Why does God let bad things happen to innocent people?

[lindya]

I think that there are some people that do believe in a cruel God when they blame God for allowing the existance of suffering, injustices, evil, etc. to take place in the world.

 

I don't blame God (if such a thing exists) for all that. I blame this:

 

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

[riobikini]

re:

 

Moose: " What are you thoughts?"

 

(Smile)

 

I have a lot of thoughts, Moose -thank you for asking.

 

It appears we have a story of similar details (leaving home at a very young age, feeling guilty about it because we left the most vulnerable behind, but winding up using our experiences for the good of ourselves and others) -but my neither of my parents were predators of any kind.

 

It was someone they hired to help with farm work -and who boarded with us during the seasons when there was the heaviest burden of work to be done.

 

It happened only once -enough to make my already-forming decision to leave home become a do-or-die vow.

 

I didn't tell anyone because of many reasons: I knew my mother would -first- treat the incident as emotionally mechanical as she treated other things that required emotional concern and investment, and I knew my dad would -well- kill him- and I feared the scenario that would ensue.

 

Besides, there was the embarrassment of the whole incident.

 

That came out of living in such a strict religious family -you become embarrassed over anything of a sexual nature -even if it's a criminal act perpetrated by someone else on you.

 

So I steered clear of this person making certain that I was never anywhere he was working -and I kept a close eye on my siblings, just in case, to protect them.

 

But I was focusing on the girls -my younger sisters- with my eye of protection -not my younger brother who was about five and a half.

 

It never crossed my mind that this predator would prey on a male child.

 

I was wrong.

 

Many years later, well into his adulthood when he was in his thirties, my brother came to me asking to talk.

 

I learned that the person who had attacked me had also attacked my baby brother several times and that he had been going through years of secret counseling.

 

His experience had -at first made him very bitter then it progressed to a sort of "nothingness" and he tried to shove it away from thought and pretend it never happened.

 

Those kinds of things never stay undealt with for very long.

 

He sought counseling when all sorts of things began to go awry in both his personal and business life, not realizing that his secret was actually the thing that was spurring the unrest -and having thought for years that he could hide from the effects of his past experience, leaving it to lie there undealt with.

 

He was afraid of what people -other "untouched" , "unpreyed-upon" males would think of him, and feared the whole idea of anyone ever knowing about what happened to him.

 

He feared a stigma would be attached -a big flashing sign would appear across his forehead, somehow, that would let everyone know he had been a victim- and he worried about how it would affect him in his business, within his circle of friends, and all the relationships that are so important that we, sometimes, just take for granted.

 

He didn't want the scarlet letter, nor people whispering about his ordeal behind his back.

 

Although, I had dealt with my own experience in similar ways -keeping it secret for years- I understood what he was conveying.

 

We both now lived in the same community where the saying "men are men/women are women" is thought of in terms of a testament to either your feminine or masculine rank.

 

No man here would want it to be known by anyone that he was raped by another man as a child.

 

But counseling was needed -my brother, finally, recognized the need- and began his healing.

 

As for me, well (Smile) being always in the "big sister" mode as well as known as the "healer" in my family- I tried to heal myself.

 

And that never works -others have to be involved whether you like it or not.

 

In trying to treat ourselves, we tend to "forget" -or outright avoid- certain events and issues that require the intervention of others to bring them to the forefront and tangle with them head-on -and eventually, soothe them and ease them into the best possible perspective so that we can truly live our lives in a much healthier -and happier- way.

 

Counseling for me was a long time in coming -but I got it.

 

I was so hardheaded, so full of pride that I had been able to squelch the need so far, so resistant.

 

And I realize now that I couldn't possibly have lived as well without counseling - breaking free of that peculiar guilt and that sordid memory I was carrying around for all those years.

 

I guess the point of all this isn't focused on just one in particular -it really is an accumulation of events that have unfolded rather slowly and in the end produced some pretty amazing results.

 

My bother is pastor at a local church, he's married to a wonderful person, he has a family that he adores in the proper way of a father to his children -and he is loved and respected by the people in his community.

 

And everyone knows what happened to him -he speaks about his experiences occasionally in public forums and is a very active advocate for tougher laws for the prosecution of child sex offenders.

 

He has made a difference - not just because of his experience- but because he chose to face it, deal with it, and turn it into something that he uses for the good of others.

 

It was *his* choice that made the difference -and that should be the goal and focus of everyone who encounters such a hurtful experience.

 

So how did my experience affect me?

 

Well (Smile) -it's had similar results as my brother- it has made me reach out with my very life to others -through my profession and through avenues of my own personal ability and offer "stepping stones" to to others so that they can walk out of all that dark guilt and hurt and bitterness to learn to live free of it.

 

I can't think of a better way to answer the original question.

 

I just think the true stories of something so very wrong turning into something so very right should be sufficient.

 

-Rio

 

 

 

 

P.S. The man whom I mention went to live in Florida where he raped a five year old girl and was sent to prison for several years. I'm convinced that she was not his only victim since the time -years before- that he preyed upon my brother and I.

 

My only regret is that I did not have the courage -or felt I had the freedom- to tell anyone those many years ago. I also regret that it took so many years -and such a brave fight- for the whole subject of child sexual abuse to reach a plateau of public and legal acknowledgment.

 

There are still (I'm sure) a lot of people out there hurting from hiding their secret but there is more recourse than ever before.

 

I personally urge anyone reading this who has had this awful experience to report it, get counseling, and begin reconstructing their life. It *can* be done.

[Moose]

I'm impressed with what everyone has said here. Well.....most everyone...

 

I think it comes down to essentially this;

 

God gave us free will...otherwise we'd all be preprogrammed robots forced to love God.....which would be worse than hell itself - IMHO

 

It comes down to the decisions each and every one of us makes whether or not to do evil, or good. And then to take our experiences and learn from them to help others going through the same or similar situation(s). OR....do nothing and watch as your life, and possibly lives around you self-destructs....

[riobikini]

If anyone is looking for some reference to God with this -you'll most likely find it in your freedom to make a choice of whether or not to use your experience -despite the pain you went through- to make a postive difference in your life and the lives of others.

 

-Rio

[DazedandConfused66]

Why do bad things happen to good people?

 

I'm not sure I'll ever know on "this side" of the great divide. But from the motivation, courage and strength I've seen exhibited by good people in the midst of bad times, I honestly think the simple reason is this.

 

Bad things happen to bad people all the freakin' time. But nobody pays them any attention because, they are "bad people" and thus have nothing to give the world but bad examples.

 

Good people, however, have a story to tell from their bad circumstances. They become authors, counselors, encouragers, role-models, heroes, saviors and saints.

 

Nobody ever mourns the serial killers of this world other than their mothers. But it's their victims' families who become evangelists for change and break out of their normal routine to try and make a difference.

 

That's why bad things happen to good people...because God wants to see a change in this mess of a planet, and only the good people have the ability to show us how much better we can all be, despite adversity.

[riobikini]

re:

 

DazedandConfused66: "...God wants to see a change in this mess of a planet, and only the good people have the ability to show us how much better we can all be, despite adversity."

 

It was the "despite adversity" part in your statement that struck me -it related to something similar LonelyBird said earlier in this thread- that character is built *through* adversity.

 

(Smile)

 

I heard it a little differently, that character is revealed through adversity.

 

I think that's closer to the truth.

 

"Despite adversity" says you met with a challenge and triumphed.

 

Adversity is something everyone will encounter in life -there's simply no way around it- life is full of challenges.

 

Revealing character, though, is certainly one of the first things some kinds of adversity will do, but true character is not rendered from -or reflected by- emotions of satisfaction focused on the triumph over it.

 

One of the main things adversity does is change us in some way -and it's up to us just how it changes us.

 

It's also about the ongoing inspiration you create when you triumph -an unexpected and welcome source of strength that you can't help but wind up passing on to someone else who's going through difficulty, and which might be just enough to help in pulling them through, too.

 

That truth applies to believers and non-believers, alike -bar none.

 

Adversity -by its very definition is opposition.

 

But it appears in degrees that range from not much more than mere annoyance with a bully to dark and utter devastation.

 

Still, some of our most valuable life lessons and greatest triumphs can come out of it, whether or not we ever figure out if there's a God -or not- mixed up in all this.

 

And it's absolutely absurd to think anyone would want adversity in their lives, but I think -I know- human beings are capable of healing from its most devastating blows and deepest wounds and learning, at least, something of value from them.

 

Whatever negative things you face in life -whomever attacks you, or robs you of something precious, or opposes, or hurts you in any way- ultimately, you are given the opportunity to recognize your position and your character.

 

Both your strengths and your weaknesses are revealed -not just your vulnerabilities- and you come to a place where you are compelled to begin the absorption, comprehension, conclusion, and "renewal" part of the changes that are the "fallout" of all that adversity brings.

 

This is where good, positive, amazing things can -and do- unfold.

 

You reshape, redefine and recommit to yourself to become somehow different -better, stronger, and surprisingly, more open, understanding, and intuitive- than you ever were before.

 

In short, you begin to realize you have the power and opportunity to view and use adversity in your life as a tool -not as a weapon against you.

 

To get there you come to this sort of great doorway -the one with the creature "Adversity" standing guard that mocks you and challenges you, and separates you from the peaceful, unassuming -less challenged- life you may have had before.

 

But you must step across the threshold to defy and defeat it because your healing -and your life- is beyond it.

 

I think the courage to do so comes from *you* -the light to see by comes from people who've been there.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[marlena]

Rio-

 

You were my first "mentor" on LS (this is how I think of you)! Your posts always give me a nudge to reach yet another higher rung in the ladder of self -awareness and understanding of others..

 

Thank you!

[DazedandConfused66]

Riobikini, you put into words what I feel in my heart to be true but am unable to express as beautifully as you just did. Thank you.

[b0iiana]

if god is real, how come i get bullied at school for being depressed and a whore??? and how come i got raped??? and touched by my granddad??? and beaten by my dad and big brother like hell everyday??

 

I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD, BECAUSE IF HE WAS REAL, WHY DO PEOPLE GET RAPED AND HURT EVERYDAY!!!!!!

 

i always ask myself.. why me, whyd you pick me and not my classmate that sits in front of me?

 

pfft life sux aye

[Moose]

if god is real, how come i get bullied at school for being depressed and a whore??? and how come i got raped??? and touched by my granddad??? and beaten by my dad and big brother like hell everyday??

 

I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD, BECAUSE IF HE WAS REAL, WHY DO PEOPLE GET RAPED AND HURT EVERYDAY!!!!!!

 

i always ask myself.. why me, whyd you pick me and not my classmate that sits in front of me?

 

pfft life sux aye

Are you admitting that you're depressed AND, (pardon me, but YOU said it first), a whore?

 

Why would you want your classmate to suffer what you've suffered?

 

This says alot about your heart attitude.......why would God prevent these things with the attitude you have already?

[Enema]

why would God prevent these things with the attitude you have already?

 

 

You tell her Moose.

 

Her bad attitude means she deserves to be raped and beaten.

[The Joker]

Are you admitting that you're depressed AND, (pardon me, but YOU said it first), a whore?

 

Why would you want your classmate to suffer what you've suffered?

 

This says alot about your heart attitude.......why would God prevent these things with the attitude you have already?

 

Agreed, it is her attitude which determines everything that follows. If she wanted things to change she would take the first step in doing so herself.

[disgracian]

You tell her Moose.

 

Her bad attitude means she deserves to be raped and beaten.

LOL, verily said! Never mind that Moosey is putting the cart before the horse. Let's see if we can follow the chronology here:

 

God shouldn't have prevented the abuse that caused her attitude because her attitude retrospectively justifies the abuse heaped upon her in the first place?

 

I guess that's what happens when your god exists outside of time and logic.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Fun2BMe]

if god is real, how come i get bullied at school for being depressed and a whore??? and how come i got raped??? and touched by my granddad??? and beaten by my dad and big brother like hell everyday??

 

I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD, BECAUSE IF HE WAS REAL, WHY DO PEOPLE GET RAPED AND HURT EVERYDAY!!!!!!

 

i always ask myself.. why me, whyd you pick me and not my classmate that sits in front of me?

 

pfft life sux aye

 

God didn't pick any of those things to happen, let alone pick them to happen to you. God gives man free will. The people who have hurt you have chosen to hurt you themselves, and not God. He doesn't control us as though we are puppets and with strings being pulled. If that were the case, life would have no meaning and he wouldn't choose for people to be atheists. Those who believe in God believe in free will and those who blame God for everything fail to find others and themselves accountable for their actions.

 

God gives people the tools to do the right thing and to do good things, but it is ultimately the choice of each individual as to what they do with those tools. Just like if someone throws a drowning person a life preserver, it is up to the person whether or not to use it or to drown. Some of us have all the tools to succeed and do good, but we either fail to see them or make use of them in a good way, then complain and blame it on God that he must be at fault for bad things that happen instead of pointing the finger at ones own self or to others responsible for the actions.

 

You got raped because the man used his penis in a bad way against you. He did, not God who only gave him the penis to use for good purposes. Same with your grandad. He was born with two legs and everything good, but he chose to exercise his God given free will in a bad way so you have every right to be mad at him, but why at God who didn't do what your grandad did to you. Why allow bad people to make you hate the being who is all good and loving? That is sad to misdirect your anger, hurt and hate in that way, instead of praying to heal and be the good person you are capable of being. I've been abused too but I'd never blame God for an evil person's actions.

[DutchGuy]

This is such bullcrap.

How can you people thank god for every little dumb positive thing that happens to you, and when something bad happens it's never god's fault...

Found my keys: "thank you god"

Tsunami: "It must have a reason"

Raped: "Man's free will"

Rapist becomes Christian: "If god can forgive him, I can too"

 

And then, to top it all off, if somebody escapes their murderer or rapist:"God gave them the power to flee".

If your god is such a unreliable guy, I'm better off alone.

At least atheists never get hurt waiting for god to help 'em.

[Moose]

Yes it is BULLCRAP!

 

You people twist things around so much, it's no wonder you don't know your heart from a hole in the wall.....

God shouldn't have prevented the abuse that caused her attitude because her attitude retrospectively justifies the abuse heaped upon her in the first place?

I never said that! You take things out of context and turn them around just like you like to do with scripture.

 

Why do I have to come back here and spell everything out for you people? When I said: "why would God prevent these things with the attitude you have already?" I didn't mean that He should, or would. I meant, what does she expect with the attitude she has? How can God work in her life when she's so negative about Him?

 

I guarentee you all that if she did know Christ, her life would be completely different and thus preventing some of these things from happening to her.

At least atheists never get hurt waiting for god to help 'em.

:lmao:This has got to be the funniest thing I've EVER heard!:lmao:

 

Thanks for the laugh!

[LaughMachine]

because this is a journey.

[disgracian]

Why do I have to come back here and spell everything out for you people? When I said: "why would God prevent these things with the attitude you have already?" I didn't mean that He should, or would. I meant, what does she expect with the attitude she has? How can God work in her life when she's so negative about Him?

Dude, you just finished telling everybody that I got it backwards, and then in the next breath you totally reinforce my point, which was that her negative attitude towards god is after the fact (a result of it), not before. What you're effectively suggesting, is that God allowed nasty things to happen because He knew that she'd be angry later on because of it. Which is completely stupid, of course.

I guarentee you all that if she did know Christ, her life would be completely different and thus preventing some of these things from happening to her.

You say that with more certainty than you could ever honestly possess. You know for a fact that God wouldn't have let somebody rape her had she been Christian, but since she wasn't He changed His mind and decided it wasn't worth the effort to intervene?

 

Maybe you mean something else, but how else can having different beliefs in your head change whether or not somebody is going to rape or abuse you? For all you know, her life could have turned out worse. And if it did, you'd be here shouting in bold and underline about how either the Christian life isn't meant to be a cakewalk and that they have tests and hardships same as anyone else, or that she mustn't be fully Christian if bad things are happening.

 

It doesn't matter what happens, Christians find a way to rationalise anything, even if Rationalisation A is the polar opposite of Rationalisation B.

 

Cheers,

D.

[bigheartkindsoul]

Why does God let bad things happen to innocent people? this is why I am agnostic.

 

I donno I am good nice person and had alot of *****e happen to me in my life even when I was a child/teenager I was beaten up regulary by my stepfather, then by a LT partner too,

[Moose]

Dude, you just finished telling everybody that I got it backwards, and then in the next breath you totally reinforce my point, which was that her negative attitude towards god is after the fact (a result of it), not before. What you're effectively suggesting, is that God allowed nasty things to happen because He knew that she'd be angry later on because of it. Which is completely stupid, of course.

DUUUUDEE....sorry....had to do that....

 

I would've answered your post a long time ago, however, I do have businesses to run....but please, allow me to explain even further....to the........... since you're not catching my point.

 

You're, "arguement" is:

God shouldn't have prevented the abuse that caused her attitude because her attitude retrospectively justifies the abuse heaped upon her in the first place?

Her attitude towards God is in fact a result of her life experiences. You've made that point, and it is one that I will agree with. HOWEVER......all of these things did not all happen to her all at once:

how come i get bullied at school for being depressed and a whore??? and how come i got raped??? and touched by my granddad??? and beaten by my dad and big brother like hell everyday??

These things, (no matter how they happened chronologically), were handled under her own power, and she didn't have help outside of herself. (need proof? re-read her post about her family). She didn't have God, and it's obvious she still does not. You could say, "God had nothing to do with it", but He gave her the same gift He gave us all.....the free will to choose our own paths.....do act a certain way, to handle things differently in this world...

 

Again, even though God has/had the ability to prevent all of these things happening to this person, He certainly won't if she doesn't/didn't come to Him first.

 

And by, "prevent" I don't mean you'd see a semi-transparent hand swooping all the hazards of life out of her way so she can walk through life without any problems.......there will be trials and tribulations....as you pointed out here:

you'd be here shouting in bold and underline about how either the Christian life isn't meant to be a cakewalk and that they have tests and hardships same as anyone else, or that she mustn't be fully Christian if bad things are happening.

DANG IT D!!......You were ALMOST there!! So close though......shoot....

 

You see....there's no such thing as, "fully" Christian, or, "partial" Christian....either you are, or you aren't. There's also a big difference between a, "Believer" and a, "Follower".....understand where I'm going with this?

 

Followers take, "Bad" things and God turns them into opportunities.

[disgracian]

So what kind of prevention or intervention are you talking about then, now that we've ruled out the semi-transparent hand?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Sean0775]

I lost a friend a few months back. He had COPD and was born with it, never smoked a cigarette in his life. I knew him for about 6 years or so and watched him slowly waste away until he had to get a double lung transplant. I then watched his condition go back and forth until he finally passed away due to several hollow sports in his new lungs collapsing, resulting in him violently vomiting blood. He was 22 years old. Somehow, he managed to keep his faith in God, and his faith actually grew the sicker he got. I never understood it, but I gave up trying to disprove the bible to people a long time ago. Maybe it was that faith that let him keep a mostly positive attitude through the whole ordeal, as I know I never saw him whine, complain, cry, or anything of the like. He just wasn't the depressive type, regardless what happened, and he never wanted people to get depressed over what was happening to him.

 

I'm actually fighting back tears as I type this out of respect for him. I was one of the few that didn't cry at the funeral because I knew that isn't what he would have wanted to see had he been there. As much as he hated depressing over things, I think he hated seeing it in others even more. I would be willing to commit some horrible atrocities to have him back, but we all know it doesn't work that way, and in the end that isn't what he would have wanted.

 

Enough of this though, typing this downer of a post is a disgrace. I suppose I'll get out of the house and enjoy my days off now, because that's what he would have done. If anyone out there has a bottle of Sailor Jerry Spiced Rum, have a shot for my departed friend Mark. It was his favorite and he drank it straight from the bottle, because that was how he rolled. Yes, that's definitely enough, time to go enjoy life.

[Moose]

So what kind of prevention or intervention are you talking about then, now that we've ruled out the semi-transparent hand?

 

Cheers,

D.

This is where most non-believers start having the most trouble understanding.......but, when someone genuinely accepts Christ as their Saviour, His Holy Spirit takes residence in our heart. It's truly a supernatural experience. I know it sounds impossible, but it is the Holy Spirit within us that compels us to, "behave" differently.

 

BUT, one must yeild to Him, and listen to Him first. The parable of the seed sower illustrates perfectly what I mean:

 

Matthew 13:3-8

 

"3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop--a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

[disgracian]

Probably because nobody ever actually explains anything. We've ruled out direct intervention but we now have a holy spirit in one of our internal organs. How does this prevent people from getting abused?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

Probably because nobody ever actually explains anything. We've ruled out direct intervention but we now have a holy spirit in one of our internal organs. How does this prevent people from getting abused?

Having the Holy Spirit is direct intervention. "Father / Son / Holy Spirit".....All Are One and The Same.

 

How does this prevent people from getting abused? If we listen and follow the Holy Spirit, we would be more apt NOT to be in a situation condusive of abuse. We are drawn to fellow followers, and to enviroments free of immoral practices.....