I did a stupid thing

[serendip]

I went camping this weekend...and I really started to miss the ex since we always used to camp. First time I've been since.

 

Well I got home last night...had a couple of glasses of wine and I broke NC and called her...I don't even know why. The last time I called her was in July(I text message her last weekend by mistake http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t132102/). This is after I already emailed her in September (25th i think) telling her

 

there is no point in rehashing the past over and over again. We'll just end up getting each other more upset and angry with one another. Just forget about me and move on and be happy. You are a beautiful person(I truly believe that) and you deserve a great guy...someone that can give you the happiness that you deserve.

 

Anyway she didn't answer...so I left a voicemail message saying something like this

I know we shouldn't contact each other...I just hate the negativity between us....it's like bad vibes. I went camping this weekend with someone and I was thinking about you. I wish we could work things out...not to get back together...I don't think that's viable...but to get rid of the negativity. I just find it so sad that we can't even talk to one another. Anyway I'm sorry for whatever you feel. Take care I guess.

 

I'm a jerk for calling her...it's horrible. I didn't even have a big urge to call her...since it's been 3 months since I actually rang her number. I just did it. I called...I guess...I didn't even know what I wanted out of it. The message I left was bad...I didn't really know what I was going to say.

[Spinderella]

I dont see what was bad about anything you said.

I dont know the history of your relationship, but, I think wanting to leave things on a pleasant note is fine.

[funkybassplayer]

Its cool always good to say good stuff.

[serendip]

I dont see what was bad about anything you said.

I dont know the history of your relationship, but, I think wanting to leave things on a pleasant note is fine.

 

 

well it's bad in the sense that...in september I told her there's no point in rehashing the past and to forget about me and move on....

 

then I call her last night...wishing we can talk things through to get out the negativity

 

I come across as a flake

[Dear Lady Disdain]

No you don't...you just come across as a good guy...nothing wrong with that! x

[funkybassplayer]

So what? what difference? peopel change there minds we are human thats what humans do! its your ego making you feel low, but theres no need to feel that way. The world will still carry on.

[Spinderella]

Exactly. Its nice. You went through some break up spinning, everyone does it. You have reached a different stage. Its not flaky. Its progress.

[birdie]

agree with all the posters. because you are not angry or upset anymore, you are at a different emotional stage and feeling more generous in a way. that's a lovely way to be, a lot of people are not like that. as much as I don't want to keep in touch with some exes, if they occasionally say something nice it makes my day

[serendip]

I guess

 

but we really had a bad breakup...the long version is on post number 4 of this thread

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t132102/

 

short version is

 

-ex emotionally cheated on me for 3 months...I forgave her...she promise not to keep in contact with the guy

 

-guy comes back to her town and she goes out with the guy behind my back

 

-I found out by reading her emails(she gave me password long time ago)...after I found out what had been going on...I screw with her head by sending her fake emails b/c I couldn't disassociate from the hurt

 

-we didn't talk for 2 months...then we started emailing each other...then I wrote that email telling her to move on b/c we just didn't see eye to eye

 

But I just hate this negativity between us....it's pretty bad. I think that's the reason I having troubles moving on...b/c of the negativity. It's holding me back. It seems like another world away since we were a couple(it's been 4 months since break up)...but what's holding me back is the resentment we both feel for one another.

[Spinderella]

I remember you now. I think you want her to forgive you. My advice is: forgive yourself.

[funkybassplayer]

yes but that was the past this is the now, and it shows your ex, that you dont bare a grude, and are moving forward, and it shows you have forgivin yourself too, something that will help her. And that you want to be frineds. Its not a crime. It shows maturity. If your ex does not respond, it does not mean she didnt care, but more likiley that your in a different space to her in terms of your healing. Basicaly your prepeard to put th past behind, and she now knows that when or if she feels like it, she can offer the hand of friendship, and you wont bite it off! We all have to let go of our bitterness, some do it quicker than others, but when you do, its a sure sign that your maturing growing and have the ability to give, and also that you were sorry-i ask you, whats wrong with that. Forget the past, live for the now.

[serendip]

I remember you now. I think you want her to forgive you. My advice is: forgive yourself.

 

I forgave myself a while ago

 

It's just that we still have resentment towards one another...that's holding us back from moving on...I think

 

I don't know if how to get around that without talking things out with her

 

If I let time heal it....I'm not sure it will heal

[Jmina]

This is all really good advice.

 

I agree, that it is a better stage to be at, and a stage you only find after some growing and alot of thought.

 

it is where i am at now, and it is much nicer than before. your heart is open...keep it that way!

[serendip]

I've been thinking about it

 

I think besides possibly coming across as a flake(telling her to forget about me and move on...then 3 weeks later telling how I wish we could work things out to get over the negativity).

 

I think I might be pestering her b/c she told me in one of her emails...a month ago

 

i don't think I am ready to talk to you again (if ever). i am still not 100% recovered from everything and still feel somewhat traumatized and confused.

 

she berated me in a email after this b/c of my reply comparing her cheating to my neighbour's ex girlfriend who also cheated. At the same time she didn't take responsibility for her actions. She flip flops back and forth on this...it's like she sometimes accepts responsibility for her actions for my benefit only(lip service).

 

I just don't like negativity...it's bad for the soul. I like to clear things up and then it becomes easier to move on. But I will not let her get away with accepting no responsibility for her part in wrecking the relationship by cheating.

 

I don't expect her to reply to my voicemail though and I won't contact her anymore. If she doesn't want to work things out so a friendship is possible in the future(maybe in a year)...I just have to accept it and moved on. I've already done too much.

[fabulousgal]

I've been thinking about it

 

I think besides possibly coming across as a flake(telling her to forget about me and move on...then 3 weeks later telling how I wish we could work things out to get over the negativity).

 

I think I might be pestering her b/c she told me in one of her emails...a month ago

 

i don't think I am ready to talk to you again (if ever). i am still not 100% recovered from everything and still feel somewhat traumatized and confused.

 

she berated me in a email after this b/c of my reply comparing her cheating to my neighbour's ex girlfriend who also cheated. At the same time she didn't take responsibility for her actions. She flip flops back and forth on this...it's like she sometimes accepts responsibility for her actions for my benefit only(lip service).

 

I just don't like negativity...it's bad for the soul. I like to clear things up and then it becomes easier to move on. But I will not let her get away with accepting no responsibility for her part in wrecking the relationship by cheating.

 

I don't expect her to reply to my voicemail though and I won't contact her anymore. If she doesn't want to work things out so a friendship is possible in the future(maybe in a year)...I just have to accept it and moved on. I've already done too much.

 

 

why would you want to remain friends with her after a year? do you let your other friends treat you like this? and also, you probably have enough friends.

[Spinderella]

Why do you need her to accept responsibility? I personally think its because you want her to forgive you (by accepting that she provoked you or something, or accepting that she isnt perfect either). But thats just my opinion.

Does it really matter to you whether she takes responsibility? And what would letting go of negative feelings towards each other entail in your view? Would it mean she had to admit that she did wrong?

What difference does it make to the rest of your life at this moment in time? Sometimes you have to accept that you cant leave everything neatly tied up behind you in a little box with a ribbon on top. Maybe you can revisit this if you really want to at a later date, but for now, you really have not given either of you enough time to allow those negative feelings to naturally dissolve.

[serendip]

I guess you are right in some ways Spin...I do want her to forgive me....but what's more important is that...I want to be able to forgive her(that's what is holding me back)...b/c for the life of me I don't understand why she cheated on me(she was not the type to...no signs).

 

We were talking about marriage and the names of our future kids...one month before we broke up. I can understand if I did something to deserve being cheated on...not enough attention, act like a jerk...her not being in love with me...etc. But this was not the case. Most people say it was the long distance...but she always said she felt close to me and I made sure she felt loved every day we were together.

 

So I'm trying to contact her in a nice way...and not in an angry manner so I can ask her why she did it instead of the lame reason(she provided) of having an intense attraction to the guy and she thought he could teach her a life lesson.

 

I guess I just need to know for myself.

 

...and I still feel a mix of emotions.

[fabulousgal]

you didn't do anything to deserve cheating. No distance in the universe would make you deserve that. Cheating is her issue, your only issue with her cheating is that you've been delivered pain that could have been avoided.

[serendip]

you didn't do anything to deserve cheating. No distance in the universe would make you deserve that. Cheating is her issue, your only issue with her cheating is that you've been delivered pain that could have been avoided.

 

 

I guess I'm looking for a explanation.

 

If we had just broken up...I would have been fine. It would have hurt but not as much as the cheating hurt. I lost myself to the pain and hurt...that I seeked revenge....and that is wrong. That's something I have to deal with.

[fabulousgal]

well two wrongs never make a right, but it's completely understandable to want your partner to feel what has happened to you in some fashion. been there. to fix something like this, it takes 200% effort, and patience from the cheater, and 200% effort of the cheatee to learn to let it go (but only if cheater is going above and beyond).

 

what was her explanation when she did it? isn't that all you need. i am really sorry this happened, but remember that nothing you did deserved cheating.

[Spinderella]

She doesnt sound like she wants to talk about why with you. So, she will regard this latest contact as an attempt from a different angle.

 

Okay, this is something we all want to know about our exes, "why did he/she cheat", "why did he/she leave me", "did he/she really love me"....

You could go on. If you get an answer, then its "Is that really true, or are they just making excuses?"....and you could go on again...

 

You are never going to get an answer that satisfies you, or that you want to hear, or that doesnt lead to more questions. If you give yourself some time, you will begin to find your own answers to these questions. Sometimes it might take years. Have you ever had a sudden epiphany regarding something that happened years ago?

 

In my experience you never get closure from the other person.

You have contacted her so many times. If she feels that she wants to share her reasons with you, then she would surely contact you.

[serendip]

well two wrongs never make a right, but it's completely understandable to want your partner to feel what has happened to you in some fashion. been there. to fix something like this, it takes 200% effort, and patience from the cheater, and 200% effort of the cheatee to learn to let it go (but only if cheater is going above and beyond).

 

what was her explanation when she did it? isn't that all you need. i am really sorry this happened, but remember that nothing you did deserved cheating.

 

She barely takes responsibility for her actions(it's almost like lip service for my benefit)...so never mind about the 200% effort.

 

Here was her explanation...in this one she accepted some responsibility with a justification

 

Anyways i know you would argue it was my fault since I cheated on you and started this whole chain reaction...I guess you are right but you are still responsible for your reaction to everything and I did try to be honest with you. What a horrible drama. It was like being in a soap opera...i never want my life to be like that again. I guess I learned a lot from the whole experience though. I think I should have broken up with you when I moved out here...I know I shouldn't have cheated on you (that is a given). I really don't know what came over me. It was this crazy intense attraction to this other guy. I don't even know why since he wasn't somebody I could see myself with in the future...but it was still this insane attraction. I think there must be a reason for it all...some lesson I was supposed to learn or something. I felt like he had something to teach me...This vagabond guy had some lessons in life that I felt I needed to learn. All I can do is apologize to you for my actions. I know that you are a really good person and I want to remember you in a positive way..but it is really hard to forget all that stuff. I wish we could just sit down and talk about things. I really had the feeling when I was with you that you were the right guy for me long term (I even told you a few times that I wanted to marry you.). You made me so happy and I loved being with you. I had the sense of security and love from you that nobody else has ever given me. I really did love you a lot. I'm so sorry I hurt you the way I did. It was horrible of me.

 

Then she emailed me again and berated me after I made a comparison of our situation to that of my neighbours(his gf cheated on him, he read her emails to find out)

 

I am disgusted that you would even compare our situation to your neighbour. I did NOT cheat on you in that way at all. If anything i was trying to save the relationship. The guy was really into me and I was kind of into him at the beginning and then tried to get rid of him but couldn't. I never slept with him and I told him I wanted to be with you. He came back into town and you flipped out. I wanted to get back together with you after you flipped out but I felt confused and realized in my gut that there was something wrong..that is why I kept changing my mind about you visiting...

Attractions to other people happen in relationships so it is important to be open and honest with the person. I tried to do that with you by talking about things...but that didn't work

you were too hurt, understandibly, but I tried.

 

She was so mad...ten minutes later she wrote again

 

AND...if I am such a horrible cheater (as you say I am) then why did you want to stay with me all winter...???????????????????????? That makes no sense at all. You should have broken up with me.

You are just demonizing me now and telling yourself I am a horrible person and cheater so you can justify your terrible behaviour. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for you behaviour, Dave. Sorry to break it to you. But it was VERY MANIPULATIVE...

 

This was part of my reply to her...

 

I can understand why you are hurt and angry with me. Reading your emails and manipulating you the way I did is a total betrayal of your trust especially when you trusted and loved me so much...enough to want to marry me. It's a violation of your privacy and there's no excuse for it. It can shatter your faith in people and even make you doubt yourself...that you can give your love to a person who is capable of such actions. For that I am truly sorry...I was under a state of emotional duress and I just couldn't disassociate from it. I felt like I was drowning in a sea of emotions and no matter how much I struggled to get out...I just couldn't free myself from it...so I took you down with me.

 

I know what I did was wrong I don't disagree with you. But I think that you might not see yourself as doing something seriously wrong because you keep on trying to justify your actions by saying you were honest or by projecting the blame on me by saying I have trust and insecurity issues...and now you are saying you were trying to 'save the relationship'. Perhaps I'm doing the same thing.

 

First of all you weren't completely honest with me...you would tell me half-truths. For example...in November you told me you met a guy and you sort of had feelings for him. I asked you what happen and you told me you just hug him and emailed several times. That wasn't the truth...you weren't being totally honest with me. I found out the truth later on that you spent the entire night with another man. It doesn't matter whether you had sex or not...that's considered to be physical cheating...ask anyone who is objective(not just your friends). When you are in a committed relationship...spending the night with another person who is attracted to you and who you are attracted to is physical cheating. You also weren't completely honest with me about the emails. You said you only sent a few...it turns out you sent a lot and in one of them...you told him you loved him("The Truth"). That's emotional cheating. So I don't know how you can say this to me..."The guy was really into me and I was kind of into him at the beginning and then tried to get rid of him but couldn't"...especially when you said in your previous email that you had this " crazy intense attraction to this other guy". There is nothing wrong with having an attraction to other people while you are in a relationship...but you acted on it many times.

 

When you told me in November...I asked you to be completely honest with me...you did tell me a bit of the truth but not the whole truth. I also asked you what you wanted to do in regards to our relationship...you said you wanted to be with me...so I asked you to stop all contact with the guy(you promised you would) and also to give me time to reflect on the situation. You called 2 days later upset and crying...I didn't even get time to think about things. So I just decided to let things go because I hate seeing you upset. When I visited you in December I found out you were still in contact with the guy after you promised me you would stop all contact. You broke your promise to me. But I also found out something that made me so distraught that I had to leave your cabin because I felt ill...the day you wrote "the truth" was the day you moved into my house. We had a beautiful dinner and we made love that night...meanwhile earlier in the day you told another man you loved him. Also while you were living in my house in November...you got mad at me because I was not supportive of your move...all the while you were emotionally cheating on me and using my computer to do it. You did this for 3 months(oct to dec) straight without me knowing anything(I was under the impression you hung out with some guy and sent a couple of emails) and all the while I thought we had a great relationship. That's what I don't understand...the reason why? I thought I made sure that you felt loved every day that I was with you and I don't think I ever took you for granted.

 

I felt you betrayed my trust on 3 separate occasions...when you cheated on me in October...when you kept in contact with the guy after you promised you wouldn't in November and in May when you went out with him behind my back after we had talked about it in April. In fact you lied to me that night. You told me you went for a walk and ice cream with your roommate...meanwhile you went out with the guy. So I ask you this question...do you think you were worthy of my trust after all this? I have no trust, jealousy or insecurity issues until a person betrays me(which is a natural reaction to have). Did I ever have any of these issues when you went out with Wes or any of your ex's. I didn't even care about it. Did I not have the right to feel hurt and flip out in May after all of this stuff happened. What I did not have the right to do...was to read your emails. But I did deserve to know the whole truth(considering we were talking about marriage and everything) and you weren't being completely honest with me. [/sIZE]

 

 

Sorry for the length of this post.

[serendip]

She doesnt sound like she wants to talk about why with you. So, she will regard this latest contact as an attempt from a different angle.

 

Okay, this is something we all want to know about our exes, "why did he/she cheat", "why did he/she leave me", "did he/she really love me"....

You could go on. If you get an answer, then its "Is that really true, or are they just making excuses?"....and you could go on again...

 

You are never going to get an answer that satisfies you, or that you want to hear, or that doesnt lead to more questions. If you give yourself some time, you will begin to find your own answers to these questions. Sometimes it might take years. Have you ever had a sudden epiphany regarding something that happened years ago?

 

In my experience you never get closure from the other person.

You have contacted her so many times. If she feels that she wants to share her reasons with you, then she would surely contact you.

 

You are right...I'll probably never get the answer....it'll just continue.

 

I guess I just have to deal with it.

[fabulousgal]

alright,

 

once upon a time i got cheated on.....and i took him back. i turned into a nutjob because he didn't give the 200% I discussed in my earlier post. I'd sneak peaks into his day planner, I think once I went looking around in his closet...only to find a note from a girl who had stayed over a few nights before!

 

So I left the scumbag, but you know what? He FREAKED that I looked around at his stuff. At the end of the day though HE CREATED THAT DYNAMIC. I gave him one opportunity to give the 200%, he was failing, I found what I needed, and I bounced out.

 

He continued to try to get back with me for years. I had learned at this point, there was no remorse on his end and no changing.

 

Your situation sounds a bit similar, she was "playing down" the truth so you wouldn't flip, but you checked things out on your own and saw what was really going on. She then gets defensive. Not saying looking at her mail was ok, but I've seen people do this millions of times....it's not the end all be all. If I wanted to repair things, and my bf did that, I'd change all my passwords and lay out some rules about privacy. What she did was a billion times worse, and she doesn't take stock in it bc she keeps defendin herself. That is not the sign of someone who knows and accepts their mistakes.

 

Let her wallow in her own selfishness, and work on finding someone who respects you. When you are ready.

[serendip]

i turned into a nutjob because he didn't give the 200%

 

welcome to my world...I was so infuriated that she didn't take responsibility for her actions...instead she blamed me by saying I had trust and insecurity issues....as if she didn't understand there is a correlation btwn cheating and trust and insecurity issues. I swear I thought I was living in bizarro world.

 

I still don't think she sees what she did as seriously wrong...

 

-spending the night cuddling with a guy in bed

-writing over 50 emails to the guy...one of them telling him she loved him while living in my house and using my computer to do it...for 3 months

 

I forgave her for this...I honestly did...we were happy again

 

-then she went out with the guy behind my back and lied to me about it and that broke me

 

...because she did not have sexual intercourse with the man(I assume she did after we broke up)...in her mind she feels it wasn't that bad. I wish she just screwed him (well maybe not since he has a couple of STD's) and be done with it. It's the 3 months of constant emotional cheating and lying...that hurt more. Then me beating myself up...to find it in myself to forgive her...then she goes out with him behind my back....that broke me.

 

I snapped after that. I should have just walked away. Instead I seeked revenged and manipulated her. So in that she feels justification for cheating.

 

after I wrote her the long email...I thought what's the point...so I emailed her this the next day...

 

..disregard my last email...there is no point in rehashing the past over and over again. We'll just end up getting each other more upset and angry with one another. Just forget about me and move on and be happy. You are a beautiful person(I truly believe that) and you deserve a great guy...someone that can give you the happiness that you deserve.

 

then we had no contact for 3 weeks...then I sent a group text wishing everyone a happy canadian thanksgiving

 

then I called her on sunday for some unknown reason

I know we shouldn't contact each other...I just hate the negativity between us....it's like bad vibes. I went camping this weekend with someone and I was thinking about you. I wish we could work things out...not to get back together...I don't think that's viable...but to get rid of the negativity. I just find it so sad that we can't even talk to one another. Anyway I'm sorry for whatever you feel. Take care I guess.

 

She doesn't want any contact with me(she seems to be playing the victim role). So now I come across as a flake(flip floping) and she already thinks I'm obsessive, crazy...well basically demonizing me so she can justifly what she did.

 

I shouldn't really care what she thinks and I should be happy that I found this out about her before we got really serious(moving my life for her and marriage). But I'm not happy with this situation and unfortunately I still care.