To The BS's - Don't Blame The OW

[OWoman]

Unfortunately, there are predatory OW out there who target, pursue, persuade, and seduce. I know, because I was one of those types in a few of my OW experiences.

 

Yeh, me too.

 

Not only did I not care if they were married or involved, I did everything in my power to convince them that it was ok to do and that they wouldn't get caught, and eventually got what I wanted from them.

 

Hmm - but not quite this. For me, their being married was part of the deal - I expressly wanted something part-time, and their being married was the only way I could be sure that they weren't going to start with excessive demands and smothering. Not that it was infallible, but it was at least a start.

 

But I certainly didn't try to convince them it was OK, or that they wouldn't get caught - I was always very clinical about it, made my proposition with my terms very clearly set out, and told them to think long and hard about it - about the risks and costs to themselves (and anyone else they might choose to factor in) and not just the benefits, and to get back once they'd thought it through. I was always very clear that I wasn't going to make any decisions for them, they needed to decide for themselves and live with the consequences of their decisions, either way. And that if they were going to do guilt, forget it. I wasn't up for being some dirty secret, like a coke habit or a porn addiction, that needed to be confessed and absolution sought. If they weren't reconciled to the decision they were taking, fully informed of consequences and prepared to live with their actions and any fall out - forget it. I'm nobody's social worker.

 

I found As that I initiated on my terms far more manageable and contained - after it runs its course, both parties can walk away and continue their lives without everything crashing down around them. As where MM hit on me always ended on a sour note - either I felt I was being used as an escape hatch from an unhappy M, or the MM started wanting more from the A than I was prepared to invest, or I just got bored because too much power was invested in me - so I'd land up dumping the MM pretty quickly.

 

Interesting thread - but I find the concept of "blame" a pretty weird one. If everyone takes responsibility for their own actions, and deals with the consequences in a rational way, there should be no need for "blame".

[pricillia]

I just wonder that in some instances that men cheat because they can not be with just one person all of thier lives, that even though they are married for whatever reason they still want something more, not they are missing anything in thier marriage or in thier life it is just simply that they love women or love sex, or love the additional attention for what ever reason.

 

Yes I understand that this is a choice that MM or MW would make or BF or GF would make in a relationship and depending on the intircate details of the relationship in question that the extra relationship could be good or the extra relationshipe could be bad.

 

I personally do not believe in sleeping around nor do I believe in being intiamte with someone just for the hell of it because it feels good or because it gets me off. When I give myself to a man it is because I have strong feelings for him, there is something there that is unique and special, wht I am trying to say is that sex/intamacy is a deep emotional connection that should not be taken for grantid.

 

Now with that said I know that there are some men out there and some women for that matter that just like the physical aspect of sex, the excitment of cheating and the allure of newness that they can not get from thier current lover/friend

 

more to come later on this but I got interrupted

[IpAncA]

Personally, as an OW I do not blame the W for her H cheating. And I do not think she should blame me either. Its his decision, its his marriage, its his choice. Yes of course I am enabling him but I do not know her, I havent said vows to her, he has.

I actually dont think about the W very much, its not a competition or 'blame game' to me. I just view it that their M has been in big trouble, way before I arrived & what do I 'owe' a complete stranger? Im really not meaning to be harsh, but its not like Im her friend & am betraying her personally.

 

What?!

 

i agree with you on this one, but any OW who says "it takes two to tango in a marriage" must realize it also "it takes two to tango to cheat". most OWs refuse to believe that they have any responsibility in the matter, because it is the husband who should know better. in reality, it works both ways.

 

I agree. The only way I wouldn't put blame on the OW is if she actually didn't know she was involved with a MM, ended it on the spot when she found out and was discusted by it. But if she knew and still continued to keep the affair going, well then yeah she's to blame.

[pricillia]

I also know that there are some men and women out there that do not cheat, have the opportunity but do not go through with it because they know that they have something strong with thier signifigant other.

 

I also know that none of us strong opinions and all don't know everything about everything as we all learn and grow with different experiences.

 

I did not want to be with a MM, I did not persue him infact I did not know that he was married, he decieved me, at that point I accepted the fact that it was over and was ready to move on. Something however kept me in the relationship with him, I am still trying to figure that out.

 

I am not blaming myself nor am I blaming the BS. I know that men want attention from women and women want attention from men, in most cases that does not stop when you are married, it is just that some people make the choice not to let it go that far.

[Ladyjane14]

No-one can be responsible for the happiness of another, and in that, neither the W nor the OW nor the New Wife nor anyone else can take responsibility for "keeping the husband happy".

 

EXACTLY.

Which is why it makes ZERO sense for OM/OW to use the state of the marriage or the MM/MW-cheater's happiness quotient within it as a basis for rationalizing the affair.

 

However, I've read some of your posts in length LJ, and it seems the main focus of what makes a marriage work is prioritising the needs of their significant other, the needs of the marriage, higher than their own individual needs.

You're right. I do believe in prioritizing ENs within the marriage, but I also believe that this is something which is between the two spouses, and not for others to use as a justification for inserting themselves into someone else's business and private life.

 

While it's true that the MM/MW-cheater may have put out the invitation, it's really not his/hers to offer singularly... because s/he shares his private life with another who has NOT given permission.

 

I also believe that there's a difference between EN fulfillment and MAKING someone happy. One is possible to a significant extent, the other is not.

 

EN fulfillment sets the parameters whereby it's easier for your spouse to CHOOSE happiness, but ultimately he's still responsible for his ability, or lack thereof, to make that choice. You just can't MAKE somebody choose to be happy. Sometimes, you can do EVERYTHING just right and still have a partner who, for whatever reason, fails to select happiness. Could be depression, could be narcissism, could be anything.

 

I find that EN-fulfillment is always a hit and miss proposition. This isn't something that people can get right with 100% accuracy. If you look hard enough, you can find some rough spots in almost any marriage, and because relationships are more fluid than static... over the course of time ENs will change and there will be ups and downs.

 

It's also not something that the spouse who's lacking fulfillment has no responsibility in, because we're each responsible for ASKING our partner to meet our truest needs and then taking appropriate action if they consistently refuse. Cheating, of course, is NOT the appropriate action IMO, because it only exacerbates the problems and doesn't solve them.

 

 

Yet it appears that in some cases I've witnessed on LS, an affair overules the previous misdemeanours of the BS, catapulting the BS into the realm of "victim" wiping the slate clean of the non-prioritisation of some BP's. And thats what I have a problem with.

 

Actually, I have noted quite a few threads in which the betrayed partner is unwilling or unable to honestly assess their own behavior within the marital construct prior to the affair. That's sad.

Because it's a bar to true recovery when they do that.

[frannie]

I agree. The only way I wouldn't put blame on the OW is if she actually didn't know she was involved with a MM, ended it on the spot when she found out and was discusted by it. But if she knew and still continued to keep the affair going, well then yeah she's to blame.

 

'to blame' for what..? For the married person cheating..?

 

That only reveals your view of human beings... that other people can lead them astray and that individuals are therefore in some way not responsible for their own actions.

 

You may want to believe that, but that's only your opinion. I think people should be responsible for their OWN actions, whatever they are.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

It's also not something that the spouse who's lacking fulfillment has no responsibility in, because we're each responsible for ASKING our partner to meet our truest needs and then taking appropriate action if they consistently refuse. Cheating, of course, is NOT the appropriate action IMO, because it only exacerbates the problems and doesn't solve them.

 

I agree, because we are all responsible for our own happiness and therefore asking for fulfillment is part of fulfilling our happiness-quota. Yet, I also see that in some situations, unfulfilled spouses request again and again their unfulfilled needs to be met. I'm not talking about sex here, either (although I'm sure that is one of many unfulfilled needs in some marriages). I'm talking about support, trust, honesty, respect, all of the biggies. Yet the BS overlooks these unfulfilled needs and prioritises his or her own needs - thats not just "going through a bad patch". That's prolonged self-service. The unfulfilled spouse recognises self-service and decides to find another way to fulfil their needs and another person enters the arena and needs are met, whether it be some or all.

 

Thats not right - I know. But I can understand it (obviously). They seek something outside their marriage and they have to take the responsibility for that, along with the OP who facillitates the relationship. Yet the BS also has to look deep within and look. Did they really listen when the cracks start to appear? Did they assume happiness because they were happy that their needs were being met? In my opinion, some posters who generally say "My marriage was great! It was the skanky OP who came along, and pursued my partner" are farthest from rebuilding their marriages or creating a marriage from the unfulfilled relationship they had before. Reneging responsibility of their own actions that contributed to WS looking outside the marriage for their own needs.

 

Actually, I have noted quite a few threads in which the betrayed partner is unwilling or unable to honestly assess their own behavior within the marital construct prior to the affair. That's sad.

Because it's a bar to true recovery when they do that.

 

I agree, hence where the criticism of OP comes from - blame has to sit somewhere with them, because blame doesn't sit well with their status of "victim". Unfortunately, if there was a forum solely for "Married People who Cheat on LS", I think these betrayed posters who are unable to take a really good look inside and question their part, will remain on the Other Person forum shouting the odds...

 

And they are victims...but maybe they're not the only ones...

[silktricks]

Yet the BS also has to look deep within and look. Did they really listen when the cracks start to appear? Did they assume happiness because they were happy that their needs were being met? In my opinion, some posters who generally say "My marriage was great! It was the skanky OP who came along, and pursued my partner" are farthest from rebuilding their marriages or creating a marriage from the unfulfilled relationship they had before. Reneging responsibility of their own actions that contributed to WS looking outside the marriage for their own needs.

 

And they are victims...but maybe they're not the only ones...

 

I think this is very true. Upon D-Day, if the couple agrees to try to work things out, the BS better do some very thorough self-examination and work on their issues, as well as the MP work on their issues, or the marriage is doomed. It may limp along, but it will not be a true union, it will continue to be a sham with one or both of the partners dissatisfied.

 

I personally think that what often leads to the BS treating the spouse poorly is often the same thing that has led the MP to stray. Bitterness and unfulfilled needs. Neither partner in the marriage has been toting their load.

 

It's human nature though (unfortunately) to not want to look inside and see what we ourselves have done to contribute to our pain. We (BS, OP and MP) want to blame someone else. We usually feel (and often rightfully so) that if we take ANY of the blame then someone else will happily give us ALL of the blame - usually we don't want to shoulder that. In the end it does no one any good to avoid responsibility, that only leads to staying "stuck in a rut", but until a person is willing to look at themselves and say "this part was my part" and hear their partner say "and this part was my part", it's just more of the same merry-go-round.

[IpAncA]

'to blame' for what..? For the married person cheating..?

 

That only reveals your view of human beings... that other people can lead them astray and that individuals are therefore in some way not responsible for their own actions.

 

You may want to believe that, but that's only your opinion. I think people should be responsible for their OWN actions, whatever they are.

 

Why do you think someone would blame an OW?

[frannie]

Why do you think someone would blame an OW?

 

Because it's easier than holding your partner (if a BS) or yourself (if a WS) accountable..?

 

I don't know... I asked you the question, 'to blame' for what?

[IpAncA]

Because it's easier than holding your partner (if a BS) or yourself (if a WS) accountable..?

 

I don't know... I asked you the question, 'to blame' for what?

I already answered it in post 53.

[Mino]

Personally, as an OW I do not blame the W for her H cheating. And I do not think she should blame me either. Its his decision, its his marriage, its his choice. Yes of course I am enabling him but I do not know her, I havent said vows to her, he has.

I actually dont think about the W very much, its not a competition or 'blame game' to me. I just view it that their M has been in big trouble, way before I arrived & what do I 'owe' a complete stranger? Im really not meaning to be harsh, but its not like Im her friend & am betraying her personally.

I think some BSs blame the OW because its easier than blaming their H. They have this idea that the OW is some kind of man eating serial seducer that dragged their man away & he couldnt resist. LOL. You cant drag a man away from a happy marriage. Its his choice what he does & if he choses to cheat then the W has no one to blame but him. The only exception would be if she KNOWS the OW, then obviously its different.

Also, if a BS takes him back & he does it again, then sorry but I wouldnt be hugely sympathetic. As the saying goes- [sIZE=-1]''Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!'' [/sIZE][/quote could not have said it better myself, you took the words right out of my mouth

[frannie]

I already answered it in post 53.

 

"I agree. The only way I wouldn't put blame on the OW is if she actually didn't know she was involved with a MM, ended it on the spot when she found out and was discusted by it. But if she knew and still continued to keep the affair going, well then yeah she's to blame."

 

'to blame.. ' 'put the blame on'...

 

No... don't see anything there apart from the words 'blame'. Do you mean to blame for someone else cheating..? Or for 'the affair' happening..? Or what..? You didn't actually say what the blame was for at all.

[Mino]

I don't blame the xOW for pursuing my WH for three years and him falling for her advancements. I don't blame her for saying she needed to talk to him and her telling him she was attracted to him and kissing him. I blame myself 100% for him cheating and not keeping him happy. I blame myself b/c I always was upset and angry b/c he chose to go out 5 or 6 days/nights of the week playing sports, drinking w/ his friends, and coming home late at night stumbling drunk. I blamed him for not being a H and a father and expecting me to raise our children alone. I was wrong for nagging and bitching at him. He got sick of it, decided that the OW wouldn't expect him to be w/ her every night. They didn't have to worry about the children to raise, the bills, the mortgage. I should have NEVER nagged at him for being gone all the time. I never should have told him if his drinking didn't stop and he spent more time at home I was leaving him. I was wrong, it was my fault he cheated. He had every right to go and be w/ the xOW. She didn't make demands on him like I did. Oh if only I had been more of a doormat he would have never had an A. It's all my fault! I deserved to be cheated on! Thank you for making me see the error of MY ways and that I deserved to be cheated on b/c I didn't make him happy and the OW showed him that she could.

No Mopar, its notyour fault. sounds like your m had problems and your husband didnt want to listen to you to fix your M. Women dont nag, they just want to talk about whatever the problem is. Men label that as nagging. which I think is stupid. Your h was lazy in his M because he didnt want to fix it, its Not your fault.... its his

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

I think this is very true. Upon D-Day, if the couple agrees to try to work things out, the BS better do some very thorough self-examination and work on their issues, as well as the MP work on their issues, or the marriage is doomed. It may limp along, but it will not be a true union, it will continue to be a sham with one or both of the partners dissatisfied.

 

I personally think that what often leads to the BS treating the spouse poorly is often the same thing that has led the MP to stray. Bitterness and unfulfilled needs. Neither partner in the marriage has been toting their load.

 

It's human nature though (unfortunately) to not want to look inside and see what we ourselves have done to contribute to our pain. We (BS, OP and MP) want to blame someone else. We usually feel (and often rightfully so) that if we take ANY of the blame then someone else will happily give us ALL of the blame - usually we don't want to shoulder that. In the end it does no one any good to avoid responsibility, that only leads to staying "stuck in a rut", but until a person is willing to look at themselves and say "this part was my part" and hear their partner say "and this part was my part", it's just more of the same merry-go-round.

 

I agree silktricks. Although I think people don't WANT to blame others, mostly they HAVE to blame others otherwise some responsibility would sit with them. And I understand, that when OPs and BSs are in terrible pain, its too much to expect them to initially automatically shoulder blame - because in a way they then become responsible for their own pain and that would be realising their own masochism. But eventually, they have to stop rewriting their own history and accept some responsiblity in some cases.

[IpAncA]

That only reveals your view of human beings... that other people can lead them astray and that individuals are therefore in some way not responsible for their own actions.

 

You infered that from my post? Sounds like your confusing my post with something else. When did I mention people weren't responsible for their own actions. I never said that I put blame on the OW fully.

[frannie]

You infered that from my post? Sounds like your confusing my post with something else. When did I mention people weren't responsible for their own actions. I never said that I put blame on the OW fully.

 

Not 'fully' to blame for whatever it is you blame them for. What are they to blame for if not for other people's actions..?

 

But hold on, before we chop it down into smaller quotes and come-backs, I should just bow out of this because I'm not really into this kind of 'debate'. No offence, just if you can't state what it IS you're meaning, I won't be guessing.

[silktricks]

But eventually, they have to stop rewriting their own history and accept some responsiblity in some cases.

I personally would like to see them accept some responsibility in all cases , but I guess you're right. There must be some cases where the responsibility lies completely with one person.

[Havn_a_life]

Concerning my H and his A with the OW...I can say, he dealt with the after effects of the A, long after she was out of the picture, which was dday. he never saw her again, and apart from a few conversations and one confrontation with me, she has never entered our M again, physically.

I think the xOW got off very clean.

Did I put blame on her for the A. He*ll yes. She was 50% to blame. She knew he was M, and she went straight on.

Was it her first A with a MM? No. Was it my H's first A? Yes. And the only one he's had. He learned a very tough lesson, as well.

 

So, I don't think all BWs put the blame on the OWs. They put their fair share of the blame on the OW. They should. It doesn't matter if the OW made no vows to the W. Bull sh*it! That's pure kah-kah! and lame to boot!

I promise you, the H deals with alot more stuff than the xOW ever does.

[IpAncA]

I personally would like to see them accept some responsibility in all cases , but I guess you're right. There must be some cases where the responsibility lies completely with one person.

Have an example?

 

She knew he was M, and she went straight on.

 

Exactly.

[OpenBook]

I agree. The only way I wouldn't put blame on the OW is if she actually didn't know she was involved with a MM, ended it on the spot when she found out and was discusted by it. But if she knew and still continued to keep the affair going, well then yeah she's to blame.

 

You infered that from my post? Sounds like your confusing my post with something else. When did I mention people weren't responsible for their own actions. I never said that I put blame on the OW fully.

 

Uh, OK then.

[pricillia]

Blame, no one wants to take the blame for cheating or causing someone to cheat.

 

I do think however that if MM or MW cheats on thier spouse that divorce or separation would be the next step, but things are not always that black and white.

 

Even though that person strayed there is still an attachment that is in place, how do you know when is the right time to break it and make the decision to move on.

[OpenBook]

It doesn't matter if the OW made no vows to the W. Bull sh*it! That's pure kah-kah! and lame to boot!

 

Call it whatever you want. It's the truth. The OW made no vows to the W. The MM did.

 

I promise you, the H deals with alot more stuff than the xOW ever does.

 

I can only imagine.

[Havn_a_life]

Call it whatever you want. It's the truth. The OW made no vows to the W. The MM did.

 

 

 

I can only imagine.

 

You can very well imagine. lol

Only, it does get better, for a H and W who love each other.

Love and forgiveness are powerful things.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

I personally would like to see them accept some responsibility in all cases , but I guess you're right. There must be some cases where the responsibility lies completely with one person.

 

I think the only situation where only ONE person is fully responsible is where MP cheats where there are truly NO problems in the M and only within himself/herself and he cheats with someone who doesnt know of his true marital status. Yet those who claim "There were truly NO problems in our marriage" sometimes leads me to believe that the BP just hasn't noticed them unless they have really looked.

 

Even when WSs are quick to exclaim "Its me not you!" I think they sometimes using a clever get out clause. Because they too are not stating the actual things that lead them to an affair, their unfulfillment, the fact that things are wrong and might remain so as they are too quick to plaster over the cracks. They are just holding their hands up and wishing the confrontation over. How can a marriage be rebuilt if the rehabilitative affect of addressing previous unfulfillment is not addressed?

 

In my mind, we're all somewhat responsible with the focus being on the cheating person. Thats why I dont understand the blame game too well.