separated in the same house; would wife come around

[Gunny376]

The person that cares the least about the relationship? Is the person that controls it. Without trying to be cruel? That wouldn't be you.

 

And LJ's right? You're way past the opening hand. And so you've got to play the hand that you've been dealt?

 

The hand Jmargel is advocating should have been played from the outset. But that's too much water over the damn and under the bridge now I think (not for me though LOL!)

 

And what LJ's trying to subtlely lead you to? Is walking the razor's edge between being an complete and total azzhat, and a lay-down?

 

The best example I've seen of this has been Perry and ilmw (Perry = PSWX3)

 

She's seems to be very interested in your "business" which means at some level she's still in engaged with you mentally and emotionally?

 

What she's wanting is change in you, herself, her life. etc. And granted? She's got her fantasy life tangled up with her real (reality) life.

 

And, LJ's right, there's something that's not being communicated across this medium here ~ that we're not getting about the marriage and her?

 

IMHO? I really don't think its so much about you, and is about her own personal discontentment with herself and her life.

 

And LJ's right! It takes two to make it, and one to break it.

 

Jmargel and I are on the otherside of this. Our experiences have taught us to be hard and to set the bar high for the women in our life. For he and I? A woman gets to walking and talking the way your DW is ~ we won't only tell her to get to steppin' but give her happy azz a shove out the door! And then stick our heads out the door, look up and down the street both ways and holler "NEXT!"

 

I'm telling you RB, Life's just too freaking short! And I know you're hanging tough more so for the sake of the children than any other reason? But, at some point you've got to have some relief, respect, and peace of mind.

 

I've been married, I've shacked up, and I've been single. Far better to be single and alone ~ than married and miserable.

 

Its taken a lot of time, effort, thought, reading, searching, etc to come to understand that my X wife and I were simply intellectually, culturally, mentally, emotionally in-compatiable. I loved her like all "get out" But in the end? I was just her latest and greatest "host" upon which to feed upon. She's the type of woman that has to have a man, a husband becuase she can't make it in life without one.

 

I don't have to have a woman to survie. I know how to cook, clean house, wash clothes yada~yada! I even know how to bake a pie and cake. I also know a bunch of stuff about a bunch of stuff that I learned mostly from the Marines. A Country Boy will survive.

 

And you don't either.

 

I don't want a woman because I need her ~ I want to need her because I love her and she loves me!

[Chrome Barracuda]

Gunny is right, there is a difference between want and need.

 

The thing is that I want to ask is these changes that your making you should not do that for her. But do it for you. Because they will come a day when she will want to come back. When that day comes you will have reached a level of clarity,

 

Now the thing is she says all those changes wont last. See she's indecisive right there, when she's finally out. She'll regret it. But by then you'll have a good new woman right there for you, and it wont be her.

 

If she was really serious about wanting you back she'd make the steps to actively reconsile. But if she's not . Keep doing what your doing. Find someone else. Show her that you are moving on. Let her stew in it. lol.

[Gunny376]

Gunny is right, there is a difference between want and need.

 

The thing is that I want to ask is these changes that your making you should not do that for her. But do it for you. Because they will come a day when she will want to come back. When that day comes you will have reached a level of clarity,

 

Now the thing is she says all those changes wont last. See she's indecisive right there, when she's finally out. She'll regret it. But by then you'll have a good new woman right there for you, and it wont be her.

 

If she was really serious about wanting you back she'd make the steps to actively reconsile. But if she's not . Keep doing what your doing. Find someone else. Show her that you are moving on. Let her stew in it. lol.

 

 

LJ's alluded to it ~ but the fact of the matter is? Just because you were born with a vagina ~ doesn't mean your happy~azz gets a "free get out of jail" card!

[redblack66]

See, your wife has some kind of beef with you, and through your posts, I've been unable to determine what kind of changes she's looking for. There's a gap in the information where we're not getting a peek into the marriage itself and what dynamics were in play before she checked out.

 

My behavior was similar to the behavior of ilmw before she checked out. Too much work, depressed, unhappy with what I have, asking her to go to work, critical all the time, no help with the kids, etc.

All this is gone.

 

She wants separation, and told me that I have been controlling again by refusing to talk about it. She wants separation of assets.

I am not sure she was 100% convinced about it. I got so emotional when I discovered her affair that I said go ahead and I am filing for divorce. Now when I calmed down, I am rethinking everything.

I will not move out of the house. She wants to move with the kids to her parents farm, 2K miles away.

I started considering this again as an option, but I am clear now that this is not an option. She has to fight in court to move there. I will fight for keeping the kids close to me.

 

I will tell you this though, whatever those issues were which have built up her resentment... they MUST be addressed. These are the issues which have caused her emotional withdrawal, and as long as they are still present, she won't reengage. So, if you don't know what her beef is... you need to find out.

She is driven by resentment and anger.

The only thing that is left I think is her feeling that I am controlling by not talking about separation and not admitting that we are done.

 

[quote

You're 'the man on the ground'. You're the one who knows YOUR situation best. You're gonna have to call the ball on this one.

 

We have a court date. I told her, essentially agreeing with her, to go ahead with separation agreement. If this is what she wants, I should not be fighting so much. If she wants me out of the house, I will not accomodate this.

 

Yeah, they might be destroyed. But OTOH, they might just be blocked up by her resentments. Sometimes... when you clean up the resentments, the love can flow again.

Resentments are her big issue now. I have listened and acknowledged many times the problems we have had.

 

What I'm suggesting to you is that you split the difference on "tough love" until you've been able to identify and treat the source of the resentments. IOW, for actions which lead to divorce, you show some "tough love" in that you don't contribute to the destruction of your family.

Sure...

 

But... in "splitting the difference" you continue to be nice to her, fulfill whatever emotional needs she'll allow, be her friend, and show her what a terrific guy you are. Look good, smell good, be charming and FUN to be with. If you're not in counseling... go. This shows her that you've got a work ethic and that you're serious about improving yourself.

Yes. This is what I have been doing. I also booked individual counseling for me, in addition to marriage counseling.

 

You're not in a hurry are you? Why not use that time to impress her and show her all that she'll be missing if she loses you?

My recent hurry to get over all this was result of my disappointment after discovering the affair. Otherwise, no hurry at all. A few months in a difficult situation is nothing compared to many years to come.

 

She considers herself to be "separated", so yeah.. she's gonna be "acting single". It's up to you if you can handle that or not. But bear in mind, by not shutting her down when she brought this "trial separation" plan to you... you've tacitly agreed to it. It is what it is now. Those are the cards you're dealt in this hand.

I believed that she really needed time off and trial separation was good for both of us. I could have prevented this from happening and with much better results, at least financial.

 

The smarter course of action when she pulled the "we're separated because I say so" routine, was to flat out refuse, and then to file for divorce if she didn't immediately back down. But that's not what you did, and I don't see any benefits to back-peddling now.

Absolutely agree.

 

She's already stepped out of the marriage, and if you really thought she'd return at the point of an ultimatum, I don't think you'd be here posting at LS. I'm thinking with things this far gone, she's going to have to come back of her own accord. So, you need to show her that you're THE GUY if you want her back.

This is my conclusion after 2 moths of thinking, reading, and posting.

 

p.s. And remember, there are no guarantees. You can do EVERYTHING just right from this point on and she might still divorce you. There's alot one person can accomplish when attempting reconciliation, but in the end it takes TWO.

Yes.

[redblack66]

She's seems to be very interested in your "business" which means at some level she's still in engaged with you mentally and emotionally?

Very much so.

 

And, LJ's right, there's something that's not being communicated across this medium here ~ that we're not getting about the marriage and her?

 

IMHO? I really don't think its so much about you, and is about her own personal discontentment with herself and her life.

 

Big thing is she is missing family and wants to live in open spaces, not in the city. We can buy a farm where we live no problem.

She stayed 100% with two kids at home for 7 years. She feels that her life is passing by and she has not enjoyed it.

[Ladyjane14]

 

Big thing is she is missing family and wants to live in open spaces, not in the city. We can buy a farm where we live no problem.

She stayed 100% with two kids at home for 7 years. She feels that her life is passing by and she has not enjoyed it.

 

Refresh me on why it's not possible for you all to go together to her home town and take up farming as a family. (????)

[Ladyjane14]

She wants separation, and told me that I have been controlling again by refusing to talk about it. She wants separation of assets.

 

Separation of assets and domiciles = Divorce. You're just putting the proper terminology on it... it is SHE who has brought the conversation to the table.

 

I think you're on solid ground in pointing that out to her. It's patently unfair for her to "divorce" you in every way but on paper and expect you to remain entangled emotionally and financially in a defunct relationship.

 

She is driven by resentment and anger.

The only thing that is left I think is her feeling that I am controlling by not talking about separation and not admitting that we are done.

 

You don't have to. That's what divorce attorneys are for. Did you get your diploma in law? Have you passed your state's bar exam?

Simply tell her that you're not a lawyer and not equipped to act as one. However, you ARE a husband and father, and you're available to discuss whatever issues she'd like in THAT capacity.

 

Reverse babble.

Her accusation of "controlling behavior" is her way of justifying her withdrawal from the marriage as well as rationalizing her affair. It's "babble". You can gently deflate her reasoning by pointing out the basic truth... and then 'beating feet' out of the area. Don't stand toe-to-toe arguing back. You're just giving her more ammo at that point. Just stick a pin in her "rationalization", then excuse yourself. Go take out the trash, take the car to the carwash, or whatever.

[PWSX3]

When my W first moved out & we separated my W said all the same things as most have. I love you but I'm not in love, I need my space, bla,bla,bla. She said I was controlling, I did this, I did that.

 

It wasn't until afterwards that I started to look at "MYSELF" and understand yes I was doing some of these things, but there were reasons I was doing some of these things & she was part of that reason.

 

It sounds like you are understanding that yes there are things that you could improve on & that there are things that "you" want to change for you, but right now she will not see those changes, or believe you will change because she is so focused on herself.

She is trying to find any & all excuses for doing what she is doing, it doesn't matter if it is the right thing to do or not, she hasn't thought that far ahead. She hasn't looked ahead far enough to wonder; what if I am making a mistake & what if he does change what would it be like then?

 

I feel that is why she is still wanting to know what is happening in your life, she is still just trying to keep that door open just in case her perfect world idea she has doesn't work.

 

Your feelings & thoughts will go back & forth a lot, yes I want a divorce, yes I want a separation, etc. but keep using this time to learn. Reading books really helped me understand that yes I did some things wrong & part of it was because the way I was raised & looked at how marriage should be, but I got that information from how my folks lived.

Things are a lot different now so we have to adjust to the now & not what it was like in the day.

 

Now that we are back together I really feel that I learned more & got more out of our separation then the W did & she was the one that wanted it.

 

Like I said before it sounds like you have found some things in your life that you would like to change, improve, make better so work on those, see what it does & then see what happens.

[ilmw]

When my W first moved out & we separated my W said all the same things as most have. I love you but I'm not in love, I need my space, bla,bla,bla. She said I was controlling, I did this, I did that.

 

It wasn't until afterwards that I started to look at "MYSELF" and understand yes I was doing some of these things, but there were reasons I was doing some of these things & she was part of that reason.

 

It sounds like you are understanding that yes there are things that you could improve on & that there are things that "you" want to change for you, but right now she will not see those changes, or believe you will change because she is so focused on herself.

She is trying to find any & all excuses for doing what she is doing, it doesn't matter if it is the right thing to do or not, she hasn't thought that far ahead. She hasn't looked ahead far enough to wonder; what if I am making a mistake & what if he does change what would it be like then?

 

I feel that is why she is still wanting to know what is happening in your life, she is still just trying to keep that door open just in case her perfect world idea she has doesn't work.

 

Your feelings & thoughts will go back & forth a lot, yes I want a divorce, yes I want a separation, etc. but keep using this time to learn. Reading books really helped me understand that yes I did some things wrong & part of it was because the way I was raised & looked at how marriage should be, but I got that information from how my folks lived.

Things are a lot different now so we have to adjust to the now & not what it was like in the day.

 

Now that we are back together I really feel that I learned more & got more out of our separation then the W did & she was the one that wanted it.

 

Like I said before it sounds like you have found some things in your life that you would like to change, improve, make better so work on those, see what it does & then see what happens.

 

Good post Pw

 

Never change for someone else.. only change for you! I think we all need to kich are own butts once and a while:p

[Gunny376]

A friend of mine that I use to work with (young guy) moved from rural Alabama to Chicago, meet a local gal and got married and brought her back to rurual Alabama.

 

I told him: "David? Either one or two things going to happen to you in the next year. One? Your going to get divorced. Two, Your going to move back to Chicago."

 

Last I heard from hm? He's getting accustomed to living in Chcago.

 

Me? I've literally lived all over the World ~ to include four years in Japan.

 

Per my training and experience in the Marine (Logistics) I could easily move to a port city and command a six figure income loading out planes, trains and ships and coordinating the movemnet of goods, equipment.

 

I'm where I'm at, working my "what-ever" job becuase of my chlidren and GS. I don't need nor want the stress, the long hours, the never-ending phone calls at all hours of the day, being tied to a cell phone, etc. The number one reason my XW listed for divorce? I was a "work-aholic"

 

If I learned nothing else from my divorce? There's much more to life than working, money, and trying to climb up the food chain. I caught my happy azz a bus to Mexico and now I just chill out

 

I don't have everything I want ~ who ever does? But I've got everything I need, and by comparision to most people in the World, I'm filthy rich.

 

Women as a rule outlive men? Why? The number one reason? STRESS. A lot of that is self-induced, women are much better at dealing with stress, and multitasking than men.

 

Improve yourself? Absolutely, but it also sounds as though you might want to re-think your priorties in life. Its not all about money and possessions.

 

I'm curious what your wife's response would be if you came home and told her that you were going to sell the place and move back to her parents?

 

My SIL was in the Army and a qualified, trained, certified, experienced ATC (Air Traiffic Controller) who's initial plan was to get out of the Army and get a job with the FAA, making Big Money.

 

My daughter told him, "You do what you want and have to do, but your son and I will be right here, because I'm not leaving my Mama and Daddy!" ~ and by God she meant what she said! (I raised her to say what she meant and mean what she said! She's been very "hard-wired" in her thinking over the years! )

 

Last I heard? He likes his job working at the nuclear plant?

[redblack66]

Refresh me on why it's not possible for you all to go together to her home town and take up farming as a family. (????)

 

I am a professional that cannot take farming easily. I wish I was a medical doctor that can work anywhere.

I am willing to move to a city that is 3-4 hour drive from their place,

scale down in my career, but she is not sure she wants to live with me.

[bestadvisor]

Redblack, keep in mind that when it comes to divorce or seperation agreement, she is NOT your friend. It will be advesarial. You better protect your own interest (financially). Don't let her have the house; she's the one who cheated. Don't let her have big chunk of your assets; while you're working, she was sleeping with another man. Don't let her have it easy; she was the one who made you miserable.

 

If she wants a divorce, make sure she suffers financially. Don't be mean to her on the surface (I don't need to tell you that), just be smart financially and legally. You mentioned about putting her on the street...com'on now, you know that's not going to happened; she will always have a place to stay at her parents' house.

 

Continue your kindness to her in a non-monetary or financial way.

[redblack66]

See, your wife has some kind of beef with you, and through your posts, I've been unable to determine what kind of changes she's looking for. There's a gap in the information where we're not getting a peek into the marriage itself and what dynamics were in play before she checked out.

 

OK. I will type a bit more. I really need your guidance guys. You have been more helpful than marriage counselors. Please be patient and read.

 

I am in a typical situation. I worked really hard. When I came home

5-6pm, I did not spent that much time with kids and wife. One reason

is she would get angry over little things, and I would just withdraw.

If there is a birthday party or event, typically before we go there, she would get angry over something, and again, I would say why would I go and I don't go.

 

Another issue has been finances. I asked my wife so many times to find at least some kind of job, not even part-time. Anything. She never understood me, and I never understood her wanting to be all the time with the kids. Really all the time, believe me. I don't think this is even healthy for the kids, when the mother is totally with them, not even 2-3 hours without them.

 

A big blow came when the second child was born. She insisted for a midwife, I never agreed, but finally agreed. She gave birth in the hospital, but things went quite wrong. The daughter was not breathing and had to be in neonatal for a week. The midwife did not know what to do, and a doctor did not appear immediately.

After this event, I thought nothing can scare me in life and nothing really matters. I was just praying day and night that she comes out OK. There were all kinds of dangers. She is just fine, but could have had brain damage or who knows what else.

With all my stupidity, I told her after few months that she should have listened to me.

 

Several times I did not go for Christmas to her parents with them. Terrible what I did. However, each of these tri[COLOR=black]ps[/COLOR] is over $2,000, and I could not understand why we would not put the money into other use and spend the holidays in hour house. She was right for going and blaming me. I was right for saying 'Look, I work so hard, I would like to spend the holidays with my kids in our house.' Since 2003, we have had only one Christmas in our house.

 

I have also battled depression, unhappy with my work, really unhappy, and so on. You can extrapolate and make your conclusion without me writing more.

 

She accumulated all this and never really said much about it. In July I was on a work related trip in Europe, she was at her parents. When they came in August, she wanted to go back. Apparently, she felt emotionally close to this guy helping the family. He was happy, content, free, and so on. I warned her that this is an emotional affair and they are more dangerous than sexual affairs.

 

When she wanted to go back, I just colla[COLOR=black]ps[/COLOR]ed for 2 weeks; the usual begging and pleading, etc. that affirmed her decision. However, her point was that she needed help with the kids and I should consider this as a sabbatical or an extended vacation. Week after they went, she tells me I am free to move on and start dating.

 

Then I said I would like her to bring the kids back. She did not listen.

I contacted a lawyer who send her a letter to do that, and if not, we were going to court. She did not believe, then there was a court motion. They arrived in the morning before we had to appear before the judge.

She wanted me out of the house, but the judge did not throw me out.

I was described by her lawyer as practically a [COLOR=black]ps[/COLOR]ychopath that is a real danger for everybody, let alone the kids and her. For my relief, the judge did not believe that.

 

I did not want to have anything to do with her at the time, but feelings resurrected and I thought better give it another try to save the marriage.

 

She is VERY mad about what I did, as I destroyed her dream for a new life and kids (without a father). 2K miles is not for a good relation with kids. She does not trust me and even afraid of me for what I did, going to court to bring them back. This was unspeakable?

I did what I had to do. If I waited a few more weeks, I had no chances of getting the kids, as they establish residency.

 

So, this was a cowardly way of ending a marriage, as far as I can see.

Ironically, I gave her a chance to end it in an appropriate way.

 

She claimed that nobody is in her life and nobody will be for a long time, until I discovered her relation with the Australian guy, who is in Australia. He may come back next summer, but I doubt it.

 

I have been helpful around the house, spending much more time with the kids and so on. She finds it hypocritical. How do I interpret this?

I say I am doing this for myself. I realize what I have done, I feel I want to do what I am doing, and that's all. She thinks I have a hidden agenda when I am so helpful. I want to go back to the person I was.

 

She is confused and worried only about her happiness only at the moment. She has been the person with the highest morals I have met in my life, very devoted to the family, and very honest. After all this,

I do not see how I can trust a woman. I feel really, really bad about what happened.

 

Our marriage was in danger. I realized this while I was in Europe and was planning to work on it. In the meantime this guy was in the picture. Really bad timing, or God knows what he is doing.

 

More to follow as I reply to other postings. I really need your guidance in the next days.

Many thanks and many thanks in advance.

[redblack66]

Separation of assets and domiciles = Divorce. You're just putting the proper terminology on it... it is SHE who has brought the conversation to the table.

Her idea of separation is I agree voluntarily on conditions I do not accept and move out of the house. This will not happen.

In many other cases, the wife makes arrangements to move out, but does not disappear with the kids to parent so far away.

 

I think you're on solid ground in pointing that out to her. It's patently unfair for her to "divorce" you in every way but on paper and expect you to remain entangled emotionally and financially in a defunct relationship.

 

This is the reality.

 

You don't have to. That's what divorce attorneys are for. Did you get your diploma in law? Have you passed your state's bar exam?

Simply tell her that you're not a lawyer and not equipped to act as one. However, you ARE a husband and father, and you're available to discuss whatever issues she'd like in THAT capacity.

Very GOOD point. I will tell her when I get home that I can discuss issues as a father and a husband, but not a lawyer.

 

Her accusation of "controlling behavior" is her way of justifying her withdrawal from the marriage as well as rationalizing her affair. It's "babble". You can gently deflate her reasoning by pointing out the basic truth... and then 'beating feet' out of the area. Don't stand toe-to-toe arguing back. You're just giving her more ammo at that point. Just stick a pin in her "rationalization", then excuse yourself. Go take out the trash, take the car to the carwash, or whatever.

 

 

This is my BIGGEST problem: she always brings up the past, and I feel this is her way of justifying what she is doing. Most of the time I listen and say 'I understand' or 'I am sorry', but recently, I told her let talk about the kids only.

[bestadvisor]

He may come back next summer, but I doubt it.

 

I have been helpful around the house, spending much more time with the kids and so on. I say I am doing this for myself. I realize what I have done, I feel I want to do what I am doing, and that's all. She thinks I have a hidden agenda when I am so helpful. I want to go back to the person I was.

 

Why do you think this guy will not come back? He seems to be interested in more fun, otherwise, he won't be in contact with your wife through emails and phones. If you're right that he won't be coming back, I think your marriage has a much better (still not great) chance of surviving.

 

Continue with what you're doing, meaning improving yourself, be kind to her, etc. and assure her that you're not doing this with an agenda and that you're doing this to be a better person, a better husband whether it work out between the two of your or not. Let her know that you want to be a better husband for whoever your future wife would be.

[redblack66]

When my W first moved out & we separated my W said all the same things as most have. I love you but I'm not in love, I need my space, bla,bla,bla. She said I was controlling, I did this, I did that.

 

More or less the same situation.

 

It wasn't until afterwards that I started to look at "MYSELF" and understand yes I was doing some of these things, but there were reasons I was doing some of these things & she was part of that reason.

Exactly. My wife is a big part of the reason what I have done. I wonder if she will ever understand. She is very stubborn and thinks she is always right.

 

She started reading relationship books, which I have been reading, much slower than me. She is trying to figure out what she did wrong and prepare for her dream man in Australia. BS.

 

It sounds like you are understanding that yes there are things that you could improve on & that there are things that "you" want to change for you, but right now she will not see those changes, or believe you will change because she is so focused on herself.

She is trying to find any & all excuses for doing what she is doing, it doesn't matter if it is the right thing to do or not, she hasn't thought that far ahead. She hasn't looked ahead far enough to wonder; what if I am making a mistake & what if he does change what would it be like then?

 

She even asked one of our friends if I am different for real. Apparently my friend did not say anything and just looked down. This friend may have her own way of being jealous at us and not wishing us well.

 

I feel that is why she is still wanting to know what is happening in your life, she is still just trying to keep that door open just in case her perfect world idea she has doesn't work.

I believe so.

 

Your feelings & thoughts will go back & forth a lot, yes I want a divorce, yes I want a separation, etc. but keep using this time to learn. Reading books really helped me understand that yes I did some things wrong & part of it was because the way I was raised & looked at how marriage should be, but I got that information from how my folks lived.

Things are a lot different now so we have to adjust to the now & not what it was like in the day.

 

I am just keeping my work going. The rest of the time I have been reading like crazy and thinking, thinking all the time.

 

Now that we are back together I really feel that I learned more & got more out of our separation then the W did & she was the one that wanted it.

 

If we are together again, I truly expect the same scenario.

 

Like I said before it sounds like you have found some things in your life that you would like to change, improve, make better so work on those, see what it does & then see what happens.

 

I am working on myself big time, to be ready for my next relation whether with her or somebody else.

 

My feeling in the last months is that I have been a month behind. For example, I know today what I should have done a month ago. Similar experience?

[redblack66]

Why do you think this guy will not come back?

He may come, but I feel he may not. He is 28 and looking after a 36 year old with two kids may not be that fun. I hope he finds a girlfriend during that time. Otherwise, he may be a loser if he can't.

Although my wife is good looking, she is not a person that can

put a sexual spell on somebody so somebody can run to her just for sex and fun. Sure there is the emotional connection too.

 

Also, her father is quite aware of the situation and he may have to stay at there house.

 

However, if he comes and my wife is there, then the hope is 0 for saving things. It is not much more than 0 now.

 

Continue with what you're doing, meaning improving yourself, be kind to her, etc. and assure her that you're not doing this with an agenda and that you're doing this to be a better person, a better husband whether it work out between the two of your or not. Let her know that you want to be a better husband for whoever your future wife would be.

 

 

Excellent points. I have been OK, but went ballistic when I discovered the affair. Yes, I will be happy, gentle, and considerate.

I will help as much as I can with kids without pushing. However,

if things get nasty through lawyers, I will stand up for myself and will not worry much if she feels disrespected. I will make sure that I am respetful.

[redblack66]

And what LJ's trying to subtlely lead you to? Is walking the razor's edge between being an complete and total azzhat, and a lay-down?

 

The best example I've seen of this has been Perry and ilmw (Perry = PSWX3)

 

She's seems to be very interested in your "business" which means at some level she's still in engaged with you mentally and emotionally?

She is. She told one of our friends that she loves me and cares about me. This happened when I went on my pseudo-date, i.e. had a dinner with a female friend. I think she was concerned.

 

What she's wanting is change in you, herself, her life. etc. And granted? She's got her fantasy life tangled up with her real (reality) life.

Sure. Her fantasy of being free does not match with reality when

there are two kids that will need money for education etc. and bills have to be paid. Period.

 

And, LJ's right, there's something that's not being communicated across this medium here ~ that we're not getting about the marriage and her?

I just posted earlier about it. Our main issue in my opinion is that she wants to impose her way all the time, and I am not an easy person to be controlled. If I do something, frequently she would interfere. Believe me, I am not a damn person, with a LOT of experience, and I know how to do most of the things (except relations). When somebody is lecturing you, then I do not feel that good. And then things spiral down.

 

IMHO? I really don't think its so much about you, and is about her own personal discontentment with herself and her life.

Yes, she is discontent. She wants to live the life she grew up with. Fine. However, the reality is there are two children, I am the main breath winner, my job is such that I cannot move here and there easily. I support a son from a previous marriage, and I just have to pay the bills. Simple. She said once, why don't you pack and come to the farm? No job there.

 

 

Jmargel and I are on the otherside of this. Our experiences have taught us to be hard and to set the bar high for the women in our life.

I could see myself doing this with a girlfriend, but I guess I am more committed to let things disappear now.

 

I'm telling you RB, Life's just too freaking short! And I know you're hanging tough more so for the sake of the children than any other reason? But, at some point you've got to have some relief, respect, and peace of mind.

Completely understood. My problem in the last for months is surviving. My biggest problem is smoking too much and not eating

very regularly. And worrying too much about the future.

 

I've been married, I've shacked up, and I've been single. Far better to be single and alone ~ than married and miserable.

Truth is many times I thought myself that I should get out of this marriage. One reason is unhappiness because of her desire to change me and make me the man she wants. Another reason is sex has not been that good, but I hung because of many other great qualities.

 

 

I don't want a woman because I need her ~ I want to need her because I love her and she loves me!

 

True.

[redblack66]

Gunny is right, there is a difference between want and need.

 

The thing is that I want to ask is these changes that your making you should not do that for her. But do it for you. Because they will come a day when she will want to come back. When that day comes you will have reached a level of clarity,

 

I have realized I cannot live the life I have been living in the last few years: unhappy with my work, everyday duties, etc. Gloomy, complaining, not smiling, not helping. Now I am doing everything I can do to get out of this existence.

 

It is very tough, when I am crashed emotionally and physically. It is difficult to apply clear judgment, but I am trying.

 

Now the thing is she says all those changes wont last. See she's indecisive right there, when she's finally out. She'll regret it. But by then you'll have a good new woman right there for you, and it wont be her.

Unfortunately, this is a likely scenario. I have the fortune or misfortune to have been with a few women before and I would say I understand something about life. Too bad missed this one.

 

If she was really serious about wanting you back she'd make the steps to actively reconsile. But if she's not . Keep doing what your doing. Find someone else. Show her that you are moving on. Let her stew in it. lol.

I told her once that after we are completely out, I will find a 24 year old, and she (my wife) will be all over me. Then she asked me if I indeed had such, I joked about it, she believed it, and her fase was stoned. This is a high school game, but I just wanted to see how she would react.

 

She would consider reconsiliation if we deal with the ownership of the house and me moving close to her parents. Ownership means her getting more than she should have out of the house.

 

In addition, there are several affairs of mine in my wife's head. She sees them all over the place. I am completely clean of affairs.

[bestadvisor]

In addition, there are several affairs of mine in my wife's head. She sees them all over the place. I am completely clean of affairs.

 

Are those affairs in her head before she started her affair?

 

Come clean in a serious, honest, and truthful manner that you never had an affair while married to her. She deserves this information to make one of the biggest decisions in her life.

[redblack66]

Improve yourself? Absolutely, but it also sounds as though you might want to re-think your priorties in life. Its not all about money and possessions.

 

Truth is money is not on my radar. I make enough to live without suffering.

Today I was thinking that when somebody is terribly ill or family is broken, nothing really matters.

 

I'm curious what your wife's response would be if you came home and told her that you were going to sell the place and move back to her parents?

She would say that this does not mean that she wants to live with me.

 

My SIL was in the Army and a qualified, trained, certified, experienced ATC (Air Traiffic Controller) who's initial plan was to get out of the Army and get a job with the FAA, making Big Money.

 

Well, I sacrificed twice the big money and perhaps happiness

(my dream job, my dream place to live) for staying close to my son from my previous marriage. This meant my wife sacrificed too. Looking back, I could have been better off if I moved away, but I just could not. So, to help my older son, now it is uncertain how my relation with my other two kids will be, let alone family.

So sad, and I do not know how I wa punished in this life or I just punished myself.

[redblack66]

Are those affairs in her head before she started her affair?

 

Yes, before that she told me several times that I have slept with X, Y, Z.

 

Come clean in a serious, honest, and truthful manner that you never had an affair while married to her. She deserves this information to make one of the biggest decisions in her life.

 

I have communicated this information in many ways. A couple of weeks ago we were driving and I told her:

"One thing I am proud of myself during these years is that I have been absolutely faithful to you"

 

I have tried to convey this information in other ways. For example jokingly "Find a lie detector and I will pass it" We are in Canada,

so I don't know if these things are used her.

 

Do you have any suggestion how to transmit such information in the most effective way?

[bestadvisor]

 

I have tried to convey this information in other ways. For example jokingly "Find a lie detector and I will pass it" We are in Canada,

so I don't know if these things are used her.

 

Do you have any suggestion how to transmit such information in the most effective way?

 

It's so much easier and guilt free for a spouse to cheat if she knew that her spouse has cheated on her before. I hate to say this, but you should have done this (make sure she doens't think you're cheating) long time ago instead of some mind games.

 

Sit down with her and tell her seriously (NOT jokingly) and sincerely, that you have never cheated on her and because of that, what she did with the OM truly hurt you deeply. And, then ask her if she believe you. If her answer is "no," or if she has any doubt, get a phone book or an internet print out with a list of lie detectors and ask her to pick one and that you will be willing to schedule an appointment right there right then.

 

Tell her that you're doing this for the sake of the children, because of them, she will always be in your life and she needs to know the truth for future relations/interactions with you regards to the kids (or, in your perspective, for her to make an informed decision about the divorce).

[redblack66]

I just posted quite a bit, and now I have to explain my next step.

I have been away since Tuesday and will back on Monday. I called to speak to the kids, and did not talk much to my wife, she did not want to talk either. She asked me how things are; I said I have calmed down. (I got angry when I discovered her affair)

She asked if I wanted to talk about our situation; I said it is not a conversation for over the phone. I asked if she wanted to talk, she said let's talk when you come.

She was a bit hostile; I believe she just talked to her fantasy man.

 

I spent the time thinking, reading, and in particular LS. This is what I am planning to tell her.

 

1. I will not let the kids go and live permanently so far away from me. This is out of question. (I entertained this idea, but now I am sure what I want.)

 

2. I will not move out of the house. I do not see why; and I do not see how I can tell my kids 'Daddy loves you but have to go to live somewhere else.' (Recently, my son wanted to sleep with me in the basement. So sweet. She has a problem with this.)

 

3. I am not filing for divorce.

(In my emotions, I wanted to file for divorce, but I will not file in the near future. Tough love will not work here.)

 

4. I am able and willing to do many things for you, but I will not help you destroy our family.

 

In the meantime I will be nice and keep dealing with my issues. I just bought nice gifts for the kids an d a gift for her. This is a big NO, I know.

 

WHAT do you think about my plan.

 

As far as the OM is in the radar screen, she will not be out of her daydreaming. I do not see how to eliminate him, and perhaps this is not my business.

 

Many thanks and looking forward to your replies.

[redblack66]

It's so much easier and guilt free for a spouse to cheat if she knew that her spouse has cheated on her before. I hate to say this, but you should have done this (make sure she doens't think you're cheating) long time ago instead of some mind games.

 

Exactly. I have been childish in the past. In particular, after not having sexual relation for a week or two, I would joke that I could easily pick up a woman. So perhaps I should not blame her and beat myself for this happening to me.

 

Sit down with her and tell her seriously (NOT jokingly) and sincerely, that you have never cheated on her and because of that, what she did with the OM truly hurt you deeply. And, then ask her if she believe you. If her answer is "no," or if she has any doubt, get a phone book or an internet print out with a list of lie detectors and ask her to pick one and that you will be willing to schedule an appointment right there right then.

 

Very good ideas!

 

Tell her that you're doing this for the sake of the children, because of them, she will always be in your life and she needs to know the truth for future relations/interactions with you regards to the kids (or, in your perspective, for her to make an informed decision about the divorce).

 

 

Very well said.