To The BS's - Don't Blame The OW

[Woggle]

I am lucky enough to have met a gem of a woman but if a man is married to a nag that makes his life miserable he should leave. I would say the same thing about a woman in a bad marriage as well. When my ex cheated after a year of me being berated and put down by her for everything I didn't cheat for revenge but instead I served her with the divorce papers. I also know some good women that have gotten cheated on. Truth be told it is usually the good ones that get screwed. Cheating and resentful women usually end up with men who treat them like gold not matter how bad they treat them and good women tend to end up with abusers who exploit their kindness. Every once in a while two great people find each other and that is when you have one of those couples who are married 40 years and are still in the honeymoon stage.

[lindya]

Which leads me to this thought... maybe you guys really AREN'T all that different from the next guy. Maybe the difference is THE WOMAN YOU MARRIED. I've met & gotten to know some of the W's of the MM's I work with. After meeting them, I understand the MM a lot more, and why he behaves the way he does. Hmmmm.... I'm going to have to ponder that one some more!

 

 

What is there to ponder? That thought doesn't seem any different from the opinion you kicked this thread off with.

[OpenBook]

What is there to ponder? That thought doesn't seem any different from the opinion you kicked this thread off with.

 

Apparently you missed the part where I asked, "Am I wrong?" No wait -- you didn't miss it. You responded that it depended on my motivation for starting the thread.

 

OK, since you seem so concerned about my motivation... I presumed that the purpose of starting a thread here on LS was to present one's ideas to the LS posters at large, and open up the floor for discussion of said ideas.

 

Am I wrong?

[silktricks]

Even when WSs are quick to exclaim "Its me not you!" I think they sometimes using a clever get out clause. Because they too are not stating the actual things that lead them to an affair, their unfulfillment, the fact that things are wrong and might remain so as they are too quick to plaster over the cracks. They are just holding their hands up and wishing the confrontation over. How can a marriage be rebuilt if the rehabilitative affect of addressing previous unfulfillment is not addressed?

 

In my mind, we're all somewhat responsible with the focus being on the cheating person. Thats why I dont understand the blame game too well.

You're probably right in some cases. I do think, though, that for some WS, the reason they say "It's me not you!" is because of the depth of regret and shame they feel. If at that point the BS is willing to accept that at face value the marriage is still going to have holes. As you say, the marriage really cannot be rebuilt if the prior problems are not fully addressed.

 

I think there is too much focus on the cheating person. Placing the focus there is taking the easy way out for both the OP and the BS. There's plenty of pain to share equally amongst the three IMO , and plenty of responsibility, too .

[Impudent Oyster]

I And even if the W was doing everything right at home, and he STILL cheats on her, then she can blame no one but herself for staying in a horrible situation like that.

 

Am I wrong?

 

Yes, you're wrong.

 

I don't blame the OW for breaking my marriage vows, I blame her for being a liar and duplicitous snake who agreed to hide her relationship (if you could call it that) from everyone and I blame her for not having the decency and self-respect to not get involved with a married man.

 

OW aren't innocent and for sure neither are the MM, but they share 50% of the responsibility for an affair, the MM the other 50% and the wife ZERO.

 

If people are unhappy with their marriages they get divorced, if they just want attention and side-sex, they have an affair.

[reboot]

People are human. Marriage, in terms of evolution, is a very recent institution. Men are wired to spread their seed just like lower primates and other earthly creatures. Yes, there are marriage vows but you would be absolutely shocked at the number of people who can't even keep their word about almost anything. People break contracts everyday and think nothing of it. Our world has changed dramatically. Get used to it.

So you're saying we humans are no better than a bunch of rutting monkeys? We are absolutely incapable of controlling our baser instincts? I don't believe that. It's all about making choices.

[Impudent Oyster]

 

The guys I was with made the final decision to cheat, sure - but it was because I managed to convince them to do it. I have also fallen victim to an OW like this as well. The OW I fell victim to did the exact same thing. So, yes - blame the cheater, but understand that sometimes OW can be blamed just as much, if not more so.

 

OpenBook - the type of OW I mentioned are the ones who BS tend to think are the types that went after their husbands, and I expect your post was borne from that. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't - but they do make it harder for the OW who really were the ones who were pursued and lied to by MM.

 

This is why I have to respect Lucrezia, because she takes responsibility for her actions. The OW definitely pursued my H, hell, he's good-looking, very successful and charming, there are loads of women who could care less that he's married because they see in him a one-way ticket out of the rat race.

 

The wife has nothing to do with an affair, thus, no responsibility, it's the two people involved who are responsible, no one else and not one more than the other. It's time everyone realized that.

[Havn_a_life]

i do not believe i am personally to blame for MM's cheating on his W. sure i allowed things to progress as they did. i could have stopped at any time (if my heart had allowed it), but sometimes it is harder to sacrifice your feelings for some stranger when you see this man in front of you that cares for you. and maybe at first you think you can keep it under control and keep it on a friendly basis. then things change and it seems to be out of your hands, and this man is still there, wanting to see you, talk to you, and you have been alone for so long, and you think-is this stranger's feelings so much more important than your own feelings at this point?

 

i chose (maybe selfishly) my feelings.

 

Not to be harsh, but there's plenty, PLENTY of SGs out there wanting the same things you are. They don't have to be home at a certain hour so their Ws won't be suspicious or things of that nature. They can come and go as they please, and no one gets hurt.

[Havn_a_life]

Tony T, I love your avatar!! But the above in bold made me shudder. The way you describe it, men are no more evolved than apes in the wild. Color me crazy, but I prefer to think they've come along a little further than that.

 

If they haven't, then there's no hope for us women. We're crazy and way out of line to expect men to be faithful to us.

 

There's plenty of MWs out there who can't be faithful to their Hs either. Don't group men into one lump and say they're senseless beasts.

M, men or women, are both capable of "spreading their seeds".

[Havn_a_life]

Tony T - in case you don't already know this... Whatever you do, DON'T REVEAL YOUR LOCATION in a public post here on LS. Too many kooks out there.

 

Well, I didn't literally wanna know where he was from. LMAO

I was gonna add, BumF'dEgypt, but that seemed rather rude.

 

If you looked at any of my posts, I don't ask anyone where they're from, and I don't give out mine either. Kook-free here, dear.

[Havn_a_life]

I am lucky enough to have met a gem of a woman but if a man is married to a nag that makes his life miserable he should leave. I would say the same thing about a woman in a bad marriage as well. When my ex cheated after a year of me being berated and put down by her for everything I didn't cheat for revenge but instead I served her with the divorce papers. I also know some good women that have gotten cheated on. Truth be told it is usually the good ones that get screwed. Cheating and resentful women usually end up with men who treat them like gold not matter how bad they treat them and good women tend to end up with abusers who exploit their kindness. Every once in a while two great people find each other and that is when you have one of those couples who are married 40 years and are still in the honeymoon stage.

 

I have to strongly agree with the part I put in bold. Some men M b*itches and some women M a*sshole men.

[Havn_a_life]

Yes, you're wrong.

 

I don't blame the OW for breaking my marriage vows, I blame her for being a liar and duplicitous snake who agreed to hide her relationship (if you could call it that) from everyone and I blame her for not having the decency and self-respect to not get involved with a married man.

 

OW aren't innocent and for sure neither are the MM, but they share 50% of the responsibility for an affair, the MM the other 50% and the wife ZERO.

 

If people are unhappy with their marriages they get divorced, if they just want attention and side-sex, they have an affair.

 

AMEN! I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Havn_a_life]

This is why I have to respect Lucrezia, because she takes responsibility for her actions. The OW definitely pursued my H, hell, he's good-looking, very successful and charming, there are loads of women who could care less that he's married because they see in him a one-way ticket out of the rat race.

 

The wife has nothing to do with an affair, thus, no responsibility, it's the two people involved who are responsible, no one else and not one more than the other. It's time everyone realized that.

 

Again, AMEN!

[OpenBook]

Well, I didn't literally wanna know where he was from. LMAO

I was gonna add, BumF'dEgypt, but that seemed rather rude.

 

If you looked at any of my posts, I don't ask anyone where they're from, and I don't give out mine either. Kook-free here, dear.

 

 

Where are you from, Tony T?

 

 

 

Uh, OK. Whatever you say.

[mopar crazy]

Uh, OK. Whatever you say.

 

What Hal was getting at was asking him where he was from....Bum F@cked Egypt but didn't actually want to put that. Confusing, yes but that is what she meant. She didn't actually ASK where Tony was from, she was being a smart ass. Correct me if I'm wrong hal.

[lindya]

THIS is the dynamic that the OW walks into when she involves herself in someone else's marriage. And IMO, it's why it's a goofy thing to do......Married people who cheat are often VERY confused individuals.... it's just unwise to get involved with somebody who doesn't have their sh*t together.

 

Back on topic though... I just don't see why the OW gets so bent out of shape at the prospect of people "blaming" her or not liking her. She chooses the action... she chooses the consequences. Sexual involvement with married partners is currently outside the bounds of societal norms. The consequence of living your life outside the bounds of societal norms is that quite a number of people won't invite you to dinner. Big whoop.

 

 

Objectively, most people know it isn't healthy to get too embroiled in drama....but curiosity or boredom often results in us being sucked in at times. A little bit of drama and conflict lets us identify and play out our preferred roles. Mischievous stirrer, objective adult, angry victim, compassionate rescuer, vitriolic persecutor, rebel, conformist etc etc.

 

A cheating situation offers those same opportunities for drama - but on a much grander scale (and with more risk and, consequently, excitement attached). The OW who enables a man to cheat on his wife might be burned in the end, but the great sex that results from the heightened emotions and sense of excitement probably makes it feel well worth the risk at the time. Given the "sexy" and exciting connotations of being social subversive, being on the end of social rejection might seem a small price to pay. In some ways, getting rejected might even feel rewarded (eg if it results in a rescuer stepping in). Or, as LB mentioned earlier....she might just think she's invincible.

 

To the original question of whether it's the wife's fault....I think people choose for themselves whether they want to accept or reject blame. The adult response is usually to focus more on figuring out why something happened. The blame game just holds that process up and prevents useful analysis. It's tempting to play it. It can probably result in some emotional catharsis which a person feels they need - but I don't think it generally results in many useful, insightful answers.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

To the original question of whether it's the wife's fault....I think people choose for themselves whether they want to accept or reject blame. The adult response is usually to focus more on figuring out why something happened. The blame game just holds that process up and prevents useful analysis. It's tempting to play it. It can probably result in some emotional catharsis which a person feels they need - but I don't think it generally results in many useful, insightful answers.

 

I'm with you on that one Lindya. I think for a certain window of time the blame game will be played when emotions are running high. However, its those that grab onto blame like a magic carpet who are missing a very valuable point.

 

LJ, I can see why you look to H2Ts posts as a good example of affairs within a marriage - especially when it comes to unfulfilled needs. But it is not the only example, obviously. And I think "I just wanted my wife to love me" is too simplistic in many situations, as an OW I know only too well that "But I love him" is just a blanket response and I think it is in this area too. Thats just my opinion. And I'm sure your pies are lovely.

 

TonyT, I think its an interesting point about monogamous relationships. I agree, humans are not wired for monogamy - and temptation is difficult. I guess the argument is that monogamy can catapult relationships in a deep spiritual bond that other mammals cannot get (lol, well, you never know I suppose). Yet, I believe that if there is a spiritual bond between two people that doesn't necessarily have to occur in a monogamous relationship.

[OWoman]

it's just unwise to get involved with somebody who doesn't have their sh*t together.

 

LJ maybe things are a little different in your part of the world, but I've yet to meet ANYBODY - single or married - who had their ***** sufficiently together to guarantee any prospective partner an uneventful ride! In fact, on reflection that might be behind some of my attraction to MMs - they were together enough for someone else to pre-approve them, after all...

 

The consequence of living your life outside the bounds of societal norms is that quite a number of people won't invite you to dinner. Big whoop.

 

(So... all of you girls who're sleeping with someone else's husband are NOT invited to my house for pie and coffee. And I don't think you'll die of the loss. Although, my pies ARE the stuff of legends. )

 

Ha - only if you KNOW! I remember a rather awkward dinner party a couple of years back where the hostess said something derogatory about an OW we knew, BECAUSE she was an OW, and suddenly found that she was the only one in the room who wasn't in an A with a MP (or was a MP in an A with an OP). Big - especially as one of the MPs there with his OP was her boss. But I suppose it depends on the circles you move in - most people I know take the lead from the A couple themselves; if they treat it as a secret, everyone around them does too. If they're open, then they're treated like any other couple. Which comes back to your point about blame and shame, I guess.

[Havn_a_life]

Uh, OK. Whatever you say.

 

LOL You're so funny!

[Havn_a_life]

What Hal was getting at was asking him where he was from....Bum F@cked Egypt but didn't actually want to put that. Confusing, yes but that is what she meant. She didn't actually ASK where Tony was from, she was being a smart ass. Correct me if I'm wrong hal.

 

You are definitely right, Mopar. I was, in fact, one step behind being a b*itch. LOL

[pricillia]

This is why I have to respect Lucrezia, because she takes responsibility for her actions. The OW definitely pursued my H, hell, he's good-looking, very successful and charming, there are loads of women who could care less that he's married because they see in him a one-way ticket out of the rat race.

 

The wife has nothing to do with an affair, thus, no responsibility, it's the two people involved who are responsible, no one else and not one more than the other. It's time everyone realized that.

 

 

Oyster,

 

Wow this must be difficult for you always having to watch your back, however it is not the OW fault that your husband is good looking charming ect ect ect. Although you are looking at this situation from your perspective and your perspective only there is a wide range of situations and relationship profiles.

 

I am not an OW that went after a MM, I did not even know he was. I am not trying to get out of the rat race at all, the funny thing is if I were I could have been married by now.

 

I did fall in love with MM and am with him because of it, not because he has money or overly attractive. Is this a situation that I want to be in... in love with a MM hell no, but you think that all OW are gold diggers and that is just not the case!

[Havn_a_life]

LJ maybe things are a little different in your part of the world, but I've yet to meet ANYBODY - single or married - who had their ***** sufficiently together to guarantee any prospective partner an uneventful ride! In fact, on reflection that might be behind some of my attraction to MMs - they were together enough for someone else to pre-approve them, after all...

 

 

 

Ha - only if you KNOW! I remember a rather awkward dinner party a couple of years back where the hostess said something derogatory about an OW we knew, BECAUSE she was an OW, and suddenly found that she was the only one in the room who wasn't in an A with a MP (or was a MP in an A with an OP). Big - especially as one of the MPs there with his OP was her boss. But I suppose it depends on the circles you move in - most people I know take the lead from the A couple themselves; if they treat it as a secret, everyone around them does too. If they're open, then they're treated like any other couple. Which comes back to your point about blame and shame, I guess.

 

What kind of get together would that be? A swinger's party? lol

[Havn_a_life]

Oyster,

 

Wow this must be difficult for you always having to watch your back, however it is not the OW fault that your husband is good looking charming ect ect ect. Although you are looking at this situation from your perspective and your perspective only there is a wide range of situations and relationship profiles.

 

I am not an OW that went after a MM, I did not even know he was. I am not trying to get out of the rat race at all, the funny thing is if I were I could have been married by now.

 

I did fall in love with MM and am with him because of it, not because he has money or overly attractive. Is this a situation that I want to be in... in love with a MM hell no, but you think that all OW are gold diggers and that is just not the case!

 

I honestly think that if you realize he's M after the fact, then you still have a responsibility to yourself, to respect yourself enough to get out of the A.

A person can do better than someone else's spouse. It's perposterous to even try and make excuses to why you should stay in a relationship with a MP.

If he/she was a decent person themselves, they'd have gotten a D and then went searching for another "mate".

JMO

[pricillia]

I honestly think that if you realize he's M after the fact, then you still have a responsibility to yourself, to respect yourself enough to get out of the A.

A person can do better than someone else's spouse. It's perposterous to even try and make excuses to why you should stay in a relationship with a MP.

If he/she was a decent person themselves, they'd have gotten a D and then went searching for another "mate".

JMO

 

 

again only looking at this from your point of view.

[IpAncA]

I honestly think that if you realize he's M after the fact, then you still have a responsibility to yourself, to respect yourself enough to get out of the A.

A person can do better than someone else's spouse. It's perposterous to even try and make excuses to why you should stay in a relationship with a MP.

 

Yep I agree.