To The BS's - Don't Blame The OW

[silktricks]

This is way off topic silk, where is the the avar pic from????? do you know what mountain?

Mt. Rainier, Washington State

[OWoman]

It seems clear from your thread that you are expecting a level of exclusivity from your A with the MM, but that you also don't necessarily believe in exclusivity normally. Your sitch is the perfect example of having beliefs of one thing, but actually behaving totally different.

 

I, myself, can not live with such cognitive dissonance. If my actions no longer were consistent with my beliefs, one of the two would have to change.

 

No, not expecting - neither from MM, nor from myself. I don't expect it - but that's what's happening. I also find the cognitive dissonance difficult - for myself more than for him (he's very much a one-woman man - he's transferred all his attention, sexual interest, affection etc from the W to me, like a switch being flipped). I feel like I SHOULD be behaving differently - more like Lizzie, which is my natural mode - but I'm not. And that both scares the hell out of me and makes me question everything, all the time, even more than I'm naturally inclined to do.

[veronese]

MM cheats with OW - not the other woman's fault for being there but IS her fault for choosing to cheat with him

 

MM cheats with OW - not wife's fault she got fat or whatever, not his fault he got bald and needed an ego boost

 

MM cheats with OW - it IS his fault, HIS choice, but it's OW fault and choice to join in surely? If OW refuses his advances he can't cheat?

 

MM cheats with OW-leaves wife - not wife's fault for not being good enough. Not OW fault for being there. No-one's fault really, he's finally done the right thing.

 

MM cheats with OW-stays with wife - not OW fault for not being good enough. Not wife's fault for being there. No-one's fault really, he's choosing to stay as opposed to cheat. Not just his choice though, wife has to be in agreement too.

 

So why then, do so many OW lament and object when MM chooses to stay with wife? Not the wife's fault. Nor the OW's. They've got nothing to do with MM's choices in life apparently. Nevertheless when MM stays with his wife the OW frequently has something negative or derogatory to say about his reasons for doing so and regularly 'blame' the wife for using underhand tactics and emotional blackmail.

 

Seriously, this eternal quest for absolution is very tiresome. BWs normally DO blame the OW in part for the affair but invariably place most of the blame on their Hs. But I don't expect some of you to register the second part of that sentence.

 

Without an OW a MM can't have an affair can he? Maybe he'll find some other mischief to get up to but he can't very well have an affair all by himself CAN HE?? Therefore the OW IS partially to blame for the affair. Not as much as MM of course (he made the vows, is betraying the wife, blah di blah di blah blah). But even though he's the one most at fault, OW's involvement means she's at fault too.

 

If MM robbed a bank at gunpoint, maybe shot a few people while he was at it, then ran out to a car where OW was waiting to drive him away from the scene, would OW be blameless in the crime? Admittedly if she hadn't have been waiting in the car he wouldn't have been able to get away but even so, she didn't rob the bank or kill anyone did she so why should she be blamed????!!

[lost4ever]

Seriously, your argument is If there were no other women, my husband wouldn't cheat???? You feel your husband is such a creature of habit that he has no control of any thoughts or feeling other then the ones that come from between his legs??? I am offened and I'm not even a man.

 

"frequently has something negative or derogatory to say about his reasons for doing so and regularly 'blame' the wife for using underhand tactics and emotional blackmail"

 

I never said you can't hate the decision that was made, so let the negative or derogatory remarks about his reasons for doing so fly.....9still boils down to HIM

 

as regards to the regularly "blaming" the wife for using underhand tactics and emotional blackmail.....I know it happens, my husband does it to me all the time...We do not have children so he don't have the trump card, but if he did; I can only imagine! It's not the wifes, its the BS in general, they are in a very emotional stage...(here comes the part where I piss off a great deal of people, ready)

Most people that do the cheating work outside of the home, The ones being cheated on are stay at home spouses. the ones inside the home (majority) do not have the skills to function in society, education, experience, social skills ect. They feel they can not live without the other, so the pain caused by a potential divorce is "life threating" in their mind... self preservation kicks in and they beg, regardless of the consequences to mental health for the other to stay even though it was proven without a doubt that the person doesn't have your best well being in mind.

[reboot]

I was being sarcastic Reboot.

Oops... sorry.

[Havn_a_life]

Seriously, your argument is If there were no other women, my husband wouldn't cheat???? You feel your husband is such a creature of habit that he has no control of any thoughts or feeling other then the ones that come from between his legs??? I am offened and I'm not even a man.

 

"frequently has something negative or derogatory to say about his reasons for doing so and regularly 'blame' the wife for using underhand tactics and emotional blackmail"

 

I never said you can't hate the decision that was made, so let the negative or derogatory remarks about his reasons for doing so fly.....9still boils down to HIM

 

as regards to the regularly "blaming" the wife for using underhand tactics and emotional blackmail.....I know it happens, my husband does it to me all the time...We do not have children so he don't have the trump card, but if he did; I can only imagine! It's not the wifes, its the BS in general, they are in a very emotional stage...(here comes the part where I piss off a great deal of people, ready)

Most people that do the cheating work outside of the home, The ones being cheated on are stay at home spouses. the ones inside the home (majority) do not have the skills to function in society, education, experience, social skills ect. They feel they can not live without the other, so the pain caused by a potential divorce is "life threating" in their mind... self preservation kicks in and they beg, regardless of the consequences to mental health for the other to stay even though it was proven without a doubt that the person doesn't have your best well being in mind.[/quote]

 

 

You are right about some couples, but not all.

Anyone can get a job and work, so skills like dealing with society,education, etc. isn't worth considering. Unless the betrayed spouse was a hermit.

I think some spouses who have been cheated on will want to reconcile because of the love they feel, not because of the financial aspect or the "I'll be all alone" thing. Not all, but some.

This is just my opinion, as your statement was yours, you understand.

[reboot]

MM cheats with OW-- Not wifes fault she got fat (or whatever)

 

MM cheats with OW/ Leaves wife-- Not wife's fault for not being good enough

Wow... you don't seriously believe that people only cheat because of some failing in their spouse do you? He cheated because his wife got fat? Because she wasn't good enough? Good grief, that's some serious issues you have there.

[luvmy2ns]

You and you alone are to blame for yours and nobody else's actions. We can not make people love us, we can not make people fall out of love with us, we can not make people be faithful and we can not make people stray... If My husband cheats on me, he cheated...HE CHEATED, that is it...his fault....not my fault, not the other womens fault...HIS. same goes with me if I cheat.....MY FAULT. If my husband beats me.....HE BEAT ME...his fault...not mine....If I am late to work...I am late to work..it is my fault, not my husband who didn't set the alarm, not my child who couldn't find there cheerleading uniform...MY FAULT...what is so hard to understand about this concept? You may not like the inpact other people's actions have on your well being, but that would be YOUR faut, YOU let them have that impact on you

 

So this means that if some punk rides by your driveway on his bike and smashes your mailbox with a baseball bat, it's YOUR fault that you're angry about it.

[Ladyjane14]

Most people that do the cheating work outside of the home, The ones being cheated on are stay at home spouses. the ones inside the home (majority) do not have the skills to function in society, education, experience, social skills ect. They feel they can not live without the other, so the pain caused by a potential divorce is "life threating" in their mind... self preservation kicks in and they beg, regardless of the consequences to mental health for the other to stay even though it was proven without a doubt that the person doesn't have your best well being in mind.

 

Huh????

 

Honest to God... I just don't even know where to start.

In fact, I don't think I will. My carpal tunnel can't stand the pressure.

[serial muse]

I never said you can't hate the decision that was made, so let the negative or derogatory remarks about his reasons for doing so fly.....9still boils down to HIM

 

Well, not really - it may be couched in "he sucks for giving in to her demands and not pursuing his true love," but it's really just a veiled insult at his wife, who is the one making those demands, apparently.

 

as regards to the regularly "blaming" the wife for using underhand tactics and emotional blackmail.....I know it happens, my husband does it to me all the time...We do not have children so he don't have the trump card, but if he did; I can only imagine! It's not the wifes, its the BS in general, they are in a very emotional stage...(here comes the part where I piss off a great deal of people, ready)

Most people that do the cheating work outside of the home, The ones being cheated on are stay at home spouses. the ones inside the home (majority) do not have the skills to function in society, education, experience, social skills ect. They feel they can not live without the other, so the pain caused by a potential divorce is "life threating" in their mind... self preservation kicks in and they beg, regardless of the consequences to mental health for the other to stay even though it was proven without a doubt that the person doesn't have your best well being in mind.

 

It's not so much that this will piss people off as that it's factually just not true (that most people being cheated on are stay-at-home). I know that it's seductive to think this, because in a sense saying something so easy and straightforward appears to offer a way to "predict" cheating, or even to prevent it. But the sad truth is, it's just not the case. After all, some people (largely men in this case) say they cheat because their wives are too busy, too caught up in their careers. There's just no catch-all, no prophylactic, and easy statements like this don't help much, by implying that the wife should somehow alter her lifestyle, one way or the other.

 

The only real prophylactics are communication within the relationship, for which both partners are responsible, and a sense of honor, I suppose, about not entering into a side relationship behind your partner's back.

[silktricks]

Most people that do the cheating work outside of the home, The ones being cheated on are stay at home spouses. the ones inside the home (majority) do not have the skills to function in society, education, experience, social skills ect. They feel they can not live without the other, so the pain caused by a potential divorce is "life threating" in their mind... self preservation kicks in and they beg, regardless of the consequences to mental health for the other to stay even though it was proven without a doubt that the person doesn't have your best well being in mind.

 

What's that old saying? All generalizations are generally wrong? Of the people I have known personally who have been cheated on, every one works (including myself). Again, of the people I have know personally who have cheated, about 2/3's of those people have worked outside the home and 1/3 have worked in the home (my own husband is one of those 1/3). So does that mean that those 1/3 fit your mold of not being able to deal with society, not having social skills and being afraid? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure that I could come up with an explanation of cheaters that sounds credible. Accurate? Probably not, but credible sounding.

 

Now, before you get all upset yourself, I realize that you used the word most, and I also realize that most people I know work outside the home, as I do. I don't know that there is any way to have an accurate statistical assessment of WS and BS, but to make a generalization based upon nothing but our own experience or our own ideas is usually rather short-sighted.

 

There are many reasons for trying to work out the kinks in a marriage that led to one of the partners cheating. It is probably true that one of those reasons is what you are suggesting, but to assume that it is accurate in most cases IMO exposes a prejudice on your part against BS who choose to work on the marriage and at the very least attempt to forgive the straying partner. Real honest to the bone forgiveness is difficult, but is possible if both of the partners are willing to put in the energy to resolve the problems that existed in the marriage prior to the infidelity.

 

I find it sorrowful that the people on LS for the most part have so little ability to understand the real power of love. I've seen the disparagement of the BS worded in a variety of ways, this is just the latest. I'd like to add that I didn't beg my husband to stay - he wanted to stay, he hoped I would let him stay and worked hard to show that he was sincerely regretful for what he had done. If we couldn't have worked things out I would have left. I would have been incredibly sad about it, but things happen in life that make us sad. Life goes on and sadness abates, that's just life. I'm glad that we were able to work out our problems, the choice I made to forgive is not the best choice for everyone. It was the best choice for me and for my husband.

[lost4ever]

So does that mean that those 1/3 fit your mold of not being able to deal with society, not having social skills and being afraid? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure that I could come up with an explanation of cheaters that sounds credible. Accurate? Probably not, but credible sounding

 

It's not so much that this will piss people off as that it's factually just not true (that most people being cheated on are stay-at-home).

 

My intention of the stay at home vs. work point was not the cheating part, it was the using guilt as a means to get the betraying spouse to stay.

 

So this means that if some punk rides by your driveway on his bike and smashes your mailbox with a baseball bat, it's YOUR fault that you're angry about it.

 

Thats right, I do not blame him for my life being over I blame him for hitting my mailbox (if my life is over because of it, that is my fault) and I certainly do not blame his parents for the rest of my life because the raised the evil little brat that ruined my life.

 

Wow... you don't seriously believe that people only cheat because of some failing in their spouse do you? He cheated because his wife got fat? Because she wasn't good enough? Good grief, that's some serious issues you have there. Today 10:10 AM

 

You didn't even read the post, you just decided to jump in not knowing what the H*ll is going on...

 

You are right about some couples, but not all.

Anyone can get a job and work, so skills like dealing with society,education, etc. isn't worth considering. Unless the betrayed spouse was a hermit.

I think some spouses who have been cheated on will want to reconcile because of the love they feel, not because of the financial aspect or the "I'll be all alone" thing. Not all, but some.

This is just my opinion, as your statement was yours, you understand

 

And I agree, there will be some that stay for love, again, my point with the statement are the ones that use guilt tactics (and OW use these too) the OMG I can't live without you, I'll kill myself, How could you do this to me ect.

[luvmy2ns]

But here's the thing: Most find lying, sneaking, and cheating a reprehensible trait. BOTH parties engaged in that (the MM and the OW), so many of us find them both reprehensible. They are guilty of lying, sneaking, and cheating. Ick.

[silktricks]

So does that mean that those 1/3 fit your mold of not being able to deal with society, not having social skills and being afraid? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure that I could come up with an explanation of cheaters that sounds credible. Accurate? Probably not, but credible sounding

 

It's not so much that this will piss people off as that it's factually just not true (that most people being cheated on are stay-at-home).

 

My intention of the stay at home vs. work point was not the cheating part, it was the using guilt as a means to get the betraying spouse to stay.

 

 

But even there, you are assuming first that people who are stay at home have poor self-esteem and second that they are more likely to use guilt to convince the WS to stay if he wants to leave (obviously the 3rd assumption is that the WS really does want to leave).

 

The only person in my particular triad who attempted the guilt trick was the OW. She worked too. So based on that I could say that OW normally work and therefore have poor self-esteem due to their exposure in the work place and are more likely to use guilt to keep the MM when he chooses to leave. It wouldn't be true, but I could say it. There may be some women who would fit that, but just because there is a person or two who fits does not make it a valid generalization.

 

I just think you've made an assumption, built on that assumption and never taken the time to think through the validity of it - namely that there is no validity.

[OWoman]

But here's the thing: Most find lying, sneaking, and cheating a reprehensible trait. BOTH parties engaged in that (the MM and the OW), so many of us find them both reprehensible. They are guilty of lying, sneaking, and cheating. Ick.

 

OK, to whom have I lied, where have I sneaked and whom have I cheated, as a matter of interest?

 

My MM and I are openly a couple, so there's no sneaking. I've made no commitments to anyone, so there's no cheating. And I've lied to no one about our A.

 

I'm sure you still find me "reprehensible" though. Just not sure how your "logic" works?

[precious1357]

i do not believe i am personally to blame for MM's cheating on his W. sure i allowed things to progress as they did. i could have stopped at any time (if my heart had allowed it), but sometimes it is harder to sacrifice your feelings for some stranger when you see this man in front of you that cares for you. and maybe at first you think you can keep it under control and keep it on a friendly basis. then things change and it seems to be out of your hands, and this man is still there, wanting to see you, talk to you, and you have been alone for so long, and you think-is this stranger's feelings so much more important than your own feelings at this point?

 

i chose (maybe selfishly) my feelings.

I totally agree. I find NC harder and harder. We have been "found out" by his family (not see together, just hints that something is going on). I love him so much and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he loves me. Marriages can be very difficult to "end".

[serial muse]

OK, to whom have I lied, where have I sneaked and whom have I cheated, as a matter of interest?

 

My MM and I are openly a couple, so there's no sneaking. I've made no commitments to anyone, so there's no cheating. And I've lied to no one about our A.

 

I'm sure you still find me "reprehensible" though. Just not sure how your "logic" works?

 

OWoman, I'm not calling you "reprehensible," but I have to take issue with your statement that there's no sneaking. Yes, there is. His wife doesn't know. No matter how else it gets dressed up, or who else knows, there is still lying going on to the only person who really matters or would really care. It just doesn't matter who else you've told; that's window dressing. Not sneaking = all three parties know what's going on.

 

If she called, would you tell her the truth? Have you discussed that with him?

[precious1357]

Your not reprehensible. Your human!!! God loves us ALL!!!!

[luvmy2ns]

Your not reprehensible. Your human!!! God loves us ALL!!!!

 

A human with reprehensible qualities. I stand corrected.

[luvmy2ns]

OK, to whom have I lied, where have I sneaked and whom have I cheated, as a matter of interest?

 

My MM and I are openly a couple, so there's no sneaking. I've made no commitments to anyone, so there's no cheating. And I've lied to no one about our A.

 

I'm sure you still find me "reprehensible" though. Just not sure how your "logic" works?

 

So you're saying his W knows about you and is fine with the arrangement? If you say, "Yes," then a further question: Did she tell you she knows, or did he tell you she knows?

[lost4ever]

Divorce Statistics Resource

[COLOR=#0080c0]Impact Of High [COLOR=#0000ff]Divorce[/COLOR] Statistics On Women[/COLOR]

You can see that there's practical value in learning more about divorce. Can you think of ways to apply what's been covered so far? According to studies, women are more likely to suffer from the effects of rising divorce statistics as compared to men.

 

Studies show that women often bear the financial consequences of a divorce. A lot of women quit their jobs when they get married and have children. After staying in the home for sometime, these women fall behind their counterparts when it comes to career development. In fact, a lot of middle-aged women who are forced to go back into the workforce after a [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] find it hard to land a descent job because they lack the necessary expertise. Note that very few stay at home moms keep abreast with the use of technology while taking care of the kids and the home that they end up ill equipped to handle office work. What is really sad is that most of these women do not even have enough confidence in themselves to assert their right to equal employment that they end up working in menial jobs.

Aside from the financial impact of high divorce statistics on women, the high [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] statistics is also to blame for the poor quality of life of many women in the country today. Studies show that women are generally slower at recovering from a divorce. While there are some women who bounce back easily after a divorce, most women take months or even years to recover from a [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] and go on with their lives. The recovery from the [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] is especially slow for women who have been homemakers for so long. Sometimes it's tough to sort out all the details related to this subject, but I'm positive you'll have no trouble making sense of the information presented above.

 

 

Eighty percent of the divorces in this country are unilateral, rather than truly mutual, decisions."

Frank F. Furstenberg, Jr. and Andrew J. Cherlin, Divided Families: What happens to Children When Parents Part (Cambridge Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1991), 22. Cited on page 9 of[COLOR=#0000ff]The Abolition of Marriage, by Maggie Gallagher[/COLOR]

The traditional breadwinner/homemaker model has two significant drawbacks.

First, if the couple should divorce, mothers typically experience a sharp

decline in economic status. Often they descend into poverty, and take their

children with them. Nearly 40 percent of divorced mothers are poor. And even

if the children of divorce do not end up in literal poverty, they are less

likely to reach their parents' social and economic level or obtain a college

education.

 

Most of the time this is the case, most stay at home women know this is the case, so they stay in the marriage.

[reboot]

My wife is a stay at home mom. She's the one had the affair, not me. How does that fit your pretty little picture?

[serial muse]

Divorce Statistics Resource

[COLOR=#0080c0]Impact Of High [COLOR=#0000ff]Divorce[/COLOR] Statistics On Women[/COLOR]

You can see that there's practical value in learning more about divorce. Can you think of ways to apply what's been covered so far? According to studies, women are more likely to suffer from the effects of rising divorce statistics as compared to men.

 

Studies show that women often bear the financial consequences of a divorce. A lot of women quit their jobs when they get married and have children. After staying in the home for sometime, these women fall behind their counterparts when it comes to career development. In fact, a lot of middle-aged women who are forced to go back into the workforce after a [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] find it hard to land a descent job because they lack the necessary expertise. Note that very few stay at home moms keep abreast with the use of technology while taking care of the kids and the home that they end up ill equipped to handle office work. What is really sad is that most of these women do not even have enough confidence in themselves to assert their right to equal employment that they end up working in menial jobs.

Aside from the financial impact of high divorce statistics on women, the high [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] statistics is also to blame for the poor quality of life of many women in the country today. Studies show that women are generally slower at recovering from a divorce. While there are some women who bounce back easily after a divorce, most women take months or even years to recover from a [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] and go on with their lives. The recovery from the [COLOR=#0000ff]divorce[/COLOR] is especially slow for women who have been homemakers for so long. Sometimes it's tough to sort out all the details related to this subject, but I'm positive you'll have no trouble making sense of the information presented above.

 

 

Eighty percent of the divorces in this country are unilateral, rather than truly mutual, decisions."

Frank F. Furstenberg, Jr. and Andrew J. Cherlin, Divided Families: What happens to Children When Parents Part (Cambridge Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1991), 22. Cited on page 9 of[COLOR=#0000ff]The Abolition of Marriage, by Maggie Gallagher[/COLOR]

The traditional breadwinner/homemaker model has two significant drawbacks.

First, if the couple should divorce, mothers typically experience a sharp

decline in economic status. Often they descend into poverty, and take their

children with them. Nearly 40 percent of divorced mothers are poor. And even

if the children of divorce do not end up in literal poverty, they are less

likely to reach their parents' social and economic level or obtain a college

education.

 

Most of the time this is the case, most stay at home women know this is the case, so they stay in the marriage.

 

But...this has nothing to do with affairs. Specifically, the point you made earlier, and to which BS have responded, was that most men having affairs work, and most women who are betrayed don't. Which is demonstrably not true.

 

It sounds like the point you really want to make is that if the betrayed spouse (a woman, in this case) also happens to be a SAHM, then she may be more likely to choose to stay married for financial reasons, because she has fewer resources. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but it certainly seems more plausible than the previous premise.

 

That doesn't have anything to do with whether she's more likely to be cheated on, however.

[lost4ever]

It sounds like the point you really want to make is that if the betrayed spouse (a woman, in this case) also happens to be a SAHM, then she may be more likely to choose to stay married for financial reasons, because she has fewer resources. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but it certainly seems more plausible than the previous premise.

 

So does that mean that those 1/3 fit your mold of not being able to deal with society, not having social skills and being afraid? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure that I could come up with an explanation of cheaters that sounds credible. Accurate? Probably not, but credible sounding

 

It's not so much that this will piss people off as that it's factually just not true (that most people being cheated on are stay-at-home).

 

My intention of the stay at home vs. work point was not the cheating part, it was the using guilt as a means to get the betraying spouse to stay.

 

And I agree, there will be some that stay for love, again, my point with the statement are the ones that use guilt tactics (and OW use these too) the OMG I can't live without you, I'll kill myself, How could you do this to me ect.

 

 

My previous post was obviously stated in the wrong way (by me)....The only reason I said anything about the stay at home "mom" (in this case)

Was to say the person that stays home is the one who uses emotional blackmail to stay married, (and this is only IF someone wants to stay married)

and truthfully I don't know how I got on this topic anyways...my point was initially that no one but the person who is cheating is at fault...

[Jinnah]

OWoman, I'm not calling you "reprehensible," but I have to take issue with your statement that there's no sneaking. Yes, there is. His wife doesn't know. No matter how else it gets dressed up, or who else knows, there is still lying going on to the only person who really matters or would really care. It just doesn't matter who else you've told; that's window dressing. Not sneaking = all three parties know what's going on.

 

If she called, would you tell her the truth? Have you discussed that with him?

 

Serial muse, this is just another case of the OW in serious denial. The wife doesn't know (so there's the lying/sneaking/hiding) and she is a participant in ADULTERY... we need to call it what it is. She is an accomplice in cheating another woman out of her marriage.