being faithful to ONLY ONE girl ?

[SimpleSoul]

Hi folks.

I do discuss this with my therapist, but since no breakthroughs have been made, I hope I can ask for any advice here.

 

I'm a friendly, social, open person who hates lies and just wants everyone to get along (naive?). I'm a hetero guy but I've always gotten along best with girls, since very young I've had better friendships with girls than guys. I'm quite capable of holding my own but I've never been interested in joining in the usual male macho behaviours.

 

Now 30-something, I've had several long-term relationships, a couple of which were defacto live-together ones. But there always seems to be a limit on my interest in the relationships. I'm never totally serious, my heart is never fully commited.

 

Apart from my partner I always enjoy having other female friends who I flirt with and I think I engage in emotional affairs with them. Every time I've been in a relationship it's been the same. I don't hate being in the relationships, I don't want to leave, I am just *always* emotionally connected to other girls as well.

 

In the past I've tried keeping all of this fairly quiet, but as I get older I get less happy with lies - I just want to be honest with everyone and say: "look - this is who I am".

 

I'm not a particularly possessive person either - if a girl chats/socialises with another guy, that's her choice, even if she's my partner.

 

Can I keep living this way? Dare I hope that I could live honestly like this?

 

It's been suggested that I'm just waiting for the "right girl" - but deep down I feel that suddenly deciding to ignore all the other wonderful girls out there, to myopically focus on just one, would be gross wastage.

 

Why do you think I behave like this?

[wizer]

It's been suggested that I'm just waiting for the "right girl" - but deep down I feel that suddenly deciding to ignore all the other wonderful girls out there, to myopically focus on just one, would be gross wastage.

 

Why do you think I behave like this?

 

You probably haven't met the right girl. When you do, and you have those strong feelings that people get, you won't have to "decide to ignore all those wonderful girls out there", it will just happen by itself.

 

That is of course assuming you do meet a woman like that. Otherwise, most of the rest of your life will be spent in superficial relationships, or you will have a primary partner who you will cheat on because you are not really commited to her.

 

It could also be that you suffer from some undiagnosed personality disorders. One that comes to mind is "borderline personality disorder". Do a Google search and see if any of the descriptors apply to you.

[underpants]

Hi folks.

I do discuss this with my therapist, but since no breakthroughs have been made, I hope I can ask for any advice here.

 

I'm a friendly, social, open person who hates lies and just wants everyone to get along (naive?). I'm a hetero guy but I've always gotten along best with girls, since very young I've had better friendships with girls than guys. I'm quite capable of holding my own but I've never been interested in joining in the usual male macho behaviours.

 

Now 30-something, I've had several long-term relationships, a couple of which were defacto live-together ones. But there always seems to be a limit on my interest in the relationships. I'm never totally serious, my heart is never fully commited.

 

Apart from my partner I always enjoy having other female friends who I flirt with and I think I engage in emotional affairs with them. Every time I've been in a relationship it's been the same. I don't hate being in the relationships, I don't want to leave, I am just *always* emotionally connected to other girls as well.

 

In the past I've tried keeping all of this fairly quiet, but as I get older I get less happy with lies - I just want to be honest with everyone and say: "look - this is who I am".

 

I'm not a particularly possessive person either - if a girl chats/socialises with another guy, that's her choice, even if she's my partner.

 

Can I keep living this way? Dare I hope that I could live honestly like this?

 

It's been suggested that I'm just waiting for the "right girl" - but deep down I feel that suddenly deciding to ignore all the other wonderful girls out there, to myopically focus on just one, would be gross wastage.

 

Why do you think I behave like this?

 

Selfishness and fear?

 

Sure you could find women who would agree to an open relationship. Chances are that you might even fall for the 'wrong' woman to further prove to you inner self that you should not fully invest. Feeding the need to sabatoge the idea of a fully commited relationship.

 

Of course some of your girlfriends may really think they can be the one to fix you. Then you break more hearts and dig that depression hole a little deeper. Just how it goes.

 

Perhaps if you hold onto past relationships as well as surveying all peripheral options you allow yourself to never become involved to deeply with one person. So busy holding onto, attaining and keeping it all, while a great high, is very difficult to maintain for any length of time. What if you could redirect that energy, retrain the trigger response into a deeper relationship with one woman who you admire? Probably a fear is at the core.

 

Engaging in friendly/flirty relationships with other women while in a relationship is a distraction, ego boost...whatever. Triggers that boost and sabatoge all at the same time.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Trialbyfire]

Work on your internal self-esteem by accepting what you're unwilling to change and change what you can. Once you're happier with yourself, the need for the constant ego boost will abate to a more manageable and healthy level.

[Rebecca_K]

you sound like an ex i once had. he loved women and had plenty of female friends. like other silly girls, back then, i was naive to think that my love could possibly change him.

 

sometimes i think ppl use that idea that its just because he or she hasn't found the right one yet, that's why they're not committed, as an excuse for something else, a hope of some sort. but i think in reality, it's more like that person is on a constant high from the attention of others. sure you can find the "right person" now, but years from now? i think the same pattern will repeat itself. just my 2 cents.

[SimpleSoul]

Thanks for your replies so far - food for thought.

 

Some clarifications...

 

Rebecca_K, actually it wasn't me suggesting that I just needed to "find the right one" - that was some of the other posters. It sounds a popular idea that there's a perfect partner for each of us out there, but I'm not sure that holds for everyone. I think I'm more focused on interacting with people as respected friends rather than building a future for two.

 

Certainly I'm at the reflective stage now where I look back and see the cycles that have already repeated ...

 

I'm talking about perhaps being more upfront in the future - tattooing a warning sign on my forehead or something :-)

Is there a problem in me choosing to perhaps not get married, to choose not to "partner" someone, and being upfront and honest about this?

 

Is the "boost" still sinful if it doesn't involve deception or stabotage of another relationship? Having multiple close friends doesn't depress me. :-)

 

Fear ... well certainly that has also been suggested as an explanation, but so far that isn't ringing any bells. I guess it could be some kind of fear that isn't automatically obvious.

 

"Borderline Personality Disorder" ?? Sounds dangerous. Is that like being a psychopath? Maybe I'm a psychopath!!! I'll look it up. (and get some beautiful business cards .....)

[norajane]

If you're going to go down the never getting married route, then yes, you need to tell the women you are dating that you don't want marriage. Otherwise, you are wasting their time if they are hoping to date a guy who can become a partner.

[crazy_grl]

I'm wondering why you even need to be in a relationship at all. Maybe relationships just aren't right for you. Do you even want to be in one? SO far, it doesn't really sound like you don't really get anything out of them.

[squeak]

Can you give specificities on how you interact with other female friends?

You say close friends-does that mean you hang out exclusively? Talk on the phone several times a week? Do they happen to be attractive..for example you would date them if not already in a relationship?

And when you say you don't want to lie anymore, could you give examples of that?

Have you found yourself consistently hiding events/phonecalls?

 

And finally-What is your ideal situation? What is even keeping you in a one on one relationship at all?

 

I am trying to get the big picture here to understand better!

Thanks.

[SimpleSoul]

Hi all

 

Yes it's a good question to ask what I actually get out of being in a relationship. (Assuming here you mean an exclusive commited relationship - ie with 1 person). Hmmm I'll have to think on it more, but I don't think I get anything vital. In the past I've been happy to live by myself or in shared accomodation.... oooh that's interesting... never noticed this before but it seems that I mainly regard a partnership as one's living arrangements. (I presume it's supposed to be more than that)

 

Of course a partnership with someone also offers me support/companionship and an increased social life (with their friends), but I get this through other friends as well.

 

What's keeping me in a relationship? Hmmm well I don't like hurting nice people or losing friends. I have discussed this sort of issue with people before though, and good points are made: you can hurt people by staying or doing nothing, and you can't go through life walking on eggshells - you can't avoid hurting everyone. I've gotten over this and broken up with people before, but it's never minor.

 

If I'd done this self-reflection on my habits and cycles before I got into my current relationship, I don't think I would have started it. I think. But I would have wanted to be close friends.

 

Sometimes I wonder if society's constructs of dating/marriage (and gender!) are really as static as they are portrayed, if perhaps the modern world is now encouraging people to be individuals, to have an increased freedom that comes from being uncommitted. (not good OR bad). Amongst my friends are many "asexual" adults who are fairly social but have been single for the decade or so that I have known them. I don't think they feel any need to partner up with anyone. Perhaps I'm just like them, except I've always been pretty affectionate with people.

 

How do I interact with my female friends? Yes I do hang out with them exclusively when I can arrange it, usually that's easiest during the working day - either meeting for lunch or "coffee breaks". Extensive chatting online. Occasionally when fortune favours me, I'll get the chance to spend time with them out of hours. Some are more in contact than others, sometimes they drift out of contact, sometimes they drift back in.

 

Yes, they are all attractive, but I think I have a fairly broad range of what I find attractive. Once I even saw photos of a girl before I met her and was shocked as she appeared to be quite unwell. That was turned out to be only "skin-deep" and later we became quite flirty friends.

 

But would I date them if not in a relationship? Yes - if the rule is that I have to date someone.

 

Lying/Honesty...

The largest part of this is emotional honesty - both to my partner and these other girls.

I don't make full disclosure to my partner about how close I am to these girls, that I meet up with them etc (nothing physical - yet). I'd like to be perfectly candid about them. (Maybe that's impossible while in an "exclusive" relationship?)

I don't discuss the nature of my current relationship with these girls, although they know I'm in a relationship - but I think honesty would be better.

A girl once told me that there's this concept of "safe guys" - guys they are happy to be best friends with, flirt with, tease etc because they know that the guy is going out with someone else and so, they think, restrained from making advances on them. If the guy reveals that he is not quite so restrained then they might be shocked enough to reconsider the friendship (or not). I want to be honest that I am not so "safe". If that makes them decide to have less to do with me, I guess I'd have to wear that.

[squeak]

One thing that stands out is you don't seem to cleave to one person above all others. In what would be considered a normal situation, a person would find themself becoming more and more interested in one person out of the group. It is not a decision or a philisophy or a mind set, it just happens!

 

It seems like you don't have that in you to cleave to one person, and somehow, by default, the others seem less interesting.

 

In most relationships(one hopes) that whatever set of friends existed that could pose a problem to the main pair bonding will drop away due to each partner shifting more focus naturally on their own partner.

 

I don't think you can fake that for long, you also mentioned "when you saw her picture" before meeting her-so these are not on the job friends? You are actively seeking out "friends" on the internet. That is a big deal, quite a big secret to keep from your GF. Assuming I'm reading correct?

 

Tthat has got to be eating away at you a little? I'm not sure why you feel the need to have a "main" girl in this case? Why not just keep all your flirty friends and be honest with the main one that this is how you want to live your life.

 

Be true to yourself. And you already stated you don't disclose the full nature of your relationship to your friends (but they already know you are in a relationship-so I'm confused what more needs to be disclosed??), how will being more upfront with everyone really change anything?

 

Maybe secretly you are afraid the girls will pursue more with you and you'll be stuck lying and deciving again?

[SimpleSoul]

Just a quick correction, better replies later...

 

I don't think you can fake that for long, you also mentioned "when you saw her picture" before meeting her-so these are not on the job friends? You are actively seeking out "friends" on the internet. That is a big deal, quite a big secret to keep from your GF. Assuming I'm reading correct?

 

Ahh no, sorry As hi-tech as we all might be these days, sometimes friends show you photographs of other friends and later on you meet those friends. (Perhaps this makes me old-fashionned!)

[squeak]

Oh-gotcha!

Simplesoul -to answer your original question why I think you are like this ....

 

You are attached to being unattached.

 

It is more than possible there is only one woman you trust in this whole world: your mother. You are in effect married to her.

 

It is also possible the two of you had a little extra close relationship.

 

I would suggest you talk to your therapist about those things. Why hasn't the therapist figured it out? Maybe you need a new one. Also, if I could recommend being upfront with everyone. Your current relationships will flourish more without the burden of feeling like a false person, yes?

[sally4sara]

I think the thing that has struck me the most about the OP's posts is....

 

You come off like you are hamming it up and anyone responding to your thread is your audience. The life you say you lead probably has hurt quite a few people who have attempted to have an actual relationship with you. You don't seem impressed by that. Rather, what is troubling you is how to continue behaving in a way that will make someone feel they are not important to you and you are not committed to them. You only seem interested in how to absolve you from any responsibility by agreeing up front that you will treat them half handed. No one can agree to that up front. When two people start a relationship, love is not established and therefore neither of you can say what will or won't bother you down the line once the more involved emotions come in to play.

The fact that you want your female friends to also know that you have this situation suggests you are really only wanting them to not banish you to "friend zone" purgatory and keep you in mind should they ever want to ummm, connect for more than coffee?

I'd say you are narcissistic. Clinically, not just trying to insult you here.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

What does your therapist suggest you do with your girlfriend/friends?

 

Does your girlfriend know about your friends?

[SimpleSoul]

Sorry, didn't mean to be away from the forum so long. Sometimes life gets busy :-)

 

Yes, at this point of my life, I look back and wonder why I've always picked a "main girl". I think it's been because I felt that's what I was supposed to do. When I've been single I've had more freedom to hang out with my other female friends, so I get closer to one because I'm having a great time with her, so I think that means I'm supposed to be "in a relationship" with her. But then belatedly I remember that I have just as great a time with another and feel like I made a hasty commitment. Looking back, that seems a messy cycle.

 

I'm not sure how things work in the cultures where you guys live, but in the circles I live in there's no dating, you're either going out with someone or not, there's no middle ground. I've heard stories from a previous generation where you'd go "date" for a while, with no commitment, often with a different person on different nights and that was regarded as perfectly decent and normal (as long as you eventually picked a life partner). That sounds pretty cool and not like how things work now. I don't really feel like I fit with the way things "are supposed to be".

 

What more do I feel I need to admit to my friends about my "main" relationship? That I'm not deeply committed to it.

Not sure if I'm rehashing myself but I guess I love and care for my friends but not past some certain point that people are supposed to cross when they pick a life partner. I feel the same level of love for my girlfriend as I do for my best female friends.

Perhaps deep down I am a loner who fears that his individuality would be lost in the sort of relationship that would occur after that certain point. Is this wrong, or evil? Must it be changed? Yes, perhaps it is narcissism, but what if I just came clean to everyone that this is how I am?

 

I would feel that it would be best to tell girls interested in me "I don't do relationships - we can be great friends but we will never be an item". If that takes the wind out of their sails and puts them off, well that's my bad luck, at least I haven't wasted their time. If they're great friends but then decide to take up with some guy who will give them a relationship - then that's great news, good for them.

I'd prefer to do that rather than string some girl along who thinks that I will commit to her for life.

 

My mother eh? A bit of the old Oedipus Complex? (Isn't that the first thing therapists are supposed to suggest? hehe)

Hmmm maybe, I guess my mother was always more of my role model than my father, but I don't idolise her though. I don't regard her as one of my friends or even want to share my private life with her.

 

Yes, I don't want to be a false person. I just want to be simple and honest about who I am and how I feel. I don't feel I should lie anymore to fit a mould made for someone else.

 

BEB: My therapist urges me to be very cautious about my close female friends and not to do anything rash. My therapist also has the impression that I'm not very attached/possessive to my girlfriend. My girlfriend knows of the existence of my friends but does not know the depth of my feelings for them, nor of my limited feelings towards her.

 

Sally4sara: sorry? hamming what up? My questions?? I've tried to be honest and upfront. No point in doing otherwise.

Yes I think I have hurt people in my life with my dishonesty about my feelings. I'd like to change that.

Your comments are disarming in their clarity. If everything you say is true (which it might be) it sounds like I'm back to square 1 and would be best off joining a monastary. I can see a definite cycle in my past where I have lots of fun, deep friendship and caring with girls but am not interested in committing to an exclusive relationship with one. Maybe it's a fear, but honestly it just feels like I'm not interested, like eating the same food forever. I thought I was onto a solution with this "disclaimer" idea, but perhaps as you point out it's fatally flawed. In that case I'm back to scratching my head, trying to find a way not to feel like a liar to everyone including myself. :-(

[sally4sara]

You've cleared things up a bit. If you will be up front about not wanting a serious relationship then what you say you would prefer to do is fine.

It was the fact that you had gone to the extent of living with someone while still wishing for this life. That is not the greatest idea and too full of potential messiness. You cannot move in with someone intimately and expect them to be aware of you lack of want for a commitment.

There is nothing wrong with being upfront with everyone equally.

The hamming it up came from the impression of living dually and not seeming to upset by past hurt you have caused your "main females". It made it sound like you enjoyed the benefits of living with someone (lower bills, sex on tap, companionship) but wanted to also have the confirmed bachelor life whenever you stepped out the door. If you have realized that cohabitation isn't something you can live up to and do not wish to pursue again till something changes with your views, I see nothing wrong with your preferred way of life.

[JCD]

I think it's a simple case of not having the right girl that would make you forget about all the others. Have you ever met a girl that would make you do a double take? That would make you feel butterflies in your stomach anytime she is near you? That makes you anxious? One that you think about all the time and can't wait to see again? Trust me, girls like that exist for anyone.