separated in the same house; would wife come around

[redblack66]

Now you know, you cannot trust anything she tells you now. When and if it does come to divorce, make sure you protect yourself, your assets and your kids.

 

It seems that she won't be coming around (meaing willing to work on the marriage) anytime soon if ever. If she does, it might be months or years from now. It's up to you if you are willing to wait and willing to forgive.

 

She will not come around, unless something very unusual happens.

I am not willing to wait for her to come around. I have to protect myself and the kids.

 

A friend of mine suggested that somehow I may ask a counselor to request a psychological assessment of her, as she has been so irrational.

[bestadvisor]

She will not come around, unless something very unusual happens.

I am not willing to wait for her to come around. I have to protect myself and the kids.

 

A friend of mine suggested that somehow I may ask a counselor to request a psychological assessment of her, as she has been so irrational.

 

Do you think she is acting crazy? I am sure the answer is "yes." Do you really think she is really insance in a legal and medical sense? Probably not. It's very common for a spouse who's involved in an affair to act irrationally. Unless there are other signs than her making irrational decisions, she's probably not crazy in a legal or medical sense.

[redblack66]

Do you think she is acting crazy? I am sure the answer is "yes." Do you really think she is really insance in a legal and medical sense? Probably not. It's very common for a spouse who's involved in an affair to act irrationally. Unless there are other signs than her making irrational decisions, she's probably not crazy in a legal or medical sense.

 

Again, you are so right. I am suspecting depression and hormonal imbalance, but I am not a doctor, just an intuition.

She writes a lot of the sort that her biggest love in her life is for her horse and dog and a lot of things of this sort, that if a "normal" person reads them may wonder what in the world is in this persons head.

[bestadvisor]

Again, you are so right. I am suspecting depression and hormonal imbalance, but I am not a doctor, just an intuition.

She writes a lot of the sort that her biggest love in her life is for her horse and dog and a lot of things of this sort, that if a "normal" person reads them may wonder what in the world is in this persons head.

 

If you believe there is something going on in her head that's not right (other than the fact that she slept with another man), a psychological assessment might be appropriate.

[redblack66]

 

It seems that she won't be coming around (meaing willing to work on the marriage) anytime soon if ever. If she does, it might be months or years from now. It's up to you if you are willing to wait and willing to forgive.

 

If she says what I did is terribly wrong, I understand the consequences, I hurt you so badly, I would like to work on our future etc. then I am OK. This is not going to happen in the next months.

 

 

Don't rush to filie for divorce yet, unless it's absolutely necessary. You might be surprise by my advise, but the fact is you're very emotional now. When your'e emotional like this, it's not a good time to make such major decision. It's been going on for months, what's a few more days or weeks. The upcoming days or weeks will help you make more rational decision.

Right. I am irrational, but I am sure that she has made the decision that it is over and there is no coming back. She may regret this later on, but she is the type of person that if she moves on, that's it.

Saying that, realizing that kids, which she loves so much, are suffering without a father she may think twice. At the moment is all about her.

 

I am her second man, so she does not have the sparks that many of us have had trhough their lives. I am also wondering if subconciously

she is getting to missed experiences.

 

Complicated.

[redblack66]

There is no urgent need to file for divorce. I feel there is no hope, so what is the point of delaying it. I also feel that I am emotional.

 

Question: is it possible that the real danger of divorce may force somebody to think quick about the consequence, e.g. the safe blanket is gone? My feeling is that in my case it does not matter.

[redblack66]

I asked my wife this morning to start working on details of a complete separation so we minimize lawyers fees in the whole thing.

Her face showed surprise but she said OK. I am just reading too much into it. She looks uneasy around me and perhaps seeing that the safety blanket is going to be gone. Time for awakening.

 

I told her I spoke to her father; her question was what I said. I said 'the truth about our state' and she will learn more from him. I just don't feel talking to her unless it is necessary to manage affairs.

[GeminiWoman]

I'm sorry R/B. That really sucks. It has appeared all along that she is playing you. You need to do whatever it takes to protect yourself, emotionally and financially. And your kids (who, btw, probably don't need to know about their mother's infidelity, IMHO).

 

Proceed with the separation - I mean really physically separate. Tell her she needs to figure out how she is going to support herself. She needs to face the consequences of her actions. It sounds like she wants someone to take care of her - which is why she wanted to move back home with her parents. And why she has been sending you mixed messages. She doesn't want to be married to you but she doesn't want to deal with the real world issues of divorce, either - like getting a job, moving, child care, etc. It's time for her to deal with real life.

 

You said if she apologizes sincerely to you, you would take her back. Be careful. Many people have done so and ending up getting burned a second time. Forgiving someone and taking them back after an affair is admirable but if the marriage hasn't had a complete overhaul, you will be facing the same thing again down the road. Affairs are usually a symptom of a bad marriage, not the cause. Keep seeing your therapist. He can walk you through this mess.

 

P.S. You will feel irrational for a while. It's all part of the process. Good luck.

[redblack66]

I'm sorry R/B. That really sucks. It has appeared all along that she is playing you. You need to do whatever it takes to protect yourself, emotionally and financially. And your kids (who, btw, probably don't need to know about their mother's infidelity, IMHO).

 

When they grow up, I should tell them, I believe. Reading Plan A and Plan B, can anybody suggest where I would be. Negotiating her

dropping the affair may make me look weak. I don't thing she is ready for this. I will go away next week; hope she has time to think things over.

 

Proceed with the separation - I mean really physically separate. Tell her she needs to figure out how she is going to support herself.

She is counting on spousal and child support. We will see.

 

She needs to face the consequences of her actions. It sounds like she wants someone to take care of her - which is why she wanted to move back home with her parents. And why she has been sending you mixed messages. She doesn't want to be married to you but she doesn't want to deal with the real world issues of divorce, either - like getting a job, moving, child care, etc. It's time for her to deal with real life.

 

Exactly correct. She has not taken responsibility for herself. Every time I make a suggestions she does something more than just staying at home with kids, she explains that it is best for the kids. True, but not quite. She needs somebody to take care of her, and I suspect all her life.

 

You said if she apologizes sincerely to you, you would take her back. Be careful. Many people have done so and ending up getting burned a second time. Forgiving someone and taking them back after an affair is admirable but if the marriage hasn't had a complete overhaul, you will be facing the same thing again down the road. Affairs are usually a symptom of a bad marriage, not the cause. Keep seeing your therapist. He can walk you through this mess.

I agree and understand this.

 

P.S. You will feel irrational for a while. It's all part of the process. Good luck.

 

 

Yes. Thanks for the support.

[redblack66]

I'm sorry R/B. That really sucks. It has appeared all along that she is playing you.

 

Yes, she has been playing me, and I interpreted it as that she interested in seeing what my intentions are and interpreted it is a form of feelings from her. So stupid on my side.

 

I see her as a person without integrity and honesty, or at least I am thinking this way to make myself feeling better.

[redblack66]

Kick her damn ass out of the house! Don't goto France, and make sure the kids stay with you. She continues to CHEAT! That is why she doesn't want to work on the marriage. Funny how right after MC she goes runing to him. He will tell her eveyrthing she wants to hear. So let her self-destruct.

 

Yes, I will let her self-destruct. I have no control over her.

 

Not until she realizes what she is doing is wrong will things start to change. However as long as this OM is in the picture good chance that things will stay the same between you and her.

 

It will take time for her to realize. She tries to find all the blame in me, but not so easy. I do not know how to get him out of the picture,

and I should not be trying as far as I can see.

 

Contact your attorney and tell her things are now over. You refuse to be treated like this any longer. Pull that damn safety net away already!

 

I have contacted my lawyer and told her (my lawyer) that things are over. The safety net will disappear pretty soon, and she will face the real life. So far, it has been the sad princess that has been knitting socks and sweaters all the time. Uh, funny?

[redblack66]

Friends, I have been posting trying to survive... and make the right moves.

 

I just had an individual counseling over the phone. The MC suggested that I should ask her if she is willing to drop her relation with the OM for the sake of saving the marriage. Otherwise, there is no hope.

She signs her e-mails etc. to him as "Love you".

Is it a good idea to ask the above question? I expect the answer "We are separated." Really, I cannot get a straight answer on anything, and it has been like that for 4 months.

[Ladyjane14]

Reading Plan A and Plan B, can anybody suggest where I would be. Negotiating her dropping the affair may make me look weak. I don't thing she is ready for this.

 

In your first post, you said that you were "legally separated", and if memory serves, I believe you mentioned a court order regarding shared space in the house.

 

If you're indeed legally separated... then she's free to do as she pleases, and you were invading her privacy when you read her diary. I'm unclear as to 'why' the two of you elected this in-house separation to begin with, or what the pre-affair dynamics might have been which caused emotional distancing, but at this point.. it is what it is.

 

From here, it looks like your "Plan A" has been DOA. She's interpretted your extra help around the house as an attempt to facilitate reconciliation rather than a genuine interest in meeting her needs. And she's probably mistaken about that... but perception is the truth in her mind. My point is that your "Plan A" failure might not be about how you did it, but rather about how she received it. If what she perceives is "motives and agenda" instead of a perfectly acceptable and even preferable potential mate... then that's what she reacts to.

 

You're facing the "fogged out", loopy mindset of a person who's caught up in Infatuation, so she's gonna see what she WANTS to see. Usually, that amounts to whatever FEEDS the affair.

 

So... if you're going to attempt Harley's plan, you need to do a really stellar "Plan A" before going to "Plan B". Otherwise, she won't see the contrast between the two. "Plan A" doesn't mean you lay down like a rug and allow her to walk all over you. For example, you would certainly use whatever legal means you need to in order to protect your rights. For the most part though, what you do in "Plan A".. is to present yourself as an attractive enough package that maybe you lure her away from her affair partner.

 

Now, you can't do that when you're legally separated and she perceives you to be stalking her. In her mind, she has a right to come and go as she pleases and see whoever she wants. In her mind, you are separated and only married on paper.

 

I'll be honest with you... personally, I'd have never gone for it. If my mate wants to go, he better not let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

If mine felt the need to date other people, he can do it full-time. And if he's too "confused" to make a decision on whether he's where he wants to be, I'll make it FOR him.

 

Bear in mind.... you have NOT given up your right to go immediately to "Plan D"... divorce. So your WW isn't the only one who has choices here. I think it's important for a guy (or gal) in this kind of situation to really get in touch with their own feelings....

Will her current behavior result in too much water under the bridge for you to forgive?

Can you really share space with her while she lives a single lifestyle and not come to resent her for it?

Do you have enough love in your "Love Bank" to allow her to continue taking withdrawals without making deposits?

 

You've said so yourself... that patience isn't your thing. "Plan A" is a big undertaking, one that has no guaranteed result, and it's main component is patience. Most often, when a woman says she's done... she's DONE.

But if you're determined to try Harley's plan, I think "Plan A" is where you need to be. (If you haven't read Surviving an Affair, you'll want to do that, btw. You'll get more detailed information.)

[redblack66]

In your first post, you said that you were "legally separated", and if memory serves, I believe you mentioned a court order regarding shared space in the house.

 

If you're indeed legally separated... then she's free to do as she pleases, and you were invading her privacy when you read her diary. I'm unclear as to 'why' the two of you elected this in-house separation to begin with, or what the pre-affair dynamics might have been which caused emotional distancing, but at this point.. it is what it is.

 

I just couldn't get the truth out of her for months. We are in a limbo up to the point that our lawyers don't know what to do with us.

 

From here, it looks like your "Plan A" has been DOA. She's interpretted your extra help around the house as an attempt to facilitate reconciliation rather than a genuine interest in meeting her needs. And she's probably mistaken about that... but perception is the truth in her mind. My point is that your "Plan A" failure might not be about how you did it, but rather about how she received it. If what she perceives is "motives and agenda" instead of a perfectly acceptable and even preferable potential mate... then that's what she reacts to.

 

Correct! Her big, big need is to go and live on the farm with her parents, riding horses and walking by the river.

 

You're facing the "fogged out", loopy mindset of a person who's caught up in Infatuation, so she's gonna see what she WANTS to see. Usually, that amounts to whatever FEEDS the affair.

 

Yes, she sees what she wants to see. She sees affairs in my life all over the place.

 

So... if you're going to attempt Harley's plan, you need to do a really stellar "Plan A" before going to "Plan B". Otherwise, she won't see the contrast between the two. "Plan A" doesn't mean you lay down like a rug and allow her to walk all over you. For example, you would certainly use whatever legal means you need to in order to protect your rights. For the most part though, what you do in "Plan A".. is to present yourself as an attractive enough package that maybe you lure her away from her affair partner.

 

I will study Plan A carefully.

 

Now, you can't do that when you're legally separated and she perceives you to be stalking her. In her mind, she has a right to come and go as she pleases and see whoever she wants. In her mind, you are separated and only married on paper.

 

Yes. However, she is all over me what I am doing with my life outside the house.

 

I'll be honest with you... personally, I'd have never gone for it. If my mate wants to go, he better not let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

If mine felt the need to date other people, he can do it full-time. And if he's too "confused" to make a decision on whether he's where he wants to be, I'll make it FOR him.

 

It looks I will be making a decision.

 

Bear in mind.... you have NOT given up your right to go immediately to "Plan D"... divorce. So your WW isn't the only one who has choices here. I think it's important for a guy (or gal) in this kind of situation to really get in touch with their own feelings....

Will her current behavior result in too much water under the bridge for you to forgive?

Can you really share space with her while she lives a single lifestyle and not come to resent her for it?

 

If we are physically separated, my contact with her will be close to zero. It is my personality.

 

Do you have enough love in your "Love Bank" to allow her to continue taking withdrawals without making deposits?

 

I don't know what I have there.

 

You've said so yourself... that patience isn't your thing. "Plan A" is a big undertaking, one that has no guaranteed result, and it's main component is patience. Most often, when a woman says she's done... she's DONE.

I guess I should accept the reality. I have been really reading a lot.

Now I am on Love Must be Tough.

[Ladyjane14]

I don't think you can have it both ways here, RB. "Plan A" and "Plan D" are incompatible. Sorry for any confusion, but in my last post I was giving you two separate ideas.

I'm just trying to give you things to think about, not tell you what to do. You need to decide that for yourself.

 

I will tell you this though, whatever you finally decide... give it 100% of your effort. Anything you go at half-assed is bound to come out "half-assed". There's no quick fix no matter which path you choose.

[redblack66]

 

I told you before to use tough love, USE IT NOW. You keep tolerating her bull**** and she will continue to believe she is the victim. Not until she realizes what she is doing is wrong will things start to change. However as long as this OM is in the picture good chance that things will stay the same between you and her.

 

I am reading Love Must Be Tough, amazing book. I have been nowhere in the last 3-4 monts.

 

As far as I understand, Plan A from marriage builders says to contact the OM and tell him to stay out, but I am not sure if this is right. Actually, I do not see a point of doing this.

I will see first if her father will have any effect on her to drop this relation. I expect her to be angry like hell after she learns that I have explained it very well.

[GeminiWoman]

As far as I understand, Plan A from marriage builders says to contact the OM and tell him to stay out, but I am not sure if this is right. Actually, I do not see a point of doing this.

I will see first if her father will have any effect on her to drop this relation. I expect her to be angry like hell after she learns that I have explained it very well.

 

No offense, RB but do you really want your wife to stay with you because you told the OM to take a hike or because you told her father about her behavior? That is not the stuff that good marriages are made of. She is not a child. She needs to want to end the other relationship and work on your marriage of her own volition. Even then, the odds of making it work are not great.

 

Ask her, once, if she is willing to give up the OM and work on the marriage. When she says, 'we're separated' then you have your answer. She make be trying to dodge the bullet of divorce by playing these word games with you but she can only do so as long as you let her get away with it.

 

My STBXH use to threaten to leave every time he got mad at me. I put up with it for a while but then I realized 2 things. 1) I would NEVER threaten to leave someone. When I say I'm leaving, that's it, it's over and 2) his ability to use leaving me as a threat meant he was not committed to the marriage, period.

 

When I finally said 'enough, it's over' he started claiming he never meant any of it. That is a weak person's way of not taking responsibility for their words and actions. They try to twist your words, they won't give you a straight answer, they play mind games. I finally decided that I could not be married to someone who didn't say what they mean and mean what they say. There can no trust in a relationship when someone is playing games with you. It's obviously that this is what your wife is doing. She's not committed to your marriage but she is too afraid to walk away at the moment so she is playing you big time. Eventually, you are going to need to decide whether YOU can be married to someone who is capable of doing this type of thing. Sorry, just a little tough love here.

[bestadvisor]

Redblack, how long ago was it when she spent those months at her father's house?

 

How was your marriage before she spent those time at her dad's house? Why is a married woman staying months away from her husband?

[redblack66]

Redblack, how long ago was it when she spent those months at her father's house?

 

July and August this year.

 

How was your marriage before she spent those time at her dad's house? Why is a married woman staying months away from her husband?

Marriage was not fantastic, but not bad. I was in Europe and then at work. She does not work, so she decides to spent her vacations there.

[bestadvisor]

How come her dad hasn't have the talk with her yet? If he did, what's her reaction? Is there anyone else whom she respect and close too? Expose to those people as well.

 

I really want to tell you to work on the marriage, and wanted to ask you if you can ever forgive her, etc. But, that's just moot point now because she doesn't want it.

 

Here is what's possibly going to happen: If the situation doesn't change, there is probably going to be a divorce. A year from now, whether she hook up with him again or not, she will either realize that he's not what she dreamed to be or since she doesn't see him anymore, he finds someone else and ignores her. A year from now, she might want to come back. Can you wait that long, will you forgive her?

[redblack66]

No offense, RB but do you really want your wife to stay with you because you told the OM to take a hike or because you told her father about her behavior? That is not the stuff that good marriages are made of. She is not a child. She needs to want to end the other relationship and work on your marriage of her own volition. Even then, the odds of making it work are not great.

 

All the odds are gone at this stage.

 

Ask her, once, if she is willing to give up the OM and work on the marriage. When she says, 'we're separated' then you have your answer. She make be trying to dodge the bullet of divorce by playing these word games with you but she can only do so as long as you let her get away with it.

 

Well, we will be working on separation agreement.

 

My STBXH use to threaten to leave every time he got mad at me. I put up with it for a while but then I realized 2 things. 1) I would NEVER threaten to leave someone. When I say I'm leaving, that's it, it's over and 2) his ability to use leaving me as a threat meant he was not committed to the marriage, period.

 

Wife is done, as far as I can tell.

 

When I finally said 'enough, it's over' he started claiming he never meant any of it. That is a weak person's way of not taking responsibility for their words and actions. They try to twist your words, they won't give you a straight answer, they play mind games. I finally decided that I could not be married to someone who didn't say what they mean and mean what they say. There can no trust in a relationship when someone is playing games with you. It's obviously that this is what your wife is doing. She's not committed to your marriage but she is too afraid to walk away at the moment so she is playing you big time. Eventually, you are going to need to decide whether YOU can be married to someone who is capable of doing this type of thing. Sorry, just a little tough love here.

 

 

She is never clear about this. However, there is a pain treshold beyond which is difficult to live.

[redblack66]

How come her dad hasn't have the talk with her yet? If he did, what's her reaction? Is there anyone else whom she respect and close too? Expose to those people as well.

 

My wife has explained to her mother that all this is just her writing at nothing else. So in a way she is presenting me as the deceitful husband. Well, I made a copy of the whole thing.

If it was just writing, then she really has a (mental?) problem. They talk and e-mail everyday.

 

I really want to tell you to work on the marriage, and wanted to ask you if you can ever forgive her, etc. But, that's just moot point now because she doesn't want it.

I am not that sure I can forgive this easily. I may never forgive. What worries is me is that my wife is quite irrational in her thoughts and thinking, and I may be stuck with this for years. I even suspect MLC. Tough call.

 

Here is what's possibly going to happen: If the situation doesn't change, there is probably going to be a divorce. A year from now, whether she hook up with him again or not, she will either realize that he's not what she dreamed to be or since she doesn't see him anymore, he finds someone else and ignores her. A year from now, she might want to come back. Can you wait that long, will you forgive her?

I am sure about this happening. My first wife wanted to come back

after a year, and our separation was terrible.

Who knows, if I am really happy after a year with somebody, I don't know. But I cannot count on waiting.

[bestadvisor]

Tell her parents that they are still in contact. Do you think her parents really believe that those are just imaginations? Do her parents know that you're are seperated?

 

Does you W and OM talk through the phone? Can you get copies of their email contents? What's MLC?

[redblack66]

Tell her parents that they are still in contact.

I will.

 

Do you think her parents really believe that those are just imaginations?

They may, but who knows.

 

Do her parents know that you're are seperated?

Yes.

 

Does you W and OM talk through the phone? Can you get copies of their email contents? What's MLC?

They do, but she calls from outside.

She does not use the computer at home because she thinks I am capturing e-mail. She goes to the library. MLC: midlife crisis, I believe.

[Gunny376]

I was you seventeen years ago.

 

I'd would so dump her!