To The BS's - Don't Blame The OW

[frannie]

Concerning my H and his A with the OW...I can say, he dealt with the after effects of the A, long after she was out of the picture, which was dday. he never saw her again, and apart from a few conversations and one confrontation with me, she has never entered our M again, physically.

I think the xOW got off very clean.

Did I put blame on her for the A. He*ll yes. She was 50% to blame. She knew he was M, and she went straight on.

Was it her first A with a MM? No. Was it my H's first A? Yes.

 

So, I don't think all BWs put the blame on the OWs. They put their fair share of the blame on the OW. They should. It doesn't matter if the OW made no vows to the W. Bull sh*it! That's pure kah-kah! and lame to boot!

I promise you, the H deals with alot more stuff than the xOW ever does.

 

She was 50% to blame for your husband cheating on you..? So he's only 50% to blame for having cheated on you..? He's only half to blame for his own actions...? Is that like if the cheesecake is really tasty I'm only half to blame for eating it..?

[IpAncA]

Call it whatever you want. It's the truth. The OW made no vows to the W. The MM did.

 

So would you say OW has no blame? OW is not to be blamed for entering the affair? No blame for staying in it? No blame for helping the affair along? No blame for anything? She was forced into it and the OW is clearly the victim?

 

I'm trying to figure out why people think OW are the victim when they know full well there in an affair and are helping keep it alive.

 

Guess it's easier to wash your hands of it and say "well he's the one that cheated." True but he couldn't have done that without the OW.

 

Interesting topic btw....

[pricillia]

Is it even possible for some human beings to be monogomous?

 

I really am beginning to believe that some men and women are naturally inclined to be with multiple partners.

 

So if you want to blame someone or something blame nature.

[frannie]

So would you say OW has no blame? OW is not to be blamed for entering the affair? No blame for staying in it? No blame for helping the affair along? No blame for anything? She was forced into it and the OW is clearly the victim?

 

I'm trying to figure out why people think OW are the victim when they know full well there in an affair and are helping keep it alive.

 

Guess it's easier to wash your hands of it and say "well he's the one that cheated." True but he couldn't have done that without the OW.

 

Interesting topic btw....

 

Of course, an OW is entirely responsible for being in an affair... in the same way anyone is responsible for being in a relationship. For THEIR own actions. Not for anyone else's. You can't say an OW is responsible for a MM's cheating, any more than his W is! All this 50% of responsibility is completely spurious! No one is 50% responsible for someone else's actions!

[pricillia]

Of course, an OW is entirely responsible for being in an affair... in the same way anyone is responsible for being in a relationship. For THEIR own actions. Not for anyone else's. You can't say an OW is responsible for a MM's cheating, any more than his W is! All this 50% of responsibility is completely spurious! No one is 50% responsible for someone else's actions!

 

 

where did monogomy come from anyway...

[OpenBook]

So would you say OW has no blame? OW is not to be blamed for entering the affair? No blame for staying in it? No blame for helping the affair along? No blame for anything? She was forced into it and the OW is clearly the victim?

 

I'm trying to figure out why people think OW are the victim when they know full well there in an affair and are helping keep it alive.

 

Guess it's easier to wash your hands of it and say "well he's the one that cheated." True but he couldn't have done that without the OW.

 

Interesting topic btw....

 

No. Let me be clear. I believe that the OW is responsible - to HERSELF - for putting herself in such a sorry situation. But the OW is NOT responsible for the MM's cheating, for the W's being betrayed, or for the state of the M.

 

The OW is not a victim. She is to blame for entering a high-risk situation for HERSELF. But she is NOT to blame for the A's effect on the M. That is not her area. It is the MM's area.

[OpenBook]

Of course, an OW is entirely responsible for being in an affair... in the same way anyone is responsible for being in a relationship. For THEIR own actions. Not for anyone else's. You can't say an OW is responsible for a MM's cheating, any more than his W is! All this 50% of responsibility is completely spurious! No one is 50% responsible for someone else's actions!

 

Ah Frannie, you beat me to it!

[frannie]

Hmm just to show how odd this % argument is.. say the MM in question was one of those really prolific ones.. and he had 3 OW... would each of them be 33.3% responsible for him being a cheater... oh no that's wrong... it would be 1/3 of 50% so what's that now..?

 

Each OW he added would be progressively less and less 'to blame' for him being a cheating piece of ****e... so say he had 50 OW, each of them would be only 1% (just coz the maths is easier) responsible for him being a cheater.... so... actually, any OW who is dating a MM who has multiple OW can probably count herself lucky... it's not really her fault..?

 

OR... hold on... what if each person in a relationship took a percentage of the 'blame'..so... if there is one MM and 2 OW... each have a third of the blame... would that make MM less accountable the more OW he had..?

 

Or is all that a bunch of nonsense and he's still responsible..? I'm going for that option.

[OpenBook]

Hmm just to show how odd this % argument is.. say the MM in question was one of those really prolific ones.. and he had 3 OW... would each of them be 33.3% responsible for him being a cheater... oh no that's wrong... it would be 1/3 of 50% so what's that now..?

 

Each OW he added would be progressively less and less 'to blame' for him being a cheating piece of ****e... so say he had 50 OW, each of them would be only 1% (just coz the maths is easier) responsible for him being a cheater.... so... actually, any OW who is dating a MM who has multiple OW can probably count herself lucky... it's not really her fault..?

 

OR... hold on... what if each person in a relationship took a percentage of the 'blame'..so... if there is one MM and 2 OW... each have a third of the blame... would that make MM less accountable the more OW he had..?

 

Or is all that a bunch of nonsense and he's still responsible..? I'm going for that option.

 

Frannie I'm trying to come up with a sensible response to your post IF I COULD ONLY STOP LAUGHING LONG ENOUGH to think of one. Thanks for the belly-laugh! :D:D

[IpAncA]

No. Let me be clear. I believe that the OW is responsible - to HERSELF - for putting herself in such a sorry situation. But the OW is NOT responsible for the MM's cheating, for the W's being betrayed, or for the state of the M.

 

The OW is not a victim. She is to blame for entering a high-risk situation for HERSELF. But she is NOT to blame for the A's effect on the M. That is not her area. It is the MM's area.

 

Take's two to tango OB. OW simply can tell MM their not interested but they don't for whatever their reasons are. OW allowed MM to have the affair.

 

So if you want to blame someone or something blame nature.

 

We're blaming nature now?

[norajane]

Is it even possible for some human beings to be monogomous?

 

I really am beginning to believe that some men and women are naturally inclined to be with multiple partners.

 

So if you want to blame someone or something blame nature.

 

Nature is not to blame for cheating. People who get married and stay married while having other partners are to blame for cheating.

 

If a person can't be monogamous, then they shouldn't get married and make promises of monogamy. If they 'discover' after they're married that they aren't cut out for monogamy, then they should get a divorce instead of lying, sneaking around, and betraying the person they made promises to.

 

Nature is not responsible for people making choices to betray their promises.

[norajane]

where did monogomy come from anyway...

 

Men. Men were all about the monogamous marriage contract back in the day - for their wives anyway. They wanted to make sure those babies were their own, and their property stayed in the (legitimate) family.

[Tony T]

Is it even possible for some human beings to be monogomous?

 

No. It takes just as much self discipline to be faithful as it does to stay thin...and you see how many obese people there are in the land. It takes a lot of restraint not to give into temptation when it presents itself in the right place at the right time for some people. And there are many people who wouldn't think about cheating today who would be quite vulnerable in the months and years to come.

 

People are human. Marriage, in terms of evolution, is a very recent institution. Men are wired to spread their seed just like lower primates and other earthly creatures. Yes, there are marriage vows but you would be absolutely shocked at the number of people who can't even keep their word about almost anything. People break contracts everyday and think nothing of it. Our world has changed dramatically. Get used to it.

 

It's not that I like what is or what I observe. I just have to embrace reality. The reality is that it's very difficult for humans to remain faithful over a long period of time unless they are locked in a closet.

[pricillia]

No. It takes just as much self discipline to be faithful as it does to stay thin...and you see how many obese people there are in the land. It takes a lot of restraint not to give into temptation when it presents itself in the right place at the right time for some people. And there are many people who wouldn't think about cheating today who would be quite vulnerable in the months and years to come.

 

People are human. Marriage, in terms of evolution, is a very recent institution. Men are wired to spread their seed just like lower primates and other earthly creatures. Yes, there are marriage vows but you would be absolutely shocked at the number of people who can't even keep their word about almost anything. People break contracts everyday and think nothing of it. Our world has changed dramatically. Get used to it.

 

It's not that I like what is or what I observe. I just have to embrace reality. The reality is that it's very difficult for humans to remain faithful over a long period of time unless they are locked in a closet.

 

 

Thanks TonyT

 

I was just asking a question that no one else was. I just think that we underestimate that although some of us can decide not to sleep around, or be with another there are many of us who can not because for many of us we are not supposed to be.

 

I believe in being faithful but I know that not everyone is wired that way

[Havn_a_life]

She was 50% to blame for your husband cheating on you..? So he's only 50% to blame for having cheated on you..? He's only half to blame for his own actions...? Is that like if the cheesecake is really tasty I'm only half to blame for eating it..?

 

Ok, whatever that was...

[Havn_a_life]

No. It takes just as much self discipline to be faithful as it does to stay thin...and you see how many obese people there are in the land. It takes a lot of restraint not to give into temptation when it presents itself in the right place at the right time for some people. And there are many people who wouldn't think about cheating today who would be quite vulnerable in the months and years to come.

 

People are human. Marriage, in terms of evolution, is a very recent institution. Men are wired to spread their seed just like lower primates and other earthly creatures. Yes, there are marriage vows but you would be absolutely shocked at the number of people who can't even keep their word about almost anything. People break contracts everyday and think nothing of it. Our world has changed dramatically. Get used to it.

 

It's not that I like what is or what I observe. I just have to embrace reality. The reality is that it's very difficult for humans to remain faithful over a long period of time unless they are locked in a closet.

 

Oh, I don't agree with that last paragraph. I've been M over 18 yrs. I've been faithful to my H. So, that myth is busted. I know many, many people just the same.

Where are you from, Tony T?

[sadbuttrue]

i do not believe i am personally to blame for MM's cheating on his W. sure i allowed things to progress as they did. i could have stopped at any time (if my heart had allowed it), but sometimes it is harder to sacrifice your feelings for some stranger when you see this man in front of you that cares for you. and maybe at first you think you can keep it under control and keep it on a friendly basis. then things change and it seems to be out of your hands, and this man is still there, wanting to see you, talk to you, and you have been alone for so long, and you think-is this stranger's feelings so much more important than your own feelings at this point?

 

i chose (maybe selfishly) my feelings.

[Ladyjane14]

Yet, I also see that in some situations, unfulfilled spouses request again and again their unfulfilled needs to be met. I'm not talking about sex here, either (although I'm sure that is one of many unfulfilled needs in some marriages). I'm talking about support, trust, honesty, respect, all of the biggies. Yet the BS overlooks these unfulfilled needs and prioritises his or her own needs - thats not just "going through a bad patch". That's prolonged self-service. The unfulfilled spouse recognises self-service and decides to find another way to fulfil their needs and another person enters the arena and needs are met, whether it be some or all.

 

Thats not right - I know. But I can understand it (obviously). They seek something outside their marriage and they have to take the responsibility for that, along with the OP who facillitates the relationship. Yet the BS also has to look deep within and look. Did they really listen when the cracks start to appear? Did they assume happiness because they were happy that their needs were being met? In my opinion, some posters who generally say "My marriage was great! It was the skanky OP who came along, and pursued my partner" are farthest from rebuilding their marriages or creating a marriage from the unfulfilled relationship they had before. Reneging responsibility of their own actions that contributed to WS looking outside the marriage for their own needs.

 

I can't disagree with any of that, but I also agree with Silk when she tells us that by the time things have gotten this bad, "neither partner is toting their load". The WS fails in his responsibility to resolve the problem of his unmet needs with authority, and most often, the reason he fails to negotiate effectively is his own unwillingness to meet the needs of his partner.

 

Now, I'll give you that sometimes, on rare occasion, he's faced with a totally recalcitrant partner. But more often than not, he's not holding his end up either. Take the lop-sided libido situations we read about in the marriage section. It's easy to see that BOTH sides of that issue have good points, but they both have alot of misinformation too. I've argue those threads 'til I felt like I'd do better to beat my head on the wall ... and usually it doesn't matter if I'm talking to a sexually withholding wife or an emotionally withholding husband... with rare exception, neither side budges.

 

THIS is the dynamic that the OW walks into when she involves herself in someone else's marriage. And IMO, it's why it's a goofy thing to do. When you boil the whole thing down, entering into a relationship with a guy who has not resolved the problems in his marriage with authority is entering a relationship with a guy who lacks decisive coping skills.

 

The appropriate thing to do when every manner of conflict resolution fails... is to leave the marriage. The willingness to do so is the ONLY weapon in one's arsenal that's guaranteed to be effective. Because it ends the conflict one way or the other.

 

Your comments on this post, JNRR, lead me to think of H2T's threads. When you get past the vitriol of OW's who are incensed by him dropping his affair partner so hastily, and when you get past the outrage of BS's that he cheated... you see a man who just wants his wife to love him. A simple wish.

 

His infidelity only exacerbated the problems, and his betrayed wife is MORE reluctant than ever to evaluate her own behavior within the pre-affair marriage. To be honest, I doubt she ever will. These people were at loggerheads before in terms of EN fulfillment, and they're no closer to resolution as of his last post.

 

But still, I think it's fairly clear that his wish, if it were to be granted... would be for the woman he gave himself to in marriage to love him the way he loves her.

 

Now, how foolish was the OW to walk into THAT?

His motives, albeit hidden from the OW, had nothing whatsoever to do with her. He wanted EN fulfillment within his relationship, and frustrated, unable to resolve the conflict, he sought to split his ENs between two women.

 

Simply following the dictates of societal norms would have prevented her from getting involved and getting her feelings hurt. She didn't HAVE to know his truest motives if she'd simply obeyed this unwritten law... "don't fish in someone else's pond".

 

Married people who cheat are often VERY confused individuals. They do it for alot of different reasons, but at the bottom line... it's just unwise to get involved with somebody who doesn't have their sh*t together.

 

 

 

Back on topic though... I just don't see why the OW gets so bent out of shape at the prospect of people "blaming" her or not liking her. She chooses the action... she chooses the consequences. Sexual involvement with married partners is currently outside the bounds of societal norms. The consequence of living your life outside the bounds of societal norms is that quite a number of people won't invite you to dinner. Big whoop.

 

(So... all of you girls who're sleeping with someone else's husband are NOT invited to my house for pie and coffee. And I don't think you'll die of the loss. Although, my pies ARE the stuff of legends. )

 

But you get my drift, right?... It doesn't matter what I think of you or your choices. It matters what YOU think.

 

I'm free to "blame". I'm free to "judge". And it means NOTHING if an OW knows she's right. Which leads me to believe that maybe some of the most vociferous voices in here, those who are particularly defensive of their position, aren't all that sure they're doing the right thing.

[mopar crazy]

No Mopar, its notyour fault. sounds like your m had problems and your husband didnt want to listen to you to fix your M. Women dont nag, they just want to talk about whatever the problem is. Men label that as nagging. which I think is stupid. Your h was lazy in his M because he didnt want to fix it, its Not your fault.... its his

 

Thanks Mino. Actually, I was just being sarcastic w/ that post. I don't blame myself for the A. And your exactly right, the M was already having problems long b4 OW stepped in. She wasn't at fault for destroying our M, it was already destroyed. However, she certaintly didn't help either. Six months prior to the A H did quit drinking, did get some help for his issues and we were on our way to repairing the damage that had been caused. Along comes OW. She pursued H for three years. He knew she was attracted to him but at first he had no interest in her, thought of her as the factory bicycle. I don't know what happened, what she did or said to make him change his mind about her. I guess all the attention she paid to him made him feel good about himself. Well, if he would have treated me better I would have paid more attention to him.

[OpenBook]

No. It takes just as much self discipline to be faithful as it does to stay thin...and you see how many obese people there are in the land. It takes a lot of restraint not to give into temptation when it presents itself in the right place at the right time for some people. And there are many people who wouldn't think about cheating today who would be quite vulnerable in the months and years to come.

 

People are human. Marriage, in terms of evolution, is a very recent institution. Men are wired to spread their seed just like lower primates and other earthly creatures. Yes, there are marriage vows but you would be absolutely shocked at the number of people who can't even keep their word about almost anything. People break contracts everyday and think nothing of it. Our world has changed dramatically. Get used to it.

 

It's not that I like what is or what I observe. I just have to embrace reality. The reality is that it's very difficult for humans to remain faithful over a long period of time unless they are locked in a closet.

 

Tony T, I love your avatar!! But the above in bold made me shudder. The way you describe it, men are no more evolved than apes in the wild. Color me crazy, but I prefer to think they've come along a little further than that.

 

If they haven't, then there's no hope for us women. We're crazy and way out of line to expect men to be faithful to us.

[Woggle]

Men are perfectly capable of being faithful I really hate when men try to play the stupid and helpless role in order to excuse bad behavior. It makes men such as myself who are decent and faithful look bad. I have never cheated on a woman and I never will and believe me I have had offers. The wedding ring is an invitation to certain women but I just tell them to get lost and go crawl up on some other guy. Also I do agree that many women nag and complain about everything under the sun which is no fun for a guy but that still won't make me cheat. If the nagging doesn't stop there is always divorce if that is the only I can get some peace in my home.

[OpenBook]

Men are perfectly capable of being faithful I really hate when men try to play the stupid and helpless role in order to excuse bad behavior. It makes men such as myself who are decent and faithful look bad. I have never cheated on a woman and I never will and believe me I have had offers. The wedding ring is an invitation to certain women but I just tell them to get lost and go crawl up on some other guy. Also I do agree that many women nag and complain about everything under the sun which is no fun for a guy but that still won't make me cheat. If the nagging doesn't stop there is always divorce if that is the only I can get some peace in my home.

 

Yes, the BS has the choice to leave the marriage. By the same token, the OW or OM has the choice to honor the other person's marriage and not fish in their pond. As for the cheater, they're beneath contempt! I think the BS, in prolonged or repeated cases, is a fool to stick around and the fact that the OW or OM wants to be with a proven cheater is indicative of their low character and lack of values.

 

There are no winners here!

 

It's posts like these that make me wonder, "What is the difference between these types of guys and the ones who cheat?" Is it some kind of gene mutation in their DNA's? I'm happy to say that the majority of the MM I know are like this - faithful to their W's (as far as I know) and content at home. It's obvious in the way they treat ME. I don't have to worry.

 

Which makes it even more irritating when I have to deal with the MM who aren't. And why I want to scream at their W's.

 

Although Curmie, I have to disagree with you about the OW/OM having low character/values for being with a MP. I know too many good people who are in this situation. F*cked up? Yes, IMO it's a messy situation and it tends to scramble your brain; nobody's thinking straight. (It sure had me spun around when I was in it.) But immoral? No more than the BS ignoring her H's repeated requests for sex, or emasculating him with withering words and looks.

 

It is far too complicated a situation for me to feel qualified to judge it.

[Woggle]

OW/OM don't have low character but I do think they have some issues and something went wrong somewhere to cause to have such a warped view of relationships. If you look at many of them on here they seem incapable of handling a normal and healthy relationship and they have a very cynical view of the opposite sex and love in general. Many of them left good men who treated them well to go chase after a dog that cheats on his wife so I do think that there is something inside that causes them to chase after this type of situation. I actually feel some pity for them because they are chasing after a lie that will never make them happy.

[OpenBook]

Where are you from, Tony T?

 

Tony T - in case you don't already know this... Whatever you do, DON'T REVEAL YOUR LOCATION in a public post here on LS. Too many kooks out there.

[OpenBook]

It's posts like these that make me wonder, "What is the difference between these types of guys and the ones who cheat?" Is it some kind of gene mutation in their DNA's? I'm happy to say that the majority of the MM I know are like this - faithful to their W's (as far as I know) and content at home. It's obvious in the way they treat ME. I don't have to worry.

 

Which leads me to this thought... maybe you guys really AREN'T all that different from the next guy. Maybe the difference is THE WOMAN YOU MARRIED. I've met & gotten to know some of the W's of the MM's I work with. After meeting them, I understand the MM a lot more, and why he behaves the way he does. Hmmmm.... I'm going to have to ponder that one some more!