To The BS's - Don't Blame The OW

[OpenBook]

Don't fool yourself into thinking its always some horny unhappy-at-home MM looking for tail on the side. Sometimes its simply a matter of a woman wanting and pursuing your husband, and convincing him to do it. Even the happiest of men can sometimes be tempted by the thrill of the new. The excitement of a woman who wants him badly enough to pursue him. Particularly since they are being told they won't be caught. Some bottom feeders like the type I used to be are more than happy to exploit that.

 

Lucrezia, thanks for posting. This is the part I'm having a hard time with. I just cannot imagine a happy H straying. I can imagine him being tempted, but not straying. He would be too scared to lose what he's got - his W, who makes him so happy.

 

I also have trouble accepting that "bottom feeder" OW's are as common as you say they are. I'm sure they're out there, but I think they are the exception rather than the norm.

 

In my own personal experience, I get hit on a LOT more by MM than I do by single guys. And I'm SICK of it. I wish they would just leave it alone already. I want to scream at their wives, "Lose weight!! Go to the gym!! Victoria's Secret is having a sale!! And for God's sake -- keep a tighter leash on your H - PLEASE!!!"

 

OpenBook - the type of OW I mentioned are the ones who BS tend to think are the types that went after their husbands, and I expect your post was borne from that. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't - but they do make it harder for the OW who really were the ones who were pursued and lied to by MM.

 

And this is why I smell HYPROCISY in the BS's vindictive and demeaning posts to the OW. THEY DON'T CARE what the OW's situation is. To them, ALL OWs are evil, whorish, homewrecking, ... ad nauseum. Instead of looking at themselves and their own M, they paint themselves as angelic victims and unleash their wrath and frustration -- WHICH SHOULD BE DIRECTED AT THEIR H'S -- out on the OW's here on LS who are in pain and seeking help. There's nothing I detest more than a bully. And I will continue to call them out on it.

[Jinnah]

LucreziaBorgia, I am proud of you. You sound like such a wonderful, grounded person and that is great. I'm glad you realized what was going on and made the effort to change you life... you deserved better than that.

 

*Round of applause from me.

[lindya]

Honestly? At the time? Invincible. I think any OW who was like I was feels that way. You feel a sort of cold, mercenary power that knows no shame or guilt.....Can they change? Yes. But they have to want to, and make an effort to.

 

...given the heady feeling a person can get from power, it's easy to see why an OW who's getting a sense of power in those situations wouldn't be motivated to give them up.

 

I don't think I consciously tried to live her experience, but I ended up doing it. Perhaps it was in some way a latent attempt to try to understand her and her motives? Dunno. All I know is that its over, done with and I'll never go that route again.

 

So it sounds as though at some point something (or maybe just a natural progression in your own thinking) pushed you into facing up to a conflict between who you were being, and who you wanted to be. Maybe, too, you stopped feeling that you needed that sense of power being an OW gave you....or perhaps it started feeling like a false sense of power.

 

A lot of what I read on this section of the forum seems to relate to people wanting to get a greater sense of power in their lives.

[Jinnah]

OpenBook, in some cases the BS may have played a part, but you have to realize that is not true for every case (or even most). Sure there are miserable marriages out there, but they should work on it then. No one deserves to be cheated on. They made a commitment to each other ("for better of for worse") and it still applies in bad times.

 

When a OW/OM steps in that just destroys the chances and this can be devastating, especially if children are involved. The marriage could have worked and the affair puts a stop to that. Most of the married people I know say they have hit rough patches in their marriages, but they stuck with it and, in the end, were glad they did. Imagine if one would have cheated and that destroyed the chance of having the beautiful marriage they worked hard for. They would have missed out on something special. The spouses need to realize that and honor their commitment until they either work it out (which they can if they try hard enough) or BOTH decide to call if quits.

 

OW/OM need to stay away until that happens. Life isn't a fairytale and it isn't always perfect (we all know that) and it is unrealistic to expect marriage to be a perfect fairytale at all times either.

 

I hope this helps. No hard feelings.

[OpenBook]

Most OW are more than happy to experiment sexually and do whatever he asks because in the OW's mind, she's 'one-upping' the wife. She's not. Because as soon as he takes the dog collar off her neck or you take the rubber sheets off the bed, he's STILL going home to wifey, isn't he?

 

This is quite a generalization, don't you think? Most of the OW's I've seen here on LS don't have any opinion about the W one way or the other. If they do, it's anguish and sympathy toward her. The A isn't about the W. It's about the MM.

 

When you're jumping around like a trained seal, bending over backwards to please your mate or husband and you find out he cheated on YOU, let's see what your thinking will be THEN, shall we?

 

Who said anything about trained seals?!? If you truly have been good to your H, and he cheats anyway, then you have no room to blame anyone else for staying in your sorry situation. And I can tell you right now what my thinking would be -- he would see the pillars of his life crash around him so fast it would make his head spin.

[norajane]

Lucrezia, thanks for posting. This is the part I'm having a hard time with. I just cannot imagine a happy H straying. I can imagine him being tempted, but not straying. He would be too scared to lose what he's got - his W, who makes him so happy.

 

One of my friends cheats on his wife while on business trips. He travels a lot, meets the OW's everywhere...on flights, at the hotel, conferences, stewardesses, etc. He adores his wife and his kids. Totally happy at home. Loves spending time with his kids and his wife. Would be devastated if his wife found out and he lost her.

 

Why does he cheat? He has issues. Mommy issues, mostly. He's rebelling against a controlling mother, via cheating on his wife. He knows this, his therapist knows this.

 

I think people here forget that a cheater is inherently flawed inside - they cheat instead of dealing with their issues. Cheating may have zero to do with the wife and how the marriage is. Cheating may have zero to do with OW pursuing or not. Cheating almost always has everything to do with the person cheating, how they handle conflict, problems, and their own internal, personal issues.

[OpenBook]

Because as soon as he takes the dog collar off her neck or you take the rubber sheets off the bed, he's STILL going home to wifey, isn't he?

 

Rubber sheets?? That's a new one on me. It sounds painful. How does that work?

[nittygritty]

The bottom line is that the cheating husband is emotionally unavailable to both women. He is taking what he wants from them and leaving both women to suffer with wanting for him, in order to feed his weak ego. If he continues to keep sitting on the fence, then he likes the situation as is.

 

I agree with LB that there are predatory women who specifically target married men. I also agree that there are wives that don't meet the needs of their spouse but until either the divorce is final or the OW and/or W accepts the situation as is or chooses to leave, then it is all just limbo, drama, turmoil and heartache.

[OpenBook]

The grand irony in all this is.... what starts out as a rationalization for entering into an affair becomes a trap of the OW's own making. Because now it is SHE who is responsible for 'keeping a man happy'.

 

How do you figure?? The OW isn't responsible for anything. She hasn't made any vows whatsoever to anyone. She can walk away scot-free.

 

Frankly I couldn't make heads or tails out of your post, or the conclusions you drew. But you're right - you are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

[OpenBook]

If he continues to keep sitting on the fence, then he likes the situation as is.

 

He is sitting on that fence for one reason, and one reason only -- because THE WIFE IS LETTING HIM.

[nittygritty]

He is sitting on that fence for one reason, and one reason only -- because THE WIFE IS LETTING HIM.

 

As long as your okay with that then there is no problem.

[OpenBook]

I don't blame the xOW for pursuing my WH for three years and him falling for her advancements. I don't blame her for saying she needed to talk to him and her telling him she was attracted to him and kissing him. I blame myself 100% for him cheating and not keeping him happy. I blame myself b/c I always was upset and angry b/c he chose to go out 5 or 6 days/nights of the week playing sports, drinking w/ his friends, and coming home late at night stumbling drunk. I blamed him for not being a H and a father and expecting me to raise our children alone. I was wrong for nagging and bitching at him. He got sick of it, decided that the OW wouldn't expect him to be w/ her every night. They didn't have to worry about the children to raise, the bills, the mortgage. I should have NEVER nagged at him for being gone all the time. I never should have told him if his drinking didn't stop and he spent more time at home I was leaving him. I was wrong, it was my fault he cheated. He had every right to go and be w/ the xOW. She didn't make demands on him like I did. Oh if only I had been more of a doormat he would have never had an A. It's all my fault! I deserved to be cheated on! Thank you for making me see the error of MY ways and that I deserved to be cheated on b/c I didn't make him happy and the OW showed him that she could.

 

Mopar, I don't know how you put up with that. Stories like yours are the reason why I run screaming from the mere idea of getting married again.

[OpenBook]

One of my friends cheats on his wife while on business trips. He travels a lot, meets the OW's everywhere...on flights, at the hotel, conferences, stewardesses, etc. He adores his wife and his kids. Totally happy at home. Loves spending time with his kids and his wife. Would be devastated if his wife found out and he lost her.

 

Why does he cheat? He has issues. Mommy issues, mostly. He's rebelling against a controlling mother, via cheating on his wife. He knows this, his therapist knows this.

 

I think people here forget that a cheater is inherently flawed inside - they cheat instead of dealing with their issues. Cheating may have zero to do with the wife and how the marriage is. Cheating may have zero to do with OW pursuing or not. Cheating almost always has everything to do with the person cheating, how they handle conflict, problems, and their own internal, personal issues.

 

And you're friends with this guy??

[mopar crazy]

Mopar, I don't know how you put up with that. Stories like yours are the reason why I run screaming from the mere idea of getting married again.

Well, he doesn't do it anymore, that was b4 the A. And, if you couldn't tell I was being saracstic. I don't blame myself for the A. He wanted A D. He claimed at the time it had nothing to do w/ her but he does admit know she had a large part of wanting out of the M.

 

Six months after I demanded the drinking and going out all the time stopped he started an A w/ the OW. It lasted about 3-5 months then he called me saying he made a mistake and wanted to R. Took a lot of prayers for me to decide what to do.

 

I blame him more than I blame her.

[Ladyjane14]

How do you figure?? The OW isn't responsible for anything. She hasn't made any vows whatsoever to anyone. She can walk away scot-free.

 

I disagree that she's not responsible for anything. IMO, she has a societal obligation to respect others. That is, if she, herself, wishes to be respected in turn. How can she blame other people for not respecting her when she so blatantly fails to respect other people?

 

Sure, it's true she can walk away anytime she likes. But should she opt NOT to do so... by your math, it's then her job to keep him "happy". Because if she doesn't keep him hap-hap-happy enough... he's going to cheat and she's going to deserve it, right?

 

 

 

He is sitting on that fence for one reason, and one reason only -- because THE WIFE IS LETTING HIM.

 

That's only true if she knows what he's up to.

If he's keeping her in the dark and covered in bullsh*t like a mushroom, how's she supposed to be "letting him"???

 

But... for the sake of discussion, let's say she knows all about the affair and is indeed "letting him". In that case, I think it's reasonable to assume she's got her own reasons for allowing the behavior... and those reasons wouldn't be any of the OW's business.

[frannie]

Honestly? At the time? Invincible. I think any OW who was like I was feels that way. You feel a sort of cold, mercenary power that knows no shame or guilt. I recognize it in some other OW. I see it here on LS from time to time. They are absolutely unapologetic in what they do, and nothing you say or do will change them.

 

OK I may be way off track here, and can't be bothered to look it up but... don't you also say you cheated on your H, have an OM now... or are separated but still married and your OM is waiting for you (I can't remember the details). I am just wondering, could you put your 'predatory person' comments into context.

 

Apologies if I've misremembered anything or are painting you in a bad light, just wanting to open up the discussion.

 

I'm asking this because I think it's important. OW as a group (if there could be such a thing) can't be categorised as 'predaory' and 'non-predatory' or lacking or having emotion, morals, whatever any more than other human beings involved in relationships. That just does NOT make sense.

 

Just as there are 'predatory' OW, or ones only out for themselves, there are MM with exactly the same characters (probably more so, since they are the ones lacking something in their lives and needy of A.N.Other), and W and H (or 'BS') with exactly the same characters.

 

So, essentially the point I'm making... yes, you were a 'predatory OW'... but there are 'predators' or needy people out there in all sorts of relationships... and when a predatory/needy person isn't being an OW, they will be a spouse, or a single person. We're not all born with 'OW' 'BS' or 'single person' printed on our heads.

[frannie]

As for the other OW who aren't predators, and who fall victims to MM who lie about their marital status - I do feel sorry for them.

 

Again, doesn't this just emphasise that you see the world as divided into 'predators' and 'victims'..? Yes, that was the thrust of the OP (and very divisive that could turn out to be), but humanity isn't really divided as such... only in certain views of the world. Are you not just revealing how you view people..? We're all 'predators' or 'victims'..?

[KenzieAbsolutely]

=OW/OM are just there to benefit off of the situation which is bad in and of itself but not the cause of the actual cheating.

 

i agree with you on this one, but any OW who says "it takes two to tango in a marriage" must realize it also "it takes two to tango to cheat". most OWs refuse to believe that they have any responsibility in the matter, because it is the husband who should know better. in reality, it works both ways.

[LucreziaBorgia]

OK I may be way off track here, and can't be bothered to look it up but... don't you also say you cheated on your H, have an OM now... or are separated but still married and your OM is waiting for you (I can't remember the details). I am just wondering, could you put your 'predatory person' comments into context.

 

My OW/cheater days predate my marriage and separation. The whole predator thing has no context in that situation.

 

I didn't cheat on my H. H came to me a few years ago, and asked me for an open marriage. So, I gave him one, and he began seeing other people. I didn't. He felt bad for me, so he encouraged me to see someone too - a friend of his. I started seeing this guy, and over the course of a couple of years H and I decided to go our separate ways romantically, while preserving the sense of family that we have.

 

H and I separated, but lived together for a while so that he could save up for a townhouse he wanted. A few months ago, he got the townhouse and moved out. So, now we are officially (by state law anyway) separated (in my state you have to be living in separate residences to be considered officially separated, and you have to be in separate residences for a year and a day before you can file for divorce).

 

OM and I are still together, and he and I are looking at our own townhouse to buy, probably sometime in the next two weeks or so - we want to be in before I have my surgery. OM and H are still friends (and in fact are business partners), and H and I are still close and love each other very much (though not romantically or sexually). Never was there a time where anything was hidden. No lies were told, there was never any need to lie. H and I always had a very clear understanding about the situation, and were open with each other about it the whole time.

 

It was unorthodox, but it worked out for all parties involved.

[mopar crazy]

i agree with you on this one, but any OW who says "it takes two to tango in a marriage" must realize it also "it takes two to tango to cheat". most OWs refuse to believe that they have any responsibility in the matter, because it is the husband who should know better. in reality, it works both ways.

I agree. If the OW knows he is a MM then she is partly to blame too. She is not an innocent party in the A.

[frannie]

OpenBook, in some cases the BS may have played a part, but you have to realize that is not true for every case (or even most). Sure there are miserable marriages out there, but they should work on it then. No one deserves to be cheated on. They made a commitment to each other ("for better of for worse") and it still applies in bad times.

 

When a OW/OM steps in that just destroys the chances and this can be devastating, especially if children are involved. The marriage could have worked and the affair puts a stop to that.

 

I agree with this to a great extent.

 

I think that it's up to each of the partners to work on the marriage. And if a MM (or MW) steps out of the marriage, then they can't with any degree of truth blame that decision on the spouse. Yes, the relationship may be in tatters, whatever... it is entirely on the cheater's head that they took that decision.

 

But I'm not sure that having an affair always condemns the marriage. IF the marriage is workable at all then an affair (or rather the discovery of such) can often be the catalyst to that reconciliation. More often than not after a d-day the WS stays, and there is then at least some chance of the marriage working out. Of course then it is down to the married couple to really look at their relationship, work on it, and perhaps build something better.

 

But this is all by the by... The only one responsible for cheating is the cheating party. Everyone else is just someone they're relating to. But of course there could be mitigating circumstances... like um... hypnotism, having your brain sucked out... errrr... errr...

[OpenBook]

I disagree that she's not responsible for anything. IMO, she has a societal obligation to respect others.

 

Again, you are entitled to your own opinion. Especially about societal obligations.

 

Sure, it's true she can walk away anytime she likes. But should she opt NOT to do so... by your math, it's then her job to keep him "happy".

 

No, actually it's YOUR math, not mine. And I can't follow your math. It defies logic.

 

That's only true if she knows what he's up to.

If he's keeping her in the dark and covered in bullsh*t like a mushroom, how's she supposed to be "letting him"???.

 

If she is allowing herself to be treated like a mushroom, then she is letting it happen.

 

But... for the sake of discussion, let's say she knows all about the affair and is indeed "letting him". In that case, I think it's reasonable to assume she's got her own reasons for allowing the behavior... and those reasons wouldn't be any of the OW's business.

 

She is opening herself up WIDE OPEN to make it the OW's business when she comes on here trashing the OW. If you're going to dish it out, you had better be prepared to take it.

[Ladyjane14]

Again, you are entitled to your own opinion. Especially about societal obligations.

 

I know.

 

No, actually it's YOUR math, not mine. And I can't follow your math. It defies logic.

 

Is this, or is it not, your comment:

If the BS was keeping her H happy at home, he would not be hitting on the OW.

Because if it is... by your math, it's the wife's responsibility to keep the husband happy. It's only reasonable to assume that if he gets a NEW wife or a NEW significant other, it would then be her responsibility to keep him happy.

 

If she is allowing herself to be treated like a mushroom, then she is letting it happen.

 

If she doesn't KNOW, she's not "allowing" anything, is she?

 

She is opening herself up WIDE OPEN to make it the OW's business when she comes on here trashing the OW.

 

When did our hypothetical betrayed spouse "trash" an OW?

 

If you're going to dish it out, you had better be prepared to take it.

 

I didn't know we were "dishing out".

Tony told us to play nice in the sandbox... so, that's what I've been doing. Believe me... if I ever do start "dishing out", you'll be able to tell the difference right away.

[norajane]

And you're friends with this guy??

 

Sure - even cheaters have friends.

 

I'm neither his wife nor his OW, so I can enjoy his good qualities and give him grief about his bad ones.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

... by your math, it's the wife's responsibility to keep the husband happy. It's only reasonable to assume that if he gets a NEW wife or a NEW significant other, it would then be her responsibility to keep him happy.

 

No-one can be responsible for the happiness of another, and in that, neither the W nor the OW nor the New Wife nor anyone else can take responsibility for "keeping the husband happy".

 

However, I've read some of your posts in length LJ, and it seems the main focus of what makes a marriage work is prioritising the needs of their significant other, the needs of the marriage, higher than their own individual needs. In some instances in affairs, that prioritisation has not been in existence in either partner. Yet it appears that in some cases I've witnessed on LS, an affair overules the previous misdemeanours of the BS, catapulting the BS into the realm of "victim" wiping the slate clean of the non-prioritisation of some BP's. And thats what I have a problem with.

 

OPs facillitate an affair and responsiblity needs to be accepted with exception to those who do not know that the MP is in fact, married. However, some BPs also need to responsiblity that a breakdown in their marriage and the pursuance of an affair was in someway due to the lack of prioritisation of those needs that weren't being met. And I commend BS's who are able to see that it may take two to tango, but it takes three people to make a human triangle.

 

"Keeping her husband happy" in my opinion can be high-browed up to "Prioritising the needs of my husband and my marriage"