separated in the same house; would wife come around

[Chrome Barracuda]

I am just thinking, and perhaps I should stop doing this, how a wife can fall in love so badly and how to fall out of love with the OM. I guess I have no influence on this.

 

Even if I am the most amazing person in the world, she just does not want me as her brain is with the OM. Any attempt to look more attractive she may see as a pitty sign of weakness.

 

I guess dating others may be the only way to get a mate back, or simply just move on quickly with life.

Trying to understand perhaps something that cannot be understood about women.

 

Any female point of view will be appreciated.

 

I aint no female but when youve detached and moved on either she'll want you back, be jealous or she'll actually be happy that you found someone better than her because she feels worthless.

 

I think you should just date someone else and be honest with the new woman. But the first thing is to not focus on your soon to be ex anymore.

 

And whatever you do, dont go backwards because she'll betray you again later on down the line. I've seen this happen so many times. And if you do get back together make her sign a post nup agreement basically saying if she messes up again you get primary custody and she has to pay child support.

 

If she wont sign it you stay gone. Simple as that. If she loves you then for her signing the post nup shouldnt be a problem. marriage is for life right? she loves you right? Then she shouldnt nor be able to stray again, no matter the MLC or anything else!

[Missy27]

Your wife isn't "In Love" with OM ~ even if she thinks she is ~ it's infatuation ~ ~ she feels "obliged to concentrate on the object of her desires" and therefore construdes that she "loves" OM because so many of her thoughts are consumed with thoughts of him ~ for you ~ you're stuck between a rock and a hard place because you wont get any kind of rationality from her whilst she's got her brain jam locked up her a$$ with OM

 

The fact that he's on the other side of the world only serves to feed her desires because he's subconciously providing her with something mysterious ~ not purposely ~ ~ but she cant get to know him in entirety because she cant be with him so in effect she's creating an imaginary person ~ someone who she THINKS he is and would LIKE him to be primarily on the basis of physical attraction ~ ~ He's like her Knight in shining armour ~ and she's fantasizing about him whisking her off on his white horse ~ ~ ~ and until she SEES the reality of the situation ~ there's not alot you can do to get her head out of the clouds because she'll swear blind that she's in love with OM when actually it's all just one big rose tinted FANTASY ~

 

I am unsure of what your next move should be ~ it's difficult ~ LJ is better at advising in that respect ~ I do think you should take a step back from her and distance yourself emotionally ~ you dont need to be nasty about it ~ you can still ensure that all of your transactions with her leave her with a pleasant taste in her mouth ~ you need to do this consistently though because with her head where it is at the moment ~ its going to take a while for anything positive you do to register in her brain ~ it will eventually though ~ she'll slowly start noticing the way she feels after an encounter with you ~ and if it always leaves her feeling positive about you then that cant be a bad thing ~~ you dating other women ~ wont leave her feeling good about you at the moment ~ and it wont do you any favours either ~ the last thing you want is to get soeone else involved in this mess ~ dont talk about your relationship with her ~ AT ALL ~ just give her a little bit to play with ~ something to get her thinking again ~~

[redblack66]

I aint no female but when youve detached and moved on either she'll want you back, be jealous or she'll actually be happy that you found someone better than her because she feels worthless.

I am sure she is swinging between these two options.

As bizarre as it sounds, and as much pain as I am carrying, I enjoy researching this subject of getting together and how to behave.

 

I think you should just date someone else and be honest with the new woman. But the first thing is to not focus on your soon to be ex anymore.

 

Absolutely correct. I wish I have not been focused for two the last two months.

 

And whatever you do, dont go backwards because she'll betray you again later on down the line. I've seen this happen so many times. And if you do get back together make her sign a post nup agreement basically saying if she messes up again you get primary custody and she has to pay child support.

 

If she wont sign it you stay gone. Simple as that. If she loves you then for her signing the post nup shouldnt be a problem. marriage is for life right? she loves you right? Then she shouldnt nor be able to stray again, no matter the MLC or anything else!

 

 

This about the post nup is ingenious! Thank you so much.

[redblack66]

Your wife isn't "In Love" with OM ~ even if she thinks she is ~ it's infatuation ~ ~ she feels "obliged to concentrate on the object of her desires" and therefore construdes that she "loves" OM because so many of her thoughts are consumed with thoughts of him ~ for you ~ you're stuck between a rock and a hard place because you wont get any kind of rationality from her whilst she's got her brain jam locked up her a$$ with OM

 

The fact that he's on the other side of the world only serves to feed her desires because he's subconciously providing her with something mysterious ~ not purposely ~ ~ but she cant get to know him in entirety because she cant be with him so in effect she's creating an imaginary person ~ someone who she THINKS he is and would LIKE him to be primarily on the basis of physical attraction ~ ~ He's like her Knight in shining armour ~ and she's fantasizing about him whisking her off on his white horse ~ ~ ~ and until she SEES the reality of the situation ~ there's not alot you can do to get her head out of the clouds because she'll swear blind that she's in love with OM when actually it's all just one big rose tinted FANTASY ~

 

You are SO RIGHT. This is what I believe too. In addition, my wife is the most jealous person I have met in my life. Her thinking about him going to a bar may really get her imagination work.

 

I am unsure of what your next move should be ~ it's difficult ~

I died my hair, so I look young. I just both cool, sexy clothes. A female friend consulted me on how to change myself from her perspective so I am sexy and cool.

 

 

I am going to the theater tonight with a nice lady. If I asked, I am telling my wife I am going for a coffee with a friend. Any better ideas?

 

LJ is better at advising in that respect ~ I do think you should take a step back from her and distance yourself emotionally ~ you dont need to be nasty about it ~ you can still ensure that all of your transactions with her leave her with a pleasant taste in her mouth ~ you need to do this consistently though because with her head where it is at the moment ~ its going to take a while for anything positive you do to register in her brain ~ it will eventually though ~ she'll slowly start noticing the way she feels after an encounter with you ~ and if it always leaves her feeling positive about you then that cant be a bad thing ~~ you dating other women ~ wont leave her feeling good about you at the moment ~ and it wont do you any favours either ~ the last thing you want is to get soeone else involved in this mess ~ dont talk about your relationship with her ~ AT ALL ~ just give her a little bit to play with ~ something to get her thinking again ~~

Sure, you are right. She really played me before I discovered the truth and asked me in details about my previous relationship. Stupid me, provided details. Lesson: just do not talk about these things.

[redblack66]

Wife saw me with my dyed hair and she was speechless in a positive way. Kept saying you are having a hot date; I kept saying no date. So guys, dye hair and make other external changes.

[redblack66]

I went for a massage to relax and talked to the lady about my life.

She told me: dye your hair so the gray hair is not visible, and you will look younger. Get a white T-shirt, black shirt with blue stripes, put black jeans and watch. I did this immediately, and was it interesting:p

 

After seeing my hair my wife kept telling me how young I look, and even sexy. When she saw my complete outfit, she just said 'Oh my God'. She just kept watching me in amazement and disbelief.

So, she kept telling me you are going on a hot date and asking how young my date is. No date, went with a female friend to see a play and had a lot of fun conversation. I expect tomorrow tones of questions about my evening.

 

I am so tired of questions that I feel saying in a jokingly voice: we are f***ing separated when I am asked.

Actually, I never swear.

 

So work on yourself both inside and outside. I feel really good when I am different 'outside'.

[bestadvisor]

 

I am going to the theater tonight with a nice lady. If I asked, I am telling my wife I am going for a coffee with a friend. Any better ideas?

 

 

 

Is this nice lady single? What's her intention/motive of hanging out with you? Is there any possibility that you might start something with her?

 

 

Sit down with her and tell her seriously (NOT jokingly) and sincerely, that you have never cheated on her and because of that, what she did with the OM truly hurt you deeply. And, then ask her if she believe you. If her answer is "no," or if she has any doubt, get a phone book or an internet print out with a list of lie detectors and ask her to pick one and that you will be willing to schedule an appointment right there right then.

 

Your responce was: "Very good ideas!"

 

Tell her that you're doing this for the sake of the children, because of them, she will always be in your life and she needs to know the truth for future relations/interactions with you regards to the kids (or, in your perspective, for her to make an informed decision about the divorce).

 

Your responce was: "Very well said."

 

Did you totally ignored my suggestions above? Keep going on these what seems to her to be clearly "dates," you're heading on a dangerous road and directly toward divorce.

[redblack66]

Is this nice lady single? What's her intention/motive of hanging out with you? Is there any possibility that you might start something with her?

 

Single lady, nothing serious, just friendship. The things is, each of us has an evening off during the week. She goes out one night and I go out one night.

She always thinks that I go on a date, especially if I am dressed well. Also, it is unhealthy to sit around my wife and have no life.

I dress well to feel good about myself. I changed my wardrobe nearly completely.

No, I am not starting anything until I am clear about my situation.

Even before I left last night, I told her that I am working on the marriage and not getting into anything. Her response was 'Don't be funny'.

 

Your responce was: "Very good ideas!"

 

 

 

Your responce was: "Very well said."

 

 

Did you totally ignored my suggestions above? Keep going on these what seems to her to be clearly "dates," you're heading on a dangerous road and directly toward divorce.

I did not ignore them completely. I have said what you suggested earlier, but not the way you said it. They are away to visit relatives on the weekend. When they come back, I will tell my wife what you advised me, more or less exactly the way you said it. She has been in a foul mood this week, and quite difficult to talk to her.

 

The situation is: all her passion at the moment is with her OM. She has no passion for me. As far as I know, she is thinking to travel to Australia one day to visit him.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I feel that one way to get her back is if she feels that she is losing me, something like reverse psychology.

 

Surely, I am nice, helpful, and cheerful. This morning she got very angry because kids were watching TV, while I was making pancakes,

and the TV is in my room, so I was responsible.

I told her 'I will not allow disrespect towards me anymore'. I got the kids after I was done my work.

 

I think emotionally she is just out of the marriage, and as Gunny said

earlier: 180+indiference+tough love may work.

[Gunny376]

Go and buy your "happy~ass" some "Lorel" lipstick and some "Red Door" perufme.

 

Put the lipstick on your lips, and then kiss the collar of one of your favorite shirts and spary just a whiff of the "Red Door" on your collar?! Then leave it laying around for the "wash" for her to find.

 

Women want what other women want!

 

When she saids "What's this?" You say what's ~ what?

[redblack66]

Wife has a birthday next week. I feel giving her only a card, but sometimes I feel giving her a present, say matching earrings, bracelet, and necklace. Also wondering if I should take her for dinner.

 

Any advice about how to "play" this is highly appreciated.

I do not want to appear clinging, especially when her mind is with the OM.

 

I was also thinking of doing a surprise party next Saturday, but I am giving up this idea.

[Ladyjane14]

Wife has a birthday next week. I feel giving her only a card, but sometimes I feel giving her a present, say matching earrings, bracelet, and necklace. Also wondering if I should take her for dinner.

 

Any advice about how to "play" this is highly appreciated.

I do not want to appear clinging, especially when her mind is with the OM.

 

I was also thinking of doing a surprise party next Saturday, but I am giving up this idea.

 

Don't spend a whole lot of money. A better gift would be a more emotionally meaningful one. If you overspend, she's going to think you're trying to 'buy' her affection. You can certainly ask her to dinner; the worst that can happen is she says 'no'. Either way, treat it like you're inviting your SISTER.

 

Take the kids shopping for presents, but again... don't overspend. You can either help them bake her a cake at home, or pick up a small one at the bakery.

 

As for a present from you... a digital picture frame, preloaded with her favorite family photos (no wedding shots) would probably serve as a reminder of family life.

 

 

 

p.s. I think it's a mistake to wind her up with game-playing. Unless you're really ready to move forward with divorce... "dating" is just rolling in the mud with her.

 

That said... you can decide to be done with this at any time. She's been insistent upon divorce all along. It's perfectly okay for you to take her up on it if that's what you want to do. It's your call. Either way you decide though.... EMBRACE your choice. Be 'all in' or 'all out'; it's up to you. All I'm saying is that half-measures only add to the confusion.

 

If you're going to try to stay in for a while longer... I'm still thinking "Plan A" + the appropriate 180's is your best bet. Be nice, be considerate, be interesting, respect her "trial separation" by behaving as a pretty good roommate rather than a pissed off husband. That way, when the time comes for "Plan B", the contrast between having you in her life and having you out of it will be HUGE. (Have you read Surviving an Affair yet, btw? )

 

I think it was a comedy of errors which led you into this "trial separation"... but for now, it exists as fact. You can either cooperate with it, all the while 'putting your best foot forward' in the hope she reevaluates her stance... or 'call it a day' and get the ball rolling on the divorce.

[redblack66]

Don't spend a whole lot of money. A better gift would be a more emotionally meaningful one. If you overspend, she's going to think you're trying to 'buy' her affection. You can certainly ask her to dinner; the worst that can happen is she says 'no'. Either way, treat it like you're inviting your SISTER.

 

Excellent posting.

She would come for dinner.

 

Take the kids shopping for presents, but again... don't overspend. You can either help them bake her a cake at home, or pick up a small one at the bakery.

 

As for a present from you... a digital picture frame, preloaded with her favorite family photos (no wedding shots) would probably serve as a reminder of family life.

The digital picture frame is a great idea.

 

p.s. I think it's a mistake to wind her up with game-playing. Unless you're really ready to move forward with divorce... "dating" is just rolling in the mud with her.

Yes, it is dangerous. However, fear of losing my wife has worked against me.

 

That said... you can decide to be done with this at any time. She's been insistent upon divorce all along. It's perfectly okay for you to take her up on it if that's what you want to do. It's your call. Either way you decide though.... EMBRACE your choice. Be 'all in' or 'all out'; it's up to you. All I'm saying is that half-measures only add to the confusion.

She's been insistent upon separation, but not upon divorce, which does not make much sense to me.

 

If you're going to try to stay in for a while longer... I'm still thinking "Plan A" + the appropriate 180's is your best bet. Be nice, be considerate, be interesting, respect her "trial separation" by behaving as a pretty good roommate rather than a pissed off husband. That way, when the time comes for "Plan B", the contrast between having you in her life and having you out of it will be HUGE. (Have you read Surviving an Affair yet, btw? )

If for some difficult logistics about who lives where, I will be in the above Plan A, but it requires NC with the OM, which I cannot achieve.

 

I think it was a comedy of errors which led you into this "trial separation"... but for now, it exists as fact. You can either cooperate with it, all the while 'putting your best foot forward' in the hope she reevaluates her stance... or 'call it a day' and get the ball rolling on the divorce.

Yes, comedy of errors. I should be a good roommate and try to remember not to be a pissed off husband. Problem is she gets pissed about nothing and I get yelled at. Last time I said I don't allow disrespect. Next time I may withdraw until she acts with respect.

[bestadvisor]

Repost Below

[bestadvisor]

repost below

[bestadvisor]

Single lady, nothing serious just friendship. No, I am not starting anything until I am clear about my situation.

 

Do you think she has attraction for you? Do you see yourself with her if you're not married?

 

Even before I left last night, I told her that I am working on the marriage and not getting into anything. Her response was 'Don't be funny.'

 

This seems like a clear sign indicating that she believed you are and have been cheating on her while you're on these "dates." It's no wonder she has checked out of the marriage. Can you really blame her for wanting or having checked out if she believed that you're fooling around behind her back? It's very important that you come clean to her about your faithfulness with strong willingness to prove to her through lie detectors.

 

I feel that one way to get her back is if she feels that she is losing me, something like revers psychology.

 

I was the one who initially suggested this, remember. It seems that you have valued my advice. I hope you will continue to follow my advice. Here is the list:

 

1) Tell her about your faithfulnesss for the past XX years by seriously offering lie detector test to proof it. Do this for her; do this for yourslef; do this for your children.

 

2) Stop these "dates." If you want to go out, fine, but do so with a guy firend. If it's a female, it has to be a close relative. You can't expect her mood to be good or expect her not to be angry if she is visioning in her mind what you're doing on these "dates." She was angry with you about the kids and TV, did it ever occur to you that it might be indirectly caused by your "date" the night before? I think your firiendship with this single feamle is inappropirate and that's what I think, imagine what your wife thinks. Right now, you might not really care about what she thinks, but twon wrong doesn't make it right. You are doing all these fun activities with your "date," when was the last time you did that with your W without bringing the kids? How do you think it feels for her to be sitting at home alone with the kids thining about your infedelity while you're out with your "date." You NEED to stop these "dates" and do whatever you like once your divorce is finalized. Untill then, you're still a married man, act like one.

 

3) Your living arrangement is not working out. She's living with you, but just as a roommate. You share the day to day chores, duties, and responsibilities, but not the intimacy that goes with it in a marraige. It seems that she might need to get burned to realize what she's doing by going out to the world on her own. Whatever you do, don't move out of the house. It will make you look like the bad guy who abandoned his family if you do. If it comes to it, let her rent a smal partment near your house.

 

4) Continue your love for her whie she's still in the house and at the same time, keep improving yourself, but don't over do it. ONce you change your look, you might get carry away and forget how to be down to earth. Don't let that happen to you. When you're in France, I had a feeling that you have this strong desire to win her back....what happened?

 

I really hope you will follow my advice 1,2, and 4. You have little or nothing to lose by following them. Even if your marriage fails, you can look back one day and say to yourself that you tried. Evne if your marriage fails, you will have a better ralationship with your W for the children's sake if you follow the advice above.

 

She's been insistent upon separation, but not upon divorce, which does not make much sense to me.

 

Just remember: 1) there is hope; 2) you're not completely faultless.

[redblack66]

Do you think she has attraction for you? Do you see yourself with her if you're not married?

I do not feel there is attraction beyond just having mature conversations. I cannot say if I see myself with her, as I would need a lot of time to evaluate such an option.

 

This seems like a clear sign indicating that she believed you are and have been cheating on her while you're on these "dates."

Her explanation for her cheating is that we were separated. I have told her over and over again that I would get involved after divorce is final. Until that point, I am married.

She told me several times that she would be happy if I move on with my life and find a partner. I do not believe this.

 

It's no wonder she has checked out of the marriage. Can you really blame her for wanting or having checked out if she believed that you're fooling around behind her back? It's very important that you come clean to her about your faithfulness with strong willingness to prove to her through lie detectors.

Yes, she indeed believes that I have been fooling around. I do not know how she got these ideas. I also travel 2-3 times a year to various conferences and workshops, and she thought that I have had affairs during these trips.

 

 

I was the one who initially suggested this, remember. It seems that you have valued my advice. I hope you will continue to follow my advice.

I remember and I do value your advice.

 

Here is the list:

 

1) Tell her about your faithfulnesss for the past XX years by seriously offering lie detector test to proof it. Do this for her; do this for yourslef; do this for your children.

Will do.

 

 

2) Stop these "dates." If you want to go out, fine, but do so with a guy firend. If it's a female, it has to be a close relative. You can't expect her mood to be good or expect her not to be angry if she is visioning in her mind what you're doing on these "dates."

 

Well, she has checked out big time. Now, is it possible that she is envisioning me being with another woman and getting upset, when she has no feelings for me, at least she tells me this.

 

The situations is subtle, and I feel the following is true.

Even if I am the most wonderful husband and father from now on (and I have been very good), her passion for me will not come back easily, and may never come back.

The more I am available to her, the worse. If I do not get a life outside the house, the more she will think that I am clinging, the less attractive I become.

I feel I have to pull back and go on with my business, whatever it is.

I have to add here that my wife is very stubborn, and until she gets the separation she wants, she will not reason with me.

I think unless she gets attracted to me again at some subconscious level, we have little chance.

 

 

She was angry with you about the kids and TV, did it ever occur to you that it might be indirectly caused by your "date" the night before?

That's it! It did not occur to me, and you are right.

 

I think your firiendship with this single feamle is inappropirate and that's what I think, imagine what your wife thinks. Right now, you might not really care about what she thinks, but twon wrong doesn't make it right. You are doing all these fun activities with your "date," when was the last time you did that with your W without bringing the kids? How do you think it feels for her to be sitting at home alone with the kids thining about your infedelity while you're out with your "date." You NEED to stop these "dates" and do whatever you like once your divorce is finalized. Untill then, you're still a married man, act like one.

Excellent points. The fact that she has not acted as a married woman does not imply that I should do the same. I should keep my integrity no matter what.

 

Me acting as a married man seems to annoy her, and she told me several times that we are not a couple. However, I am conveniently married man helping around and providing all the finances.

 

3) Your living arrangement is not working out. She's living with you, but just as a roommate. You share the day to day chores, duties, and responsibilities, but not the intimacy that goes with it in a marraige. It seems that she might need to get burned to realize what she's doing by going out to the world on her own. Whatever you do, don't move out of the house. It will make you look like the bad guy who abandoned his family if you do. If it comes to it, let her rent a smal partment near your house.

 

I agree with you. She has made comments that she may buy me out and I can move out. Still, I do not want to be the daddy that abandons

the kids with mommy, so I do not see how I move out, even if she offers to buy me out.

 

4) Continue your love for her whie she's still in the house and at the same time, keep improving yourself, but don't over do it. ONce you change your look, you might get carry away and forget how to be down to earth. Don't let that happen to you. When you're in France, I had a feeling that you have this strong desire to win her back....what happened?

Again very good points, don't over do it! Yes, I still want to win her back.

 

I really hope you will follow my advice 1,2, and 4. You have little or nothing to lose by following them. Even if your marriage fails, you can look back one day and say to yourself that you tried. Evne if your marriage fails, you will have a better ralationship with your W for the children's sake if you follow the advice above.

I will, and I want to give everything I can give to make it work. It terms of better relationship with W in the future, there will be none.

I have told her it will be only e-mail and only about the kids. No way

I am going through pain again.

 

Just remember: 1) there is hope; 2) you're not completely faultless.

I remember. I guess you believe there is hope(?), otherwise why post

I appreciate very much your advice and the time you take.

[redblack66]

Don't spend a whole lot of money. A better gift would be a more emotionally meaningful one. If you overspend, she's going to think you're trying to 'buy' her affection. You can certainly ask her to dinner; the worst that can happen is she says 'no'. Either way, treat it like you're inviting your SISTER.

 

Take the kids shopping for presents, but again... don't overspend. You can either help them bake her a cake at home, or pick up a small one at the bakery.

 

As for a present from you... a digital picture frame, preloaded with her favorite family photos (no wedding shots) would probably serve as a reminder of family life.

 

Well, I bought the cheapest, but reasonable quality, digital picture frame. I am having the fun of my life entering pictures.

Tomorrow I will scan some older, sweet pictures. This will be a gift she will never forget.

I am also burning 4 CDs with the top 100 hits of her birth year, 1971. I will leave them in the car. Having fun with this one too.

[american-woman]

Please give me some info on how long you have been mariried,was there any affairs ect.

As long as you both are in the house there is hope.

[bestadvisor]

 

 

I remember and I do value your advice.

 

 

That's it! It did not occur to me, and you are right.

 

 

I remember. I guess you believe there is hope(?), otherwise why post

I appreciate very much your advice and the time you take.

 

You have mentioned how insightful and good advice I have been given you, but, I (and others) can only give advice based on the limited information you provide. For example, if you didn't mention about her angry at you for the TV and kids, I wouldn't have found out the following three essential informaton:

 

1) She keep saying that she want you to find someone else and move on, but deep down inside, she doesn't want you to. (You already knew that).

 

2) She is hiding her anger as you can see by her reaction hours later to your "date."

 

3) You are very inconsiderate or/and insensitive to her feelings. You've known her for years and are currently lilving with her and you can't even pick up that she was mad at you not because of the TV-kids, but because of your date.

 

I think the whole picture and cd thing you're doing is great.

 

There is still a very good chance that she will move out because you mentioned how stuburn she is and that she has mentally checked out. That's why it's so important for you to create great memories while she's still in the house. Her moving out is not the end of it, but it's a giant step backward. Let's be honest, if she does leave (for good), deep down, you want two things to happen: 1) her wanting to be back with you and coming back to you; or 2) if it's too late and you've moved on, you still want her to regret her decision for leaving. To achieve these two goals, you have to be kind and sensitive to her while she's still around.

 

Ask yourself, when was the last time, you sincerely thank her for doing X, Y and Z around the house, for your kids, or for you? Is it too late to thank her for these chores/nice things she does for your family? Maybe, maybe not. You can still do it now, thank her sincerely for certain things that she does on a daily/regular basis that you have taken granted in the past and while you're at it, apologize to her for how you have taken it for granted in the past. When she is receiving and somewhat appreciating your sincerity, take advantage of the opportunity to give her a hug and a kiss on her forehead or hair. It's just these little things that sensitive women like her will appreciate. The upcoming days are the last days and chances for you to leave a good impression for her to remember and it's up to you to give her a last good or bad impression.

[redblack66]

Please give me some info on how long you have been mariried,was there any affairs ect.

As long as you both are in the house there is hope.

 

We have been married for 8 years, but leaving together for 11.5 years.

No affairs before she got involved in the summer.

Not clear if both of us in the house is good in the long run, but at least she can see that I am changing.

[redblack66]

You have mentioned how insightful and good advice I have been given you, but, I (and others) can only give advice based on the limited information you provide. For example, if you didn't mention about her angry at you for the TV and kids, I wouldn't have found out the following three essential informaton:

 

1) She keep saying that she want you to find someone else and move on, but deep down inside, she doesn't want you to. (You already knew that).

 

2) She is hiding her anger as you can see by her reaction hours later to your "date."

 

3) You are very inconsiderate or/and insensitive to her feelings. You've known her for years and are currently lilving with her and you can't even pick up that she was mad at you not because of the TV-kids, but because of your date.

 

About being inconsiderate: it is very true. I have not been the most considerate person. Bottom line is, I have realized this and working on it.

 

I think the whole picture and cd thing you're doing is great.

There is still a very good chance that she will move out because you mentioned how stuburn she is and that she has mentally checked out. That's why it's so important for you to create great memories while she's still in the house. Her moving out is not the end of it, but it's a giant step backward. Let's be honest, if she does leave (for good), deep down, you want two things to happen: 1) her wanting to be back with you and coming back to you; or 2) if it's too late and you've moved on, you still want her to regret her decision for leaving. To achieve these two goals, you have to be kind and sensitive to her while she's still around.

This is what exactly I think. I will be nice and a person anybody would like to be with, but no "doormat". If she gets angry, I may excuse myself and tell that I will be happy to communicate with her, as far as she is more respectful.

 

Ask yourself, when was the last time, you sincerely thank her for doing X, Y and Z around the house, for your kids, or for you? Is it too late to thank her for these chores/nice things she does for your family? Maybe, maybe not. You can still do it now, thank her sincerely for certain things that she does on a daily/regular basis that you have taken granted in the past and while you're at it, apologize to her for how you have taken it for granted in the past. When she is receiving and somewhat appreciating your sincerity, take advantage of the opportunity to give her a hug and a kiss on her forehead or hair. It's just these little things that sensitive women like her will appreciate. The upcoming days are the last days and chances for you to leave a good impression for her to remember and it's up to you to give her a last good or bad impression.

I will do that. I have been thanking sincerely, but I have not been good doing this over the years. Perhaps along with her birthday card, I will write a "thank you" letter and give her the kiss.

 

I feel that if I have more time, I may win her back, but it is a tough one. Even if this is impossible, she will have difficulties

checking out again completely, as it may not be easy to move on when the partner is doing so well with respect to her.

[Ladyjane14]

I will do that. I have been thanking sincerely, but I have not been good doing this over the years. Perhaps along with her birthday card, I will write a "thank you" letter and give her the kiss.

 

Whoa... back up there, fella! ..."tightwire walk over hot coals", remember???

 

You don't know that you're not going to be duking it out in court with this lady yet. It's a MISTAKE to put anything in writing that can be used against you later. So... you go presenting her with some mush about how great a wife and mother she is, and see if she doesn't bend you over with it later if things go down rough.

 

If you're going to give her a birthday card, limit it to congratulations on her special day and don't include any more sentiment than you would for one of your co-workers. Leave a little mystery, dude.

 

Big relationship talk ought to be off the table right now anyway. Here's a reprint of the 180's list:

Michele Weiner-Davis, re: DivorceBusting

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

 

Check out #29 in bold. Man, she needs to be OBSERVING you. There's nothing you can say or do which is going to peak her interest more than what she sees for herself. So...

 

Back off and don't push. Be polite, but not solicitous. Keep your interchanges short, but pleasant. Keep moving so you don't get pinned down. Give her "the bullet"... short, concise thoughts that she can mull over without rewriting. When she crosses the line showing anger or contempt, politely disengage and let her know she's out of bounds.

 

Bottom line... in a direct emotional exchange, she's gonna spin you on your head like a top. So, don't stand toe-to-toe with her in BIG RELATIONSHIP TALK. You've got to dive and weave, keep her off-balance and guessing. Women like mystery too, you know.

You're more interesting when she can't read you like the back of her hand.

 

For the birthday, giving her a present that you worked real hard on is offset by giving her a rather generic card and making the party more child-centered. This is an opportunity to show off your "Dad Skills", and as far as ENs are concerned... good parenting is high on the list.

 

If you take her to dinner... again, no big relationship talk, and no more romance than if you'd taken out your sister for a birthday meal. You can open the door at the restaurant, but not the car door. Choose a restaurant for good food rather than for ambiance.

 

Your wife has not expressed an interest in being your DATE. So, don't treat her like one. Buy her a meal, but treat her like your sister. If she brings up "the relationship", sidestep... just tell her you'd rather not spoil her special occasion by engaging in a discussion where you're unlikely to agree. Then... change the subject. Have a couple of ideas on standby so you'll have a subject ready that's juicy enough to distract her with.

 

You know... if a direct assault was going to work, we'd be done by now. Think about it. This is a stealth mission, man. Reorganize your though pattern to reflect it as such. This is two steps forward and one back, and the one back... keeps her guessing. Over the course of time, it's possible that you'll get where you want to go, but you can never forget for even a minute that you are NOT in the recovery phase. You're still in CONFLICT. And if you give her the tools to rape you up the whah-hoo... well, she's not trustworthy yet not to go through with it.

 

Tread lightly.

[bestadvisor]

What Ladyjane wrote above is very confusing.

 

Like I've said before, keep it simple, be kind and sincere, but don't over do it. Hug her if she appreciate your sincerity or your album/cd/pictures and kiss her on her forhead and nothing more. Tell her your appreciate her doing X, Y, Z for the house, the kids, and you, but don't tell her you've in love with her and she's the best thing ever.

 

There is nothing wrong with a man thanking and appreciating the mother of his chidren by doing nice things for her, hugging her, taking her out on a nice dinner.

 

I disagree with Ladyjane's suggestion about you being or staying mysterious. That's what got you into trouble in the first place, remember. Remember how you mislead her believing that you're been messing around? How did that work out for you? You have been way too mysterious and secretive to her and it's time for a change. Once again, don't over do it.

[redblack66]

Whoa... back up there, fella! ..."tightwire walk over hot coals", remember???

 

You don't know that you're not going to be duking it out in court with this lady yet. It's a MISTAKE to put anything in writing that can be used against you later. So... you go presenting her with some mush about how great a wife and mother she is, and see if she doesn't bend you over with it later if things go down rough.

 

If you're going to give her a birthday card, limit it to congratulations on her special day and don't include any more sentiment than you would for one of your co-workers. Leave a little mystery, dude.

 

LJ, I just can't tell you how much I appreciate what you say.

You are just right. I have had similar thoughts. Yes, I will give a casual birthday card from me and the kids.

 

Big relationship talk ought to be off the table right now anyway. Here's a reprint of the 180's list:

 

 

Check out #29 in bold. Man, she needs to be OBSERVING you. There's nothing you can say or do which is going to peak her interest more than what she sees for herself. So...

Great!

 

Back off and don't push. Be polite, but not solicitous. Keep your interchanges short, but pleasant. Keep moving so you don't get pinned down. Give her "the bullet"... short, concise thoughts that she can mull over without rewriting. When she crosses the line showing anger or contempt, politely disengage and let her know she's out of bounds.

Absolutely correct.

 

Bottom line... in a direct emotional exchange, she's gonna spin you on your head like a top. So, don't stand toe-to-toe with her in BIG RELATIONSHIP TALK. You've got to dive and weave, keep her off-balance and guessing. Women like mystery too, you know.

You're more interesting when she can't read you like the back of her hand.

Exactly.

 

For the birthday, giving her a present that you worked real hard on is offset by giving her a rather generic card and making the party more child-centered. This is an opportunity to show off your "Dad Skills", and as far as ENs are concerned... good parenting is high on the list.

I booked a nice restaurant, outside the city with a nice view. Perhaps I should go to a more child-oriented place?

 

If you take her to dinner... again, no big relationship talk, and no more romance than if you'd taken out your sister for a birthday meal. You can open the door at the restaurant, but not the car door. Choose a restaurant for good food rather than for ambiance.

OK. I should change restaurants. She likes Pad Thai, so I can take everybody to a Thai place walking distance from our house. Or perhaps to one of these Rainforest type restaurants with a lot of fun for the kids.

 

Your wife has not expressed an interest in being your DATE. So, don't treat her like one. Buy her a meal, but treat her like your sister. If she brings up "the relationship", sidestep... just tell her you'd rather not spoil her special occasion by engaging in a discussion where you're unlikely to agree. Then... change the subject. Have a couple of ideas on standby so you'll have a subject ready that's juicy enough to distract her with.

Excellent ideas. I am really avoiding relationship talks. One reason it hurts me big time when we talk. So I try to avoid them.

 

She is supposed to initiate separation talks and work on her financial statement, but I have not seen any of this yet. She will do this in the last minute.

 

You know... if a direct assault was going to work, we'd be done by now. Think about it. This is a stealth mission, man. Reorganize your though pattern to reflect it as such. This is two steps forward and one back, and the one back... keeps her guessing. Over the course of time, it's possible that you'll get where you want to go, but you can never forget for even a minute that you are NOT in the recovery phase. You're still in CONFLICT. And if you give her the tools to rape you up the whah-hoo... well, she's not trustworthy yet not to go through with it.

 

Tread lightly.

Again, excellent posting. Thanks a lot. They will be arriving in about an hour from her cousin's place. I am preparing a simple dinner. Hope I am not overdoing it :-)

 

Indeed, I am walking on a razor edge.

[redblack66]

What Ladyjane wrote above is very confusing.

 

Like I've said before, keep it simple, be kind and sincere, but don't over do it. Hug her if she appreciate your sincerity or your album/cd/pictures and kiss her on her forhead and nothing more. Tell her your appreciate her doing X, Y, Z for the house, the kids, and you, but don't tell her you've in love with her and she's the best thing ever.

 

You are also right. So, it seems I am confused if I can't see exactly what I should be doing. It is a real turmoil in my life. Today I hit another low. Last night I was with my older son (16), then visited a (male) friend and I was OK.

 

There is nothing wrong with a man thanking and appreciating the mother of his chidren by doing nice things for her, hugging her, taking her out on a nice dinner.

 

I disagree with Ladyjane's suggestion about you being or staying mysterious. That's what got you into trouble in the first place, remember.

Yes, she believed I was cheating. I was just working a bit too much,

which is affair with work :-)

 

Remember how you mislead her believing that you're been messing around? How did that work out for you? You have been way too mysterious and secretive to her and it's time for a change. Once again, don't over do it.

 

Yes, I should not over do anything. Yes, mystery and secrecy did not work that well. At the same time, LJ also has very good points.