you'll find someone here who will believe you.

 

If there was no doubt in my mind about men and whether they lie I'd count myself pretty naive. But actually I'm a realist. So yes, of course people lie. Hey I bet you've told a few in your time even. Not that I can remember any offhand... oh, I won't bring them up again in case you blush

 

Yes, certainly I'm having a relationship with a man who is doing and contemplating things I wouldn't do myself (cheating, and divorcing), but you know, I can accept those things about him... he's a human being after all, not the perfectionist I beat myself up to be.

 

The thing is, OAO... you come across as someone who is far, far too keen to break something up between him and I... you're sure that I'd run a mile if confronted with certain things, if he were reading here, if she found out. And actually, whatever you say really reveals so much about YOU, and is so untrue of him and I, that I am just left shrugging my shoulders.

 

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if he read anything you post here, or I post here. I'm absolutely sure of his feelings for me. I just don't think you get it at all. In fact, I know you don't. But I'm sure you'll carry on trying to spook me. Your comments make no sense to me, and have no impact. One day you'll realise that... maybe...

[frannie]

Well traditionally I cant see it...

 

Do you Bride take Groom to be your husband – to live together after God’s ordinance – in the holy estate of matrimony?

 

Hold on... you don't have to say those words. What about civil ceremonies..?

[silktricks]

Hmm.. actually had the best week I can remember for a long time. And most weeks are pretty good. If I was 'in pain' I certainly wouldn't choose to post here and listen to the 'woe is me my insides are shrivelling with bitterness' brigade.

 

I'm having a chit-chat with a few fellow OWs.. don't mind us.

 

I'm glad you aren't in pain.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

:D:D Je Ne that was PRICELESS. This one's a "print-out-er"!!

 

Lol, it has been brought to my attention that humour is apparently a deflection of an OWs pain...well, if I haven't got humour, I guess I've still got all my own teeth. Thats surely something to be happy about...

 

Wait? Let me guess?Having own teeth is just a representation of the lack of self-belief of the OW - she feels she has nothing to offer other than her appearance.

 

Lol, I've got to stop I'm laughing at my own jokes now...Im still giggling at the thought of Frannie being called Doctor Who!

 

Little things please little minds...

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Hold on... you don't have to say those words. What about civil ceremonies..?

 

To be honest Frannie, I cant remember the vows at civil ceremonies. I'm usually comparing the bridesmaids to see who is the most unhappy with their dresses lol

[frannie]

I'm glad you aren't in pain.

 

Me too, been there done that.

 

And for those interested, yes, most of the affair has been EXTREMELY painful. And no, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Just for the record.

 

But yes, now, I'm happy and not in pain.

[overandout]

I know he isn't tucked up in bed with her because he's emailing me. Unless they have some very odd sleeping arrangements I haven't considered, I'd say that was fairly conclusive.

 

It's ME who isn't sleeping with HIM. Do get your facts straight. I bought it up because, as you're well aware, it was in a thread in which we were discussing whether affairs were all about sex. And someone said, try not having sex with him for a while and let's see how long it lasts. As I said, I'm not having sex with him and hey, it's lasting. You know that as well as I do, but hey, if it suits your agenda to pretend you've forgotten I'm sure you'll find someone here who will believe you.

 

If there was no doubt in my mind about men and whether they lie I'd count myself pretty naive. But actually I'm a realist. So yes, of course people lie. Hey I bet you've told a few in your time even. Not that I can remember any offhand... oh, I won't bring them up again in case you blush

 

Yes, certainly I'm having a relationship with a man who is doing and contemplating things I wouldn't do myself (cheating, and divorcing), but you know, I can accept those things about him... he's a human being after all, not the perfectionist I beat myself up to be.

 

The thing is, OAO... you come across as someone who is far, far too keen to break something up between him and I... you're sure that I'd run a mile if confronted with certain things, if he were reading here, if she found out. And actually, whatever you say really reveals so much about YOU, and is so untrue of him and I, that I am just left shrugging my shoulders.

 

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if he read anything you post here, or I post here. I'm absolutely sure of his feelings for me. I just don't think you get it at all. In fact, I know you don't. But I'm sure you'll carry on trying to spook me. Your comments make no sense to me, and have no impact. One day you'll realise that... maybe...

 

The not sleeping thing with you for 3 months shows that he's not just after one thing right:p

I think I did say earlier that it's no skin off his nose to wait a bit until things get back to normal and as I have absolutely no idea why, then its kind of meaningless to comment, don't you think?

See, you can't have it all ways; generalise about something and then wonder why it hasn't been commented on. AND no I don't want to know...

[frannie]

To be honest Frannie, I cant remember the vows at civil ceremonies. I'm usually comparing the bridesmaids to see who is the most unhappy with their dresses lol

 

Goes something like this:

 

"This place in which you are now met has been duly sanctioned according to law for the celebration of marriages. Before you are joined in matrimony I have to remind you of the solemn and binding character of the vows you are about to make. A marriage according to the law of this country is the union of one man with one woman voluntarily entered into for life for the exclusion of all others."

 

The Declaration:

The groom and then the bride repeat after the Superintendant Registrar:

 

I declare that I know of no legal reason why I (...)may not be joined in marriage to (...)

 

I ..() take you (...) to be my wedded wife/husband"

 

Or the registrar may just ask the couple:

 

Are you free to lawfully to marry (...) ?

 

The couple answer in turn:

 

"I am"

 

 

You can then add your own words/declarations etc. if you like.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Ok, I googled it. Hey, Ive got a marathon tomorrow, I have NOTHING else to do tonight apart from spend money on useless items on Ebay and post on LS...

 

This place in which you are now met has been duly sanctioned according to law for the celebration of marriages. Before you are joined in matrimony I have to remind you of the solemn and binding character of the vows you are about to make. A marriage according to the law of this country is the union of one man with one woman voluntarily entered into for life for the exclusion of all others."

 

The Declaration:

The groom and then the bride repeat after the Superintendant Registrar:

 

I declare that I know of no legal reason why I (...)may not be joined in marriage to (...)

 

I ..() take you (...) to be my wedded wife/husband"

 

Or the registrar may just ask the couple:

 

Are you free to lawfully to marry (...) ?

 

The couple answer in turn:

 

"I am"

 

 

Humph, they gotta get that "for life" clause in somehow haven't they. They even forgot the better for worse thing - least I can constantly refer to my vows in arguments saying "But you said you'd accept me for being better AND worse!" There's no lee-way with these ones!

[frannie]

The not sleeping thing with you for 3 months shows that he's not just after one thing right:p

I think I did say earlier that it's no skin off his nose to wait a bit until things get back to normal and as I have absolutely no idea why, then its kind of meaningless to comment, don't you think?

See, you can't have it all ways; generalise about something and then wonder why it hasn't been commented on. AND no I don't want to know...

 

oooh... maybe I should just not sleep with him forever... that will 'prove' that it's not all about sex... right..? is that what I should do, OAO..? Please advise me, for I am lost and look to you for guidance.

 

Meanwhile, back in reality...