Everybody Knows Christ

[a4a]

I agree! 110% :laugh:Not, "a" God....THE God. I don't want to go into why in this thread, it's quite personal.....

 

So why is your god the right one?

 

Or is your god just the right one for you?

[Moose]

So why is your god the right one?

Because there is only One God.

[Enema]

Because there is only One God.

 

Come now... assertions without evidence are worthless.

 

Do you have any way to prove this claim, or is it simply a belief?

[JamesM]

 

And those gases came from a big bang, and yes we are still working on figuring that one out but as long as we don't exterminate each other first I think we are well on our way...

 

Ahh, ...and that is what they call faith.

 

faith (fth)

n. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing

 

And then...what was here before the Big Bang? Oh so many questions...yet we have all of the answers.

[Art_Critic]

I agree! 110% :laugh:Not, "a" God....THE God. I don't want to go into why in this thread, it's quite personal.....

 

If you make an assertion like this Moose I would ask that you go into it.. it wasn't too personal for you to make the assertion..

[Moose]

Come now... assertions without evidence are worthless.

Here we go again.....

 

I have all the evidence I need. You'll need to find your own.

If you make an assertion like this Moose I would ask that you go into it.. it wasn't too personal for you to make the assertion..

It isn't an assertion. My God is the God of all, "gods", Lord of all, "lords"....who are you to say that He isn't? You have no clue what's in this itty bitty heart O' mine.....nor do I care to allow you into it.....it's too personal....

[lovelorcet]

Ahh, ...and that is what they call faith.

 

 

 

And then...what was here before the Big Bang? Oh so many questions...yet we have all of the answers.

 

I just stated that we don't have those answers but we are working towards them I am sure that they are NOT going to be found in the bible. It will be through hard work and a lot of effort.

[Moose]

I just stated that we don't have those answers but we are working towards them I am sure that they are NOT going to be found in the bible. It will be through hard work and a lot of effort.

With that said, is it possible that you can agree that we'll never have all of the answers?

[lovelorcet]

I have all the evidence I need. You'll need to find your own.It isn't an assertion. My God is the God of all, "gods", Lord of all, "lords"....who are you to say that He isn't? You have no clue what's in this itty bitty heart O' mine.....nor do I care to allow you into it.....it's too personal....

 

And this type of logic is supposed to help us develop new kinds of medicine?

 

Do we just pray for a new cancer drug? Is God just going to pop out of a beaker and say "here you go boy!"

 

Because if that is the way to do it then I guess the 60 hours a week I spend in my lab is kind of pointless.

[Moose]

And this type of logic is supposed to help us develop new kinds of medicine?

 

Do we just pray for a new cancer drug? Is God just going to pop out of a beaker and say "here you go boy!"

 

Because if that is the way to do it then I guess the 60 hours a week I spend in my lab is kind of pointless.

Where, anywhere, do I say that science is worthless? I love science! Science is a window to God......how many times do I have to say that??

[lovelorcet]

With that said, is it possible that you can agree that we'll never have all of the answers?

 

Why are we the ones who have to do this?

 

You see humans as an end, I see humans as just one more step in one more lineage of evolution. We are at a point now where I see 2 things happening.

 

1. We destroy ourselves either through our environmental destruction or war.

 

2. We come to our senses and stop destroying everything.

 

If 2 happens we will also start to try and control our own evolution through genetically modify ourselves and I am not even going to try and guess at the moment where that will take us.

 

But the point is humans as you know them will be gone one day either way but our knowledge can be passed on. If eventually whatever we evolve into is able to find all the answers or not is for me unclear. But I do think there is a possibility of developing the one big equation that describes the whole universe. And i think it is a goal worth achieving. The knowledge we gain along the way can also be used to benefit humans.

 

The smallpox vaccine didn't come from praying... And I am sure that you are happy that you didn't ever have to worry worry about pox. Or maybe you never even thought about it.

[lovelorcet]

Where, anywhere, do I say that science is worthless? I love science! Science is a window to God......how many times do I have to say that??

 

Religion is a mockery of science. I am not of the opinion that they can work together. One always has to compromise to the other and there are no compromises in science... Just as you can't refute the word of your God.

[Moose]

Why are we the ones who have to do this?

I guess I don't get your meaning.....do you mean why is this generation having to come up with all of the answers? (before we, "evolve" into, "higher" beings).

 

If that's what you're driving at, I'll answer that it's in our nature to want to know......

Religion is a mockery of science.

I agree, and the reverse can also be said.

 

However.....I didn't mention anything about any religion. I'm talking about God and Science. Science came from God. That's why I love science. Each study, test and conclusion is a direct result of God's creation and thus gives us an insight as to how or why He created it.

 

And no.....He isn't going to give us ALL of the answers. Not in the sense like my sensei won't teach me ALL of his moves....but more like I wouldn't be able to execute them, or understand them anyway.....

[Enema]

It isn't an assertion. My God is the God of all, "gods", Lord of all, "lords"....who are you to say that He isn't? You have no clue what's in this itty bitty heart O' mine.....nor do I care to allow you into it.....it's too personal....

 

You seem confused about the definition of assertion. Allow me to help you:

 

Assertion: Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assertion

I'm glad you have confidence in your beliefs, but you should be clear they are based on nothing of substance.

[Moose]

Thanks for the, "lesson".

 

I'm not confused at all. I knew full well where AC was coming from. And I've also explained that the, "assertion" comes from within. That was a very poor attempt to get me worked up....

but you should be clear they are based on nothing of substance.

You're kidding right? We have Scriptures, Archeaology, Historians, Scholars, and yes....even SCIENTISTS.....this isn't substantial to you?

 

Let me ask you then, what would be?

 

Christ is right....even if He were to bring the dead to life right in front of you, you wouldn't believe it.....

 

Besides, "Practice what you preach"....isn't that what they all say?

 

Scientists have, "theories".....so let me ask you, what's the difference?

[Moai]

Thanks for the, "lesson".

 

I'm not confused at all. I knew full well where AC was coming from. And I've also explained that the, "assertion" comes from within. That was a very poor attempt to get me worked up....You're kidding right? We have Scriptures, Archeaology, Historians, Scholars, and yes....even SCIENTISTS.....this isn't substantial to you?

 

Scripture isn't evidence. Muslims have scripture, as do Hindus. Clearly, you are neither of those, so you do not accept their scripture as evidence. There is no compeeling reason to accept your scripture, either.

 

How does archaeology give you evidence for god? We have found the site of Troy, where the Iliad takes place. Does that mean that all of the Iliad is true? There is no evidence for the Hebrews being enslaved in Egypt. A huge chunk of the Bible is therefore false.

 

I have no idea what evidence from history you think would be evidence for god, but I'd love to see it.

 

"Scholars"? Not sure what you mean here.

 

And yes, there are scientists who believe in god. There are scientists who are Muslim, Hindu, and Deist. The occupation of someone who believes in god is not evidence.

 

Let me ask you then, what would be?

 

The Rapture.

 

Christ is right....even if He were to bring the dead to life right in front of you, you wouldn't believe it.....

 

I would. Zombies would definitely get me to believe in god.

 

Besides, "Practice what you preach"....isn't that what they all say?

 

Scientists have, "theories".....so let me ask you, what's the difference?

 

The difference is that theories are based on evidence and are falsifiable. I can think of a dozen things that would get me to abandon the current theory of evolution (a jackrabbit in the pre-Cambrian is a good one).

 

Theory is not dogmatic, and is based on evidence. Evidence comes in all the time (interesting that most theories become stronger, not weaker). All they do is explain natural phenomena. If the theory changes, the phenomena doesn't become false, or shange how it works.

 

Gravity is now working and we can't explain it. The Earth didn';t suddenly start revoloving around the Sun because now eeryone believes that.

 

What would constitute evidence for you to give up your belief in god?

[amaysngrace]

In point of fact, you are taking man's word for things you and they could not possibly know and asserting that such is "true."

 

It doesn't matter who the person is. Statements stand or fall on their own merit, regardless of who makes them. I can tell that their thinking is correct because I know what a fallacy is. It's actually pretty easy, actually.

 

How do you determine what is valid and what is not?

 

 

What is a fallacy to you may not be a fallacy to everyone. A fallacy is a false belief, no? It's subjective. So you say it's correct merely because that person with their critical thinking shares the same belief as you. That doesn't mean you're correct. It just means you're on the same wavelength as someone else.

 

Same as me. You and I may have different beliefs on a notion or idea but I can find someone who shares my idea too. It doesn't make it more right than your idea or vice versa.

 

All it makes them is different.

 

But that is why it is difficult to argue beliefs on religion. Believers believe based on the proof we have and non-believers try to find logical explanations on how creation began.

 

It's a fruitless battle actually. A waste of time. Stating my POV on why I believe in God won't change your POV and you stating your POV to me won't make me see it your way.

[Moose]

Scripture isn't evidence. Muslims have scripture, as do Hindus. Clearly, you are neither of those, so you do not accept their scripture as evidence. There is no compeeling reason to accept your scripture, either.

Sure there is. The Scripture that I subscribe to clearly defines Christ as God Himself. No others do. And if you refute that....then you are clearly proving the OP correct to assume that Christ is fictional, which proves He's clearly an object in your mind, fictional or not.

 

Do you get the just of this thread yet?

How does archaeology give you evidence for god?

Really? Dead Sea Scrolls? Ancient Roman Empire? Galgotha? What about the recent "Lost Tomb of Jesus" presentation recently aired? Even your team is looking for Him...

There is no evidence for the Hebrews being enslaved in Egypt.

YET. Same as anything scientists search for. Isn't that the whole basis that science is riding on right now? And has historically been riding on? Come on....even Pure Sugar has been proven bad for us, then good for us, then great for us, then bad AGAIN for us according to scientists.....

 

I'm not saying that these discoveries aren't instrumental in our well being....I'm just saying....(for you Otter), that there is no POSSIBLE way to exclude the, "Uncaused, first Cause" that Has all of these answers......

 

(Side note, I only expect a few to understand what I just typed)

I have no idea what evidence from history you think would be evidence for god, but I'd love to see it.

You already have....and openly rejected it.

"Scholars"? Not sure what you mean here.

Obviously, Biblical Scholars carry absolute no merit with you, so why compile a list?

And yes, there are scientists who believe in god. There are scientists who are Muslim, Hindu, and Deist. The occupation of someone who believes in god is not evidence

I believe I covered this one....if not, let me know....

The Rapture.

Interesting answer. One that I won't be around for.......bummer deal man.

I would. Zombies would definitely get me to believe in god.

That's kinda funny actually....thanks!

The difference is that theories are based on evidence and are falsifiable.

Is this where I should ask who's calling the kettle black? Seriously? The reason I ask is because I TRULY stir away from doing so.....but in this case it's so obvious....what to do?

 

Seriously....what to do?

What would constitute evidence for you to give up your belief in god?

Allow me to witness your creation of your own universe out of absolutely nothing.

[DutchGuy]

Ahh, how true. But you would never say that this "blue tooth phone thingy" (I like that BTW. ) appeared from some pile of parts magically either without the help of anyone, would you?

 

You wonder how something can form without a creating force and solve this by adding a creator to the equation, only expanding the problem because now we need an even complexer creator to explain the first creator (and so on, and so on).

[JamesM]

You wonder how something can form without a creating force and solve this by adding a creator to the equation, only expanding the problem because now we need an even complexer creator to explain the first creator (and so on, and so on).

 

Actually, no. In other threads, good explanations and links have been given to explain this. If you truly desire to see how this is possible, then google Proof that God Exists. This comment keeps getting brough up again and again...I swear, IT must be eternal.

 

"God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of a plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created."

 

But it goes back to that the evidence presented will be rejected unless it is God Himself who sits down in front of you and shows Himself. So no evidence that I can show you will be sufficient.

 

And I quote you....

 

What evidence would you need...or what evidence would be convincing enough so that you finally said..."There really is a God."

 

This might seem sarcastic but it really isn't, It would have to take me dying and finding myself standing for the gates of heaven (or in my case, being an atheist, presumingly hell).

 

Else, I would have to witness a revelation of god himself.

I imagine a deep voice coming from the sky saying "I am god, because you won't listen to me I will demonstrate my power".

 

Then the sky would turn red, the sea would go haywire and all the animals would go mad. Lightning would strike me without hurting me, I couldn't make up if I was deafened by sound or the absence of it.

Something awesome like that.

 

Anything less spectacular wouldn't be sufficient.

If I would hear voices in my head or see an entity, I would probably think that either it was my imagination or that I have gone mad.

 

And rather than go in pointless circles of arguments, I presented some information and ways that you can seek out answers to your questions. BUT...if you do not really want answers, then so be it. By us debating little points of fallacy and logic, nothing will be accomplished. No POVs will be changed. Both will consider the other uninformed.

 

And no, the Universe does not have evidence that it is eternal. Google Steven Hawkings, Albert Einstein and the universe not being eternal. I think they gave good reasons why this cannot be.

 

I am not God and cannot provide sufficient evidence to "satisfy" you.

[Road Rage]

Well, I still say everybody knows Christ

[Moose]

Well, I still say everybody knows Christ

And I would say that you are right.

[DutchGuy]

"God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of a plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created."

 

I will give you an example of something you and me both could agree on.

 

Reincarnation.

When you die your spirit will be born again in the body of another organism. You won´t have any recollection of your previous life once you enter the next.

In what way does that make you less dead than just plain dead?

 

If something moves outside of our comprehension of time... what would make the idea that that something is eternal more reasonable than that it would be unexistent?

[Moose]

I will give you an example of something you and me both could agree on.

I don't.

When you die your spirit will be born again in the body of another organism.

According to Scripture, when we die, believers are instantly present with the Lord. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". We'll have our memories, and we'll have our questions, and we'll long for our loved ones to one day join us. Then, at His second coming, those who are, "dead" in Christ will rise from their graves and meet Him in the air. (Same body.....not another organism).

If something moves outside of our comprehension of time... what would make the idea that that something is eternal more reasonable than that it would be unexistent?

That is something we can't even begin to comprehend......much like scientists can't comprehend how the universe came about in the first place.....

[DutchGuy]

I meant we could agree on it because both atheists and christians don't believe in reincarnation.

 

So that if you saw my point there, you might see what my point is in the other example.

 

Sorry if it was unclear.