My wife..... the longest story in history.

[whichwayisup]

Sex with you, from at least what you have written here, does not seem to be the issue. It is just a symptom of her bigger problems.

 

I think you have to decide if you are in this for the long hall here. Your wife is sick and are you man enough to stick it out now? You may need to have to put aside your sex issues for a while until she is in a place where she can work on that.

 

This is exactly why I asked him to google depression fallout. I have had afew friends go there and it helped alot.

[Kazan]

cobra i've already explored those things... i wouldn't be here on a forum asking for advice if it was something so blindly simple as she was mad at me for something and hiding it.

 

and no she isn't mad at me for going to okfest

[Cobra_X30]

cobra i've already explored those things... i wouldn't be here on a forum asking for advice if it was something so blindly simple as she was mad at me for something and hiding it.

 

and no she isn't mad at me for going to okfest

 

Shoot, I'm just batting 1000 today!

 

Yeah... I just wanted you to consider the possibility. Because sometimes its the simple things that you dont see.

 

I suppose she needs your love and support and probably in time things will come together for you!

 

What do you plan to do?

[Kazan]

What do you plan to do?

 

i'm out of ideas.. which is why i'm here

[Kazan]

well she had to switch therapists (switched jobs.. is a contractor currently so no insurance)

 

her new therapist (state funded) is a useless pigheaded ****.

 

yet another person who automatically assumes she has Borderline Personality Disorder because she was a self harmer

 

here are the DSM-IV diagnoses criteria

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment such as lying, stealing, temper tantrums, etc. [Not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5]
   
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
   
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
   
4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, substance abuse, reckless driving, overspending, stealing, binge eating). [Again, not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5]
   
5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats, or self-mutilating behavior.
   
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
   
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness, worthlessness.
   
8. Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights, getting mad over something small).
   
9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

she only shows 4 and 5*

 

5/9 symptoms must be present for diagnoses

 

 

BPD is "emo-kid disorder" and has that stigma

 

 

*she doesn't really show 4 anymore.. except for the occasional bought of very mild eating disorder

[Cobra_X30]

That sucks! Can you get her on your insurance?

 

Have you talked to her about her decreased level of affection?

 

Honest, usually I'm really good at finding solutions, but this is a situation where I'm like a fish out of water! I only partially understand what makes your wife tick.

[Kazan]

i'm currently finishing my degree.. so no insurance

[katiebour]

I think Curmudgeon would be a good person to weigh in on this topic- he has dealt with this too, I believe, although not to such an extreme degree.

 

Your wife has a lot of diagnosed problems. As a fairly healthy person when I see a laundry list that big I start to wonder "Is this person a hypochondriac? Are they feeding off the attention that their problems bring? Does it make them feel special or cared for to have people so concerned about them?"

 

But maybe it is all real and related to chemical imbalances. *shrug* I'm certainly not a doctor. My mom has a lot of similar problems; she's a recovering alcoholic whose life used to revolve totally around her and her neuroses, problems, stresses, etc. During an argument with an ex-stepdad of mine she cut her wrist and bled all over the kitchen- I called the police. I was 13 at the time. She's been in several institutions- once voluntary and once not.

 

I know part of her disease as an alcoholic is the tendency to view life as revolving around herself to the exclusion of most others. Her problems take the front seat- they become a constant topic of conversation and my life used to revolve around trying to make her feel better. Her career choice of physician was also highly stressful and resulted in our family moving all over the country because "this time" it was going to be better.

 

I cannot stand that sort of thing as an adult. My biased response would basically be "The world does not revolve around you! Get over yourself long enough to try and make someone else's life better for a change! Stop spending all your energies at work trying to fix other people and help make OUR home a better place! Save your caring for your family for a change- we're more than a dumping station for your woes!"

 

As they say in AA and Al-Anon, take what you like and leave the rest. Obviously your wife's situation may be completely different.

[Kazan]

I already said that that said list came from medical professionals, she is not a hypochondriac (nor does she in any way show the symptoms of being one), she actually has those conditions

 

Several of those conditions are linked to serotonin, and the others can be attributed to her poor treatment by males in the past.

 

PS: reak Hypochondriacs think they have every disease that they read about

PPS: BAd idea to bring up the religiously-bigoted Al-anon in my presence

[katiebour]

I already said that that said list came from medical professionals, she is not a hypochondriac (nor does she in any way show the symptoms of being one), she actually has those conditions

 

Psst... Kazan as the daughter of a medical professional, let me let you in on a secret- less ethical members of society will over-diagnose problems in patients to reap more money in future medical fees. Some have a tendency to diagnose everyone, even fairly normal people, as having problems- just look at the preponderance of kids diagnosed with ADHD. Not every one of those kids has ADHD and not all of them need the medication- sometimes they're just regular squirrely youngsters.

 

I simply wanted to state that MY first reaction would be to question the veracity of such a long list of diagnoses. To me it's like taking your car to the mechanic because the window won't roll down, and having the mechanic say that you need to replace the transmission, replace the computer system, and upgrade the window controls. I'd certainly question such a diagnosis. But then again I'm a skeptic and I tend to question almost everything that comes my way. Please don't take that tendency of mine personally.

 

As I said before you certainly know more about your wife's condition than I do, and if what I say has no relevance then please disregard it.

 

Several of those conditions are linked to serotonin, and the others can be attributed to her poor treatment by males in the past.

 

Well good! I hope they can do something about the serotonin issues. As a people-pleaser myself (just ask my boyfriend- in any argument I generally boil down to "what do you want? I'll do anything, just be happy, ok?") and someone who in previous relationships engaged in sex when I didn't want to, I can understand how that feels. I also don't think it's an excuse for anything.

 

My ex-bf with whom this behavior occured would have left me alone if I had said "no," it was simply that saying "no" would lead to all sorts of emotional fallout. No, I didn't want to have sex, and at times it was physically painful, but it was still my choice to deal with either the emotional or physical pain. But thankfully I now have a b/f who, when I am not into it, is not into it either. He wouldn't take me if I didn't want it. So those things in the past are simply that- things in the past.

 

PS: reak Hypochondriacs think they have every disease that they read about

 

Main Entry: hy·po·chon·dria

Pronunciation: \ˌhī-pə-ˈkän-drē-ə\

Function: noun

Etymology: New Latin, from Late Latin, plural, upper abdomen (formerly regarded as the seat of hypochondria), from Greek, literally, the parts under the cartilage (of the breastbone), from hypo- + chondros cartilage

Date: 1668

 

: extreme depression of mind or spirits often centered on imaginary physical ailments

 

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/hypochondria

 

PPS: BAd idea to bring up the religiously-bigoted Al-anon in my presence

 

I have no idea where you're coming from with this one. I would like to know, though. I don't believe in a higher power except that of man working in concert with man- i.e. the effect of the group to enable personal change and growth. So religion for me has no place in Al-Anon, and no one has ever tried to force religion on me in the group.

 

I've never seen or heard anyone denouncing religion either in an Al-Anon group- in the statements read at the beginning of each meeting it is expressed that all members should be respectful of other's views.

 

Please tell me about your experience- I would honestly like to know what happened.

[Kazan]

AA foists religion onto others - forcing them to "accept higher power" horse****. If it was a private organization receiving no government funding that would be their prerogative to be as bigoted as they want - however they both receive public funding and people get court ordered to go through their treatment program so it constitutes a problem

[katiebour]

It's true that AA and Al-Anon require a "higher power" in order to follow the 12 steps; I got into a discussion once on this topic because I am an agnostic/sometime atheist. An excellent answer that I received is that your "higher power" can simply be something or someone greater than you. It would be folly to think that such a creature doesn't exist, spiritual OR human. One suggestion of a higher power that worked for me was the entity of the Al-Anon group- I am easily able to believe that a group of people, with different backgrounds, experiences, and insights is greater than my own mind. Loveshack works on the same principle- two heads are better than one, three better than two... Of course if you get too many it can turn into a bureaucracy

 

When the 12 steps say "God as we understand him," since I am not spiritual and do not neccessarily believe in a god, I think of this phrase as my inner conscience. It always seems to tell me what I know is good for me, despite my urges to the contrary. For example:

 

Me: I really want to go to the store and buy a bunch of ice cream.

Conscience: I really don't need it though, I need to lose weight.

Me: How about I go to the store and buy a small packet of individual servings and space them out?

Conscience: That sounds like a much better idea.

 

 

Thus when I think of the 12 steps, I think of them this way:

 

I admitted we were powerless over the alcoholic—that my life had become unmanageable.

 

Came to believe that the group/fellow man/Loveshack could restore me to sanity.

 

Made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of my inner conscience.

 

Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of myself.

 

Admitted to my inner conscience and to another human being the exact nature of my wrongs.

 

Were entirely ready to work with my conscience to remove all these defects of character.

 

Humbly worked with my conscience to remove my shortcomings.

 

Made a list of all persons I had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

 

Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

 

Continued to take personal inventory and when I was wrong promptly admitted it.

 

Sought through positive thinking and compromise to improve relations with my inner conscience, practicing positive thinking and working hard to do what is right and best for myself and others.

 

Having experienced growth as the result of these steps, I tried to carry this message to others when useful and wanted, and to practice these principles in all my affairs.

 

 

That is my own take on the program; it works for me and helps me to improve myself. In any case I shouldn't be hijacking this thread so I will sign off on this topic. I hope that your wife's job situation, health and happiness improve and that your relationship will continue to get better.

 

Good luck Kazan!

[Kazan]

in the context of their statement it's clear that "Higher power" is a religious term, so just because one can tap-dance around it doesn't make the program not religion-foisting.

[katiebour]

in the context of their statement it's clear that "Higher power" is a religious term, so just because one can tap-dance around it doesn't make the program not religion-foisting.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Kazan]

that's unpossible

[dropdeadlegs]

Your wife may have emotional, and even physical, problems, but it doesn't seem like she is putting much effort into balancing her needs with yours. Spontaneous sexual relations involve mornings, afternoons, and evenings, and are not scheduled in any way. She is making excuses for not establishing this as a priority in the first year of your marriage. That doesn't bode well for the remaining years.

 

Furthermore, many of your responses indicate that you are allowing for excuses to be made.

 

I'm all for doing all you can to salvage the relationship. I would not jump ship at this point at all, but unless the tide turns in some favorable way, I don't think LS is going to be able to help you. Yes, medications can inhibit libido. Yes, past experiences with sex can be damaging. However, it takes two to tango, and your partner isn't even getting out on the dance floor. You need to do some horizontal boogie, some dancing between the sheets, and she wants to sit out far too often.

 

It may not be a solid fact, but the longer you don't have sex, the less you desire it; and the more you engage, the more often you do desire it.

 

Her meds have been regulated, she is seeking counseling, and for that she gets some points. Until she sees your needs as important as her own and will compromise on her idea of spontaneity and actually be spontaneous, it will not get better.

 

Have a child and watch it ALL go down the drain. If you can hang on until she's over 35, she may get that sexual peak naturally. I'm assuming that's at least a decade off.

 

Give her time to actively resolve this, but don't put things on the back burner in any way. Let her know it needs to be resolved. I believe that can be done in a very loving manner. I hate to say it, but you need to think about how long you can wait for it to be resolved because I think it could be many years. Maybe the both of you should see a counselor specializing in sexual intimacy problems.

 

This isn't a new scenario for many of us over 40, and some of us have even been on both sides of the "no sex" fence. I have. I also know someone who has been married for nearly 25 years, and he still isn't getting any. The kids are grown, and he has grown heavy and bald and can't see any light in the future. It has affected him physically and emotionally and caused him as much pain as his wife says that having sex causes her. Why? Because nothing has been resolved and both of them are to blame for their complacency.

 

Best of luck, Kazan. This doesn't seem to be an easy situation to tackle from what I have seen and experienced. I'd sure like to read of some positive endings.

[Mr. Lucky]

Your wife may have emotional, and even physical, problems, but it doesn't seem like she is putting much effort into balancing her needs with yours. Spontaneous sexual relations involve mornings, afternoons, and evenings, and are not scheduled in any way. She is making excuses for not establishing this as a priority in the first year of your marriage. That doesn't bode well for the remaining years.

 

Furthermore, many of your responses indicate that you are allowing for excuses to be made.

You are the third or fourth person to suggest this, but the OP has shot it down every time ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Kazan]

there isn't much I can do about that... right now she is showing improvement on other fronts so i'm not going to push on that much... but it would be nice sometime to have her start things