separated in the same house; would wife come around

[redblack66]

I was you seventeen years ago.

 

I'd would so dump her!

 

Emotionally, I am trying to get there. As much as I want things to work out for the best of this family, things have gone too far. Wife feels so strong with the OM, has lost respect for me, she has been so deceitful and dishonest about her actions, that I feel I must move on without her.

There is a long path for her to go before I can accept her, if this will be ever possible for me, whether is selfish or not.

[redblack66]

I asked my wife today "Would you consider dropping the relation with the other man for the sake of saving this marriage."

I got all kinds of nonsense answers after I asked several times "Would you consider..." I don't even remember them; something of the sort it is not our relation, or our relation is broken.

 

Then I said I am proceeding with the divorce papers and hope she will not contest it. She asked me what grounds I have for divorce. It is obvious:

- left me once

- relation with OM

- does not want to work on this marriage

 

She seems quite down today and needed time on her own.

I am trying to be happy with myself. Since the end of July, I have been in an emotional wreck, and I am quite worried not to get sick myself.

[GeminiWoman]

I don't know what state you live in but technically, in most states, you don't need grounds and the spouse cannot contest it. It's all about 'no fault' these days.

 

I know you are hurting, R/B, but I believe you did the right thing. Either she is going to wake up and realize that this isn't what she wants or she's not. But it certainly isn't fair to you for her to continue to play this silly 'we're separated, so I can do anything I want' game. My stbx and I have been living apart for 4 months and I don't feel I have a right (nor the emotional capacity at the moment) to start dating. I don't know if I will wait until the Divorce is final (which will be another year because of state laws) but out of respect for my stbx and our longterm marriage I will wait at least a little while longer.

 

The court may have issued a separation order but, truly, by virtual of the fact that you are still living in the same house, you are not separated. It is a totally different ballgame when you are physically living apart. I suspect your wife may see things differently once you are not living together. Hugs.

[redblack66]

I don't know what state you live in but technically, in most states, you don't need grounds and the spouse cannot contest it.

 

I live in Canada, but things are not that different here.

 

I know you are hurting, R/B, but I believe you did the right thing. Either she is going to wake up and realize that this isn't what she wants or she's not.

I am hurting like never before in my life. At the same time friends are amazed how well I am handling myself; they say they would not be able to handle such a situation.

 

I feel that nothing can wake her up. Going 100% to divorce may wake her up, but who knows. Today we went all out and I made it clear that these will be one of the few days left when we are out as a family.

The moment we are physically separated, I have nothing to do with her and will avoid contact, unless it is necessary because of the children. I think she is expecting to see me on a regular basis and go out.

 

But it certainly isn't fair to you for her to continue to play this silly 'we're separated, so I can do anything I want' game. My stbx and I have been living apart for 4 months and I don't feel I have a right (nor the emotional capacity at the moment) to start dating.

Not only that, but she is very interested in my life.

I have told her I will get involved with somebody else only after a divorce is final. I do not feel morally right to be with somebody else when the situation is uncertain.

 

I don't know if I will wait until the Divorce is final (which will be another year because of state laws) but out of respect for my stbx and our longterm marriage I will wait at least a little while longer.

 

The court may have issued a separation order but, truly, by virtual of the fact that you are still living in the same house, you are not separated. It is a totally different ballgame when you are physically living apart. I suspect your wife may see things differently once you are not living together. Hugs.

Her justification for her affair is that we are separated. Actually, things started emotionally before we were separated and escalated in the week after our official, in her mind, separation date.

 

I strongly believe she is in a total mental mess, but I can't help it there. More and more I am convinced that she is hit by a midlife crisis.

 

I told her this morning that she has lost her integrity: wife with two kids getting involved with an 8 year younger guy, who works for her father, stays in the same house, and apparently drinks too much.

So sick. I wonder if this is a sign of low self esteem and insecurity in her.

 

Thank you for your support.

[Gunny376]

Oh! There can be no doubt that she's got self-esteem and insecurtiy issues ~ that is the fertile ground upon which affairs are born ~ that is to say? Its not about you, its about her.

 

Affairs are very selfish endevors. Its all about "Me, me, me!"

 

That's the reason the cheating spouse always projects the failures of the relationship upon the BS (Betrayed Spouse)

 

I so remember being where you're currently out. But this was back before the mega-bookstores, and the internet and such sights as LS.

 

I felt like a deer caught out in the middle of the inter-state during the middle of the night with a semi bearingn down on me. I didn't know whether to s**** or go blind!

 

With rare exception? The only strageity that I've ever seen work in saving a marriage, (there are execptions ~ but both parties have to be willing to work at it ~ the one that comes to mind is Lady Jane's and her husband marriage as she describes it) is the tactic of:

 

"We had to destroy the city in order to save it!"

 

This is in reference to the Tet Offensive in 68. The Viet Cong had seized and taken control of the old Imperial capital of Vietnam. The place was lousy with VC, (Viet Cong).

 

The Marines in order to liberate and "save" the city damn near had to destroy it with artilliry fire, naval gunfire, and air-strikes.

 

IMHO? This is where your marriage is? In order to save your marriage? You have to destroy it. That is divorce.

 

Your marriage is destroyed already. What you and she had ~ it doesn't work. So you've got to re-define it. To acheive this? She's got to get her head out of la~la land.

 

I mean for real? The OM is off in Austrailia out scrogging some new hot chick.

 

I would dare say, she's the last thing on his mind! And the least of your worries. But she's thinking that she's the only thing on his mind. She's freaking off in la~la land!

 

I went through this crap seventeen years ago. The wife was 35, I was 33. She was going to leave me for a Lance Corporal ten years younger.

 

All she was to him? Puddin' until I can get back to the land of the Big PX! They had a hot to trot affair in Okinawa, Japan. But as soon as he got stateside? He couldn't get rid of her soon enough!

 

She was what we call in the Marines ~ "Duty-station-p****!" It lasts as long as it last or until I get my next set of PCS (Permantent Change of Station Orders) orders sending me to the other coast!

 

LJ eluded to why men can't see women for the people they are?!

 

Why can't you?

 

She's blackmailing you ~ emotionally!

[redblack66]

Oh! There can be no doubt that she's got self-esteem and insecurtiy issues ~ that is the fertile ground upon which affairs are born ~ that is to say? Its not about you, its about her.

 

Affairs are very selfish endevors. Its all about "Me, me, me!"

 

Exactly. Several people told me this, and I believe it myself.

 

That's the reason the cheating spouse always projects the failures of the relationship upon the BS (Betrayed Spouse)

Yes, she is trying to find all kinds of reasons: e.g. I have been going to clubs, so if I can do this, why she can't have a relation. BS.

 

She says that she is hurt if I go on a date or somebody phones me at home on my cell. So, she says all the time that we are separated, but (???) hurt if there are might be another person.

 

 

With rare exception? The only strageity that I've ever seen work in saving a marriage, (there are execptions ~ but both parties have to be willing to work at it ~ the one that comes to mind is Lady Jane's and her husband marriage as she describes it) is the tactic of:

 

"We had to destroy the city in order to save it!"

 

We are at this stage. In my home country we say:

 

Things have to go completely destroyed before they can improve.

 

IMHO? This is where your marriage is? In order to save your marriage? You have to destroy it. That is divorce.

 

Yes.

 

Your marriage is destroyed already. What you and she had ~ it doesn't work. So you've got to re-define it. To acheive this? She's got to get her head out of la~la land.

She will be out of this land at some point. I just feel that it may be too late when she is out.

 

I mean for real? The OM is off in Austrailia out scrogging some new hot chick.

 

I would dare say, she's the last thing on his mind! And the least of your worries. But she's thinking that she's the only thing on his mind. She's freaking off in la~la land!

 

I agree absolutely. I have quite a bit of life experience for my age (41), I would say, and the situation is in many ways clear to me.

Could be a midlife crap.

 

LJ eluded to why men can't see women for the people they are?!

 

Why can't you?

If not taking much time, can you point to LJ postings on this.

 

She's blackmailing you ~ emotionally!

 

 

She is blackmailing me big time. I wonder if her state of mind is such that she will not see the light for some time, or perhaps she has seen it and this is her light.

[bestadvisor]

I think few of the things (other than the physial affair itself) that bother you the most is the fact that she still denies the affair even when you have solid proof and the fact that she doesn't want to stop communication at all with him and work on the marriage.

 

Redblack, it seems that you've made your decision. So, when are you going to seperate from her physically? Who will stay in the house?

[redblack66]

I think few of the things (other than the physial affair itself) that bother you the most is the fact that she still denies the affair even when you have solid proof and the fact that she doesn't want to stop communication at all with him and work on the marriage.

True. It bothers me more that she was not open about it than having it. It is a second, worse level of dishonesty.

 

Redblack, it seems that you've made your decision. So, when are you going to seperate from her physically? Who will stay in the house?

 

Not clear yet. Either Dec 1 or January, unless something changes in her mind, but very unlikely. Today we had again our usual guilt conversation who has done what. How do I don't get into those???

It is so simple (just shut up) and so difficult not to get involved.

[bestadvisor]

Not clear yet. Either Dec 1 or January, unless something changes in her mind, but very unlikely. Today we had again our usual guilt conversation who has done what. How do I don't get into those???

It is so simple (just shut up) and so difficult not to get involved.

 

That's good. Keep communicating! Doesn't matter how hard it is; it's usually productive in the end. You'll find out more about her, you'll learn your mistakes from her point of view. Whether you'll end up staying in the marriage or not, you will learn and grow by communicating with her.

 

Who knows, something possitive might come out of communicating with her and may even bring the two of you closer. Remember, you share kids together, she will be a part of your life forever (at least through the children). Keep the communication open, but don't yell, stay as calm as you can.

[redblack66]

T

 

Who knows, something possitive might come out of communicating with her and may even bring the two of you closer. Remember, you share kids together, she will be a part of your life forever (at least through the children). Keep the communication open, but don't yell, stay as calm as you can.

 

 

My feeling is that the reason for her communication is to find faults in me and justify her behavior. Nothing else.

I just told her I will be sleeping in three nights on the French Riviera, and her immediate question was "sleeping with who"? Is there anything beyond curiosity and sarcasm in such questions?

[bestadvisor]

My feeling is that the reason for her communication is to find faults in me and justify her behavior. Nothing else.

I just told her I will be sleeping in three nights on the French Riviera, and her immediate question was "sleeping with who"? Is there anything beyond curiosity and sarcasm in such questions?

 

It seems that she want you to sleep with someone so she can shift the blame and justify her actions.

[redblack66]

It seems that she want you to sleep with someone so she can shift the blame and justify her actions.

 

Good point. I am not doing this until divorce is final, so she will have difficult time justifying this. I wonder if she will ever feel guilty about

what she has done and doing now. I feel such a time will come.

[redblack66]

It seems that she want you to sleep with someone so she can shift the blame and justify her actions.

 

Now I understand why she has been asking me so much about my sexual relations before. Sick.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Now I understand why she has been asking me so much about my sexual relations before. Sick.

 

That's just the way things are.

 

Dont throw you doing other chicks in her face. It's only gonna make things worse. Leave with dignity and respect. Wait until you at least sign the seperation papers and they are finalized. Getting coochie is easy but you should go about things in the right way with honor.

 

Respect yourself.

 

Just tell her that when the time comes your moving on and the door will be closed.

 

There's no reason for her to blame you for the downfall of your marriage.

 

She knows what caused it, just tell her so.

 

She knows what she needs to do is fix it, but if she keeps doing bad then that's what she's gonna get.

[redblack66]

That's just the way things are.

 

Dont throw you doing other chicks in her face. It's only gonna make things worse. Leave with dignity and respect. Wait until you at least sign the seperation papers and they are finalized. Getting coochie is easy but you should go about things in the right way with honor.

 

Respect yourself.

 

Just tell her that when the time comes your moving on and the door will be closed.

 

There's no reason for her to blame you for the downfall of your marriage.

 

She knows what caused it, just tell her so.

 

She knows what she needs to do is fix it, but if she keeps doing bad then that's what she's gonna get.

 

 

Exactly up to the point. I am clean in terms of other relations, which have not and do not exist. They are just in her head.

 

I told her that her relation caused the downfall. We had problems before, but not that serious and easy to work on with counseling etc.

 

I am very clear that our interactions will be e-mail, and if there is anything that does not deal with kids, it will be ignored.

 

She says no feelings towards me, but loves me. Sure, her feelings are in the new romance. She has no clue that we have no chance as far as she keep the OM, and she is not receptive at all to any logic from my side. Essentially, I am giving up any talks on this subject with her.

 

I have expressed myself very clearly that this relation put the nails in our marriage coffin.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Exactly up to the point. I am clean in terms of other relations, which have not and do not exist. They are just in her head.

 

I told her that her relation caused the downfall. We had problems before, but not that serious and easy to work on with counseling etc.

 

I am very clear that our interactions will be e-mail, and if there is anything that does not deal with kids, it will be ignored.

 

She says no feelings towards me, but loves me. Sure, her feelings are in the new romance. She has no clue that we have no chance as far as she keep the OM, and she is not receptive at all to any logic from my side. Essentially, I am giving up any talks on this subject with her.

 

I have expressed myself very clearly that this relation put the nails in our marriage coffin.

 

That feeling of being set free feels good doesnt it? She's in the fog right now, that's true. But honestly do you want to walk or are you leaving that choice for her. I mean I think I understand what your doing and I agree but do you want her back or are you willing to let her go?

[redblack66]

That feeling of being set free feels good doesnt it? She's in the fog right now, that's true. But honestly do you want to walk or are you leaving that choice for her. I mean I think I understand what your doing and I agree but do you want her back or are you willing to let her go?

 

Thank you for asking me. The story is a bit longer. In the summer she left me, but told me that she was going on an extended vacation at her parents house, 2,000 miles away. After she told me that she is not coming back, I got the kids through the court, and she came with them.

So, she made her choice, but really in the fog, in my opinion. I did not know about the affair at the time.

 

I have been trying to keep things together, but she has no desire whatsoever, and does not want to drop the OM. He is not a competition, as he is in Australia, 8 years younger, drinking problem,

etc. I wonder if my wife has really low esteem by choosing such a person, but feelings cannot be controlled sometimes.

 

So, I want to keep things together, but there is no co-operation. I think I should save myself, as I am worried about my health and work. They are both spiraling down, but I somehow manage.

 

I will let her go, but if she ever comes back, we have to redefine our relation quite carefully. She is not coming back in her mind. She will have second thought when the reality hits her.

Today she told me that our relation was not good for 11 years and it will take 22 to make up for what we have missed. I do not know if this makes sense.

 

The situation is: she is supposed to work on the separation agreement with her lawyer. I told her that if she wants out, better work on this. Then I will consider her proposal.

She blames me for not taking responsibility on separation issues?!

 

Another thing I am kind of worried about is my self respect,

which I neglected recently. I have to restore it, and getting out

may help in this respect.

[redblack66]

I am getting over my wife and trying to forget her, even we are in the same house. Perhaps anti-depressants are helping me.

 

I am going to fight for shared parenting, when the kids spent equal amount of time with me and my wife. If this happens, I will be very happy: I will give myself to the kids, and I do not have to deal with her BS every day.

I have given up on saving the marriage.

[NocturnalRaids]

I think you already know. She doesn't want a reconcile. You can leave and it will be ok.

 

If I were divorced, I would tell her she can have the kids if she wants. I would make clear that I would only share custody if she wanted me too. But if she doesn't need me, then I have no place in staying, Of course I would care for the kids, but love is a choice, so I would stick to that and leave them to be happy without me, whatever the reason. I would pack my stuff in the back of the truck, and leave her the house and everything, so long as she could afford it.

 

Just pay your child support. As for her, tell her you made a choice, and hold steadfast to that. So it doesn't matter what else is happening now. It may be agony, but it is caring more about them then yourself.

 

I'd say ask her about finalization, when she wants to end counseling, and at that time you move out. Or you can line everything up, then give her a week/two weeks notice. No matter what she says, follow through and move on that day. Or do it at midnight so the kids won't be alarmed and leave a note for her? Slip away like a ship in the night. You could combine it with the former.

[Gunny376]

That's really all that you can do in the end ~ isn't it?

 

A lot of times in Life, you're going to find yourself in situations and thinking? "What are you going to do? What can I do?"

 

The only thing that you really have control over is yourself, your life ~ and a say in the lives of your children.

 

Worry only about those things that you can do something about and accept the rest?

 

In time? You'll be alright? Time heals all wounds unless you pick at them. As the Beatles said ~ "Just Let it be!" It is what it is what was? Was. What is? Is. What will be ~ will be!

 

It takes two to make it, but only one to break it ~ and your wife isn't willing at this point and time to do the necesaary hard work to make it work.

 

Men and women? They're people ~ different in basic and funametal ways, to such an extent that it often seems they're world's apart? They're just coming at it (Life) from different angels and perspectives ~ so much so that oftentimes we can't see the other's perspectives?

 

And getting back to you about a previous post? All LJ was saying is that she cannot understand why men can't see women as having the capactity to be coniving, cheating, stealing, lying people as much as men are.

 

There really isn't all that much difference between men and women. I'd guess there about the same around 80%!

 

But there are differences ~ and its very much so hard-wired into our brain-housing-groups!

 

Take for example exaggeration. Men exaggerate about facts, data, size, etc. Women exaggerate about relationships and emotions. Your DW is very much off in la~la land caught in a fantasy land of wide open spaces, horses, mindering brooks and having wild sex with the young hired help with his young slender muscular body ~shirtless as he pitches bales of hay into the hay loft.

 

That's straight out of some dime-store, pulp-fiction rommance novel.

 

That's fantasy!

 

Fanstasy? Doesn't tote the note, doesn't get the job done! Fantasy doesn't pay the bills, let alone the mortgage.

 

Fantasy? Doesn't match up to the reality of day-to-day living.

 

And yes, its all going to come crashing down on her happy azz, quick, fast, and in a hurry like. And when she finds out that its a cold, cruel, un-forgiving world out there ~ full of not so nice people ~ she'll probally come begging back to your boring research-academic world.

 

You need to brace yourself for that reality! Because while Mr. Reality is bring her into line? He's bringing you into line!

 

You? You're "free-falling" back into your life ~ just as she will ~ eventually. But, you need to be playing "chess" you need to be six or seven moves ahead of her in deciding where your going to be mentally, emotionally, etc.

 

Me? I'm single ~ by choice. I don't have all that I want ~ but I've got all that I need. And it doesn't take much to make someone who's lived a Spartian life ~ Happy.

 

I'm telling you that because I want you to know and understand that being the otherside of divorce, single and alone? Its really not such a bad thing. I've come to like it and enjoy it. I like my "down-time" and my "fire-gazing" time. I was raised alone in the pine thickets of Alabama with just two loyal dogs as compaions (Buster and Brownie ~ LOL ) and I don't mind being alone.

 

I told you once ~ you're your own worse enemy in this?

 

You asked me what I meant by that? I never answered you. Why? Because you've got to answer it for yourself!

[ilmw]

Well there is not much else to say after Gunny's post.

 

But I'll give you my 2 cents. After having been through a 18 month separation myself... I can re-affirm what Gunny just said.

 

You truly have to buy into this train of thought. "You only control you" "Only you can make you happy".. "If you have no control over something...then don't worry about it" and most importantly... "Get your Sh*t together, and stand tall" Be proud of yourself... and show it. Have dignity,honour and self respect. Respect yourself, and others.... and get busy living!

 

Now this stuff, for me was hard to get my head around at first. I was foggy brained... and miserable... and wanted, wanted, and wanted!! Forever daydreaming... That is such a waist of your time and energy... But once again... It takes time... soon as you can get past that... you can concentrate on the most important thing to you... and that is YOU!

 

If you have not done so... I highly suggest you read as many posts on here as you can.... It truly helps to know... you are not alone.. in your abject misery. A fellowship if you like...

 

Also.... in my case... I found advise aimed at someone else.. which I took for myself... and often times found it helped...

 

There are some amazingly wise people on here... and you have had responses from several of them

 

Remember... take care of you... and all else will fall into place!

 

ilmw

[Chrome Barracuda]

Now your getting it R&B.

 

It's gonna take time but once you do, Once you move on that will be great for your self esteem and your worth as a human being!

 

It's time to move on.

 

Red listen she may come back one day, who knows but right now it's about you and your happiness. She doesnt want to be with you right? Then take notice and start to live for you.

[redblack66]

Friends: first I want to THANK everybody so, so much for the help

and hope you gave me through this difficult time for me. I do not know how to express how thankful I am.

 

I have been reading, and reading, and working on myself. I feel I am growing up by the hour, but also making mistakes along the way.

 

Here is an interesting conversation I just had with my wife, before me leaving for France. (I will fly back on Monday. I will be regularly reading LS.)

 

My wife asked me how I was doing, I said I have been very happy recently. Not quite, I was really happy the last two days.

 

Before I left, I bought a nice card, and a very nice, very unusual rose.

 

I wrote:

 

Dear H:

 

I expect you to find this annoying and perhaps you will discard it with passion.

 

This is a miniscule token to tell you that I have and appreciate you the way you are: with your strength and weaknesses, with your smarts and anger, with your passion, with your external and internal

beauty.

 

Friend and proud father of your children,

N

 

Now she was touched and wanted to talk to me. I said lovingly, that I would like to talk only about the children, and do not wish to talk about ourselves anymore. She said 'Forever?' I said 'We know what we know, and I really prefer not to talk about us'. She says 'You are again in extremes. Never?' I said 'It hurts me so much, it hurts me when I love somebody that does not want to have anything with me, and I do not want to go into the pain anymore.'

 

She said 'You did not meet my emotional needs. Do you think anybody can understand them?' I said 'You have to look inside yourself first. Read, think. I am on my way doing this already.'

I said 'My heart is broken into pieces, and I just don't want any pain anymore. I don't want to go there. I wish we talk only about the children'

 

She asked 'Have you moved on?' I said 'No'. She: 'when are you moving on?' I said 'I am working on it.'

 

I said 'Forgiveness requires maturity, strength, and time. I think I am mature enough, have the strength, and with little time, I will forgive you.'

 

We starred at each others eyes for a while an she started crying. I gave her a gentle hug, and said I needed to get ready.

 

Little honest drama, but this is the type of conversations we needed many times in the past.

 

All this is very SAD, as I feel things were not that broken, and they are not irrepairable. I remember with my previous wife the separation and divorce were much more worse. I really wanted to get together. She was in her dream world. She wanted me badly after a year.

 

So, as of today, I am NOT reading into what she says, I take it as what it is. I started interacting very happily with people, and I just see the positive reaction on the other side.

[redblack66]

Well there is not much else to say after Gunny's post.

 

But I'll give you my 2 cents. After having been through a 18 month separation myself... I can re-affirm what Gunny just said.

 

You truly have to buy into this train of thought. "You only control you" "Only you can make you happy".. "If you have no control over something...then don't worry about it" and most importantly... "Get your Sh*t together, and stand tall" Be proud of yourself... and show it. Have dignity,honour and self respect. Respect yourself, and others.... and get busy living!

 

I agree. I was thinking today that if I was really happy and content with myself, wife leaving would not be such a shock for me.

 

Now this stuff, for me was hard to get my head around at first. I was foggy brained... and miserable... and wanted, wanted, and wanted!! Forever daydreaming... That is such a waist of your time and energy... But once again... It takes time... soon as you can get past that... you can concentrate on the most important thing to you... and that is YOU!

I know what you are talking about. I am there...

 

If you have not done so... I highly suggest you read as many posts on here as you can.... It truly helps to know... you are not alone.. in your abject misery. A fellowship if you like...

I am reading many posts and I recall reading your thread. BTW,

are you happy with you wife now? Has she changed positively?

I am thinking way into the future, but I will change in many ways and I am just wondering if my wife will be the same.

 

Remember... take care of you... and all else will fall into place!

This is what I think. What happened in my life had to happen. I was losing myself and who I was. Things happen for reason.

ilmw

[redblack66]

Now your getting it R&B.

 

It's gonna take time but once you do, Once you move on that will be great for your self esteem and your worth as a human being!

 

It's time to move on.

 

Red listen she may come back one day, who knows but right now it's about you and your happiness. She doesnt want to be with you right? Then take notice and start to live for you.

 

Yes, I took notice. I gave and did everything I could have with my understanding of the world. She wants out. So be it. I will fight for the children to have both parents equally involved in their lives.