Porn question

[Mr. Lucky]

He's not exactly the answer to a woman's closest dreams if that's where his priorities are. In a choice between a real, live woman or a pornographic representation of a random "teenage" girl, and he chooses the inanimate?... my advice to her in that case would be to "cut bait". A guy like that isn't worth the aggravation.

But Ladyjane, you touch on an important point. Given the chance, I don't think that most men in a relationship would choose a pornagraphic representation unless forced into that choice by a lack of opportunity. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

When he was eyeing the porn, we hadn't been intimate for maybe 3 weeks???? He thought that was soooo long and that it led him to look at it. Is that really that long of a time when you have been married for almost 9 years?????

jtalia at least implies that her husband should be satisfied with sex and intimacy once a month. She seems to feel that because that works for her, it should work for him. Maybe he feels the same way about the porn...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Kazan]

wives who think "it's only 3 weeks" have no business being wives

 

they don't understand men in well enough to be in love with one.

[Ladyjane14]

jtalia at least implies that her husband should be satisfied with sex and intimacy once a month. She seems to feel that because that works for her, it should work for him. Maybe he feels the same way about the porn...

 

That's not the impression I got. She's said that she enjoys sex for the most part, so I took it that "3 weeks" was something of an aberration. And really... sh*t happens in life. People get sick or incapacitated from time to time. If he can't go three weeks without resorting to fetish-type porn, all the while knowing his wife's views on it... that's pretty sad.

 

Porn isn't a need. It's a want. What this guy "needs"... that is, IF he plans to stay married, is emotional/sexual intimacy within the marriage. He can't afford to present himself in a psychologically repugnant manner. It accomplishes NOTHING toward his goal of more frequent sexual contact, and is no different, IMO, than physical repulsiveness.

 

You guys HAVE to engage a woman's mind and emotions if you're going to be successful within the confines of your relationships. A woman doesn't have a penis, you know... not to mention twenty times the testosterone with which to raise it.

[michaelk]

The OP says she IS bothered by it, "sickened" by it, if memory serves. This guy is turning her off, dousing her libido in cold water, affecting her ability to be physically attracted to him.

 

What would be the difference if she was doing something that he found to be equally nauseating. Say, she starts taking male hormones so she can join the circus part-time as "The Bearded Lady".

Should he not have a problem with that if it were preventing him from getting it up?

 

Sure, he can certainly set up 'tolerance of fetish porn' as a boundary if he wants. But he hasn't. What he's done instead is to sneak around behind her back and then beg her not to leave him. Now, if he does set his boundary thusly, the ball is in her court to say yea or nay, just as it's within his control to accept her boundary on the 'teen porn'. He's free to walk. She hasn't got him chained up in the basement.

 

I'm all for folks being understood and accepted within their marriage, showing their true selves and all that. But sometimes, the true self is simply unacceptable because it is in direct contradiction to our own wants and needs. I see no reason for her to accommodate this into her life if it's intolerable to her.

 

I agree with what you're saying - except for the analogy.

 

If she's sickened by the 'teen porn', she can choose to tolerate it as long as it's not in her face. He already goes off in a corner somewhere to look at it, and she can simply tell him to continue doing that.

 

If, however, she finds the mere idea of him looking at it so disgusting that she finds him repulsive by association, then of course she has every right to choose not to be with him. We can debate the merits of such a point of view, but she is absolutely entitled to it and I won't argue her right to leave him on that basis if she so wishes.

 

As far as the "bearded woman" analogy goes, I think it's a poor one. If he was a vegetarian and she loved eating meat, that might be closer to the situation here. He might be sickened by it, but still be able to have a relationship with her as long as she wasn't doing it at shared meals. Or, he might be so morally opposed that he would have to leave her and find a mate with a similar moral stance.

 

Anyway, I think we've gotten way off the OP's actual issue. Most posters seem to think that the issues here run much deeper than porn, and I agree.

[Ladyjane14]

If, however, she finds the mere idea of him looking at it so disgusting that she finds him repulsive by association, then of course she has every right to choose not to be with him. We can debate the merits of such a point of view, but she is absolutely entitled to it and I won't argue her right to leave him on that basis if she so wishes.

 

Exactly. I can understand how somebody would feel that way, because when I 'walk a mile' for her... that's how I would feel.

 

Most posters seem to think that the issues here run much deeper than porn, and I agree.

 

Me too.

[Cobra_X30]

How do you figure?

Do you think she should just 'put out' regardless of the fact that she's not currently attracted to him? Have YOU ever had any sexual interaction with someone you're not the least bit aroused by? Would it be okay for her to say.. pack on 400 pounds and then expect him to give it up like a vending machine?

 

All I'm saying is that if "teen porn" is more important to him than presenting himself in an attractive way for his mate... let him enjoy his porn while she finds herself a more like-minded mate, one whose "needs" are NOT at cross-purposes with her own.

 

Its simple. Isnt this somone you are supposed to love? I'd say when you constantly reject and devalue a man on that level.... your just pretending at love. Dont you have to do things you dont want to do sometimes when you care about someone else?

 

Personally, if I gave someone my trust, my heart, and got spittle in my face in return. I'd start to feel angry and trapped, especially if there were young kids involved.

 

Marriage is a give and take. You cant expect to take if you arent willing to give.

 

Not saying that this is 100% the case, but it's something that needs to be said and taken into account! You can villify the husband all you want, but I dont think we would be right not to consider his POV.

[Ladyjane14]

Its simple. Isnt this somone you are supposed to love? I'd say when you constantly reject and devalue a man on that level.... your just pretending at love. Dont you have to do things you dont want to do sometimes when you care about someone else?

 

Personally, if I gave someone my trust, my heart, and got spittle in my face in return. I'd start to feel angry and trapped, especially if there were young kids involved.

 

Marriage is a give and take. You cant expect to take if you arent willing to give.

 

Not saying that this is 100% the case, but it's something that needs to be said and taken into account! You can villify the husband all you want, but I dont think we would be right not to consider his POV.

 

I don't see where she's spitting on him, Cobra. He calls her filthy names, like "c*nt", for pete's sake.

 

People have a right to a pornography-free existence if they so choose. And unless this guy had the preacher pronounce vows of continued porn-tolerance at the wedding... he's introduced a new and unacceptable dynamic into the marriage.

[michaelk]

What this guy "needs"... that is, IF he plans to stay married, is emotional/sexual intimacy within the marriage. He can't afford to present himself in a psychologically repugnant manner.

 

You guys HAVE to engage a woman's mind and emotions if you're going to be successful within the confines of your relationships. A woman doesn't have a penis, you know... not to mention twenty times the testosterone with which to raise it.

 

Yes, he does need to foster that intimacy. This doesn't come easily to many of us men, but it's what she needs and he should make that effort. By the same token, she should be working toward making sure his needs are met. And because women don't have all that testosterone, I understand that this may not come easily either. Bottom line: they both need to work towards understanding and meeting the other's needs.

 

As for not "presenting himself in a psychologically repugnant manner", I have to take issue with your choice of words here. He shouldn't have to "present" himself to her at all. He should be able to be himself. It's all this posing and posturing that leads people to discover years after the fact that they don't really know the person they married!

[Cobra_X30]

I don't see where she's spitting on him, Cobra. He calls her filthy names, like "c*nt", for pete's sake.

 

People have a right to a pornography-free existence if they so choose. And unless this guy had the preacher pronounce vows of continued porn-tolerance at the wedding... he's introduced a new and unacceptable dynamic into the marriage.

 

Its obvious that our difference of opinion is based on what started this downward spiral.

 

My contention is that there is a possibility he is lashing out because he feels rejected/unwanted.

 

Is that not a very real possibility?

[Ladyjane14]

As for not "presenting himself in a psychologically repugnant manner", I have to take issue with your choice of words here. He shouldn't have to "present" himself to her at all. He should be able to be himself. It's all this posing and posturing that leads people to discover years after the fact that they don't really know the person they married!

 

What I'm saying is that it's completely possible for a woman to be so turned off by a man's sexual predilections as to find him completely repulsive. You guys might not agree that "teen porn" should be such an issue, but it's up to each individual what they can and can't tolerate from a partner. If "being himself" means he HAS to view this kind of pornography, maybe he's not the right man for the OP.

 

My contention is that there is a possibility he is lashing out because he feels rejected/unwanted.

 

"Lashing out" is certainly something that a person can be forgiven for... but only IF their mate chooses to do so. Forgiveness cannot be demanded or forced, and frankly... there's just no excuse good enough for calling your wife a "c*nt".

 

If she wants to repair the marriage, she'll find a way to forgive him, and if she doesn't... then he's just learned a fairly expensive lesson regarding considerate treatment of one's spouse.

 

 

(I've got to get going, guys. I've spent too much time checking in on this thread and not enough WORKING today. )

[Kenyth]

They've both got issues here. His are much worse on the treatment side. Her's are bordering infidelity. I get a feeling the relationship with this other guy is a little more in-depth than she's letting on. It usually is.

 

They're both starting to look outside the marriage for satisfaction without actually cheating yet. The most common behavior in men is porn viewing. The most common behavior in women is the EA. In this behavior, I'd say they are equally at fault.

 

They are also being passive agressive to each other. The common behavior in men is being mean and cutting off emotional intimacy. The most common behavior in women is cutting off sex and physical intimacy. They're both doing this as well and need to decide whether they want in or out.

 

Men always complain that they can't feel loving if the woman won't be intimate and women always say they can't be physically intimate while they are repulsed by their spouse's behavior or attitude. IMHO, it's 90% pride in most circumstances. You don't enjoy every moment of every other job in life. Why should marriages be different? Let it go, for your own sake.

 

Unfortunately, from my own life experience, most people simply don't have the ability to let things go. It makes for a lot of broken homes and long lasting family squabbles.

[jtalia]

His porn habit has been going on for a number of years. Jtalia, do you remember the FIRST time you discovered it? How long ago was that? Was it around the time your sex diminished or after or before?

 

About 6 years ago is when I had first found out. I am sure it was going on prior to our marriage. It has always been "teen" porn too. I think that may of been when the arguing started???? Our sex life hasn't always been this diminished either. And normally 3 weeks would be a long time for me to wait.

 

And, Kenyth, you are right. Maybe my relationship with the other guy is a little more in depth then what I had led on. I know I need to cut off all ties with him, and NO he is not a coworker. Probably worse.

[Cobra_X30]

His porn habit has been going on for a number of years. Jtalia, do you remember the FIRST time you discovered it? How long ago was that? Was it around the time your sex diminished or after or before?

 

About 6 years ago is when I had first found out. I am sure it was going on prior to our marriage. It has always been "teen" porn too. I think that may of been when the arguing started???? Our sex life hasn't always been this diminished either. And normally 3 weeks would be a long time for me to wait.

 

And, Kenyth, you are right. Maybe my relationship with the other guy is a little more in depth then what I had led on. I know I need to cut off all ties with him, and NO he is not a coworker. Probably worse.

 

Boss?

 

Please dont say its your boss!

[Mr. Lucky]

About 6 years ago is when I had first found out. I am sure it was going on prior to our marriage. It has always been "teen" porn too. I think that may of been when the arguing started????

I don't understand why the "teen" part of this is so important. If he was looking at "granny" porn (is there such a thing ?), would things be better in your marriage?

 

Mr. Lucky

[jtalia]

Nope. Not my boss. It is my neighbor, who happens to be our friend. Pretty horrible I know.

 

I would probably laugh at the granny porn!! Not sure why the teen thing bothers me. Maybe cause it could be someone's daughter or maybe cause they are just so young. I consider 18 a kid. But I guess it could be someone's grandma too???

[Ladyjane14]

I don't understand why the "teen" part of this is so important.

 

I can't answer for JT, but for me... it's because they're too immature to understand the gravity of their decision. To my mind, this is exploitation of a youngster.

 

A full grown woman might choose to conduct herself in a way that will have a lasting effect on her reputation and KNOW what the consequences will be. An 18 year-old cannot. She doesn't have the resources.

 

Today's "teen" is tomorrow's adult... with a family of her own, possibly a prestigious career, and pictures of her coochie hanging over her head like an ax waiting to fall.

 

Societally, it's just WRONG to exploit our young people this way. These are our daughters, sisters, nieces, grand-daughters, and they're TOO YOUNG to correctly predict the outcome of their choices.

 

 

p.s. I'm totally okay with Granny-porn though.

Just as long as Granny's not senile.

[Cobra_X30]

Nope. Not my boss. It is my neighbor, who happens to be our friend. Pretty horrible I know.

 

I would probably laugh at the granny porn!! Not sure why the teen thing bothers me. Maybe cause it could be someone's daughter or maybe cause they are just so young. I consider 18 a kid. But I guess it could be someone's grandma too???

 

Hmmm....

 

Do you want your marriage to work?

[jtalia]

Honestly. I am not sure. At times I do, for the kids sake and maybe mine. Other times, I just want out. I feel like we are roommates. He doesn't feel that way though.

 

I know that if I am going to make this work, I have to let go of my "friendship" or whatever I have with the other person. But how do you do so when we are all such close friends?

 

I have suggested moving closer to my job (which is an hour away) so that we could make a "fresh start." But that is not going to change any of our problems and plus it is being rather selfish of me.

[Ladyjane14]

Maybe my relationship with the other guy is a little more in depth then what I had led on. I know I need to cut off all ties with him, and NO he is not a coworker. Probably worse.

 

It is my neighbor, who happens to be our friend. Pretty horrible I know.

 

JT, sometimes when a person is dealing with problems that feel vague or insurmountable, they can become fixated on an outside romantic interest.

 

You see this quite a bit with pregnant or new mothers, where they're maybe obsessing about their first love. You see it in men experiencing midlife crisis or anxious about just starting out with their families, getting into an affair type relationship with a coworker. You see it in marriages where one partner feels that every path to conflict resolution is blocked.

 

But these obsessive feelings are just a manifestation of avoidance, IMO. It's a way to take all these fuzzy, ill-defined, unresolvable issues and slap a more concrete label on them. So instead of dealing with something insubstantial or beyond your control, you've got a problem in front of you that feels REAL... something you can sink your teeth into.

 

It's a coping mechanism with a big payoff too. Because it feels GOOD to finally get some care and understanding from somebody when you're feeling so isolated and confused. There's not only an emotional reaction, but a physiological one as well, whereby your body releases all these great feel-good chemicals in response to interaction with the object of your affections. Even thoughts of your "affair partner" will produce this response. This is Infatuation, and it's potential for addiction is similar to the effects of cocaine.

 

This is how people get in over their head, hunny.

 

As I've told you, these feelings will color everything. It's similar to depression in that respect, the antithesis of it. It distorts your view, and makes it impossible to attain mental clarity. It's not even possible in most cases to assess the object of your affection objectively. Because you're viewing him through this "colored" lens.

 

When you consider that only about 3% of affair partners manage to sustain a long-term relationship over a period of say 5 years or so... it's easy to see how our minds can trick us.

 

My advice to you is to refocus your energy onto the marriage and immerse yourself in resolving the problems within it. Get into a state of absolute NC (no contact) with your neighbor. Move your family if you have to... whatever it takes to enforce this.

 

In the meantime, get into some marriage counseling with your husband. Read some books together. I mentioned The Five Love Languages earlier, and it's a good start... a quick read with a fairly well-rounded premise.

 

Cobra told you exactly right that men tend to show anger when they're frustrated. Type into your browser, "big boys don't cry, readers digest", and read the article you find there. What you'll see is that, by virtue of the brains design, men need more processing time to sort out emotional data. Anger is kind of like a "go-to" emotion, one that is typically substituted for deeper, better defined feelings. When given enough processing time, a guy can usually give you a better verbal description of what he's feeling... frustration, envy, anxiety, etc.

 

A man's emotions are as just as deep as a womans, and he can be just as articulate in describing them, (witness the great artists and writers of history).... but, not on the fly. A woman processes emotional data like a high-speed blender. The man's only got a wooden spoon. But hey.. they still end up with the same results.

 

This impedes communications like nobody's business, as you might imagine. But it IS surmountable when you've got the right tools.

 

Now, like you, I'm pissed off about the "teen porn", but this too is surmountable. It's entirely possible for you two to develop a new understanding of one another, learn to give and receive love in ways that are best recognizable to each of you as an individuals, and learn to respect one another's boundaries. You CAN have a happy marriage and provide a solid foundation for your children.

 

But... the neighbor has to go. His presence, like a third wheel within your marriage, will END any possibility of putting this thing back together.

 

You know, I've been married 25 years now. My husband was also a VERY angry man. He's said some horrible things to me over the years. (Never called me a c*nt though... I guess he likes his head in it's original shape ... but I'd be willing to bet there's been times he was certainly thinking it.)

We had a porn problem too. The interactive variety, where he was having communications with nasty amateurs.

 

And we've overcome all that. We're happy together. We're considerate of one another. We prioritize each other's ENs (emotional needs) at the same level we do our own.

When two people are willing to give their relationship 100%.... they can climb MOUNTAINS together.

 

This thing is do-able JT. You just gotta WANT it.

[Cobra_X30]

Honestly. I am not sure. At times I do, for the kids sake and maybe mine. Other times, I just want out. I feel like we are roommates. He doesn't feel that way though.

 

I know that if I am going to make this work, I have to let go of my "friendship" or whatever I have with the other person. But how do you do so when we are all such close friends?

 

I have suggested moving closer to my job (which is an hour away) so that we could make a "fresh start." But that is not going to change any of our problems and plus it is being rather selfish of me.

 

Here is a link to a thread by AnswerPlease. This lady went through the same kind of verbal abuse and had an emotional affair with the neighbor. I think you could potentially gain by reading what she went through and where she is at right now.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t106956/

 

My bet is that your husband loves you fiercly, but is completely failing at showing you with actions.

[jtalia]

Thank you LJ for your advice. Somehow I do feel a little better about this. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

I know we deserve to make this work and I want to try. How do I get my husband to move without letting him know the real reason we need to go??? He has agreed to moving, but he would have to make the long commute. Our families are all in the same town with us and he doesn't want to leave. But I can't go forward with our marriage when I have to see my neighbor every day!! I have tried to distance myself on several occasions but I always end up running into him. All he has to do is smile and I am back to where I started. My husband would start asking questions if I totally quit conversing with him.

 

The neighbor is 14 yrs. older than me too. He is married to his 2nd wife and has grandchildren. I have had an interest in him since we moved in 5 years ago. It hasn't been until this summer we actually have pursued anything with it.

 

I keep thinking that if we move, maybe we could focus on us because he is trying. I have an outside factor that is clouding my judgement and willingness to work on this marriage.

 

Boy, I had more problems than I was willing to admit.

[jtalia]

Thanks Cobra, I will read it.

[Cobra_X30]

The neighbor is 14 yrs. older than me too. He is married to his 2nd wife and has grandchildren. I have had an interest in him since we moved in 5 years ago. It hasn't been until this summer we actually have pursued anything with it.

 

I keep thinking that if we move, maybe we could focus on us because he is trying. I have an outside factor that is clouding my judgement and willingness to work on this marriage.

 

Boy, I had more problems than I was willing to admit.

 

I'd say your chances of moving increase exponentially if you straight up tell your husband about the other guy. I'd say that moving is your best option by far. Dont worry about the kids switching schools. Having parents is more important.

 

Also, I take it from the underlined portion of your statment that you have taken this beyond a simple crush from a distance?

 

If its physical.... your marriage may not be salvagable, that is something you may want to consider!

[Ladyjane14]

How do I get my husband to move without letting him know the real reason we need to go???

 

As scary as it is.. and even though it risks the marriage.. you can always go ahead and tell him the truth.

 

Your husband will have a choice at that point, either to end the marriage or work toward recovery. Should he decide upon the latter, the truth will accomplish THREE things. It provides you with an ally to ending the EA (emotional affair). It brings him back inside your inner circle where it's possible to reestablish the "intimacy bubble" around the two of you. And it presents him with an awareness of just how serious the problems within the marriage have become.

 

Now, I'm not gonna blow a bunch of sunshine up your skirt and promise you that he's going to be cool about it. The downside to taking a risk of that magnitude is that he may be one of those guys who becomes sooooo insecure after an emotional infidelity that he's forevermore impossible to live with. If that happens, it would be YOU seeking divorce, and depending on divorce law in your state, you'll have handed him sufficient ammo so as to allow vindictiveness at settlement.

 

It's your call. You're the "man-on-the-ground", and you know him best. If you think he's going to be an a*hole about it... let him wonder at your motives, but insist on moving anyway.

[jtalia]

I feel like I will never get over the guilt of this if I don't tell him. I also feel as maybe it would be better to take this to the grave. My H and the neighbor are very good friends. (well, at least my H thinks so.) He would never in a million years imagine that the neighbor would do this. Of course, I never in a million years would have thought I would have acted on anything like this either. I know that if I tell him, he will go postal. Probably kick the neighbor's a*s and righfully so. I know if the neighbor's wife found out, she would kill us both. Just not sure I want to go down that road. I keep trying to distance myself and maybe the feelings between us will go away.

 

I don't think he would want to divorce me though. He always told me that if I had an affair, he would make my life a living hell and never leave me. He does know I have thought about it because I have told him. He knows that I am working on loving him again. He knows that I have thoughts of being with someone else. I haven't told him that there was a particular guy though. So, if I did tell him I had an affair, he wouldn't be completely shocked. The shocker is who it is with!!!

 

Yes Cobra, it has been physical. I didn't want to admit it because I still am trying to believe it hasn't happened. This is first time I have actually said anything about it.

 

I am sh*t.