Lyssa Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 It's great that both MM and I play games online together. He seems to think he can beat me a$$ at any game - I know one game he can't beat me at! You know what, JNRR... I know that feeling you're talking about. It's an amazing feeling. The closeness that we feel, it's beyond belief! I never open up to anyone let alone a man but with him, it was easy to do so. He is patient as well - knowing what my past had done to me and how I see relationship. I can talk to him about anything and everything. I just love that! We have an account on youtube that we share. We put our songs on it. He came up with the idea saying that we should both have our song each but because there is a lot of songs that we both love and reflect our situation and feelings, we ended up putting more than 10 songs on it!!! All this talking is making me miss him! Link to post Share on other sites
sadbuttrue Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 i love MM because he makes me feel loved. when we are together, the way he looks at me is so sweet and i can tell what he is thinking, just as he can read my mind like no other i love that he needs me as i need him. i love that he is such a wonderful father. i love him because he is himself with me. oh and the tongue..... Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I like about my MM... we text every night... so... while I post on LS.. I also email my MM... he's quietly sitting in front of the TV... and we exchange emails all night... dirty ones... funny ones... sometimes I'm laughing my head off... he's hilarious... Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I like about my MM... we text every night... so... while I post on LS.. I also email my MM... he's quietly sitting in front of the TV... and we exchange emails all night... dirty ones... funny ones... sometimes I'm laughing my head off... he's hilarious... LOL - yeah, he would out of the blue text me some funnies or sexy messages! It's great that my weekends now are full of laughter even when he is not with me. He never fails to make me smile! Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 A single guy may have more time but that dosen't mean he will give me more quality time. It is not about how much time you spend together but how good it is. I bet all the girls here had had a much better time with their MMs than with any single guy... As a general rule, yes, though there are also MMs who get weak and clingy and dependent just like SGs, and want to be in your face all day, have no respect for boundaries, and want your life to revolve around them. But as a rule, MMs are far more sorted, having had the edges knocked off them during the hurly-burly of marriage. They've learned to compromise, to cook and clean and do laundry, and they're far more daring and skillful lovers than SGs, with higher libidos and more consideration. Link to post Share on other sites
soon2bemine Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 He treats me with respect. He loves me for who I am. And there's just that special bond that we have developed with each other. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Quality? Quantity? Why should one have to choose? I get both with my MM. By the way, today is thirteen years to the day since we met! I sure do love my MM. It is so nice to hear that you are happy. It is so glaringly obvious in all your posts here in the OM/OW forum. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Ladies, I have a question for you. Much of what I've read in this thread makes me smile - these guys sound quite lovely. They love you. They are there when you need them. They respect you. They look after you. They hold you. They make love you to like no other... And so on. My question is this. What about TRUST and HONESTY? Call me naive, but isn't honesty the cornerstone of a healthy, successful relationship? I am not asking this to start a flame war. Nor am I being sarcastic or bitchy. I am sincerely interested in the OW's perspective on this. How can you love your MM so unconditionally and adore him so when you know he's lying to another woman (presumably, his BS)? Doesn't it bother you? Don't you lie awake at night wondering if he'd ever do that to you one day? Do you ever wonder what it says about his character to lie to his wife like that? His children? When I read what you all wrote about your MM, I felt all warm and tingly b/c that is precisely how I feel about my bf. But I just don't know how you ladies can get around the trust/honesty factor. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Ladies, I have a question for you. Much of what I've read in this thread makes me smile - these guys sound quite lovely. They love you. They are there when you need them. They respect you. They look after you. They hold you. They make love you to like no other... And so on. My question is this. What about TRUST and HONESTY? Call me naive, but isn't honesty the cornerstone of a healthy, successful relationship? I am not asking this to start a flame war. Nor am I being sarcastic or bitchy. I am sincerely interested in the OW's perspective on this. How can you love your MM so unconditionally and adore him so when you know he's lying to another woman (presumably, his BS)? Doesn't it bother you? Don't you lie awake at night wondering if he'd ever do that to you one day? Do you ever wonder what it says about his character to lie to his wife like that? His children? When I read what you all wrote about your MM, I felt all warm and tingly b/c that is precisely how I feel about my bf. But I just don't know how you ladies can get around the trust/honesty factor. Great post, OB. It's just that so many think their MM's will never do to them what they have done to their wives. Go figure! Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 My question is this. What about TRUST and HONESTY? Call me naive, but isn't honesty the cornerstone of a healthy, successful relationship? How can you love your MM so unconditionally and adore him so when you know he's lying to another woman (presumably, his BS)? Doesn't it bother you? Don't you lie awake at night wondering if he'd ever do that to you one day? Do you ever wonder what it says about his character to lie to his wife like that? His children? Your sarcasm isn't as subtle as you'd pretend to like to think... But it's a question and I guess I'll give it a go... Trust and honesty is the cornerstone of a healthy, successful R, I agree...and I was even one of the ones who was lied to... I guess it boils down to not knowing what he's telling her...if he's telling her anything...I am surprised at the number of people on here who think that just because they are happily married and go home to the one they love every day, that everyone else is so happily married... Not everyone sees each other every day or every week...and R's deteriorate on both ends...I don't know what he tells her and because of their schedules, I don't even know if he has to lie...Not everyone goes to bed with their partners every night or watches TV with them all night long...I think it's funny (not ha ha, but weird) that no one else considers that maybe the BS is actually cheating too... But I don't trust him blindly, I trust him by what I see...If he says something, I wait to see if he backs it up...But no i don't lie awake wondering if he'll do that to me...That seems like an utter waste of time...I already know his flaws...and I accept that of him...Just like the BS's when they accept their WS's back... There's so much assuming that goes on, it's sad really...The assumption that there's children, that they've been together forever and a day, on and on and on... And bringing in the MM lying to his children, cmon, that's a stretch...It's too bad that children are always thrown in to try and make people feel guilty...It's sad really... So that's my take on it...Honestly... Link to post Share on other sites
MeAndNotHer Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Your sarcasm isn't as subtle as you'd pretend to like to think..... you thought that was sarcasm? i thought it seemed pretty fair and honest. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 you thought that was sarcasm? i thought it seemed pretty fair and honest. And since when are you the barometer of fairness and honesty? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Oh were to begin The love notes he would send me for no reason the way he would look into my eyes and express everything he felt with out a single word one night we cried together it was so intense I can't even explain.. The calls he would make to me only minutes after dropping me off in the morning to go to work. I would literally step away from my desk and there would be a message on my phone telling me how much he loved me already wanting to make plans for that night. The way he would cheer me up when I was feeling down or vice versa. he always made me feel like no one else existed, no matter where we were. The long hours of talking between our love making sessions. the fun we had together I don't think I have ever had as much fun as I did with him, just out and about making each other cry with laughter the many many long conversations we loved to philosophise together sometimes we would just stay in and do that until the wee hours of the night over wine and music the scrabble nights the salsa dancing nights, we both sucked at it but we had a ball trying the first time I went to his place he didn't have living room furniture yet and we had a candle light dinner on a blanket on his floor it was the most romantic and fun night. like two school kids the nights out where it didn't matter where we were we were one and nothing seemed to be around us until someone would kick us out of a place because we had been making out non-stop or just talking and hand't realised the place was closing down. then we'd end the night with an all nighter back at on of our places. the way he would listen to me when I was down, and offer me emotional support unconditionally. he would always have coffee ready for me as I would be getting ready for work or vice versa if I got up first he always made time for me even when he was on deadlines for work he would still want to see me. the way his face would light up every single time we would meet. the way his voice would alway go a whole tone up when he knew it was me on the phone (his cell didn't have call display) The way he looked at me and told me I drove him crazy, and then he would cup my face in his hands and look into my eyes and tell me I was his world. the many many times he told me he was the happies man alive when with me. his incredibly talented ways in bed, WOW what stamina what technique! the many nights I was woken up by him giving me tender kisses all over my face as I was sound asleep. The way he always has something to say about how beautiful I looked even when I felt I looked average for the day. the little suprises that made me think he was always thinking about me the general thoughtful gestures he had for me that were non stop. the flowers for no reason all the time, the jewlery for no reason, or pastries he would pick up on his was home from work so many fond memories on why I loved this man...but they are now just that Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 D*mn it, TC - you kinda made me cry.... Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 The night 13 years ago when he asked me to be his wife. He said he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me and that he couldn't imagine another day without me in his life. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 D*mn it, TC - you kinda made me cry.... I made myself cry, but I also think it's getting on that time of the month... not sure it was a good idea to write this out, I have been burrying this stuff for a long time now.... Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Your sarcasm isn't as subtle as you'd pretend to like to think... But it's a question and I guess I'll give it a go... Trust and honesty is the cornerstone of a healthy, successful R, I agree...and I was even one of the ones who was lied to... I guess it boils down to not knowing what he's telling her...if he's telling her anything...I am surprised at the number of people on here who think that just because they are happily married and go home to the one they love every day, that everyone else is so happily married... Not everyone sees each other every day or every week...and R's deteriorate on both ends...I don't know what he tells her and because of their schedules, I don't even know if he has to lie...Not everyone goes to bed with their partners every night or watches TV with them all night long...I think it's funny (not ha ha, but weird) that no one else considers that maybe the BS is actually cheating too... But I don't trust him blindly, I trust him by what I see...If he says something, I wait to see if he backs it up...But no i don't lie awake wondering if he'll do that to me...That seems like an utter waste of time...I already know his flaws...and I accept that of him...Just like the BS's when they accept their WS's back... There's so much assuming that goes on, it's sad really...The assumption that there's children, that they've been together forever and a day, on and on and on... And bringing in the MM lying to his children, cmon, that's a stretch...It's too bad that children are always thrown in to try and make people feel guilty...It's sad really... So that's my take on it...Honestly... It was not sarcasm at all. It was a question that was on my mind...one that occurred to me after reading all the things the OW have posted in this thread. What I've read here...these are things that I've always looked for in my ideal mate...and then the whole honesty/trust thing popped up in my head - and I wondered how the OW dealt with that. Why would you think I was being sarcastic? If I wanted to make a point, I would do it elsewhere (not hijack a thread that was meant for something else). Thanks for answering my question though GEL. I guess each couple is different and each OW rationalizes things her own way. Not all MM have kids and not all of them are in LTM. Fine, I get that. But the fact remains, he's lying...on some level, there is some fundamental lying going on. I guess, in my mind, I wouldn't be able to reconcile this sense of "love" with the lying. The two just don't go hand in hand...thus prompting me to ask the questions (to broaden my horizons if you will...to get a different perspective...maybe there is a way to reconcile the two). I recently had a conversation with someone I love very much... He made a comment about honesty - that sometimes, to spare the feelings of another, you can't always be fully honest. This led me to think more about relationships and honesty. Anyway...thanks again for answering. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Thanks for answering my question though GEL. I guess each couple is different and each OW rationalizes things her own way. Not all MM have kids and not all of them are in LTM. Fine, I get that. But the fact remains, he's lying...on some level, there is some fundamental lying going on. I guess, in my mind, I wouldn't be able to reconcile this sense of "love" with the lying. The two just don't go hand in hand...thus prompting me to ask the questions (to broaden my horizons if you will...to get a different perspective...maybe there is a way to reconcile the two). I recently had a conversation with someone I love very much... He made a comment about honesty - that sometimes, to spare the feelings of another, you can't always be fully honest. This led me to think more about relationships and honesty. Anyway...thanks again for answering. I guess I can answer that if you like... Well yes that is the thing on the one hand if you see what all of us women get out of these relationships are what any woman longs for in a rel. all the great things that make romance so irresitible. But then there is the idea that they are lying. The fact that he could lie so easily to his W was very concerning to me which is why I didn't get involved with him until he was separated, I just didn't want to be a part of the lies. The times he would call me from his house and talk to me while she was asking him to come down to dinner and he talked as if nothing just turned my stomach it just felt to raw for me. Fast forward to our rel. and she was not in the picture, he chose to keep our rel a secret because he didn't want to hurt her further and the way I saw it was, that was his choice to handle things that way, I didn't agree and yes he was lying but he was lying to her, to be with me. I accepted that it was not an ideal situation but it was the best it could be given what we had to live, which was chosen by both him and me. The important thing for me was how he was going to handle getting out of his marriage and how he was going to be with me once our rel started when he was free. Only then would I have seen what his true colours were like. I looked at it as dating anyone you would date, it can either work or not. If I later found out he was indeed a liar and this happened all the time, well it's not like we were moving in together the minute he divorced, so the minute he divorced would actually begin the real time to get to know one another. Much like all other rels. happen Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I recently had a conversation with someone I love very much... He made a comment about honesty - that sometimes, to spare the feelings of another, you can't always be fully honest. This led me to think more about relationships and honesty. I think that is behind many MM keeping their Ws in the dark about the A. They hope that there's an amicable way out, some soft solution that isn't going to destroy the woman they've lived with and possibly built a home and family with. They hope that through gradual withdrawal she will move on, the growing apart will be apparent to her too, and she'll find love in the arms of someone else... But of course it seldom works that way. Sooner or later, if it gets serious, there are choices to be made and pain is inevitable. My MM is very honest... with me and in all other areas of his life I've seen. But with his W there's a history of "soften the truth to be kind", because she's demonstrated that what she wants is not truth, but affirmation. (The kind of "do I look fat in this?" bind.) That sets up a dynamic where the truth is nebulous, contingent, relative. It's easier not to say something that doesn't NEED to be said, and console yourself that you haven't lied, than to raise matters that will lead to fights, tears, pain. "Until the time is right". MM seem to have a wonderful way of rationalising that involves timing - one day, there'll be a "right" time to tell, and then they'll tell her all. One day, everything will be just perfect, and she'll deal with the revelation in that perfect, imagined way. Perhaps it's dishonest. It's certainly naive. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I think that is behind many MM keeping their Ws in the dark about the A. They hope that there's an amicable way out, some soft solution that isn't going to destroy the woman they've lived with and possibly built a home and family with. They hope that through gradual withdrawal she will move on, the growing apart will be apparent to her too, and she'll find love in the arms of someone else... But of course it seldom works that way. Sooner or later, if it gets serious, there are choices to be made and pain is inevitable. My MM is very honest... with me and in all other areas of his life I've seen. But with his W there's a history of "soften the truth to be kind", because she's demonstrated that what she wants is not truth, but affirmation. (The kind of "do I look fat in this?" bind.) That sets up a dynamic where the truth is nebulous, contingent, relative. It's easier not to say something that doesn't NEED to be said, and console yourself that you haven't lied, than to raise matters that will lead to fights, tears, pain. "Until the time is right". MM seem to have a wonderful way of rationalising that involves timing - one day, there'll be a "right" time to tell, and then they'll tell her all. One day, everything will be just perfect, and she'll deal with the revelation in that perfect, imagined way. Perhaps it's dishonest. It's certainly naive. OW you are SO describing my ex and his W it is not even funny. But I think there is a little bit of these types of men being ones that avoid confrontation too. Well a lot of men are whimps about getting out of rels/ I've had guy friends etc tell me they had done things in the past hoping the women they were with will eventually leave them on their own because they wanted to avoid having to do the dumping. Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 OB - I do not wonder if he'd do the same thing to me. I really don't. For me, I take things as it is. One day at a time. I have been doing that ever since I got hurt by a guy in the past. A lot of women are afraid of being cheated on, who doesn't? But I don't think about it. It doesn't really help me to think negative things like that. That's just me. I am happy with what I have now, so does he. That's the only thing that matters. This may not answer your Qs but just my two bits. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Yup, it's a fact -- men lie to women -- to their W's, their OW's, their daughters, their mothers,... And they exaggerate to other men. It's all part of the testosterone drive. They are trying so hard to impress everyone. They do not look at lying as a "no-no" -- it's more like a survival technique to them. An effective way to become and remain The Alpha Male. I have been unable to resolve this unavoidable and ugly truth in my own life & relationships with men in general. This is the precise reason why I could not reconcile with my H when we split up. He could not stop lying to me. And when I confronted him about it, he didn't see anything wrong with the lies. He said he was just trying to get me back. It didn't work. And this is the reason why, although I absolutely adore men, I do not trust them in general. They are "the enemy" in a very real sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I made myself cry, but I also think it's getting on that time of the month... not sure it was a good idea to write this out, I have been burrying this stuff for a long time now.... Tomcat, you have been loved. It is the stuff of life. So is the subsequent shattering of illusions that you went through. Although I am a bit nervous for your sake that you chose to write it out here on LS, I'm glad you had the courage to share it with us. We will all take from it what we will. Speaking strictly for myself, it is yet another reason to admire the depth and richness of another human soul such as yours. "I heard that!" Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Posted October 8, 2007 Senior Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2007 Once again a good thread has devolved into nastiness, attacks, sarcasm, etc. and must be closed. I think people who are extremely sensitive should not post in this category...unless you are totally prepared to get battered with insults. CLOSED! Link to post Share on other sites
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