What makes a good marriage?

[Kasan]

You know, I am of the mindset, that sometimes we make marriage harder than it has to be. We analyze things to death and just don't enjoy the moments.

[Great Gazoo]

Well I alway's understood that if you are not whole with yourself first than it's very difficult to be 100% in any relationship. Hope that made sense.

 

AP:)

 

Well that is a interesting comment. I am not sure if I don't love myself enough or that I feel sorry for myself or both are related to each other. I have been told I feel sorry for myself and dwell on the bad things in life not the good things.

[Great Gazoo]

Maybe it is how you approach the communications with your wife. I think that I finally found a way to talk to my husband without having him tune me out.

 

We have a huge kitchen island where we eat. We sit shoulder to shoulder and discuss our day. I will casually bring up something I feel needs to be discussed with him, we discuss it and move forward.

 

I hate to say, that we don't even look at each other but it seems to be working right now--of course I will put this theory to test when we have our next argument.

 

So, I guess what I am getting at is you need to learn how your wife wants to discuss the big stuff.

 

I tend to be a get in your face kind of person (I am working on it) so I think my husband appreciates the new improved me.

 

You have to understand that there will be times (sometimes long) where a marriage just cruises along. Marriage is boring, hard, and always needs a lot of work. One of you at different times will put in more work than the other.

 

It is just what it is.

 

I understand what your getting at. We talk and work out arguments. I just feel as if she never wants to make a decision about anything, it is always me that has to decide things about our relationship. I wish she would tell me what she REALLY thinks because i don't think she does because then it would seem as if she really just does not care.

[Great Gazoo]

Then there's the crux of it isn't it?

 

Perhaps individual counceling is in order, or maybe even some spiritual guidance?

 

I don't know, me and god or mother nature or who ever seem to get along pretty good and I am not a fan of counseling, discussing issues yes but not with a professional.

[Great Gazoo]

You know, I am of the mindset, that sometimes we make marriage harder than it has to be. We analyze things to death and just don't enjoy the moments.

 

Maybe that is part of it also, that we should try to enjoy things more, I am starting to feel as if our communication is just not that great, we talk but no one is listening.

[Meaplus3]

Well that is a interesting comment. I am not sure if I don't love myself enough or that I feel sorry for myself or both are related to each other. I have been told I feel sorry for myself and dwell on the bad things in life not the good things.

 

So in other word's you have been told your a negative person? Because if that's true, that's directly IMO related to your self esteem. The reason I say that is because I know when I tend to focus on the "Negative's" it because I am feeling low about myself. Try and think postive. Look around you and see all the many thing's you have to be greatful for. I try and do this everyday, especially since I had an ea.

 

AP:)

[Great Gazoo]

So in other word's you have been told your a negative person? Because if that's true, that's directly IMO related to your self esteem. The reason I say that is because I know when I tend to focus on the "Negative's" it because I am feeling low about myself. Try and think postive. Look around you and see all the many thing's you have to be greatful for. I try and do this everyday, especially since I had an ea.

 

AP:)

 

Yes that is what I have been told and it is true to some extent, it can cause spells of depression and doing some very dangerous activities that can be harmful to myself, this part I have just recently told my wife but seeing she is 2000 miles away at the moment the discussion will have to wait till her return, this is the communication part.

 

I will try to remember to focus on positives always, for myself I just feel lost at the moment with her changing and these dreams of having a family changing. That in turn causes everything else to change and I wish she for once could have some answers.

[Integra]

Love

 

Open Honest communication in good times

and bad.. Easy to communicate when things

are all happy and sunny.. Harder than hell

to communicate honestly when things are

falling apart.

 

Respect.. Not just for your partner, but

for yourself.. If one doesn't respect themselves

then they can't expect there partner to respect

them as well.

 

Understanding/Forgiveness.. We are all human.

We all make mistakes.. Understand how and why

the mistakes have been made.. Forgive not only

your partner, but you also have to be able to

forgive yourself for being human as well.

 

Smoking Sex life.... Here's where most of us do

not do our best communication.. You have to

be honest and open with yourself and your

partner about everything embarassing, gross,

freaky, whatever your thing is.. Or whatever

your complaints in that area are.. You have

to be willing to share..

 

Both partners have to be present in the

relationship 100%.. It takes two.. If both

aren't giving it there all, when it comes to

communication, compromises, understanding,

forgiveness and so on.. Then you can't

accomplish anything.. All that happens if

one person isn't throwing in their 100% is

resentment and deep seated resentment

towards your partner can cause more damage

to ones relationship than we can ever imagine.

Until it's too late.

 

I have not always had a good marriage.

I had several years of pure crap. However,

in the past 5 yrs, I have started developing

an absolutely amazing marriage. But, both

my H and I had to learn the above things.

And we both had to put our all into the

practices of these things. We've had

to work harder at our marriage, than anything

else, but it has been worth it. At this point

in time, I could not, even for the briefest

moment, imagine my life without my H.

[Kasan]

Yeah we have had 5 years of difficulties with trying to have children, from infertility to a miscarriage then infertility to a stillborn then etopic and now infertility again. During this time I could not cope anymore and started snooping around chat sites, I figured out why I was doing that and told her about it, that was probably 3 years ago. Since she had a emotional thing with her boss.

 

I think it is love the only thing that glues us together, nothing else but is it enough. It has been eating at me seeing she is gone to a convention with him.

 

Have you and your wife truly grieved the loss of the possibility of never being able to have children? I can only guess the amount of pain and disappointment you both have gone through.

 

Men and women grieve very differently. You turned to chat sites she had an emotional thing with her boss. Have you turned to each other? How the both of you haven't shattered is beyond me.

 

If you feel that love is the only thing holding you together and you are worried--do something about it now before grief eats away anymore of your marriage. It is necessary that you grieve--you share in this sorrow with your wife.

 

Both of you must have so many unresolved feelings about the pregnancy attempts, guilt, anger, pain to name a few. Frankly the both of you have probably gone through hell and back.

 

We can give you lines on what makes a good marriage, but you need to look inside yourself and find a way for you and your wife to make your way back to each other in this marriage.

 

Leave no stone unturned, whether you choose counseling or if you lock yourselves in a room until you come to some kind of understanding if you truly want the marriage to work.

 

I think that you are sincere but don't know how to take the steps necessary.

 

Keep posting--see a counselor, read the necessary books. Do the work! This is one of the times when marriage is hard but the good things never come easily.

[Great Gazoo]

Love

 

Open Honest communication in good times

and bad.. Easy to communicate when things

are all happy and sunny.. Harder than hell

to communicate honestly when things are

falling apart.

 

Respect.. Not just for your partner, but

for yourself.. If one doesn't respect themselves

then they can't expect there partner to respect

them as well.

 

Understanding/Forgiveness.. We are all human.

We all make mistakes.. Understand how and why

the mistakes have been made.. Forgive not only

your partner, but you also have to be able to

forgive yourself for being human as well.

 

Smoking Sex life.... Here's where most of us do

not do our best communication.. You have to

be honest and open with yourself and your

partner about everything embarassing, gross,

freaky, whatever your thing is.. Or whatever

your complaints in that area are.. You have

to be willing to share..

 

Both partners have to be present in the

relationship 100%.. It takes two.. If both

aren't giving it there all, when it comes to

communication, compromises, understanding,

forgiveness and so on.. Then you can't

accomplish anything.. All that happens if

one person isn't throwing in their 100% is

resentment and deep seated resentment

towards your partner can cause more damage

to ones relationship than we can ever imagine.

Until it's too late.

 

I have not always had a good marriage.

I had several years of pure crap. However,

in the past 5 yrs, I have started developing

an absolutely amazing marriage. But, both

my H and I had to learn the above things.

And we both had to put our all into the

practices of these things. We've had

to work harder at our marriage, than anything

else, but it has been worth it. At this point

in time, I could not, even for the briefest

moment, imagine my life without my H.

 

Thank you for that post

[Great Gazoo]

Have you and your wife truly grieved the loss of the possibility of never being able to have children? I can only guess the amount of pain and disappointment you both have gone through.

 

Men and women grieve very differently. You turned to chat sites she had an emotional thing with her boss. Have you turned to each other? How the both of you haven't shattered is beyond me.

 

If you feel that love is the only thing holding you together and you are worried--do something about it now before grief eats away anymore of your marriage. It is necessary that you grieve--you share in this sorrow with your wife.

 

Both of you must have so many unresolved feelings about the pregnancy attempts, guilt, anger, pain to name a few. Frankly the both of you have probably gone through hell and back.

 

We can give you lines on what makes a good marriage, but you need to look inside yourself and find a way for you and your wife to make your way back to each other in this marriage.

 

Leave no stone unturned, whether you choose counseling or if you lock yourselves in a room until you come to some kind of understanding if you truly want the marriage to work.

 

I think that you are sincere but don't know how to take the steps necessary.

 

Keep posting--see a counselor, read the necessary books. Do the work! This is one of the times when marriage is hard but the good things never come easily.

 

No I don't think we grieved together, in fact I think we have been moving apart ever since. Maybe that is something we should look at but there have been so many arguments and bad feelings since this all started. There are unresolved feelings indeed.

 

We have come very close to shattering, from me being depressed and wanting to die to her crying and telling me she wishes she was dead. There have been so many tears.

 

I have been angry at everyone at some point, even god or whatever power there is out there.

 

She has commented many times that she feels unhappy for me because she knows it is her that can't give me a child. She knows how I feel and it bothers her. I assure her that it is not her fault yet I can't deny the fact I am not happy with the situation.

 

She has moved on in some ways with the encouragement of me, taking on a new job which allows her to travel some which she seems to enjoy. I thought it would be better for her than to sit at home and feel upset. It worked but that is where she met this guy and now she seems to have forgotten me in some respects, or that is how I see it. The last arguments involve the discussion of who is leaving and when. Yet neither of us wants to go anywhere.

 

I will have a good discussion with her and try to resolve some of these issues.

[Trialbyfire]

Integra, an amazing post. It's not only applicable to marriage but also to any committed relationship.

[Kasan]

No I don't think we grieved together, in fact I think we have been moving apart ever since. Maybe that is something we should look at but there have been so many arguments and bad feelings since this all started. There are unresolved feelings indeed.

 

We have come very close to shattering, from me being depressed and wanting to die to her crying and telling me she wishes she was dead. There have been so many tears.

 

I have been angry at everyone at some point, even god or whatever power there is out there.

 

I have never gone through what you and your wife have gone through, but I have a friend who went through the same thing.

 

I am sorry to say that her marriage couldn't survive the disappointment of not being able to have a child. The focus of the marriage went from each other, to trying to conceive a child.

 

Sex became a chore, (instead of love making) and she just couldn't handle the disappointment of not becoming pregnant. Her husband didn't know how to make her feel better (men fix things) and turned inward.

 

What was once a love story became a tale of anguish and disappointment. By the time they got on with their lives, it was to late. He had met someone else (who made him feel like a rock star instead of a failure) and she was left with another loss.

 

They thought they could work through this on their own--but she admits to me that she wished she had sought out counseling (back then) even if it was only for herself. To this day she feels stuck and is finding it hard to move on with her life. She not only mourns the loss of her babies, but her husband as well.

[Great Gazoo]

I have never gone through what you and your wife have gone through, but I have a friend who went through the same thing.

 

I am sorry to say that her marriage couldn't survive the disappointment of not being able to have a child. The focus of the marriage went from each other, to trying to conceive a child.

 

Sex became a chore, (instead of love making) and she just couldn't handle the disappointment of not becoming pregnant. Her husband didn't know how to make her feel better (men fix things) and turned inward.

 

What was once a love story became a tale of anguish and disappointment. By the time they got on with their lives, it was to late. He had met someone else (who made him feel like a rock star instead of a failure) and she was left with another loss.

 

They thought they could work through this on their own--but she admits to me that she wished she had sought out counseling (back then) even if it was only for herself. To this day she feels stuck and is finding it hard to move on with her life. She not only mourns the loss of her babies, but her husband as well.

 

Yes I can understand what happened to your friends marriage, i have lived through it. For a time the marriage did seem it was solely for the purpose of trying to have a child. Sex was based on her cycles but it became too painful every month and basically that came to a stop. We don't even bother trying anymore.

 

We came to the conclusion something was wrong. It was the first time that even fertility pills had no effect. We believe it is some side effect from the cancer drug she was given to end the etopic pregnancy. At any rate the specialist are so busy that it is not till the middle of November she has a appointment. This is after more than a year. We have discussed that if nothing can be done, after all the last test are done that we will split but somehow stayed married??? yet I know it is not what either of us wants.

 

I also did not know how to make her feel better that is why I encouraged her to do something different with work, it was a good opportunity but it seems it worked too well but I always tell her I am happy for her. I could of easily ran out and found someone else by now to make me feel, as you said, a rock star but I find that so wrong.

 

That is what feeds my poor self esteem, the fact there is nothing I could do for her, I did everything I could for her but I can't fix this. I have no idea how to fix it. It makes me feel sad and angry about how life can treat us. I mean we had such a good marriage till this came along and it is destroying everything. We have been together most of our lives, since she was 16. It has been 5 years of hell and disappointments out of a 13 year marriage and 15 years of being together.

 

Some have told me why not just adopt but that is easier said than done and at this point it is too late, it won't help matters at this point. I talked to her last night and she is coming home and she asked me if I was going to yell at her because then she is not coming home. I told her we just need to talk but it hurt for her to think all I want to do is yell at her. In fact all I want to do is explain to her that this is destroying me and at this rate I could end up dead. I told someone how I feel about this and the main word I could keep coming up with is I feel lonely.

[Kasan]

I also did not know how to make her feel better that is why I encouraged her to do something different with work, it was a good opportunity but it seems it worked too well but I always tell her I am happy for her. I could of easily ran out and found someone else by now to make me feel, as you said, a rock star but I find that so wrong.

 

That is what feeds my poor self esteem, the fact there is nothing I could do for her, I did everything I could for her but I can't fix this. I have no idea how to fix it. It makes me feel sad and angry about how life can treat us. I mean we had such a good marriage till this came along and it is destroying everything. We have been together most of our lives, since she was 16. It has been 5 years of hell and disappointments out of a 13 year marriage and 15 years of being together. lonely.

 

This is truly heartbreaking to me--I do know that you can't fix her--she needs to fix herself.

 

I understand why your self esteem has suffered. Do something for yourself now--go talk to someone about this. You need to be able to come to some resolution whether or not you stay married. The counselor will have the tools that you need to work this out.

 

There is no need to drag this stuff around one more minute or one more day. I know that you did the best that you could--you need to know this yourself--way down inside. You are not a victim you are a survivor--look at what you have gone through.

 

Maybe your going to counseling (or a minister) will be the catalyst necessary for your wife to go.

 

We only have one chance to live this life--

[Great Gazoo]

This is truly heartbreaking to me--I do know that you can't fix her--she needs to fix herself.

 

I understand why your self esteem has suffered. Do something for yourself now--go talk to someone about this. You need to be able to come to some resolution whether or not you stay married. The counselor will have the tools that you need to work this out.

 

There is no need to drag this stuff around one more minute or one more day. I know that you did the best that you could--you need to know this yourself--way down inside. You are not a victim you are a survivor--look at what you have gone through.

 

Maybe your going to counseling (or a minister) will be the catalyst necessary for your wife to go.

 

We only have one chance to live this life--

 

 

Thanks for your concern. Yes this has left me all very confused, damaged and broken inside. I will never understand it but I will seriously think about finding some form of help. I do need to look after myself and my wife can do what she pleases. I think at this point it is too late and I get the feeling I should start looking for a good lawyer.

[StretchGee]

...why i never attacked her on her emotional episode with her boss ... so she gets a pass from me.

 

GG,

 

You've mentioned several times that you gave your W a pass on the EA. Are you sure? I've been down this road and it leads to resentment. Integra had some good thoughts on resentment. Resentment grows into hatred and will destroy a relationship.

 

Also, you sound depressed. You've both had some very hard times. It may be situational depression as opposed to clinical (if there is such a thing). But if you can talk to an MD for some short term treatment for depression it may go a long way towards allowing you to delve into the issue without thoughts of death and dying.

 

Depression kills communication in a relationship.

[Bobby NoBrains]

GG,

 

You've mentioned several times that you gave your W a pass on the EA. Are you sure? I've been down this road and it leads to resentment. Integra had some good thoughts on resentment. Resentment grows into hatred and will destroy a relationship.

 

Also, you sound depressed. You've both had some very hard times. It may be situational depression as opposed to clinical (if there is such a thing). But if you can talk to an MD for some short term treatment for depression it may go a long way towards allowing you to delve into the issue without thoughts of death and dying.

 

Depression kills communication in a relationship.

 

I totally agree with your post StretchGee. And yes, there is something called as reactive depression where your depression is caused by the situation you are facing for a long time that is destructive to your self-esteem and physical/mental well-being. It is also treatable.

 

To the OP, don't let the EA take place, because that is going to harm your marriage. While I sympathize with your wanting to give your wife space and time, but the EA is not the right direction for her to go. That will only serve to put more space between you and her. There's prolly more I should say, but I can't think of it right now.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Great Gazoo]

GG,

 

You've mentioned several times that you gave your W a pass on the EA. Are you sure? I've been down this road and it leads to resentment. Integra had some good thoughts on resentment. Resentment grows into hatred and will destroy a relationship.

 

Also, you sound depressed. You've both had some very hard times. It may be situational depression as opposed to clinical (if there is such a thing). But if you can talk to an MD for some short term treatment for depression it may go a long way towards allowing you to delve into the issue without thoughts of death and dying.

 

Depression kills communication in a relationship.

 

 

I understand this, I really don't think I resented her for it, I tried to be very understanding. The problem is she never held up to her side of the agreement when I found out.

 

Maybe depression kills communication but when you have a heart to heart talk and mention your close to suicide attempt and she barely listens to you. When you try to talk to her after 7 days and she is too tired to listen so you leave her alone only to find she is back to her secretive text messaging when just 2 minutes before she was so tired, that makes resentment and hatred and it will destroy this marriage into a million pieces.

[Great Gazoo]

I totally agree with your post StretchGee. And yes, there is something called as reactive depression where your depression is caused by the situation you are facing for a long time that is destructive to your self-esteem and physical/mental well-being. It is also treatable.

 

To the OP, don't let the EA take place, because that is going to harm your marriage. While I sympathize with your wanting to give your wife space and time, but the EA is not the right direction for her to go. That will only serve to put more space between you and her. There's prolly more I should say, but I can't think of it right now.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

 

Well I might have some instances of depression and I agree it is destroying me. I really have never heard of reactive depression but when I was younger I had serious issues with my dad and it made me feel very low. When I settled things with him everything seemed better but then this came along and maybe I am back to where I started.

 

I know that there has to be a conclusion to this now or I will never feel better. At this point she has upset me enough that I will offer her the door. I can't for the life of me understand how a loved one can turn so around. How a nice guy or woman can get stepped on without even a care for your life only for a chance to have some EA or whatever else.

 

I let her read some of my post from LS and some emails about my dangerous activities and it seems it was a complete waste of time. Maybe she will keep reading my post, I never gave her my user name but she knows it is LS and it wont be that hard to track my post but at this point I don't care. I never did anything wrong and I doubt she will even take the time.

 

My options are very limited but I won't mention what my plans are.

[Bobby NoBrains]

I've found that I can't always understand what motivates people to do certain things. I've also found that the best solution for myself is to stop bothering about the reasons of why the other person did something, and to just focus on what I'm gonna do about it. A book I read said that there's three ways of looking at something. His way, her way, and the right way. Try to find the right way to look at things. It will help you get a better perspective, perhaps an objective one, and you will be better able to deal with the pain and hurt that you are going through.

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Unluckilymadlyinlove]

Have a difference, or changing opinion, on kids does make it really sticky. That is a hard one because neither one should really compromise. Has she expressed to you why she no longer wants children? Perhaps it really has to do with something else...afraid of what it might do to her body, your lives would change too drastically, uncertain if she will make a good mommy. Perhaps if there is an underlying issue and you can figure out why she has had a change of heart, maybe she might want kids again.

 

I think it would be worth discussing with her or at least seeing a counselor before you walk away. You are on here because you do still care about her and you do still care about your marriage. By coming on here it shows that you are willing to work on it....more than a lot of men I know!

 

I hope you find happiness in whatever you choose to do.

[Storyrider]

GG, I hope you are OK tonight. I just caught up with this thread. I'm sorry your wife isn't taking your feelings seriously.

 

Even though you don't believe in counseling, do you have any friends or relatives nearby who you could talk to and lean on a little bit? I have found that helps a lot when I am down. Don't try to handle this all alone.

 

I don't disagree with anything the posters above have said, but at the same time I do think there is a bit of voodoo, fate, luck, or whatever you want to call it that goes into making a good marriage.

 

Also, I think the couple has to be passionate about each other on enough levels to push through the problems that arise. There has to be something in your partner that you continue to desire and need, despite obstacles, that makes you eager to overcome the obstacles. And it has to be more than just comfort and stability that you desire from them, I think.

 

I don't believe problems always stem from a failure in one or both partners to work hard enough in the marriage. I think sometimes it just happens that there isn't enough momentum generated by the energy between the two people to keep it going. Certainly some of that momentum is generated by sweat and hard work, but some of it should be a spark that is there between the husband and wife to begin with. If you and your wife had that spark at the beginning, I think there is still a lot of hope.

[Great Gazoo]

GG, I hope you are OK tonight. I just caught up with this thread. I'm sorry your wife isn't taking your feelings seriously.

 

Even though you don't believe in counseling, do you have any friends or relatives nearby who you could talk to and lean on a little bit? I have found that helps a lot when I am down. Don't try to handle this all alone.

 

I don't disagree with anything the posters above have said, but at the same time I do think there is a bit of voodoo, fate, luck, or whatever you want to call it that goes into making a good marriage.

 

Also, I think the couple has to be passionate about each other on enough levels to push through the problems that arise. There has to be something in your partner that you continue to desire and need, despite obstacles, that makes you eager to overcome the obstacles. And it has to be more than just comfort and stability that you desire from them, I think.

 

I don't believe problems always stem from a failure in one or both partners to work hard enough in the marriage. I think sometimes it just happens that there isn't enough momentum generated by the energy between the two people to keep it going. Certainly some of that momentum is generated by sweat and hard work, but some of it should be a spark that is there between the husband and wife to begin with. If you and your wife had that spark at the beginning, I think there is still a lot of hope.

 

Thanks for the concern SR, I don't really have any one close to talk with, I mean I have lots of family that live close by but we are just not a close family in respect to personal matters. The main point was to talk with the one person who was concerned, my wife.

 

Everything worked out for now, we have a peace treaty you might say and things have been really great. We had a major breakdown in communication which started the wheel turning for all the problems. Her EA was more her sharing her thoughts about how she felt about the marriage. She was very upset with me also and wanted out of the marriage because of all the issues and grief related to the problems trying to have a child.

 

You make some good points about the spark needed,we have that spark, in fact we have a lot of good things going for us but a very huge hurdle to cross. I feel that this is the calm before the storm, in fact that is how I described it to her as in there will be some big decisions to make in the next 6 months as the specialist start their flurry of tests again. We agreed not to talk about the subject for the time being and to give this a chance to work itself out.

 

We are very much still in love but at the same time we need some kind of conclusion to this dilemma. What that will be we really don't know at this time, we will hopefully figure it out as we move ahead.

 

I have been taking St John Wort to help with the down periods I feel. I am not really sure what to think about it, some times I feel good but I still have down times. I am not sure but it could be a increase in anxiety as I have read it may cause a increase in anxiety. Anyways thanks for your input and others also, only time will tell how it unfolds.

[Im_unhappy]

communication, forgiveness, good sex, and number one rule is GOD GOD GOD, he has to be IN your marriage!