separated in the same house; would wife come around

[Kenyth]

Brother, you just don't get it. You act like a pushover and wonder why you keep having to get up off the floor. See, I'm guessing part of the reason she's acting like this is because she believes she is in charge of everything in the home, including you. As far as I can make out at this point, she's right.

 

Every inch of ground you seem to be getting happens when you raise your hackles.

 

It's the kid's house too? I understand they live there and call it home, but their names aren't on the paper. That's a complete guilt trip which absolves her of any responsibility. If she wants the house and kids and not you, then she had better be able to make the damn mortgage payment. It's a package deal and she can't cherry pick. You're her husband, not her daddy. You're not running a halfway house either. You're either in, or you're out, so make your choice.

 

Now, it may seem I want you to be cruel. That's not the case. Love her as much as she'll allow, but don't let her lead you around with half-hearted maybe's. If you aren't already going, see a marriage counselor. Put her on the hot seat and ask the hard questions!

 

"Do you want to be married to me or don't you? Either way, I need to know because I've gotta make plans for my future and I need to know whether they should include you."

[Kenyth]

Many thanks. Yes, I should apply 'tough love' and try to forget what she feels/thinks. She is confused, as far as I can see, and I cannot change this.

Yes, I allowed my self esteem to go down and down, and this is not me. The problem is she would not move out of the house.

I told her if she does not want to live with me to just stop sitting and make arrangements to move out. I really need more of your posts to toughen up :-)

 

Dude, this is the chain of events. You get a lawyer and he helps you decide what you want and what you can get. Then you get a court date. Then the judge decides who gets what and who has to move out.

[redblack66]

Brother, you just don't get it. You act like a pushover and wonder why you keep having to get up off the floor. See, I'm guessing part of the reason she's acting like this is because she believes she is in charge of everything in the home, including you. As far as I can make out at this point, she's right.

 

Every inch of ground you seem to be getting happens when you raise your hackles.

 

It's the kid's house too? I understand they live there and call it home, but their names aren't on the paper. That's a complete guilt trip which absolves her of any responsibility. If she wants the house and kids and not you, then she had better be able to make the damn mortgage payment. It's a package deal and she can't cherry pick. You're her husband, not her daddy. You're not running a halfway house either. You're either in, or you're out, so make your choice.

 

Now, it may seem I want you to be cruel. That's not the case. Love her as much as she'll allow, but don't let her lead you around with half-hearted maybe's. If you aren't already going, see a marriage counselor. Put her on the hot seat and ask the hard questions!

 

"Do you want to be married to me or don't you? Either way, I need to know because I've gotta make plans for my future and I need to know whether they should include you."

 

Many thanks. You are SO right. Yes, she believes she is charge of most of the things. Her understanding is what I make belongs to both of us, which seems right, but she is not making any effort to generate some income, and her profession is such that she can make much more than me, if she wants to.

 

With all the negative comments I am getting from her about the past, I also think I have been too good for too long and I better get firm.

We are seeing a marriage counselor next week, and I am thinking I must ask this question "Do you want to be married..." point black. The answers I have been getting are "I am not ready, and I do not know if I will be and when", and likely this will I get for example:

"You see, I am not wearing my wedding ring." Then I have to make conclusions.

 

Yes, she explains nearly everything with this is better for the kids, and the guilt for whatever happens is nearly always on me.

[redblack66]

I just asked my wife "Do you want to be married to me". She said "I want to be separated". I asked again the same question; she said "Let me think about it". WTF

I told her to figure herself out and let me know.

She says she is OK married as far as we do not have sex. WTF again.

 

HELP! I am not getting it.

 

She is calling our real estate agent to evaluate the house. I told her again to figure out herself first.

[GeminiWoman]

I suspect your wife is afraid of what is on the other side of marriage and is using you as a backup plan. She wants to be separated but not divorce. That means she wants to keep her options open. A lot of people leave the marriage and find it can be a cold, cold world out there and then suddenly want back in. It's all about security, not love.

 

There's a couple of things you can try : Tell her you are willing to separate but it must be a controlled separation (there's a whole book on this) with very definite rules including no dating other people. See how she reacts - that will tell you a lot. If she just needs a little space to get clarity, she will agree to this. If she wants you to be Plan B - she won't because she will need to date to find out if there is someone better out there.

 

Or tell her the options are 1)stay married, actively work on the marriage and if that doesn't work or if she doesn't want to then 2)separate with the intent on divorcing. There is no option C - separate but stay married. I can tell you, if you try to separate but stay married, you will find it very hard. Fir starters, a lot of quality women won't date men who are separated with no plans to divorce. Why would anyone? There is no future with someone who is stuck in limbo. I am 4 months into a 1 year mandatory legal separation and it is tough. You're not single but you don't feel married. And in my state, as long as you are legally married seeing someone else is adultery - doesn't matter that you are legally separated. It would be wise to seek counsel from an attorney on this. It might give you a new perspective on things.

 

Tell her you will take matters into your own hands if she doesn't make a decision soon. You don't need her permission to divorce. In my humble opinion, she's stringing you along for her own purposes. She doesn't sound like she really cares all that much about you. Otherwise, she would also be concerned about your happiness and leaving someone in limbo like means you can't really get on with your life.

[redblack66]

I suspect your wife is afraid of what is on the other side of marriage and is using you as a backup plan. She wants to be separated but not divorce. That means she wants to keep her options open. A lot of people leave the marriage and find it can be a cold, cold world out there and then suddenly want back in. It's all about security, not love.

 

There's a couple of things you can try : Tell her you are willing to separate but it must be a controlled separation (there's a whole book on this) with very definite rules including no dating other people. See how she reacts - that will tell you a lot. If she just needs a little space to get clarity, she will agree to this. If she wants you to be Plan B - she won't because she will need to date to find out if there is someone better out there.

 

Or tell her the options are 1)stay married, actively work on the marriage and if that doesn't work or if she doesn't want to then 2)separate with the intent on divorcing. There is no option C - separate but stay married. I can tell you, if you try to separate but stay married, you will find it very hard. Fir starters, a lot of quality women won't date men who are separated with no plans to divorce. Why would anyone? There is no future with someone who is stuck in limbo. I am 4 months into a 1 year mandatory legal separation and it is tough. You're not single but you don't feel married. And in my state, as long as you are legally married seeing someone else is adultery - doesn't matter that you are legally separated. It would be wise to seek counsel from an attorney on this. It might give you a new perspective on things.

 

Tell her you will take matters into your own hands if she doesn't make a decision soon. You don't need her permission to divorce. In my humble opinion, she's stringing you along for her own purposes. She doesn't sound like she really cares all that much about you. Otherwise, she would also be concerned about your happiness and leaving someone in limbo like means you can't really get on with your life.

 

Very good strategies/questions. I will ask them during our MC.

I feel she wants to have a backup plan, so not in a hurry for divorce.

Yes, she does not care much about me, it is all about "her".

 

Today we had a Halloween party and she was pretty fun to be around and we had several jokes. She seems to enjoy the control she has around the house. I wonder if insecure people feel better when they

have control over silly things.

 

I am really trying to ignore the situation for at least a week, that is doing this 180 or a last resort technique. I do not know if this will work, but nothing else works. So, I will be trying to focus on myself and not to pay much attention to her. I feel I should do that for my own sake. And I should be thinking more about life without her than with her.

[Woggle]

I would serve her with divorce papers and tell her to sign them or work on the marriage. If she wants out of the marriage she needs to get out right now. A man should stay in limbo for the shortest amount of time possible. If she wants to be own her own she needs to be on her own and make it quick.

[Gunny376]

You've got a lot of really good opinions here.

 

In a relationship? The one that cares the least ~ controls the relationship. Unfortunately? At this time? That's not you ~ you obviously care more about her than she does about you ~ and she seems to be one of those persons that "needs" to be in control.

 

I believe it was Jmargel (might have been "Rooster") that told his wife when she wanted to leave? "Go ahead! But when you do? There's no coming back! Ever!"

 

I've been where your at ~ WW ~ WWW (Walk-Away-Wife) young children.

 

These days? All a woman has to do is hint that she's got doubts and wants out ~ and she's nothing but a distant memory. But, then again? I've purposely set my life up such that it doesn't hinge nor swing on the whims of another. I'll trust ~ but only so far as I can verify.

 

To be honest? Aside from ilmw, about the only success I've seen in a situation like yours is envoking the "180's" combined with in-difference combine with "tough-love"

 

Perhaps Lady Jane and other regulars can re-call some other sucess stories ~ but PSWX and ilmw and one named "UKSurfer" are the only one's I recall reconciling with their WW?

 

So the actual chances of you and your wife both here at LS and statistically are slim to none ~ and "Slim?" he just left town!

 

There was one other that was successful in reconciling with his wife ~ who went looney-tunes on him ~ BIG TIME!

 

Wolfe ~ and came on here and went total "tough love" ~ and I mean BIG TIME! She couldn't get back into the marriage fast enough!

 

Search this fourm's using

 

"Wolfe"

"ilmw"

"PSWX"

 

They all got back together. We never heard from "Wolfe" again.

 

ilmw and his wife got back together ~ and he still post from time to time.

 

Perry (PSWX) still post from time to time ~ but he's still has his doubts.

 

TBH (Too be honest) I'd dump her so quick it would make her head swim. I got married when I was 22, I was very happy and content before I got married ~ and I've been very happy and content since I've got divorced for the most part ~ although getting back here in civilian la~la has been one hell of a trip ~ I'm here to tell ya!

 

When someone tells you they want out of a relationship? All that means is you've got to go out and find yourself someone else? Someone who appreciates you for ~ you! Someone new, fresh, interesting, cooperative!

 

Damn tha' bad luck!

 

I rather be single and alone ~ than married and miserable!

 

To me? This fear of being single and alone for the rest of your life? Its just a bunch of "hog-wash" There are plenty of people that are happly married for 40+ years that end up divorced, single, alone!

 

"Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be!" (Abe Lincoln) ~ DAMN RIGHT!

 

The person that's responsible for your happines? Is YOU! Not her! She's not in control of the rudder of your life! You are!

 

She wants out? So be it!

 

She doesn't want what you've got to offer? Forget her! Either she's in or she's out? IN for a penny ~ in for a pound!

 

Whatever she's (or for the ladies "he's) got to offer? You can find just as good as ~ if not better! Just as much of ~ if not more from someone else!

 

Just that plain! Just that simple!

 

The true measure of success in life? Is how many people attend your funeral and who will truly miss you!

 

Not because of power, money, success, accomplishments, degrees earned ~ but because of who you were in life!

 

How you treated people in life ~ life is about relationships ~ not money, power, prestige, control!

 

We should each live our lives as though we had our own personal little bird on our shoulder ~ and each day we wake? We ask the little bird ~ "Is the day to day?" The day we die!

 

And we should live our lives without "regreet!"

 

What you're asking us ~ me ~ here is if and when you should divorce.

 

When you no longer have regreets!

 

When you no longer have bitterness!

 

When you no longer have anger!

 

When you no longer have remorse!

 

When you no longer have issues!

 

When you no longer have sadness!

 

When you no longer have any emotions involved, and you can truly say:

 

"I no longer want you to be a part of my life! And I no longer want to be a part of your life!

 

Go in peace and with God! I truly wish you the best and happiness!

[jmargel]

Yep.. that was me. My wife played that game during our first year of marriage, little did I know the control freak she was. I would do what RB is doing now and it just made her more in control.

 

She used my fear of her leaving as a way to control me. One morning I just snapped and told her to leave. She was like a deer in headlights because I really threw her off track. Only then did I know the leverage that I gave up earlier.

 

I have told her and she knows she can leave and when she gets into her little fits, I tell her where the door is. She is more than welcome to go but she will never be allowed to be back in. I don't use that as a threat or ultamatium, but I don't personally believe in second chances. If you are going to end the relationship you better be damn serious about it. And if you want to stay with me you better treat me as good as I treat you or 'See ya later baby'. Too many sweet, loving, fun, intelligent single women out there. Life is too short to be treated as a doormat.

 

You teach others how to treat you and by you coddling to your wife for all these years you have taught her how to mistreat you. Get some self-confidence already. IMO I would tell her tonight 'Babe, I'm tired of your ****, tired of your mistreatment towards me and you sitting on the fence. Unless you want to put 110% into this then I am done with you.' If she waffles on that, then just walk away, go away for the weekend by yourself. Have fun, start living your life. Stop living your life around this woman who is NOT acting like your wife.

 

Honestly if you were to meet her today for the very first time and she treated you like this, would you even want to date her? Personally I would run away as fast as possible. Any chick that is going to mistreat me and deny me sex for months on end can find someone else to make miserable.

[redblack66]

Yep.. that was me. My wife played that game during our first year of marriage, little did I know the control freak she was. I would do what RB is doing now and it just made her more in control.

 

She used my fear of her leaving as a way to control me. One morning I just snapped and told her to leave. She was like a deer in headlights because I really threw her off track. Only then did I know the leverage that I gave up earlier.

 

I have told her and she knows she can leave and when she gets into her little fits, I tell her where the door is. She is more than welcome to go but she will never be allowed to be back in. I don't use that as a threat or ultamatium, but I don't personally believe in second chances. If you are going to end the relationship you better be damn serious about it. And if you want to stay with me you better treat me as good as I treat you or 'See ya later baby'. Too many sweet, loving, fun, intelligent single women out there. Life is too short to be treated as a doormat.

 

You teach others how to treat you and by you coddling to your wife for all these years you have taught her how to mistreat you. Get some self-confidence already. IMO I would tell her tonight 'Babe, I'm tired of your ****, tired of your mistreatment towards me and you sitting on the fence. Unless you want to put 110% into this then I am done with you.' If she waffles on that, then just walk away, go away for the weekend by yourself. Have fun, start living your life. Stop living your life around this woman who is NOT acting like your wife.

 

Honestly if you were to meet her today for the very first time and she treated you like this, would you even want to date her? Personally I would run away as fast as possible. Any chick that is going to mistreat me and deny me sex for months on end can find someone else to make miserable.

 

You have accumulated a lot of wisdom, and I am really grateful for your sharing. Little history may shed some light.

 

She decided to end the marriagee, but was not honest about it. She moved with the kids in August to her parents and told me that she needed the 'space' to figure herself out. A week after that, she tells me "I am building a house here and you can move on with your life." (About the house I think she is not rational, as she is not working.) Then I decided I am not losing the kids, talked to a lawyer and brought them back through the court.

This was the most difficult decision for me to make: I knew that it would destroy hopes for reconciliation. However, I felt that my wife had some respect

after I did this, despite the tremendous anger.

As a "side effect", she came too with the kids and we are in the same house now. I thought I was done with her, but feelings and common sense surfaced.

 

She is angry and blames me for not allowing them to leave a happy life, 2,000 miles away from the father. Every single person I have talked to says that going away with kids like that is not in their best interest. Here, I should say I have a respectful profession, secure lifestyle, not rich, but enough to be very comfortable. In addition, I have been an excellent access parent of my older son from my previous marriage.

 

Being divorced already, I know well the damage that comes after divorce to everybody involved, especially the children. So, I believe both parties should put really honest effort to make it through difficult times.

 

I know and I have told her, that once we are finished, she does not exist in my life and our contacts will be minimal, mainly e-mail, and only about the kids and nothing, but nothing else. She prefers to be friends, meet, visit each other, etc. No way: this just prolongs the pain.

 

I know she loves me, and if she is mature enough to figure out that she will have a hell of a life after divorce, kids will suffer, and so on, she would get her act together. However, love has nothing to do with it at this point.

I also suspect some form of MLC, although a bit early for her age.

On top of everything, she got emotionally involved with an exchange student (8 years younger) that stayed with her parents and they were in the same house. I am sure this flipped our relation, but of course we had our problems already. I say emotional infidelity is not acceptable; if there is a problem, we should discuss it, for the same reason if sex is not good, I am not going to get it outside.

 

Filing for divorce is essentially the last, last resort, and it seems I am going towards doing this.

 

My fear of losing this marriage, of not being part of my kids life on a daily basis, really works against me when I try to save things. The only time when I get some ground is when I show I don't care, although I care.

 

I can easily get away for the weekend. This will give her relaxed time, as she claims that me around puts a lot of pressure on her. But then she blames me that I am just thinking about myself and leaving them alone. So, not good with me, but not good without me.

 

Here is another example of how bizarre things are: she told me several times that she is young, still has a chance to meet somebody that will treat her well, and have a third child, but she would never have a third child with me. I guess a man that has some self respect should get out of this nonsense???

 

Finally, myself I have been thinking over the years that for various reasons this is not a good relation for me and I have thought about ending it myself, but now I realize how much all means to me, and I am not into ending it.

 

 

Well, too many confusions... I keep reading LS a lot, and I find it very helpful

when going though this pain.

[jmargel]

I would say at this point your main objective here is to find resolution. As long as you don't have that you are left in this limbo where you cannot move on with your life, either with her or without her.

 

The things she is saying are just not words. If it were just her words, then I would consider it verbal abuse. When she says things like she doesn't want a third child with you then it's pretty obvious that even if she did not mean it, would you still want to be with someone who could say that to you?

 

She treats strangers on the street better than you. What you can't do though is let it affect your own self-worth. Though it is hard when you have invested so much into someone for such a long time. You know this, since you've been through it before.

 

Her leaving is one thing, however her taking your children 2000 miles away is something totally different. She has NO right to do that. However that is not a reason to keep her in the same house with you. Open that cage door as wide as you can, just make sure the kids stay in the area.

 

As long as you continue to do the same thing over and over, you will continue to get the same results from her. It's time to change things, time to start moving in a different direction. Don't be there to be abused. You make the decisions now, show some confidence. Pull that safety net away from her, let her know that she is now on her own.

 

This is a common scenario and from the many people that I have given advice to the only thing that works is tough love. Get the book 'Love must be tough', it's a great book. Look at her like you would your teenage daughter. If your daughter was disrespecting you like this, would you tolerate it? I doubt it. Show her that you are in charge of your future, not her.

[redblack66]

You've got a lot of really good opinions here.

 

To be honest? Aside from ilmw, about the only success I've seen in a situation like yours is envoking the "180's" combined with in-difference combine with "tough-love"

 

[...]

TBH (Too be honest) I'd dump her so quick it would make her head swim.

[...]

When someone tells you they want out of a relationship? All that means is you've got to go out and find yourself someone else? Someone who appreciates you for ~ you! Someone new, fresh, interesting, cooperative!

[...]

The person that's responsible for your happines? Is YOU! Not her! She's not in control of the rudder of your life! You are!

 

She wants out? So be it!

 

[...]

What you're asking us ~ me ~ here is if and when you should divorce.

 

When you no longer have regreets!

 

When you no longer have bitterness!

 

When you no longer have anger!

 

When you no longer have remorse!

 

When you no longer have issues!

 

When you no longer have sadness!

 

When you no longer have any emotions involved, and you can truly say:

 

"I no longer want you to be a part of my life! And I no longer want to be a part of your life!

 

Go in peace and with God! I truly wish you the best and happiness!

 

Very helpful posting and my sincere thanks again. I just ordered Love Must be Tough from Amazon.com and hoping to receive it in 4-5 days.

 

I am trying indifference, it is hard, but I see small signs of positive effect.

 

I am not convinced that divorce is the best logical solution. However, it is more about me than anybody else: my sleep, eating, work concentration, etc. are all in a miserable state. I am afraid I may get physically sick if I do not draw the line and say eventually: this is my life, I do not want to suffer anymore, and I have nothing to do with you, except caring for the children.

 

My previous wife wanted to get together about a year after we divorced, as the grass was not that greener. (I exercised 100% no contact.) I was far away in my life, emotionally and intellectually, and we did not get together.

I believe the same thing will happen if we split completely; eventually she will want back, and I may not be able to go back.

[redblack66]

I would say at this point your main objective here is to find resolution. As long as you don't have that you are left in this limbo where you cannot move on with your life, either with her or without her.

 

The things she is saying are just not words. If it were just her words, then I would consider it verbal abuse. When she says things like she doesn't want a third child with you then it's pretty obvious that even if she did not mean it, would you still want to be with someone who could say that to you?

 

She treats strangers on the street better than you. What you can't do though is let it affect your own self-worth. Though it is hard when you have invested so much into someone for such a long time. You know this, since you've been through it before.

 

Her leaving is one thing, however her taking your children 2000 miles away is something totally different. She has NO right to do that. However that is not a reason to keep her in the same house with you. Open that cage door as wide as you can, just make sure the kids stay in the area.

 

As long as you continue to do the same thing over and over, you will continue to get the same results from her. It's time to change things, time to start moving in a different direction. Don't be there to be abused. You make the decisions now, show some confidence. Pull that safety net away from her, let her know that she is now on her own.

 

This is a common scenario and from the many people that I have given advice to the only thing that works is tough love. Get the book 'Love must be tough', it's a great book. Look at her like you would your teenage daughter. If your daughter was disrespecting you like this, would you tolerate it? I doubt it. Show her that you are in charge of your future, not her.

 

Yes, I will be moving towards a resolution, whatever it is. I certainly desire to have a woman that is emotionally and physically close to me, and I can't wait very long for my wife to come around. She is intelligent enough to understand this. We have not had sex for 4.5 months, which is a very long period by my criteria. She can go for years like that, and I am damn sure.

 

She is all over the place: in the last two days she has been referring to me as "my husband", and at the same time was telling me what features my new wife should have. I told her in a joking voice "Just shut up".

 

I am not available to be abused and try to avoid her. I can take some abuse as I have pretty good self-confidence and I am amused inside when people are caught up in their pity behavior.

 

It hurts me very much seeing the whole marriage collapsing. The effort that I put into it has not achieved much. So, I am really trying 180 and indifference, as much as I can.

 

Tonight she wanted my approval for calling our real estate agent to appraise the house. I told her to do whatever she wants, as I have had enough of this type of conversations. Apparently, she wanted my involvement so I carry part of the responsibility, I guess for the current situation.

[Gunny376]

If the situation is affecting your work? Then you'd best re-pioritize your prioties quick, fast and in a hurry like.

 

Your priorties should be yourself ~ because without taking care of yourself your of no use to your children ~ just that simple. Of course your children should be at the top of the list ~ but they need a Daddy with a job ~ and so that goes to the top of the list ~ and goes hand in hand with be there for your children.

 

A really good book to read about what is and isn't important in life ~ is "Tuesday's With Morrie" by Mithc Albom.

 

Its not money, fame, nor fortune, ~ nor climbing up the food chain ~ its about your relationsihps with other people.

 

Success? True sucess? Is measured by how many people will attend your funeral because they truly will miss your company, advice, opinions. Not because of what you had, have acheived nor done.

 

A local business man recently died ~ and to read the local papers? The man was a saint ~ but in truth? He was one of the biggest SOB's I've ever meet and ever known.

 

A friend and co-worker has a brain tumor. The change in him pyschologically~mentally~ emotionally is 180 degrees from the old "Bill" that we've all known and loved.

 

"Bill more than just a nice guy ~ he's one of those unique individuals that you luck up and meet in life. Never down, never depressed, always smiling, always laughing. He's one of those guys that the only friend he doesn't have is the one he hasn't meet yet.

 

When "Bills" day comes? You can bet there will be a lot of people to mourn him. Not because he was rich, not because he was famous, not because he was born into the right family, but because he was "Bill"

 

I'm here to tell you! You absolutely cannot let your work performance slip. That's one ball that you've absolutely have got to stay on top of. Because if you think things are bad now? Lose your job! It can go to "Hell in a handbasket" quick, fast and in a hurry like.

 

That's one of the biggest things about divorce ~ the dommino effect. Its affects your confidence, your day-to-day, your work, your co-workers, your concentration. your relations and interactions with others.

 

At the very least? You need to set some bounderies with the wife ~ and let her know that you've got to concentrated and focus on holding it together ~ and keeping it together. That you cannot afford to allow her flakey, selfish, self-centered behavior affect and impact other areas of your life.

 

And unless you want to become an enstranged ~ long distance father that doesn't know your children? You'd best be fighing like a banshee to stay engaged in their lifes. And that's not just about the STBXW moving 2000 miles away ~ that's all about who you let in your life.

 

I knew it was over the day my last LTR GF said, "Well if you choose your children over me? Then that's something I'll just have to accept!"

 

The STBXW has power over you? Only because you give it to her ~ and she has no more power, nor control over you that YOU give her!

 

If it were me? She wouldn't be writing my agenda ~ she wouldn't be writing my life's story!

 

And while I'm on here? Where is it written that the wife automatically gets the children? Where is it written that the woman is the better parent? It seems to me you're laying down on this subject!

[Ladyjane14]

Great post, Guns.

I couldn't add a word.

 

 

(... and condolences on your friend. I hope the prognosis is better than what I gathered from your post. )

[jmargel]

Indifference is not tough love. Indifference is trying to show that you don't care, that's something she will see through.

 

Tough love is removing the safety net from underneath her. Tough love is making them think about what they are doing. That's the whole point in showing tough love.

 

It all comes down to whether she wants to work on this marriage or not. If she doesn't then by all means get this divorce finalized as fast as possible. It takes two to make the marriage work, however I still think there is some other part of the story we are not getting. There are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth.

 

When you talk to her, be respectful however if she starts acting like a teenager just tell her 'Until you can talk to me like an adult, leave me alone'. However when she does talk to you about what is bothering her the BEST thing you can do is just listen and say 'I understand'. What that does is strip alot of their defensiveness away and it will actually get them to open up a little more. This might be one of the ways to find resolution to this. There is a reason why she is feeling the way she is.

 

As for the house issue if she brings it up again, I would say something like 'If you want to get the house appraised, that is your decision. If you truly want this divorce and you don't love me then you are more than free to go. However, know that I will never take you back. It's either we goto Marriage Counseling and solve our communication problems or we go our seperate ways. A decision needs to be made, either way.'

 

Tough love is not using fear, hatred, yelling or screaming. Like I said before it's meant to make the other person think about their actions and the consequences they will be facing for what they are doing to you now. You also need to take this time to do some soul-searching in yourself and realize how you contributed to this. Don't blame this all on her, very rarely that is the case where one spouse was the only contributor to a failing marriage.

[redblack66]

Indifference is not tough love. Indifference is trying to show that you don't care, that's something she will see through.

 

Tough love is removing the safety net from underneath her. Tough love is making them think about what they are doing. That's the whole point in showing tough love.

 

It all comes down to whether she wants to work on this marriage or not. If she doesn't then by all means get this divorce finalized as fast as possible. It takes two to make the marriage work, however I still think there is some other part of the story we are not getting. There are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth.

 

When you talk to her, be respectful however if she starts acting like a teenager just tell her 'Until you can talk to me like an adult, leave me alone'. However when she does talk to you about what is bothering her the BEST thing you can do is just listen and say 'I understand'. What that does is strip alot of their defensiveness away and it will actually get them to open up a little more. This might be one of the ways to find resolution to this. There is a reason why she is feeling the way she is.

 

As for the house issue if she brings it up again, I would say something like 'If you want to get the house appraised, that is your decision. If you truly want this divorce and you don't love me then you are more than free to go. However, know that I will never take you back. It's either we goto Marriage Counseling and solve our communication problems or we go our seperate ways. A decision needs to be made, either way.'

 

Tough love is not using fear, hatred, yelling or screaming. Like I said before it's meant to make the other person think about their actions and the consequences they will be facing for what they are doing to you now. You also need to take this time to do some soul-searching in yourself and realize how you contributed to this. Don't blame this all on her, very rarely that is the case where one spouse was the only contributor to a failing marriage.

 

VERY helpful. This is a tricky part: if I am myself--loving and affectionate--she enjoys the attention, but then tells me that she is annoyed (and perhaps finds me needy and weak). If I just do my own thing, she is looking for me. I often feel I should be myself and let things evolve. For example, I feel leaving a nice note for her, but this can backfire.

Also, today I would like to buy her gym clothes (she needs such), but I am afraid she may accept them ironically, but this is what I want to do, and I will do it.

 

Another very tough part: she does not want to work on the marriage, but wants to stay married.

 

I have taken most of the blame and responsibility for the current situation and have clearly indicated to her that I have not been that loving in my actions in the past, sometimes insulting and inconsiderate, have not spent as much time as she would like with the kids, and so on. Also, I have not been a good listener.

I got the wake up call, and I needed it. I wish she was open about it and we tried to figure things out. She just made a decision: I am done and that's it.

 

In the last 2-3 months, my life has been like in a slow movie in my head, and I am pretty much aware of what I have not and should have done not to get to here.

 

At this stage, she will not grasp the consequences of a divorce. She cannot grasp that kids growing up far, far from a father is not right.

She cannot understand that a divorce will be a financial nightmare for all of us: I will be leaving on low income, she will be struggling with the kids on low income. Shared custody will be difficult as the little one is still breastfeeding. She loves me, I am sure about it, and she has told me that.

 

"I understand" is a major phrase in my vocabulary: it works. Another effective approach when there is misunderstanding is:

If you think that I am at fault, I am sorry

I did not mean it

How can I make it up to you

 

I have been reading like crazy and thinking all the time what in the world to do. Books have all these ideas and strategies that sound logical, but at the end of the day, I feel I should be doing what feels right inside myself.

[jmargel]

Don't leave her notes, don't buy her clothes. She knows you love her, doing those two things won't accomplish anything but more problems for you. It's just enforcing to her that you are still the whipping boy and that she still has you around her finger.

 

The only way this marriage is going to work is if the communication gets better between you two, to deal with the root issue of it all. However I don't see that happening unless you two get some marriage counseling. Honestly at this point, if I were you I would setup a session with a counselor for yourself and go for a few weeks. Only then after the counselor recommends it, you invite her. If she goes, great, if not then you truly know that by her actions that she does not want to be in this marriage.

 

You are looking for reasons on why she should stay, fiancial and children are not reasons why two people should stay in a marriage. Children are much better coming from a broken home then living in one. All they will do is sense the stress, tension and unlove between their parents and they will learn to be this way when they grow up.

 

I hope you get that book soon so you can read it. Read it and follow it. You must always maintain your dignity and confidence regardless of what this marriage throws your way, and how appeasement may force a relationship apart because lack of self-respect causes a lack of respect for you among others.

 

Basically you teach others how to treat you. It's time for things to change.

[redblack66]

Don't leave her notes, don't buy her clothes. She knows you love her, doing those two things won't accomplish anything but more problems for you. It's just enforcing to her that you are still the whipping boy and that she still has you around her finger.

 

The only way this marriage is going to work is if the communication gets better between you two, to deal with the root issue of it all. However I don't see that happening unless you two get some marriage counseling. Honestly at this point, if I were you I would setup a session with a counselor for yourself and go for a few weeks. Only then after the counselor recommends it, you invite her. If she goes, great, if not then you truly know that by her actions that she does not want to be in this marriage.

 

You are looking for reasons on why she should stay, fiancial and children are not reasons why two people should stay in a marriage. Children are much better coming from a broken home then living in one. All they will do is sense the stress, tension and unlove between their parents and they will learn to be this way when they grow up.

 

I hope you get that book soon so you can read it. Read it and follow it. You must always maintain your dignity and confidence regardless of what this marriage throws your way, and how appeasement may force a relationship apart because lack of self-respect causes a lack of respect for you among others.

 

Basically you teach others how to treat you. It's time for things to change.

 

CORRECT, no notes, no gifts at this stage. We are going to marriage counseling next week. We had a session together, then each of us had an individual session, and now together. The problem is that she has the perception that after this session, we should know where we are going. We need a few, if not many, more. There is a lot of mutual damage to be repaired.

Also, we are supposed to have on the 16th of Nov a four way conference with our lawyers to decide what to do. It is so unrealistic to expect a resolution, unless she is 100% sure that she wants out, and even if she is sure, I would credit her desire to her anger and confusion.

 

About staying in the marriage: currently we have a pretty good relation (except her anger and frequent lecturing on small stuff, but important to her) and we work more as a team than before. Even she told me that our relation is much better. I doubt it if this we'll bring the passion in her towards me, but it may.

Our communication always gets trapped in the past,

and always I am the guilty one, and I just say how sorry I am. Nothing else I can do. I think she is trying to justify her negative feelings and her decisions by ruminating on the past and putting it into my face.

 

Yes, I ordered Love Must Be Tough, and should get it within a week. Thanks again.

[jmargel]

You won't find answers with counseling in a few sessions and by going to MC and also starting the divorce process, that doesn't make sense. It sounds like she's in a rush to do this and only doing MC 'just to say she's done it'.

 

Quit saying your freakin' sorry already, you have no idea the damage that does. It just empowers her and only continues to make her believe she is right in the things she has done. Stand up for yourself, show confidence. Confidence is allowing her to go.

 

Stop making excuses on why she wants out. Doesn't matter if she is confused and angry that is no excuse for her behavior towards you. Honestly at the next MC session you have with her, I would bring up the meeting that if she wants to continue the meeting with the lawyers on the 14th then there is no reason to continue MC and that you are done. This is the only thing that might make her start thinking. That it is an either/or deal.

 

Nothing else I can do. I think she is trying to justify her negative feelings and her decisions by ruminating on the past and putting it into my face.

 

There is plenty you can do, it's just you are afraid to do it. You are afraid to step upto the 'big bad monster' that lays inside her. She feeds off this fear and continues to use it against you. When she starts with her whining and her 'negative feelings' that's when you call her on it. The moment she shows you disrespect, tell her 'I will not tolerate this type of behavior anymore, talk to me when you can act like an adult' and then just walk away. Stop apologizing for things in the past and let her know this.

 

The whole situation in general doesn't look good to be honest. You really have to ask yourself, what are you getting out of this marriage? Yes, we know you love her but there needs to be more. Tell me what that is..

[redblack66]

You won't find answers with counseling in a few sessions and by going to MC and also starting the divorce process, that doesn't make sense. It sounds like she's in a rush to do this and only doing MC 'just to say she's done it'.

 

 

She is doing marriage counseling to be able to deal with separation issues and how to deal with me. This is her response to me.

She told me that reconciliation is out of question.

 

Quit saying your freakin' sorry already, you have no idea the damage that does. It just empowers her and only continues to make her believe she is right in the things she has done. Stand up for yourself, show confidence. Confidence is allowing her to go.

Yes, I have apologized more than I should have.

 

Stop making excuses on why she wants out. Doesn't matter if she is confused and angry that is no excuse for her behavior towards you. Honestly at the next MC session you have with her, I would bring up the meeting that if she wants to continue the meeting with the lawyers on the 14th then there is no reason to continue MC and that you are done. This is the only thing that might make her start thinking. That it is an either/or deal.

Yes, this is more or less what I will do. I will review all the posts in this thread to help me decide what to talk about. I am also quite confused in this turmoil.

 

There is plenty you can do, it's just you are afraid to do it. You are afraid to step upto the 'big bad monster' that lays inside her. She feeds off this fear and continues to use it against you. When she starts with her whining and her 'negative feelings' that's when you call her on it. The moment she shows you disrespect, tell her 'I will not tolerate this type of behavior anymore, talk to me when you can act like an adult' and then just walk away. Stop apologizing for things in the past and let her know this.

I use to tell her when she crossed boundaries of respect exactly what you are telling me and then walking away. I guess I should do it now again.

 

The whole situation in general doesn't look good to be honest. You really have to ask yourself, what are you getting out of this marriage? Yes, we know you love her but there needs to be more. Tell me what that is..

No, it does not look good at all. She is an exceptional person: very bright, with a great sense of humor, quite brave in many ways, very good looking, very giving, loving, and a very good mother. I just can't imagine meeting a woman of this caliber in life.

However, I have not been that happy all the time in the marriage, perhaps my fault too, perhaps this is how things are meant to be.

So, I am not 100% sure that the best is to stay together, but I am sure that I wish to be in the marriage at this stage.

 

One of my concerns is, if things work out at the end and we stay together, is if she will ever decide to work full time and pursue some type of career. Some people may say minor problem, but I am supporting five people (including myself) and it has been just difficult, and she never got this point.

[redblack66]

I come home, my wife is tired. I told her before that if I move out,

I am taking two suitcases and don't care about the rest. So she tells me I am moving in with somebody else. I tell her that there is nobody.

 

Then we have to talk about us again tonight. I am planning to ask her

1. Do you want to be married with me? If the answer is NO, I do not want to discuss anything further.

If the answer is YES,

2. I will ask her if she wants to work on the marriage with me.

 

I am just wondering if these are questions for a marriage counseling session. I am perhaps reading too much into her, but I feel that the moment she has doubts about my fidelity, she wants out. I have been really faithful.

Also, when she is tired and in a low mood, she gets into the separation mode.

Sure, I can't deal with all this forever, as my breaking point is not far.

[redblack66]

I told my wife that I am making plans for the future and need

to have some resolution, because I have to know if she will be included in these plans.

 

I asked my wife: do you want to be married to me? She says "We are separated."

 

I asked her: do you want to work on the marriage with me? She says

"I will work on my relationship with you as a separated spouse."

 

I said we are done, its finished, and I am going to watch TV. That's it.

 

What else can I do? Nothing as far as I can see.

She tells me that there is nobody in her life and she is not planning on dating. I said "I don't care."

[Chrome Barracuda]

I told my wife that I am making plans for the future and need

to have some resolution, because I have to know if she will be included in these plans.

 

I asked my wife: do you want to be married to me? She says "We are separated."

 

I asked her: do you want to work on the marriage with me? She says

"I will work on my relationship with you as a separated spouse."

 

I said we are done, its finished, and I am going to watch TV. That's it.

 

What else can I do? Nothing as far as I can see.

She tells me that there is nobody in her life and she is not planning on dating. I said "I don't care."

 

You defintely need a solid solution and being in limbo is the worse thing to be.

Especially if your seperated.

 

She doesnt know if she can rekindle her feelings for you, that's why she's avoiding your questions but she needs to be honest like you are. I understand your tired of her BS and that's great.

 

Just do the right thing for you, forget her. She wants her life, then she has to do it for herself from now on. It's not good being in limbo.

[redblack66]

[...]

Just do the right thing for you, forget her. She wants her life, then she has to do it for herself from now on. It's not good being in limbo.

 

As much I love her, I just can take it anymore. I think she is in shock after my answer that we are done. She keeps saying I am having somebody else, but I don't care anymore.