separated in the same house; would wife come around

[redblack66]

I might get crusified by the others here for this suggestion, but, there is something you should consider. If the opportunity is right, try to make a move and get physical with her. I'm not suggesting trying to sleep with her, but try hand holding, hugging or kissing. I believe in order for this to work, you have to move to the next level or you'll be divorced or roommates forever. Neither of those two is what you want, is it?

Early in the morning I tried a kiss on the forehead, but she pulled.

 

In the evening she was with the kids playing in bed, and I enforced a kiss on the chick, and she did no pull. It will be a long way to get there. She knows that if I get there, she will capitulate and will not get what she wants, which is foggy in her head.

 

For example, today she had to work on her financial statement and she did not. I have not either. If she does not work on it in the next few days, we are in a good shape. However, I started thinking myself that it may not be a bad idea if we indeed separate completely. We'll see. The situation is confusing and out of control in many ways.

[bestadvisor]

In the evening she was with the kids playing in bed, and I enforced a kiss on the chick, and she did no pull.

 

 

Ok, I see, you're doing it already. How often have you tried this and in the past weeks, did she ever not pull away?

 

If next time, she doesn't pull, try another one and then more.

[redblack66]

Ok, I see, you're doing it already. How often have you tried this and in the past weeks, did she ever not pull away?

Not often, as I am in 180 :-) mode.

 

If next time, she doesn't pull, try another one and then more.

 

It is a bit early for this.

[bestadvisor]

Since you said that she wanted to go along to the dinner you had with your friends, why don't you plan a dinner with her alone. Get a babysitter and take her out for a night of fun. You never know, she might actually be longing for this.

[redblack66]

Since you said that she wanted to go along to the dinner you had with your friends, why don't you plan a dinner with her alone. Get a babysitter and take her out for a night of fun. You never know, she might actually be longing for this.

 

This is what I was thinking today. Danger is we may get into serious conversations and then a disaster is a sure thing. I may try to get another couple and go four of us. I should think of some exciting place that may involve little dancing, and with some alcohol the thing may happen.

[bestadvisor]

This is what I was thinking today. Danger is we may get into serious conversations and then a disaster is a sure thing. I may try to get another couple and go four of us. I should think of some exciting place that may involve little dancing, and with some alcohol the thing may happen.

 

You don't need my help; you're getting there already.

[ghdeter]

im going through this right now, except im the kid in it all, and if urs are like me, then you should probably try to let them be for a while, and DO NOT talk to them about it its only weird and depressing, also make sure your around a lot, but not pushy to hang out, just so they know you still care, my mom is always at her friends, and seems like she just doesnt care about me, leads me to hate her, and my dad is always on my case about something, hate him to, this is also the second time in my life this has happened, so if u think its hard for you t be seperated from ur wife, bout 5 times harder for the kid, even if they dont admit it. then again u never stated the kids ages, so unless there in there old enough to understand what is happening disregard all of this. hope i helped a little bit

[redblack66]

im going through this right now, except im the kid in it all, and if urs are like me, then you should probably try to let them be for a while, and DO NOT talk to them about it its only weird and depressing, also make sure your around a lot, but not pushy to hang out, just so they know you still care, my mom is always at her friends, and seems like she just doesnt care about me, leads me to hate her, and my dad is always on my case about something, hate him to, this is also the second time in my life this has happened, so if u think its hard for you t be seperated from ur wife, bout 5 times harder for the kid, even if they dont admit it. then again u never stated the kids ages, so unless there in there old enough to understand what is happening disregard all of this. hope i helped a little bit

 

Sorry to hear about your situation, and thank you for posting. Yes, we a caught up in what we feel. My son is 6, my daughter is 2.

Looking and my son's behavior, I feel he is affected negatively.

My wife is a good 100% mother, but lacking good judgment otherwise.

[Gunny376]

First off? Are you drinking? Me? I can't spell worht a damn ~ never could. I had a computer crash, and lost my WP in the process. But, I can see a lot of difference in your wording and spelling?

 

You spoke of going out with her and having a couple of drinks? And, having friends over for cocktails before going to to the XMAS parade.

 

Alcohol + marriage troubles? Very, very bad mix.

 

Like BA, I think you're making some most excellent moves, and you're thinking about and approaching this from both the micro and the macro level! Outstanding ~ simply outstanding! All that reading and learning you've been doing is starting to pay off in Spades.

 

"LEARN DAMNIT! LEARN!" (From the 80's flick "Wargames")

 

If you're like most men, (to include me) you were clueles about marriage and what it takes to make a marraige work ~ Hell most women are? And relationships are what women DO!

 

As I've said countless times? They don't teach it in grammer school, middle school, high school, and barely cover it, if at all in most colleges. (That along with Personal Finance ~ but that's another "beef" of mine)

 

The lack of teaching these courses,...............well its almost like we're being "set-up" for failure. And the entire system seems to be set up for us to fail.

 

That doesn't help you in the here and now though, does it? You're learning ~ and you're growing.

 

The nagging? Let me recommend a book titled, "Why Men Don't Have A Clue, and Women Don't Have Enough Shoes?" It will go a long way in helping you understand your wife's thinking, as well as your own. Its a quick short read, and a most excellent read!

 

I believe you've got a real, clear, pretty picture in the DW's head that you've have set you limits and your bounderies and that you will not be disrespected.

 

I also believe that you've got it across to her that her bards aren't effective upon you anymore. Some very effective pharses to use are:

 

"I understand" ~ ( and then shut up with a smile on your face!)

 

"I don't care" ~ with a boyish grin on your face! This is very effective with women ~ because it neturalizes about 90% of their BS!

 

Forget the past! That's all water over the damn and under the bridge! There's nothing ~ and I mean absolutely nothing that you can do about it ~ NOW!

 

What was ~ was! What is ~ is! What will be will be? Will be? Just that plain! Just that simple!

 

Its not so much about what happens to you in Life ~ so much as it is about what you're Happy~Azz is going to do about it? You can sit around and bemond your fate, or you can get up and do something about it? Good, bad, in-different, whatever? But damnit! Do SOMETHNING!

 

YOU? You've made the choice! You've made your choice to ride this E-Ride from Hell, "white-knuckling" it all the way to the bitter end! So be it!

 

ME? I know what I would do ~ if she were my wife! No "bones about it?" She would be out on her ear! But, that's me? And although I've been where you've been? I'm way on the otherside of where you're at!

 

With that said? The effects of divorce on children ~ even very young children are tremendous! Divorce affects children into their adulthood. In their 20's, 30's and even beyond.

 

Source materail "Second Chances" by Wallerstein and Blankenship as well as the current series running in "Dear Annie"

 

In the end? All your wife is doing? Is creating a more perfect husband for someone else! And a more miserable life for herself?

 

What's a "hayseed" of a farmhand got to offer someone like her?

[redblack66]

First off? Are you drinking? Me? I can't spell worht a damn ~ never could. I had a computer crash, and lost my WP in the process. But, I can see a lot of difference in your wording and spelling?

I do not drink. I can have a glass of wine or a beer 2-3 times a week. I have written and published many high quality scientific articles (according to my peers). However, the spelling and wording, after I read my postings again, have bothered me.

I started to worry that, because of stress, not eating well, smoking, there is something going on in my brain that "helps" me not to write well.

 

You spoke of going out with her and having a couple of drinks? And, having friends over for cocktails before going to to the XMAS parade.

 

Alcohol + marriage troubles? Very, very bad mix.

I am careful, and there is no problem in this area.

 

Like BA, I think you're making some most excellent moves, and you're thinking about and approaching this from both the micro and the macro level! Outstanding ~ simply outstanding! All that reading and learning you've been doing is starting to pay off in Spades.

 

"LEARN DAMNIT! LEARN!" (From the 80's flick "Wargames")

 

If you're like most men, (to include me) you were clueles about marriage and what it takes to make a marraige work ~ Hell most women are? And relationships are what women DO!

 

Thanks. I was a clueless macho man. In addition, I grew up in a family that was not a good example. I think I am reaching a point where just observing the dynamics of a married couple, e.g. when visiting friends, I can sense if the man is clueless about his relation and what is waiting for him.

 

As I've said countless times? They don't teach it in grammer school, middle school, high school, and barely cover it, if at all in most colleges. (That along with Personal Finance ~ but that's another "beef" of mine)

 

The lack of teaching these courses,...............well its almost like we're being "set-up" for failure. And the entire system seems to be set up for us to fail.

 

Correct. I feel that a high-school course along the lines of "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus", or any other insightful book, may have a profound impact.

 

That doesn't help you in the here and now though, does it? You're learning ~ and you're growing.

 

The nagging? Let me recommend a book titled, "Why Men Don't Have A Clue, and Women Don't Have Enough Shoes?" It will go a long way in helping you understand your wife's thinking, as well as your own. Its a quick short read, and a most excellent read!

You recommended this book a few times. I tried to find it in the bookstores around, but without success. I will order it.

 

I believe you've got a real, clear, pretty picture in the DW's head that you've have set you limits and your bounderies and that you will not be disrespected.

 

I also believe that you've got it across to her that her bards aren't effective upon you anymore. Some very effective pharses to use are:

 

"I understand" ~ ( and then shut up with a smile on your face!)

 

"I don't care" ~ with a boyish grin on your face! This is very effective with women ~ because it neturalizes about 90% of their BS!

 

Oh, yes. "I understand" is working; I do not always shut up, but I have to be more persistent.

 

I do not use "I don't care", but I use "Fine with me", which has similar effect.

 

Forget the past! That's all water over the damn and under the bridge! There's nothing ~ and I mean absolutely nothing that you can do about it ~ NOW!

 

Exactly what I am trying to convey to my wife without being explicit and pushy about it. Leave the past in the past; there will be a lot of time to revisit it.

 

Its not so much about what happens to you in Life ~ so much as it is about what you're Happy~Azz is going to do about it? You can sit around and bemond your fate, or you can get up and do something about it? Good, bad, in-different, whatever? But damnit! Do SOMETHNING!

 

First, I lived for about 20 days in self pity and sorrow. Then I decided it was time to take care of business.

 

YOU? You've made the choice! You've made your choice to ride this E-Ride from Hell, "white-knuckling" it all the way to the bitter end! So be it!

 

ME? I know what I would do ~ if she were my wife! No "bones about it?" She would be out on her ear! But, that's me? And although I've been where you've been? I'm way on the otherside of where you're at!

 

With that said? The effects of divorce on children ~ even very young children are tremendous! Divorce affects children into their adulthood. In their 20's, 30's and even beyond.

 

I know this painfully well from my first marriage. I finished with my first wife very quickly.

 

Source materail "Second Chances" by Wallerstein and Blankenship as well as the current series running in "Dear Annie"

 

In the end? All your wife is doing? Is creating a more perfect husband for someone else! And a more miserable life for herself?

 

Excellent saying. I will tell her at the appropriate moment.

She is smart to figure it out.

[bestadvisor]

You never mentioned much about marriage counseling. Did she refuse to go?

[redblack66]

You never mentioned much about marriage counseling. Did she refuse to go?

No, she did not. She goes with me to figure out how to deal with me as a separated spouse. Our MC cannot book us each week, and we go every 2-3, even 4 weeks, which is a real pain.

 

I go myself to individual counseling, and she was angry because I did not tell her I was going. However, she can go as much as she wants and for free.

[redblack66]

Well, another good day will be over. I prepared the food and drinks for a small party. She told me 'See how affectionate I am when you help.' No intimacy, just very nice behavior by her.

 

One of my guests asked me what made me change so much as appearance. I looked at my wife and said 'I am trying to attract this woman over there.' Then I said 'I am just having fun and feel really good'

 

For a second time she tells me that I am not even the man she married, that is, a much better than the one she married.

 

I told her that one of my advisors (following Gunny) told me 'You are creating a better husband for somebody else'; she was quite surprised by this comment. She asked me 'How many advisors do you have?'. I answered 'Nothing to hide, but I will give you the details when our difficult period is over.'

[BestAdvisor1]

No, she did not. She goes with me to figure out how to deal with me as a separated spouse. Our MC cannot book us each week, and we go every 2-3, even 4 weeks, which is a real pain.

 

I go myself to individual counseling, and she was angry because I did not tell her I was going. However, she can go as much as she wants and for free.

 

My understanding is that you're getting these services free because of your employment. Ever consider finding one that's pro-marriage? Either that or continue using your "self-help" method. You gotta make the move; if opportunity is right, hold her hand, give her a long hug. You mentioned that she takes naps, ever ask her if you can join her for a nap? Probably not. Next time you see her sitting there and not being mad, say "you look tired" and go over there and give her a massage without doing anything other than just massaging her.

[BestAdvisor1]

She asked me 'How many advisors do you have?'. I answered 'Nothing to hide, but I will give you the details when our difficult period is over.'

 

Just remember, out of ALL those advisors that you have, you have only one best advisor.

[redblack66]

My understanding is that you're getting these services free because of your employment. Ever consider finding one that's pro-marriage? Either that or continue using your "self-help" method.

We are seeing a pro-marriage MC, but the problem is that he is

too booked.

 

You gotta make the move; if opportunity is right, hold her hand, give her a long hug. You mentioned that she takes naps, ever ask her if you can join her for a nap? Probably not. Next time you see her sitting there and not being mad, say "you look tired" and go over there and give her a massage without doing anything other than just massaging her.

 

I am really watching for such an opportunity and calculating for the best time and place to make a move. She pulls away nearly all the time, but this is more due to pride than internal desire, I feel.

[BestAdvisor1]

Does she sleep in the same bed as your kids? In the same room as your kids? Ask her it would be ok to have a family sleep over on a weekend or something. Sleeping next to her allow you to cuddle or more.

[redblack66]

Does she sleep in the same bed as your kids? In the same room as your kids? Ask her it would be ok to have a family sleep over on a weekend or something. Sleeping next to her allow you to cuddle or more.

 

Being in the same bed is out of reach. I am going crazy being in the same house with my wife and not being able to be intimate with her.

Before she met me, she lived for 5 years without any sex. She can survive for a long time, but not me.

[BestAdvisor1]

Being in the same bed is out of reach. I am going crazy being in the same house with my wife and not being able to be intimate with her.

 

Maybe that's the idea, it motivate you or encourage you to make moves that you would normally not make due to fear of rejection or whatever that's holding you back. She said all those nice things abour your changes both inside and outside, don't you think she want you too but was holding back by something. But if you're persistent, she might give in.

[redblack66]

I also noticed that my wife has been reading some of the relationships books that I have been reading. I guess this is a positive sign and I know that it means nothing at the moment. Perhaps she may click soon

in a positive direction, but I do not expect this.

[Gunny376]

Ok?! Well its getting clearer and clearer as we move along here on this thread.

 

If you listen? Your wife is telling you everything that you need to know and understand about her and your sit-rep (military Situation Report) and everything that you need to know about how to fix the situation. She's plainly telling you what the issues ~ as you write they jump out at me?

 

First off? She's wanting more "me" time to explore, endevor "her" world. Right now? She's a stay at home mom with three little ones (?)

 

Hell I'd be climbing the walls within three freaking minutes if all my day-to-day world consisted of was being a child care provider. She's obviously intellegent, educated, actually reads a book, (Only 3% of all adults in the U.S have read a non-fiction book in the last year. Ironically? The same percentage that actively have a libary card and use it?)

 

So you need to get her out of the day-to-day, and get her into looking into some of her interest where the female to male ratio is 99 to 1 ~ and his Happy Ass is Gay! (Not that I have a problem with Gay men ~ Hell! As a single Hetrosexual male? I encourage all other men to become gay! Cuts down on the competition! )

 

She's wanting and needing more help around the house, just doing chores. She's bored with being a stay at home housewife with small children. She's not stimulated intellectually by it. So? You've got to re-define your lifestyle.

 

This is as much a problem for her ~ as it is for you.

 

She's most definately got a case of the "Friday Night Blues" in which you drag your Happy Azz dead-tired and beat up from the work week, and she's raring to go! Because she's spent the week copped up with three little ones!

 

Contrary to popular belief here? Its not so much a case of "dis-respect"? So much as you've lost "social value" in her eyes!

 

In her eyes she's a wife> a mother > a childcare provider > a piece of azz!

 

What you've got to get across to her? Is that you value her as a person! An individual! An initity! Unique! Valued! Wanted! Needed!

 

You're not ready for kissing and hugging ~ in her mind ~ you've already have proven yourself to be a "false prophet!" You talked the "talk, but you didn't walk the "walk!"

 

You've already fooled her once (into marrying you) and now the gates closed and the walls are manned!

 

Her reading the "relationship books" means she's curious and still in engaged in the marriage ~ that along with her comments at the "social".

 

IOW's? Theres "Hope Floats Enternal"

 

I've already clued you into one site? And I realize that's a lot of material to soak in? And, I've got other material to throw at you, but you're not ready for it.

 

Right now? You and her need to get back to just being friends! Forget sex!

 

Me? I'd tell her!

 

"I love you! I'm in love with you! I'd rather see you happy with someone else, than miserable with me! I LOVE you that much!"

[Woggle]

If you miss sex go out and have it with another woman but tell her first. Since she wants to leave you so bad she should have no problem with that right?

[redblack66]

Friends, as some of you noticed, I think I am dealing with a teenager, or a kid, or some midlife crisis nonsense. Here are some details from today.

 

In the morning she told me not to live in denial anymore and to think about separate lives. I said 'Yes, you are right. I should look for a place to live'; I do not know why I should be moving out.

She did not say anything on my comment about me moving out.

 

Then she wanted to go for lunch with our daughter to a 'romantic' restaurant. I noticed the breasts of the waitress, and my wife told me that I should not be looking if I am taking her to a romantic place.

I gave my wife a kiss and told her that she is the only one.

 

She kept asking me about my previous life and I told her looking straight into her eyes that from the day we met until today she has been the only woman in my life. She said 'I don't care', but I know that she cares.

 

She told me 'I am still young and deserve to find somebody that will be nice to me.' I told her 'After you will create the perfect husband, good luck finding somebody better.'

 

She told me 'I am not looking for anybody, and if I do not live with a man, perhaps I should share a place with another mother just to help each other with the kids.' I told her 'It has been enough of MLC, do you know what it is?' She did not know.

 

She said again 'You are transformed'; that is, a different man. She is angry that I was not like that over the years.

 

Well, I think she has not changed her mind about giving it another chance. I feel that she wants to explore the world.

[redblack66]

Ok?! Well its getting clearer and clearer as we move along here on this thread.

 

If you listen? Your wife is telling you everything that you need to know and understand about her and your sit-rep (military Situation Report) and everything that you need to know about how to fix the situation. She's plainly telling you what the issues ~ as you write they jump out at me?

 

I feel the same. A big issue is to be helpful at home and be very considerate. I am working on this seriously.

 

First off? She's wanting more "me" time to explore, endevor "her" world. Right now? She's a stay at home mom with three little ones (?)

 

Two little ones, 6 and 2. I do not know what her world is, but it is very foggy from my perspective. Part of it, I feel there is a lot of childish attitude.

 

Hell I'd be climbing the walls within three freaking minutes if all my day-to-day world consisted of was being a child care provider. She's obviously intellegent, educated, actually reads a book, (Only 3% of all adults in the U.S have read a non-fiction book in the last year. Ironically? The same percentage that actively have a libary card and use it?)

She is intelligent and very smart, often beyond believe.

 

So you need to get her out of the day-to-day, and get her into looking into some of her interest where the female to male ratio is 99 to 1 ~ and his Happy Ass is Gay! (Not that I have a problem with Gay men ~ Hell! As a single Hetrosexual male? I encourage all other men to become gay! Cuts down on the competition! )

So far, she goes to yoga. Should I figure out something that could be of interest to her and enroll her? She likes knitting and quilting. Actually, this is what she does all the time, when not taking care of kids.

 

She's wanting and needing more help around the house, just doing chores. She's bored with being a stay at home housewife with small children. She's not stimulated intellectually by it. So? You've got to re-define your lifestyle.

 

My lifestyle need re-defining big time. I do a lot of intellectual work;

I guess most of you are guessing what I do.

 

This is as much a problem for her ~ as it is for you.

Yes.

 

She's most definately got a case of the "Friday Night Blues" in which you drag your Happy Azz dead-tired and beat up from the work week, and she's raring to go! Because she's spent the week copped up with three little ones!

 

Contrary to popular belief here? Its not so much a case of "dis-respect"? So much as you've lost "social value" in her eyes!

 

The "social value" bothers me, the way you said it. I am reading the

Mystery Method, and the guy talks about "social value". I hope you do not mean the same as the author of this book.

 

 

In her eyes she's a wife> a mother > a childcare provider > a piece of azz!

 

What you've got to get across to her? Is that you value her as a person! An individual! An initity! Unique! Valued! Wanted! Needed!

 

Me saying the above will not have any effect. I am thinking about the following tonight. I will tell her:

I have watched this movie several times and I really want to watch it with you. I know you have very original views and ideas.

Let's have some intellectual evening and try to understand what the director tries to say.

She will interpret this as my plan of saving the marriage. She told me this morning to stop doing this.

Just an idea. I tried a few times to engage her into this, but perhaps the timing is better now.

 

You're not ready for kissing and hugging ~ in her mind ~ you've already have proven yourself to be a "false prophet!" You talked the "talk, but you didn't walk the "walk!"

 

You've already fooled her once (into marrying you) and now the gates closed and the walls are manned!

 

Her reading the "relationship books" means she's curious and still in engaged in the marriage ~ that along with her comments at the "social".

 

I hope she is engaged, but nails me down when says forget about it.

 

IOW's? Theres "Hope Floats Enternal"

 

I've already clued you into one site? And I realize that's a lot of material to soak in? And, I've got other material to throw at you, but you're not ready for it.

 

Please throw as you feel the right time arrives and you have enough time for this.

 

Right now? You and her need to get back to just being friends! Forget sex!

 

Me? I'd tell her!

 

"I love you! I'm in love with you! I'd rather see you happy with someone else, than miserable with me! I LOVE you that much!"

 

Well, I may say this, but it will be part of a game, rather than my honest view.

[BestAdvisor1]

I am thinking about the following tonight. I will tell her:

I have watched this movie several times and I really want to watch it with you. I know you have very original views and ideas.

Let's have some intellectual evening and try to understand what the director tries to say.

She will interpret this as my plan of saving the marriage. She told me this morning to stop doing this.

Just an idea. I tried a few times to engage her into this, but perhaps the timing is better now.

 

How can it be a romantic when you actually bring the kids with you? By the way, it was disrespectful, even you were with your casual female friend, when you did that with the waitress.

 

You should get a movie that will put her in the mood. Watch the movie when the kids are in bed. While you go get the movie, get some wine and snack (chocolate). Make sure you're sitting right next to her while watching the movie.