Everybody Knows Christ

[Road Rage]

And I can prove it;)

 

Just let someone who appears to be Christian do something umm.... not so Christian. Right away, there is not a person alive that doesn`t notice and go throught the "oh what a hypocrite" thing.

 

Sooo..... how did you know he was a hypocrite? You can`t judge someone a hypocrite unless you understand what they profess or appear to believe and then see a contradiction in their actions? No?

 

Don`t give a damn where you go or who it is, they are going to notice. You can only notice if you undertand it. Suppose someone is working on my air conditioner and he starts to put the black wire where the red one should go. If you don`t know it then you would not notice he is doing something wrong, no?

 

Everyone understands Christ. Maybe it is in our genes.:eek: Oh! Excuse me for saying that! That would mean maybe it is our human nature that is part of the evolutionary heritage. Humans evolved into belief in Christ.

 

And then he showed up???

 

What is that thing about when the student is ready the teacher will appear??? Evolution and creationists could come together. Hey! Ain`t talking no orgy here:o Get yo mind out the gutter.

 

Sooo....you got that one didn`t you:D

 

Not too Christian was it. Sure wouldn`t hear it from the pulpit. Now, how you know dat?

 

Most of the time thinking will go along the lines "I don`t have a problem with Christ. It is Christians that are the problem. Starting wars in the name of Christ and messing around with children and such.

 

Nobody said anything about that here. Just saying that people really know what they are doing and the rightness or wrongness of it. But it can be hidden well within maybe?

 

The lack of Christ in Chritianity practised is probably what keeps most people away. It isn`t really so much that with me as it is a feeeling of being totally detached from the people. Isn`t it funny that you believe or not believe in something according to how well those who profess to beieve seem authentic?

 

The way people behave doesn`t prove or disprove the reality of something. The question is one of determining if it is the truth. In fact, if people are not practising a professed belief that promises solace and it creates pain and suffering does that not more prove the truth of the belief?

 

Holy Quacamole! I think I`m getting around to saying that Christians behaving badly have done more to prove the validity of Christ`s teaching better than any evangelist, prophet, teacher; etc. who has ever broached the subject:laugh:

[DutchGuy]

So if I see a muslim eat pork, I would only classify that as unislamic if I 'knew' Muhammed?

[Road Rage]

Dutchguy

 

Muhammed is a prophet. Muhammed knew Christ just as you know Christ. How many times have you called a Christian a hypoctrite?

 

It is tough to undertand. Thomas Aquinas called it natural law. Many have pondered it.

 

But it is most evident in how it seems anyone anywhere can instantly point a finger and call a Christian a hypocrite.

 

Only possible if you know Christ.

[amaysngrace]

I have to agree with you Road Rage. You make a good point.

 

Did you think of this yourself?

[Road Rage]

amaysngrace

 

Oh yeah, all the time. Just look at Rev Jackson and his lovechild:laugh: It`s fun to point fingers isn`t it?

 

Ok, I am a hypocrite. anyone who has attempted to live Christianity will quickly find that out:o

 

But I think now I am in some sort of agnosticism. But it is fun to get on the pulpit from time to time. If I am ever on a plane at 36,00 feet altitude and it takes a nose dive you are going to hear some serious praying;)

 

They say there are no atheists in foxholes.

[amaysngrace]

I think you're pretty smart. I'd have never thought of it but some of the best ideas are the ones that make people say "now why didn't I think of that?" This is one of those ideas!

[norajane]

Only possible if you know Christ.

 

Not really. We've all heard plenty about Christ and Christianity throughout our lives regardless of whether we are or are not Christians.

 

You can't avoid it, really. History, literature, geography, art, music, science, etc., are impossible to study without Christianity all over the place. Not to mention pop culture. I've seen "John 3:16" waving around banners at football games. You'd have to live in a cave to never hear about Christianity.

[amaysngrace]

Not really. We've all heard plenty about Christ and Christianity throughout our lives regardless of whether we are or are not Christians.

 

You can't avoid it, really. History, literature, geography, art, music, science, etc., are impossible to study without Christianity all over the place. Not to mention pop culture. I've seen "John 3:16" waving around banners at football games. You'd have to live in a cave to never hear about Christianity.

 

 

Anyone who can say "it isn't very Christian of them" knows Christ. Maybe they are not followers but they know what Christ represents.

[Moai]

And I can prove it;)

 

Just let someone who appears to be Christian do something umm.... not so Christian. Right away, there is not a person alive that doesn`t notice and go throught the "oh what a hypocrite" thing.

 

Sooo..... how did you know he was a hypocrite? You can`t judge someone a hypocrite unless you understand what they profess or appear to believe and then see a contradiction in their actions? No?

 

Don`t give a damn where you go or who it is, they are going to notice. You can only notice if you undertand it. Suppose someone is working on my air conditioner and he starts to put the black wire where the red one should go. If you don`t know it then you would not notice he is doing something wrong, no?

 

No. First off, one need not be a Christian to be a hypocrite. Just because most Christians are hypocrites it does not follow that most hypocrites are Christian.

 

Also, it isn't that the person in question seems to be a Christian, it is that they profess to be a Christian, and make specific statements about morality as they do so. One need not know anything about Christian doctrine to see that Jimmy Swaggart is a hypocrite, for example.

 

Everyone understands Christ. Maybe it is in our genes.:eek: Oh! Excuse me for saying that! That would mean maybe it is our human nature that is part of the evolutionary heritage. Humans evolved into belief in Christ.

 

And then he showed up???

 

What is that thing about when the student is ready the teacher will appear??? Evolution and creationists could come together. Hey! Ain`t talking no orgy here:o Get yo mind out the gutter.

 

Sooo....you got that one didn`t you:D

 

Yeah, and not only was it not funny, it is wrong. There are at least 45,000 different religions on the planet, and the vast majority of people are not Christian. Muslims and Jews leap to mind, as do Jains, Hindus, Wiccans, Sikhs, Buddhists, and believers in Shinto. If we are evoved into belief in Christ, how can this be--unless you are asserting that these people are less evolved that a Christian?

 

This also begs the question as to why god would wait 4,000 years to save everyone, instead of doing it immediately.

 

Not too Christian was it. Sure wouldn`t hear it from the pulpit. Now, how you know dat?

 

Most of the time thinking will go along the lines "I don`t have a problem with Christ. It is Christians that are the problem. Starting wars in the name of Christ and messing around with children and such.

 

Most of the time. I have a problem with "Christ" but that is another thread.

 

Nobody said anything about that here. Just saying that people really know what they are doing and the rightness or wrongness of it. But it can be hidden well within maybe?

 

The lack of Christ in Chritianity practised is probably what keeps most people away. It isn`t really so much that with me as it is a feeeling of being totally detached from the people. Isn`t it funny that you believe or not believe in something according to how well those who profess to beieve seem authentic?

 

If people do what you suggest, they are using fallacious reasoning. The belief stands on its own, regardless of who believes it, how many believe it, etc.

 

Most people that I know who reject all religions, Christianity included, is because they are so silly.

 

To paraphrase Christianity: A talking snake convinced a woman to eat magic fruit and convince her partner to do the same, which is why humans (and everything else) now die, and because sinners must go to Hell because that's the rule that god made, he sent his son, sho is also him, to be sacrificed so that he could get around a rule that he himself created but for some reason can't suspend. Ah, makes perfect sense....

 

The fact that being a Christian doesn't make people more moral (by your own admission) should show you how valuable it is as a moral compass.

 

The way people behave doesn`t prove or disprove the reality of something.

 

Not in and of itself, no. But, if belieiving in something is SUPPOSED to change someone's behavior and doesn't we can see the fallcious nature of said belief.

 

The question is one of determining if it is the truth. In fact, if people are not practising a professed belief that promises solace and it creates pain and suffering does that not more prove the truth of the belief?

 

No, because most people believe in something that is supposed to make themmore moral, and not only does it not do that, in many cases it makes things worse.

 

Bad things happen exactly as we would expect based on probability regardless of the belief of those involved.

 

Why hasn't god answered ONE non-arbitrary prayer?

 

Holy Quacamole! I think I`m getting around to saying that Christians behaving badly have done more to prove the validity of Christ`s teaching better than any evangelist, prophet, teacher; etc. who has ever broached the subject:laugh:

 

If that is your point, you failed to make it.

[norajane]

Anyone who can say "it isn't very Christian of them" knows Christ. Maybe they are not followers but they know what Christ represents.

 

 

Is that what the OP means by "knowing Christ"? If so, then I agree.

 

I guess when I hear "know Christ", I think you mean "know" Christ in our hearts and minds and believe, not just know about him by cultural osmosis.

[Moai]

Not really. We've all heard plenty about Christ and Christianity throughout our lives regardless of whether we are or are not Christians.

 

You can't avoid it, really. History, literature, geography, art, music, science, etc., are impossible to study without Christianity all over the place. Not to mention pop culture. I've seen "John 3:16" waving around banners at football games. You'd have to live in a cave to never hear about Christianity.

 

Which brand of Christianity? For some, god hates homosexuals and it is ok to kill them. For others, one must give up all earthly possessions in order to realy be a Christian. For others, tithing guarantees riches in this world. And on and on and on.

 

Christians cannot even agree remotely on what they believe, and it is they themselves who mainly say, "not very Christian, is it?" For nonbelievers like myself the Christian part is irrelevant, one is either an immoral jwek or one is not.

[Road Rage]

norajane

 

I think you are putting some type of "are you saved?" meaning in what I`m saying because many fundamentalists used that term. Didn`t remember that when I used it.

 

Good point about the exposure to Christian doctrine. That is it in a nutshell everyone has had exposure to it. A good portion of the planet.

 

There is another aspect to what I`m saying that is hard to nail down. And that is like Christ represents a form of global justice that is generally accepted.

 

I like to separate it from the ritualism and stick to the conduct among people.

[amaysngrace]

If that is your point, you failed to make it.

 

Moai, Road Rage failed to make his point to you. He made his point to me.

 

I agree that some of the people who try to jam religion down the throats of others are very self-serving.

 

But there are others who profess no faith and seem just as arrogant.

[underpants]

btw, I would so do Jesus.

[Moai]

Moai, Road Rage failed to make his point to you. He made his point to me.

 

I agree that some of the people who try to jam religion down the throats of others are very self-serving.

 

But there are others who profess no faith and seem just as arrogant.

 

And his point was?

 

I think that it is the opposite of arrogance to utilize and adhere to the rules of critical thinking.

[burning 4 revenge]

And I can prove it;)

 

Just let someone who appears to be Christian do something umm.... not so Christian. Right away, there is not a person alive that doesn`t notice and go throught the "oh what a hypocrite" thing.

 

Sooo..... how did you know he was a hypocrite? You can`t judge someone a hypocrite unless you understand what they profess or appear to believe and then see a contradiction in their actions? No?

 

Don`t give a damn where you go or who it is, they are going to notice. You can only notice if you undertand it. Suppose someone is working on my air conditioner and he starts to put the black wire where the red one should go. If you don`t know it then you would not notice he is doing something wrong, no?

 

Everyone understands Christ. Maybe it is in our genes.:eek: Oh! Excuse me for saying that! That would mean maybe it is our human nature that is part of the evolutionary heritage. Humans evolved into belief in Christ.

 

And then he showed up???

 

What is that thing about when the student is ready the teacher will appear??? Evolution and creationists could come together. Hey! Ain`t talking no orgy here:o Get yo mind out the gutter.

 

Sooo....you got that one didn`t you:D

 

Not too Christian was it. Sure wouldn`t hear it from the pulpit. Now, how you know dat?

 

Most of the time thinking will go along the lines "I don`t have a problem with Christ. It is Christians that are the problem. Starting wars in the name of Christ and messing around with children and such.

 

Nobody said anything about that here. Just saying that people really know what they are doing and the rightness or wrongness of it. But it can be hidden well within maybe?

 

The lack of Christ in Chritianity practised is probably what keeps most people away. It isn`t really so much that with me as it is a feeeling of being totally detached from the people. Isn`t it funny that you believe or not believe in something according to how well those who profess to beieve seem authentic?

 

The way people behave doesn`t prove or disprove the reality of something. The question is one of determining if it is the truth. In fact, if people are not practising a professed belief that promises solace and it creates pain and suffering does that not more prove the truth of the belief?

 

Holy Quacamole! I think I`m getting around to saying that Christians behaving badly have done more to prove the validity of Christ`s teaching better than any evangelist, prophet, teacher; etc. who has ever broached the subject:laugh:

do you drop acid?

[Moai]

norajane

 

I think you are putting some type of "are you saved?" meaning in what I`m saying because many fundamentalists used that term. Didn`t remember that when I used it.

 

Good point about the exposure to Christian doctrine. That is it in a nutshell everyone has had exposure to it. A good portion of the planet.

 

Really? I don't think very many people know what sola scriptura means or why it is important, what the forces were behind The Reformation and what it means to be Protestant instead of Catholic. In fact, most believers I have interacted with both IRL, here, and on other forums know next to nothing about doctrine.

 

I have read people say the Catholics aren't Christians, or seem totally unaware that there are actually different types of Christianity.

 

It goes beyond whether or not one believes in transubstantiation or not, it goes to who they think Jesus was, what his teacings meant, and the nature of his divinity.

 

There is another aspect to what I`m saying that is hard to nail down. And that is like Christ represents a form of global justice that is generally accepted.

I can't see how. First, not everyone in the US has the same idea of justice, Christian or not. Many things that are seemingly abhorrent to us in the West are seen as just in the rest of the world.

 

Just as you couldn't care less about Islamic doctrine and their notions about justice--divine or otherwise--they couldn't care less about yours. That group of people alone is around 1.4 billion and getting bigger every day. And they know zip about any formof Christian doctrine.

 

I like to separate it from the ritualism and stick to the conduct among people.

So, I could be a good Christian because I behave morally yet reject Jesus' divinity--and perhaps even his existence in the first place?

[lonelybird]

So, I could be a good Christian because I behave morally yet reject Jesus' divinity--and perhaps even his existence in the first place?

human being 's efforts never can match up the standards of God, because he is too holy compare with us.

 

If you want to behave like a good christian, first of all, you must learn to be humble, that means you have to get rid of "never, or it is truth because I said it"

[Moai]

human being 's efforts never can match up the standards of God, because he is too holy compare with us.

 

If you want to behave like a good christian, first of all, you must learn to be humble, that means you have to get rid of "never, or it is truth because I said it"

 

I have never said anything is true because I said it, ever. I assert certain things are true because there is evidence to support a particular assertion, and do not accept things for which there is no eivdence, it is as simple as that.

 

I find it amazing that you think believing in an invisible superbeing who is in control of the entire Universe (which is billions upon billions of light years in size) takes a personal interest in YOU somehow makes you humble.

 

Look at it this way: I am sure that you believe that Jesus' crucifiction and resurrection is the single most important event to have ever happened, right? For the sake of argument, let's say news of that event is travelling through the Universe at the speed of light (the fastest speed there is, 186,000 miles per second). If that is so, the news of Jesus' having risen has not even left our galaxy yet. Our galaxy is 150,000 light years across. In fact, this news won't reach the clostest galaxy to Earth for another 1,999,998,000 light years. = or - 3 million light years.

 

A "light year" is the distance that light travels in a year. For comparison, the Sun is 93 million miles from Earth, and it takes light only 8 minutes to get here. That's fast.

 

Now, you suggest that not only is some sort of being capable of creating something so mind-blowingly vast, this being takes a special, unique interest in you, and cares more about what you think than how you behave.

 

In understanding the vastness of space alone, I realize that I am a tiny speck that will exist for the equivalent of a nanosecond in the grand scheme of things, and that the Universe itself (and everything in it, save my family and friends) is indifferent to my existence. In the face of such a reality my life, my joys and my sorrows fade into insignificance--less than that, even.

 

Who is really humble here?

 

I think what you mean by "humble" is you suggest that I turn my brain off and accept the things that what men who knew less about Nature than a modern elementary school student claimed is unassailable truth. I should ignore virtually every discovery in anthropology, geology, biology, physics, chemistry, medicine, hydrodynamics, statics, et al in favor of your book--or I will be punished forever. And this situation exists because god loves me.

 

I am not so arrogant that I can ignore the hard work and persecution that men far more intelligent and brave than I discerned for my benefit even though they didn't even know me. These men bettered the human condition with no consideration for me as an individual; rather, they hoped to better the lives of everyone everywhere as well as satisfy their unquenchable curiosity.

 

I stand in awe and humility in the face of such awesome accompishments. How can you not, especially considering you enjoy the benefits as much as I? You reject all that in favor of your little book, and don't even bother to understand any of what these men sacrificed their entire lives to give you.

[lovelorcet]

human being 's efforts never can match up the standards of God, because he is too holy compare with us.

 

If you want to behave like a good christian, first of all, you must learn to be humble, that means you have to get rid of "never, or it is truth because I said it"

 

There is a difference between being humble and being ignorant. Religious people have a hard time seeing this.

[burning 4 revenge]

I think what you mean by "humble" is you suggest that I turn my brain off and accept the things that what men who knew less about Nature than a modern elementary school student claimed is unassailable truth.

Its a frightening realization when you come to accept the strong probability that if you met Jesus you wouldn't follow him....he would follow you...

[Road Rage]

Several hundred year or so ago learned men of science scorned on the notion of rocks falling out of the sky. They adhered to the teachings of Aristotle who was brilliant and believed some notion of space being empty.

 

Common folk knew better, having lived life outside most of their life, they were aware of rocks falling out the sky. Now we call them meteors.

 

This is a case of observation contradicting the science of the time. Observation still contradicts science every day. You just can`t easily see it and when further discovery about the universe is made science will accept the next version of rocks falling out the sky that has been staring us all in the face.

[lovelorcet]

Several hundred year or so ago learned men of science scorned on the notion of rocks falling out of the sky. They adhered to the teachings of Aristotle who was brilliant and believed some notion of space being empty.

 

Common folk knew better, having lived life outside most of their life, they were aware of rocks falling out the sky. Now we call them meteors.

 

This is a case of observation contradicting the science of the time. Observation still contradicts science every day. You just can`t easily see it and when further discovery about the universe is made science will accept the next version of rocks falling out the sky that has been staring us all in the face.

 

I don't really get what you are trying to say here.

 

Science strives to explain things in the most educated and rational way we have available at any given time. What is shown to be convincingly false is kicked off and new explanations are needed.

 

People thought the earth was flat but I think most would agree today that is is round.

 

Science does not have all the answers right now but it is the best system we have to explain our surrounds and ourselves.

[Moose]

I don't really get what you are trying to say here.

Of course you don't. And you never will, just like others I know.....

Science does not have all the answers right now but it is the best system we have to explain our surrounds and ourselves.

You, (and others), are going to have to come to the realization that science will NEVER have all the answers. Man isn't capable of understanding the entire scope of this universe, and he/she never will be.

 

Keep searching, keep studying, and keep refining your, "philosophy". The more you do, the more it'll point DIRECTLY to God Himself.......

[lovelorcet]

Of course you don't. And you never will, just like others I know.....You, (and others), are going to have to come to the realization that science will NEVER have all the answers. Man isn't capable of understanding the entire scope of this universe, and he/she never will be.

 

Keep searching, keep studying, and keep refining your, "philosophy". The more you do, the more it'll point DIRECTLY to God Himself.......

 

Pointing to God? You mean like that super giant black hole we found in the center of our galaxy? We have a hard time describing it at the moment because we first need to develop a whole new set of physics to do that. If I want to believe that Gad created everything then why even bother to acquire anymore knowledge? Why do we need modern medicine? The knowledge needed to make that CPU in your computer was not in the bible. Aren't you a farmer Moose? Any plants or animals you have grown were domesticated, well how does that work?

 

The quest for knowledge could very well be never ending but unfortunately we will most likely end up destroying ourself before we get very far.

 

Religion is just one more thing that divides us and causes hate.