revenage

[LittleLady]

She cannot be touched with a lawsuit because she spoke HONESTLY... he is a great worker but doesn't get along with others.. true? Why don't you be a little more bluntly honest next time and let others know about his sexual harassment in the office? He should never be working alongside women again!

[Trimmer]

She cannot be touched with a lawsuit because she spoke HONESTLY... he is a great worker but doesn't get along with others.. true? Why don't you be a little more bluntly honest next time and let others know about his sexual harassment in the office? He should never be working alongside women again!

 

Well, that was my point when I asked:

...was I honest about his inability to get along with co-workers and customers? In the end, did I really act in the best interests of my company to keep him from getting a job offer?

 

Heck, if you can answer yes to those, I don't see what the problem is.

She never did come back and directly address that, and I haven't searched her previous posts to find out further details...

 

How about it, lost? Was your evaluation an honest appraisal?

[noforgiveness]

She cannot be touched with a lawsuit because she spoke HONESTLY... he is a great worker but doesn't get along with others.. true? Why don't you be a little more bluntly honest next time and let others know about his sexual harassment in the office? He should never be working alongside women again!

 

Nothing makes me angrier then when a woman who WILLINGLY entered into a relationship with a man and then tries to claim sexual harrassment because it doesn't work out. It is a true disservice to women who have been honestly harrassed and makes ALL women look bad.

 

LITTLELADY WHERE DO YOU SEE SEXUAL HARRASSMENT IN THIS STORY?

[KenzieAbsolutely]

well, regardless of whether the OP is right or wrong, if anything, the MM is just as accountable as she is for any result that arises afterward.

 

here's to hoping he learned his lesson and at his next job, he'll think before dipping his pen in the company ink. or anyone's ink besides his wife's.

[Herzen]

So I think I told you all that my xmm and I work fr the same company, but different identities for the company, and that he was fired (HA, Still loving it) anyways today the VP asked me what I thought of XMM's work, I told him he is smart and great ideas, but he is a huge jerk and nobody gets along with him, co-workers or customers (he was going to offer him a job until I said that)

 

Thought I would share

 

and now that I said it I feel bad for doing so because it will take him a long time to find a job doing what he was doing....But I really cann't have him working with me....just can't

 

These are some very serious statements: the guy's a "huge jerk" with whom no one, customer or colleague, can work. The man, according to the OP, is a moral leper--a corporate psychopath. Those defamatory statements best be true. Otherwise, it's slander per se.

 

And if I'm his lawyer and I'm shown the original post, I would seize on this: "But I really cann't have him working with me....just can't."

 

 

Whose interests is the OP protecting: her employer's or her own? Has she defamed him to exclude him from her workplace to protect her feelings?

[LittleLady]

This is ridiculous. We are assuming that the OP had 100% responsibility in the matter.. there are probably numerous reason he wasn't hired!! I think she only reinforced how the boss and others felt about him.

[LittleLady]

So I think I told you all that my xmm and I work fr the same company, but different identities for the company, and that he was fired (HA, Still loving it) anyways today the VP asked me what I thought of XMM's work, I told him he is smart and great ideas, but he is a huge jerk and nobody gets along with him, co-workers or customers (he was going to offer him a job until I said that)

 

Thought I would share

 

and now that I said it I feel bad for doing so because it will take him a long time to find a job doing what he was doing....But I really cann't have him working with me....just can't

 

 

He was fired and then going to be rehired??

[Cinabon]

I think that when an opinion was asked by the boss. The OP should have kept personal feelings to themselves and only commented the persons ability to perform the job. ( sorry this might actually be for another thread...)

[LittleLady]

I think that when an opinion was asked by the boss. The OP should have kept personal feelings to themselves and only commented the persons ability to perform the job.

 

Sounds to me like she did. He was just fired from another job.. apparently he has problems working with people if he does well at his job otherwise. Or was he caught trying to put moves on another woman in the office?

[Trimmer]

This is ridiculous. We are assuming that the OP had 100% responsibility in the matter.. there are probably numerous reason he wasn't hired!! I think she only reinforced how the boss and others felt about him.

I am only focusing on her responsibility to her employer to give accurate information if asked. That's why I asked: was her evaluation honest?

 

If it was her honest, objective evaluation of his suitability, in support of helping her employer make a sensible hiring decision, then there's no hoopla. If she embellished the objective situation to accomplish, as her subject line states: "revenage", then she's got some thinking to do.

[Herzen]

This is ridiculous. We are assuming that the OP had 100% responsibility in the matter.. there are probably numerous reason he wasn't hired!! I think she only reinforced how the boss and others felt about him.

 

The OP gave just one, THIS:

 

"today the VP asked me what I thought of XMM's work, I told him he is smart and great ideas, but he is a huge jerk and nobody gets along with him, co-workers or customers (he was going to offer him a job until I said that)"

 

 

Based on the the poster's own words, but for her comments, the man would have been hired. I can only opine based on what is posted. I'll assume nothing.

[LittleLady]

I guess the following applies "dont shi_ where you eat".

 

I'm sure he'll find another job to pick up chicks at. I wouldn't be too worried. His "fired" past might make it a little difficult though.

[Kasan]

a thread started by Darkzen titled "Would you destroy someone's life" a couple of weeks ago.

 

His girlfriend cheated on him and he took the opportunity to report some shady stuff that she had done to her employers for revenge.

 

The thread went on and on with the usual karma, morality arguments raised. In addition there was disbelief that someone would actually destroy the life of someone that they once loved .

 

Like our OP, Darkzen justified his actions--and to this day, he feels he was right. The whole payback is a *itch factor.

 

But in the end we are the ones who have to look at ourselves in the mirror. OP I wonder what you see?

[Herzen]

a thread started by Darkzen titled "Would you destroy someone's life" a couple of weeks ago.

 

His girlfriend cheated on him and he took the opportunity to report some shady stuff that she had done to her employers for revenge.

 

The thread went on and on with the usual karma, morality arguments raised. In addition there was disbelief that someone would actually destroy the life of someone that they once loved .

 

Like our OP, Darkzen justified his actions--and to this day, he feels he was right. The whole payback is a *itch factor.

 

But in the end we are the ones who have to look at ourselves in the mirror. OP I wonder what you see?

 

To which I can only add: Amen.

[Darkzen]

a thread started by Darkzen titled "Would you destroy someone's life" a couple of weeks ago.

 

His girlfriend cheated on him and he took the opportunity to report some shady stuff that she had done to her employers for revenge.

 

The thread went on and on with the usual karma, morality arguments raised. In addition there was disbelief that someone would actually destroy the life of someone that they once loved .

 

Like our OP, Darkzen justified his actions--and to this day, he feels he was right. The whole payback is a *itch factor.

 

But in the end we are the ones who have to look at ourselves in the mirror. OP I wonder what you see?

 

I didn't do what I did to my ex because she cheated on me... it was a laundry list of offenses.

 

I'm sure the OP feels exactly like I do... no regrets. The only way that'll change, is if those we got revenge on, became different people in our eyes. My justification, was that my ex is the type of person, who got what they deserved. It's not like I would shed a tear, if I had to kill an Iraqi soldier in war... they oppose my beliefs and that particular game is played to the death... sometimes, it's ok to do bad things to bad people.

[Kasan]

I didn't do what I did to my ex because she cheated on me... it was a laundry list of offenses.

 

I'm sure the OP feels exactly like I do... no regrets. The only way that'll change, is if those we got revenge on, became different people in our eyes. My justification, was that my ex is the type of person, who got what they deserved. It's not like I would shed a tear, if I had to kill an Iraqi soldier in war... they oppose my beliefs and that particular game is played to the death... sometimes, it's ok to do bad things to bad people.

 

Darkzen--

 

"Sigh" when you originally posted it was about the cheating--as your thread unfolded, more and more of your unhappiness with her came to light. You also posted that by reporting her to her bosses and trying to get her fired would give you the ability to move on.

 

I remember thinking and posting to you, that I thought it would have been fascinating to get her view. In any event there are always three sides to every situation, yours, theirs, and the truth.

 

You know my feelings about what you did--I was pretty vocal in my postings to you. And as I once told you--- "whatever gets you through the night"

 

I apologize for the thread-jack.

[Darkzen]

Darkzen--

 

"Sigh" when you originally posted it was about the cheating--as your thread unfolded, more and more of your unhappiness with her came to light. You also posted that by reporting her to her bosses and trying to get her fired would give you the ability to move on.

 

I remember thinking and posting to you, that I thought it would have been fascinating to get her view. In any event there are always three sides to every situation, yours, theirs, and the truth.

 

You know my feelings about what you did--I was pretty vocal in my postings to you. And as I once told you--- "whatever gets you through the night"

 

I apologize for the thread-jack.

 

I'm not attacking you, just clarifying and weighing in one this thread. Yes, by doing what I did it helped me move on. I'd have carried an unfair weight on my conscience had I walked away. To remove the burden, I felt it necessary to fight back. Ever been bullied as a child? Did you not ever ponder what things would have been like if you fought back? It's the same concept in my head.

 

I totally agree that there's three sides to every story. I'm a fairly open and honest person, sure my perspective will paint things a little more in my favor, but I was fairly accurate in my accounts... she'll tell you that she felt all types of things... but they're mostly delusions (i.e. didn't happen the way she remembers them). She blames me for not horse-back riding anymore... my brother is the one that had the conversation with her about it. How is that my fault? She really believes that I was the reason and I had nothing to do with it. When I pointed out that it was my brother, she even agreed... just like pretty much every other thing she brought up. The simple truth of the matter is that she didn't want to move and find a new job... so she created all these things in her head to allow her a clean conscience to walk away. Otherwise, she had no valid reason and would have felt like a total ass-wipe.

 

I gave her the perfect opportunity when I called and was feeling depressed. She even talked to my brother and when he asked for reasons, she kept bringing up things about moving (such as not being comfortable driving, unsure of her job situation, etc...), but swore it wasn't the reason. He thinks the same thing that I do. Not too mention that her mom was in her ear, projecting on her due to the bad marriage she's currently in.

 

She made me out to be the bad guy, so I became the bad guy. Now I don't feel unfairly labeled and she can move on without any questions or doubts. Win-win situation IMHO.

[Kasan]

I'm not attacking you, just clarifying and weighing in one this thread. Yes, by doing what I did it helped me move on. I'd have carried an unfair weight on my conscience had I walked away. To remove the burden, I felt it necessary to fight back. Ever been bullied as a child? Did you not ever ponder what things would have been like if you fought back? It's the same concept in my head.

 

Darkzen,

 

I don't feel attacked at all by you--in fact I find people who think so differently from me fascinating.

 

I wonder how they come to think the way they do, what factors contributed to their thinking, and do they regret the things they do.

 

I am always interested in what you have to say even if I don't agree. This is why I love LS so much. Where else can you learn so much about human nature?

 

Life would be very boring if everyone thought like me--no actually it would be kinda of cool! JUST KIDDING!

[lost4ever]

Hey, noforgiveness, this same thread was started under your screen name in the Business/Professional Relationships forum. What gives? Someone playing games here?

 

 

This was never meant to be a business thread, but now that my business ethic is what is in question, why don't I post the whole story there....

by the way I am mad that someone thinks they can take my post, put a twist on it, and repost it as theirs....

[Darkzen]

Darkzen,

 

I don't feel attacked at all by you--in fact I find people who think so differently from me fascinating.

 

I wonder how they come to think the way they do, what factors contributed to their thinking, and do they regret the things they do.

 

I am always interested in what you have to say even if I don't agree. This is why I love LS so much. Where else can you learn so much about human nature?

 

Life would be very boring if everyone thought like me--no actually it would be kinda of cool! JUST KIDDING!

 

No biggie, guess I misread the "sigh" in your post.

 

It's all about walking in other people's shoes, without that you'll never understand what drives them. We're actually pretty close to one another's thinking, in regards to other people's thinking. We just have different experiences, that ultimately lead us to different decisions.

 

Trust me, if I never experienced some of the things I have, I also wouldn't understand my desire to "fight the good fight". Being in a hostile country, surrounded by a million land-mines and by people that hate you... you begin to swallow that innocence and the concept of not hurting people, isn't completely alien anymore. When you see the corpses of small children in mass graves, you want those who were responsible to pay for their deeds. I'm not comparing these things to what my ex did to me, just trying to explain how I got to where I am. If we don't stand-up against bad people, who will? That's my reasoning behind it, trust me, if she didn't leave the way she did... I wouldn't have enacted revenge on her. She didn't do the right thing by me, so why should I do the right thing by her? I don't think that makes me less of a human being, I just believe that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

[child_of_isis]

I don't see an employer hiring/not hiring based on the word of another employee.

 

In all likelihood, the VP had heard about their history and wanted to confirm it.

 

The words "huge jerk" speaks volumes. It tells the VP that yes, indeed, there is/was a problem.

 

So now the VP knows to stay on alert and monitor this employee (the original poster). In VP's eyes, this employee not only fraternizes with colleagues, but holds grudges and don't have a problem bad mouthing other employees if she has a problem with them.

 

This is a red flag in the workforce. No VP wants "sexual harrassment" possibilities.

 

I just don't see anything good coming out of this.

The OP gave just one, THIS:

 

"today the VP asked me what I thought of XMM's work, I told him he is smart and great ideas, but he is a huge jerk and nobody gets along with him, co-workers or customers (he was going to offer him a job until I said that)"

 

 

Based on the the poster's own words, but for her comments, the man would have been hired. I can only opine based on what is posted. I'll assume nothing.

[RecordProducer]

No offense to you...but calling him a huge jerk to the VP was probably not in your own best interest.

Hey, you don't know the kind of relationship they have! Perhaps they are in... jerking terms!

 

Was your evaluation an honest appraisal?

How can we talk about honesty here? An honest response would have been: "I am not a suitable person to judge, because he used to f*ck the sh*t outta me."

 

Do you think the VP would have asked her for an appraisal had he known that?

[OWoman]

Nothing makes me angrier then when a woman who WILLINGLY entered into a relationship with a man and then tries to claim sexual harrassment because it doesn't work out. It is a true disservice to women who have been honestly harrassed and makes ALL women look bad.

 

LITTLELADY WHERE DO YOU SEE SEXUAL HARRASSMENT IN THIS STORY?

 

In the workplace, where there are reporting lines involved, the issue of POWER comes into it. NF it might not fit with your rather narrow view of what constitutes sexual harassment, but most company policies are thankfully rather more progressive on that point. Or do you feel that an adult seducing a "willing" under-age child is also OK, because the child "willingly" entres the relationship? Most magistrates would disagree with you if you did, because of the issues of power, and the INABILITY of a child in that position to give INFORMED CONSENT. A truly consensual relationship is one of equals. Issues of power - and reporting lines in the workplace embody that kind of power - preclude that kind of equality. Such a relationship, if reported to a sexual harassment panel in a workplace, would certainly qualify as harassment because of the power dynamic.

 

Many workplaces have policies that expressly forbid such relationships; others have policies that require the lowest common manager of the parties involved to be notified; and, if there's a direct line report involved, at least one of the parties to be moved to remove that direct reporting relationship. This is common, and sensible, company practice. Employers know just how much can go wrong if they don't protect themselves and their employees from this kind of thing.

 

So yes, I'm not surprised the VP came to get the OWs opinion if he'd heard rumours of impropriety in the office. The WS is not the kind of employee most companies would want to take a risk on.

 

Sorry this is such a long post, but I've lived through a not altogether dissimilar situation where I landed up reporting to an MM I was having an A with. I ended the A because of the working relationship, but his W found out about it subsequently and created lots of problems in the workplace. Which led to his, and her, immediate dismissal. (They later left the country because they couldn't find employment again with that track record.)

[Trimmer]

OWoman, there's a difference between saying "sexual harrassment happened" and your good points about how companies often now (wisely) act out of an abundance of caution in observing very strict policies to ensure that they stay WAY on the right side of the applicable laws.

 

Are you saying that legally, sexual harrassment exists whenever a subordinate enters into a relationship with a superior? That this is legally analogous to a child being unable to give informed consent? Because you sure shoved that down NF's throat to make your point...

 

If your point is that they acted unwisely, even stupidly, or that the company would surely have a policy against this kind of thing to avoid getting close to a situation of sexual harrassment, or that the company might fire or reassign one or the other participant in a policy move, then I would grant you that point, and I would expect the company acted wisely in taking action to mitigate the situation.

 

But if you are making the point that there obviously IS sexual harrassment in this situation, just on the basis of a relationship existing between a superior and a subordinate (absent other comment from the OP, whose past threads on the subject I have not reviewed) then I'm not saying I conclude there was no sexual harrasment, but I don't think you can draw that inference that there was, either, with the limited information available.

[Havn_a_life]

I guess the following applies "dont shi_ where you eat".

 

I'm sure he'll find another job to pick up chicks at. I wouldn't be too worried. His "fired" past might make it a little difficult though.

 

Yeah, well, I guess we shouldn't think anything then, about his W and kids suffering, huh?

It's his problem right? Should have kept it in his pants,etc...tough luck for the W and kids...

 

OK!