Why does God let bad things happen to innocent people?

[Yosef]

When we were baptized, God promised that we would live with pain, and we would suffer. We suffer so we become closer to God, not to distance ourselves from him.

[disgracian]

How does this prevent people from getting abused? If we listen and follow the Holy Spirit, we would be more apt NOT to be in a situation condusive of abuse.

That would make sense if we could choose our family (i.e., only ones who aren't pedophiles) or our circumstances but we can't.

We are drawn to fellow followers, and to enviroments free of immoral practices.....

Like Reverend Aldridge's flock? Cheap shot, yes, but in case you haven't noticed, Christians have the same incarceration and divorce rates as anyone else. They all might put on their nicest suit and play righteous every Sunday, but the truth is that, on the whole, they're no more or less moral than anyone else.

 

Cheers,

D.

[sweetem]

 

I just think it's unfair to blame God for terrible things.....especially if you don't even believe in Him.....quote]

 

People blame God because it is easy to blame God. People assume that because God knows all, and has a plan for your life, that every small detail is planned out. But, God didn't make this man do those things to that girl. Sadly, its free will, and God does not control that.

 

But with enough faith, God can guide you to find the strength to forgive the people who have hurt you. The hate and blame that she has for this man, and for God, will not set her free. As the great Will Smith said (ha) "let God deal with the things they do, because hate in your heart will consume you too"

[DutchGuy]

People blame God because it is easy to blame God. People assume that because God knows all, and has a plan for your life, that every small detail is planned out. But, God didn't make this man do those things to that girl. Sadly, its free will, and God does not control that.

 

But with enough faith, God can guide you to find the strength to forgive the people who have hurt you. The hate and blame that she has for this man, and for God, will not set her free. As the great Will Smith said (ha) "let God deal with the things they do, because hate in your heart will consume you too"

 

Nonbelievers don't get angry with god, they get angry with the church, with christianity.

Because it's frustrating to hear that their pain is their own fault because they either; didn't have enough faith to prevent the pain from happening to them or; don't have enough faith to soften the hurting.

While on the other hand they get told that the good things in life are all gifts from god.

 

Why the pressure to acknowledge god, why not just live a decent life?

Hell, I live a more christian life than most christians I know, with the moral bonus that I do good because I feel the urge to do good, not because I want to go to paradise and will do anything for it.

You people think you go to heaven? Eternity = Hell, no matter where you are.

 

If god wanted to, he could stop this girl from getting hurt, it would be no trouble at all to do so. One's free will can only do harm if their environment allows them to and environment is easily controlable for a god.

So it seems that god just doesn't give a damn.

 

When atheists die, whatever pain they have stops.

Wouldn't want to spend eternity with memories of war or abuse, true redemption lies within death.

[Moose]

Because it's frustrating to hear that their pain is their own fault because they either; didn't have enough faith to prevent the pain from happening to them or; don't have enough faith to soften the hurting.

yawn.....you haven't been paying attention have you?

 

Nobody ever said it was their fault. We are saying that man has free will to do whatever, whenever, to whomever he/she wants. This girl was a victum. And no, she couldn't choose her family, but she does have the choice, and FREE WILL to report them and get out.....

While on the other hand they get told that the good things in life are all gifts from god.

Where do you see that??? Where did anybody say that everything good in her life is from God? As far as I can tell, this person has the attitude that there isn't one thing good or decent in her life. Maybe you mean something else and need to clarify?

Why the pressure to acknowledge god, why not just live a decent life?

Pressure? There isn't any pressure in acknowledging God at all.....I think maybe what you mean is why the, humility???

Hell, I live a more christian life than most christians I know,

I can tell from your language what a testimony you have......

with the moral bonus that I do good because I feel the urge to do good

Have you ever asked where does that urge come from, and what are you gaining of it?

When atheists die, whatever pain they have stops.

Wouldn't want to spend eternity with memories of war or abuse, true redemption lies within death.

I personally think you're in for a VERY big surprise......

[Yosef]

It's not that God doesn't care. He uses events, such as death or illness, to learn from them and to grow closer to him.

 

Perfect eternity is not the same as just eternity. Eternity-eternity is just living on earth, a place of pain and suffering, for all of time. Heaven is living in a realm of perfect peace, tranquility, happiness, etc. All of your pains are removed, and all of your worries and stresses erased, much like that of dying, but when you're dead, you don't feel happiness. You don't feel ANYTHING, cuz you're dead.

 

There ARE a lot of wrong churches out there, who teach the wrong message of god, or teach it in a way that brings pain to others. There are corruptions in the church, obviously, but not all churches. Many churches are still doing a great job spreading the love and word of God.

 

Why live a decent life without God? Because it's just decent, and nothing more. Life with God is extraordinary.

 

Being Christian, I don't desire to live eternally in perfect peace. That's the last thing I care about. I just want to make people happy, also the will to do something good for someone else, the same as you. I'm afraid of death. Why should I be afraid of moving onto a perfect paradise? Because there is still good on this earth that I would like to see and would like to bring forth. There is also pain, but pain is what allows us to grow and evolve.

 

Bad things happen because it brings forth Good things. When someone is in a crash, you see the pain and only focus on the negative. That's what the devil wants. You don't care about the people trying to save this person's life, and you don't care that everyone else is fine, you only focus on the pain, and it brings forth hate. When you hate, you hate God for bringing you this pain, because you think it's all his fault.

[disgracian]

Nobody ever said it was their fault.

You have. Or at the least, you attributed her attitude as the reason for God's inactivity on the matter.

And no, she couldn't choose her family, but she does have the choice, and FREE WILL to report them and get out.....

In other words, it's all up to her. Which is what I and many others have been arguing here against you all this time. Nice to see you've finally come around and embraced reason.

Where do you see that??? Where did anybody say that everything good in her life is from God?

Lonelybird has on many occasions. It's a common Christian mantra actually. I've no idea why you're jumping up and down over this.

Pressure? There isn't any pressure in acknowledging God at all

As a non-Christian living amongst Christians, you better believe there is. I post on a social support forum for non-theists and there are plenty of people who have to hide their atheism for fear of being run out of home and disowned.

Have you ever asked where does that urge come from, and what are you gaining of it?

If it had anything to do with god, then they wouldn't likely be atheist. In my opinion, the urge to do good comes from acknowledging the reality that all humans are fundamentally the same, that we are a social creature who has evolved to work in groups and societies and thus form bonds of empathy. We get a good feeling from helping others because it benefits everybody, and at the back of our minds is the thought "one day that person in help could be me".

 

Cheers,

D.

[White Flower]

sometimes I think hard times serve to build our charators, maybe it's side-effect

Well said! And just with one sentence:rolleyes:

[disgracian]

Hard times can make us stronger, or destroy us.

 

Everything else is after-the-fact rationalisation: Satan attacking us or God testing us, the difference between the two is usually based only on the end result, hence "after-the-fact". In truth, nobody knows and the only real answer is "things are the way they are". The why is a game for philosophers and theologians.

 

Cheers,

D.

[White Flower]

Why do bad things happen to good people?

 

 

That's why bad things happen to good people...because God wants to see a change in this mess of a planet, and only the good people have the ability to show us how much better we can all be, despite adversity.

Excellent answer, Dazed! Just look at all the good people here who are helping others.

[White Flower]

Originally Posted by Fun2BMe

Maybe in a past life they were the bad ones and they need to suffer to learn compassion or pay the dues of a past transgression.

 

Originally posted by The Collector>

Don't you think it's a little offensive to suggest to people suffering because of things beyond their power that they might deserve it for sins of a past life?

 

Well, if you only believe in Christianity or another traditional religion. I think what Fun meant was the idea of karmic causality and each soul returning to earth for improvement and enlightening. Try reading Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls by Dr. Michael Newton. His books document hundreds of patients life between lives (in the spirit world) while under hypnosis. It is truly fascinating reading if your mind is open enough.

 

One of the most interesting revelations that came out of his interviews with patients under hypnosis is that souls know which body they are going into before they're born and they know about the rape, beating, rich life, etc., in advance. They can refuse this if they want to but it will only be a hindrance to their growth. Yes, free will exists here, too. The amnesiac block at birth is what makes our future unknown, which in turn, makes our learning experience that much richer. I would love to be hypnotized by him. Hope I didn't come to a Christians Only thread:)

[DutchGuy]

Where do you see that??? Where did anybody say that everything good in her life is from God?

 

Have you ever asked where does that urge come from, and what are you gaining of it?

 

I mention something good about myself and it's immediately attributed to your god.

 

As for my language... that's nothing compared to the deaths by all those christian soldiers in the Middle East.

Hey, I am all for that war, I'm just saying that I'm not the one who is breaking one of the commandments over there.

[Moose]

I mention something good about myself and it's immediately attributed to your god.

On this thread, or in life in general? If in this thread, can you point it out to me?

[DutchGuy]

On this thread, or in life in general? If in this thread, can you point it out to me?

 

I did, I mentioned that I have the urge to do good, which is in itself a good thing. Even that little positive element was instantly attributed to your god. What happened to free will in that case?

 

Me:

While on the other hand they get told that the good things in life are all gifts from god.

 

You:

Where did anybody say that everything good in her life is from God?

 

later on:

 

Me:

Hell, I live a more christian life than most christians I know, with the moral bonus that I do good because I feel the urge to do good

 

You:

Have you ever asked where does that urge come from, and what are you gaining of it?

[Moose]

I did, I mentioned that I have the urge to do good, which is in itself a good thing. Even that little positive element was instantly attributed to your god. What happened to free will in that case?

I asked you where you think that urge comes from. It was a legitimate question. I was in no way shape or form implying that that was from God.

[DutchGuy]

I asked you where you think that urge comes from. It was a legitimate question. I was in no way shape or form implying that that was from God.

 

It's intrinsic to my personality, in nature and nurture.

Nature: Social behaviour is stimulated by a healthy mind because it improves our chances to reproduce with the 'fittest' partners.

Nurture: To teach your offspring social skills adds to their 'fitness'.

[Moose]

It's intrinsic to my personality, in nature and nurture.

Nature: Social behaviour is stimulated by a healthy mind because it improves our chances to reproduce with the 'fittest' partners.

Nurture: To teach your offspring social skills adds to their 'fitness'.

Interesting response. Primitive, (my opinion), but interesting....

[amaysngrace]

I don't understand something.

 

If Moose started this thread requesting that all non-believers refrain from posting so that this thread could stay on topic and not become a debate, why won't people respect that?

[Enema]

I don't understand something.

 

If Moose started this thread requesting that all non-believers refrain from posting so that this thread could stay on topic and not become a debate, why won't people respect that?

 

It's a bit of a silly request on a public forum where everyone wants to inject their opinion.

 

Would you rather read a few good pages of contrasting ideas like we have here, or a few pages of echoed sentiments from people that all hold the same beliefs?

[knaveman]

Bad things happen to everyone, it's all part of life. Good things happen to bad people too, why doesn't anyone ever ask that question? You cannot have good without bad, call it what you like but it is all just life.

[DutchGuy]

Bad things happen to everyone, it's all part of life. Good things happen to bad people too, why doesn't anyone ever ask that question? You cannot have good without bad, call it what you like but it is all just life.

 

Because it doesn't make sense. Religious people claim that god offers protection and comfort yet there's not much to support that.

And if other people's free will and their consequently actions are so uncontrolable for god, then what can god actually do for you?

Why, and this is the question that even religious people can ask themselves, why would you say that god is there to protect and comfort you when there is absolutely nothing that he can do to stop you from getting hurt by other people?

If it's spititual comfort... my mom can do that.

What is it, that he can do that your loved ones can't?

 

And I'm sorry, that I hijacked the thread but after some time I forgot that it was a topic for believers.

[amaysngrace]

Would you rather read a few good pages of contrasting ideas like we have here, or a few pages of echoed sentiments from people that all hold the same beliefs?

 

I'm not confrontational by nature. So of course I'd rather read different views on the subject rather than read about different opinions challenging the original idea.

 

I had thought had this stayed on topic new levels of understanding could have been reached, because it is a very deep topic.

 

The spirituality debate has been beaten to death IMO. And I've yet to see any stop believing or any begin to.

 

I see all this as just a distraction.

[disgracian]

Most verily said, DutchGuy.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Yosef]

Because it doesn't make sense. Religious people claim that god offers protection and comfort yet there's not much to support that.

And if other people's free will and their consequently actions are so uncontrolable for god, then what can god actually do for you?

Why, and this is the question that even religious people can ask themselves, why would you say that god is there to protect and comfort you when there is absolutely nothing that he can do to stop you from getting hurt by other people?

If it's spititual comfort... my mom can do that.

What is it, that he can do that your loved ones can't?

 

And I'm sorry, that I hijacked the thread but after some time I forgot that it was a topic for believers.

 

God promised suffering to his believers when they were baptised. As a follower of christ, you suffer for your beliefs, and by doing so you are given a place in heaven.

 

Well, your loved ones can't give you a place in heaven, for one. Not everyone's loved ones give a crap about what someone else in their family is feeling, but God offers love to all of his children, not being biased to one person or the other.

 

Think about it, if we were never faced with difficulties, our faith wouldn't grow. God lets bad things happen to good AND bad people, so that their faith may grow into a stronger faith.

[disgracian]

Heaven is imaginary, so that one is ruled out. "Loved ones" by definition means they love you which means they care.

 

The Bible God's love is extremely biased and fickle, far more so than many humans I've met. He went so far as to have His own "Chosen People" whom He would direct to slaughter other groups of people (obviously not His favourites), and confine all of His interventions, blessings and prophets to them at the exclusion of the rest of the planet.

 

If God truly is the Father or Creator of us all, does it not strike you as quite appalling that He spent a lot of time throughout human history playing one group against another, ordering genocide, infanticide, brutal retributions, all for His own glory? Don't you find that the least bit repulsive?

 

Cheers,

D.