separated in the same house; would wife come around

[redblack66]

This is my "compact" version of 180, based on LJ's post.

-------

 

* Be

o Patient

o Confident

o Strong

o Cheerful

o Outgoing

o Attractive

o Scarce or short on words

 

* Do not be

o Desperate

o Needy

o Nasty

o Angry

o Cold

 

* Do not

o Pursue

o Reason

o Chase

o Beg

o Plead

o Implore

o Follow her around the house

o Point out good points in marriage

o Encourage talk about the future

o Ask for reassurances

o Schedule dates together

o Sit around waiting on your spouse

o Ask for her whereabouts

 

* Back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out

 

* Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

 

* Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel

 

* No matter what you are feeling TODAY, show her happiness and contentment.

 

* Act as if you are moving on with your life

 

* Make your partner think that you have had an wakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without her

 

* Put all questions about marriage on hold, until she wants to talk about it

 

* Take care of yourself

o Exercise

o Sleep

o Laugh

o Focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil

[bestadvisor]

I agree with your post above.

 

Not only did the mysterious/secretcy thing not working for you in the past, it backfired, didn't it? If you continue down this road with mysteries, you will lose. How can you compete in this department with a foreign guy who's culture, background, and everything about him is a total mystery to her? You can provide her something different; something more solid and that's a comfort of a home.

 

You're want to listen to LJ's point because that's the easier route. It's so much more fun and easier to play the mysterious guy hiding the ball. But, at the end of the day if that's what you do and play, she will compare you to him and see no difference, except that he is more attentive to her needs and you're not along with other faults of yours.

[redblack66]

I agree with your post above.

 

Not only did the mysterious/secretcy thing not working for you in the past, it backfired, didn't it? If you continue down this road with mysteries, you will lose. How can you compete in this department with a foreign guy who's culture, background, and everything about him is a total mystery to her? You can provide her something different; something more solid and that's a comfort of a home.

 

You're want to listen to LJ's point because that's the easier route. It's so much more fun and easier to play the mysterious guy hiding the ball. But, at the end of the day if that's what you do and play, she will compare you to him and see no difference, except that he is more attentive to her needs and you're not along with other faults of yours.

 

 

Good points. Yes, it is important for her to see the comfort of the home and the family life. She is not seeing it now. Yes, mystery may not work. However, I cannot be the person she has seen in the last few years either. This is one reason I changed my outlook a bit.

Another reason is that I became quite helpful around the house and the kids. I am still having difficulties getting to her emotional needs.

And perhaps she does now want to open up. Also, she is stubborn in her idea to get the separation she wants.

 

BTW, do you feel a person in her positions struggles internally with guilt. My feeling is "yes", but she also tries to justify in her mind what she has done and currently doing. The more available I am for her anger, the more I feel she is justifying her choices and actions.

[bestadvisor]

do you feel a person in her positions struggles internally with guilt. My feeling is "yes", but she also tries to justify in her mind what she has done and currently doing. The more available I am for her anger, the more I feel she is justifying her choices and actions.

 

Yes, she is struggling inside big time. Because of the struggle with guilt, that's why she needs to find justification to ease her guilt by looking for faults on your part.

 

Admit fault, but don't be "availabe" for her anger. Find some creative way to let her know that no matter how bad she had been to you, you would never ever cheat on her. She needs to feel guilty in order for her to turn around and that cannot be accomplished by you pushing her to feel guilty, she has to realize it herself. That's why I keep suggesting you to do my advice 1 above. She needs to know that you've never cheated on her before.

[redblack66]

Yes, she is struggling inside big time. Because of the struggle with guilt, that's why she needs to find justification to ease her guilty by looking for faults on your part.

 

Admit fault, but don't be "availabe" for her anger.

 

Yes, I have admitted fault, but I was quite available for her anger.

Not late to switch and be elusive when it comes up.

 

 

Find some creative way to let her know that no matter how bad she had been to you, you would never ever cheat on her. She needs to feel guilty in order for her to turn around and that cannot be accomplished by you pushing her to feel guilty, she has to realize it herself. That's why I keep suggesting you to do my advice 1 above. She needs to know that you've never cheated on her before.

 

Yes, talking about her wrong doings does not accomplish much. I have completely ignored them in the last 10 days. Yes, I will convince her that I have never cheated and I cannot do this until divorce is final.

[Ladyjane14]

You're want to listen to LJ's point because that's the easier route.

 

Frankly, there's nothing "easier" about it. Easy is pushing and shoving, but it seldom brings us what we want.

 

What you have failed to recognize here, BA... is that these two people are LEGALLY SEPARATED. It's unfortunate to be in a position to have to compete for one's own spouse, but it is what it is.

[redblack66]

Frankly, there's nothing "easier" about it. Easy is pushing and shoving, but it seldom brings us what we want.

 

An easy solution would be for me to say: you know I do not want to be the second man. So, I am out.

 

What you have failed to recognize here, BA... is that these two people are LEGALLY SEPARATED. It's unfortunate to be in a position to have to compete for one's own spouse, but it is what it is.

 

Not only unfortunate, I find it bizarre. I guess, if I talk about pride and self esteem, I should have been out some time ago. Well, we'll fight until the end

[redblack66]

Frankly, there's nothing "easier" about it. Easy is pushing and shoving, but it seldom brings us what we want.

 

An easy solution would be for me to say: you know I do not want to be the second man. So, I am out.

 

What you have failed to recognize here, BA... is that these two people are LEGALLY SEPARATED. It's unfortunate to be in a position to have to compete for one's own spouse, but it is what it is.

Not only unfortunate, I find it bizarre. I guess, if I talk about pride and self esteem, I should have been out some time ago. Well, we'll fight until the end :-)

[bestadvisor]

Frankly, there's nothing "easier" about it. Easy is pushing and shoving, but it seldom brings us what we want.

 

Are you trying to put words in my mouth? I said "easier," NOT easiest or easy. Your suggestion of playing mysterious is easier than what I have suggested and I never said that it was easy either way.

 

Their being legally seperated has little to do with how he should win her back. It certainly has almost nothing to do with allowing himself to give her a hug and a kiss on her forhead if circumstances allow nor does it have anything to do with him being honest about his faithfulness to her in the past XX years.

[bestadvisor]

What you have failed to recognize here, BA... is that these two people are LEGALLY SEPARATED. It's unfortunate to be in a position to have to compete for one's own spouse, but it is what it is.

 

What you have failed to realize, LJ14, is that the neither the judge or the law is going to penalize or punish him for his kindness, his hug, or his kiss on her forhead toward his wife. Yes, they are legally sepearated, but, she is still his legal wife. He won't be put in jail, put on probation, or labled as the bad guy for doing any of those.

 

You have to recognize that whatever I have suggested so far will not jeorpardize his chance of getting child custody nor will it destroy his chance of reducing spousal support if it ever comes to that point.

[Ladyjane14]

What you have failed to realize, LJ14, is that the neither the judge or the law is going to penalize or punish him for his kindness, his hug, or his kiss on her forhead toward his wife. Yes, they are legally sepearated, but, she is still his legal wife. He won't be put in jail, put on probation, or labled as the bad guy for doing any of those.

 

You have to recognize that whatever I have suggested so far will not jeorpardize his chance of getting child custody nor will it destroy his chance of reducing spousal support if it ever comes to that point.

 

Look, I'm not going to get into it with you. Ask anybody... I'm not one to do a whole lot of arguing back and forth. This guy isn't a moron. I'm thinking he knows full well that if he goes into any kind of custody hearing with his wife, and she produces a slavering love letter where he drools on about how great a wife and mom she is... it's gonna hurt his case.

 

Anyway, if you're looking for somebody to go tit-for-tat with you, I'm gonna have to call "No Joy" on that.

 

(A little unsolicited advice from me to you though... You've already been pretty much pasted in another forum for being pushy with people. I doubt it'll make you any more friends here than it did there.)

[bestadvisor]

Anyway, if you're looking for somebody to go tit-for-tat with you, I'm gonna have to call "No Joy" on that.

 

(A little unsolicited advice from me to you though... You've already been pretty much pasted in another forum for being pushy with people. I doubt it'll make you any more friends here than it did there.)

 

What you've mentioned above is cleary and completely irrelevant to redblack's situation and I suggest you to keep that to yourself.

[redblack66]

My wife and kids were visiting her aunt about 3 hour drive from us.

They came back today, and she was in her regular foul, angry mood.

 

She did not say hi, but needed help unloading the car.

I bathed the kids, but she had to tell me how to do it and it was time for me to learn. A comment was made that I did not see them on the weekend so I better spend time (sure, no problem).

I just smiled at her and did not say much and did not initiate any conversations tonight (which I find amazing).

 

How can one explain this gloomy, angry mode, when the person has been usually very cheerful in her life???

 

My son told me that I am the best father in the world, which really touched me. I asked him to go shopping tomorrow for mommy's birthday, but he does not want to. I asked him why, his response was 'just forget it.'

[bestadvisor]

Just ask her in a caring voice: "What's wrong? Anything I can do?"

 

You need to ask questions to find out what's wrong and what's going on and that applies to your son as well. Don't take "just forget it" as an answer.

 

If you're still caring and nice despite her angry mood will increase the chance to wake her up and recognize that you've changed.

[Ladyjane14]

How can one explain this gloomy, angry mode, when the person has been usually very cheerful in her life???

 

Right now, hard as it is to hear... your wife is wishing she didn't have to deal with you. Of course she's not happy to see you; you're thwarting her by standing in the way of her fantasy life. You represent the realities in life, and she blames you for her unhappiness.

 

But you can't absorb her moods. The fact that she's going around angry and gloomy should just be a given right now. It means she's not getting her way. It can even mean that your "Plan A" is working on her.

 

Now, you've still got your own choices to make. Like I've told you before... you can always call your attorney and make a plan to end this thing. In fact, having your "Plan B" ready to roll out at a moment's notice could potentially serve you well.

 

But if you're going to stay in for a while longer, then you can't let her mood alter yours. She's going to be frustrated and acting out. If she's forwardly nasty to you though... look her right in the eye and tell her she's the one who wanted to be "roommates", and that you expect the same courtesy she'd give to any other stranger who's splitting the bills with her. Make sure the kids are out of ear-shot when you tell her that.

 

On another subject, have you given any more though to compromise solutions? I still think it's possible to "sweeten the pot" a bit more. You had mentioned possibly buying a farm in your area. If what she's looking for is farming in her hometown, and you're wanting to stay there in the area where your oldest boy is... it seems like an even compromise. Possibly this is something you can put up on the negotiations table. (????)

 

Believe it or not... IF she snaps out of this and returns to the marriage in a meaningful way, she's unlikely to really identify with her thought process while "in the fog". Former waywards are often quite grateful at the stalwartness of their betrayed mates, and can make terrific partners post-recovery. So, there IS potential here for all this to end up being worth the trouble.

 

Look at it this way, should reconciliation occur, all the new skills you each learned during that process stay with you and, when put into practice correctly, are incorporated into the new dynamics of the relationship.

 

 

p.s. I think if it were me... I'd take up a "whistling while I work" attitude.

Your wife hasn't earned your attention in a positive way... so I wouldn't be offering a whole lot in the way of solicitous comforting. My mate would have to at least engage me in order to receive that kind of attention. I'd just be going about my business like I couldn't be bothered to notice her gloom.

[redblack66]

Right now, hard as it is to hear... your wife is wishing she didn't have to deal with you. Of course she's not happy to see you; you're thwarting her by standing in the way of her fantasy life. You represent the realities in life, and she blames you for her unhappiness.

 

But you can't absorb her moods. The fact that she's going around angry and gloomy should just be a given right now. It means she's not getting her way. It can even mean that your "Plan A" is working on her.

 

I hope it is working somehow ;-)

 

Now, you've still got your own choices to make. Like I've told you before... you can always call your attorney and make a plan to end this thing. In fact, having your "Plan B" ready to roll out at a moment's notice could potentially serve you well.

 

Could be. I will do a lot of thinking and research before I hit with a surprising Plan B.

 

But if you're going to stay in for a while longer, then you can't let her mood alter yours. She's going to be frustrated and acting out. If she's forwardly nasty to you though... look her right in the eye and tell her she's the one who wanted to be "roommates", and that you expect the same courtesy she'd give to any other stranger who's splitting the bills with her. Make sure the kids are out of ear-shot when you tell her that.

 

This morning she was grumpy, and I was going happily with my business, and joking with kids. I did not initiate a conversation, except 'Good morning'. I bought on the weekend a silver necklace for myself, never done this myself before.

Her reaction was 'Oh, my God'. Then after a pause, 'Can we talk in the other room'? I said cheerfully we are freaking roommates. Then she says 'Are we roomates?' Go figure it.

 

I told her I have reserved a restaurant tomorrow at 5:00. She tells me that she has decided to allow me to take her for her birthday. Then she tells me I should have asked her which restaurant. I say (in a funny way) 'Alpha males don't ask, they tell. I have reserved a nice place'.

And I go on with doing my stuff. So this morning we laughed big time about my necklace.

 

On another subject, have you given any more though to compromise solutions? I still think it's possible to "sweeten the pot" a bit more. You had mentioned possibly buying a farm in your area. If what she's looking for is farming in her hometown, and you're wanting to stay there in the area where your oldest boy is... it seems like an even compromise. Possibly this is something you can put up on the negotiations table. (????)

She is not ready for this yet.

 

Believe it or not... IF she snaps out of this and returns to the marriage in a meaningful way, she's unlikely to really identify with her thought process while "in the fog". Former waywards are often quite grateful at the stalwartness of their betrayed mates, and can make terrific partners post-recovery. So, there IS potential here for all this to end up being worth the trouble.

 

It is not I don't believe it. I am 100% sure that if she comes around we will be a very strong couple, and she will thank me forever for standing up and fighting for this.

 

Look at it this way, should reconciliation occur, all the new skills you each learned during that process stay with you and, when put into practice correctly, are incorporated into the new dynamics of the relationship.

 

Yes.

 

p.s. I think if it were me... I'd take up a "whistling while I work" attitude.

Your wife hasn't earned your attention in a positive way... so I wouldn't be offering a whole lot in the way of solicitous comforting. My mate would have to at least engage me in order to receive that kind of attention. I'd just be going about my business like I couldn't be bothered to notice her gloom.

 

 

This is what I have decided to do. Thanks again.

[Woggle]

Why are you doing anything at all for her birthday? Help the kids buy a presnet but don't do a damn thing for her. She resents you greatly already so why not give her some real reasons to hate you? She is not your wife anymore emotionally so stop treating her as if she were.

[bestadvisor]

Her reaction was 'Oh, my God'. Then after a pause, 'Can we talk in the other room'? I said cheerfully we are freaking roommates. Then she says 'Are we roomates?' Go figure it.

 

You know her better than we do. What do you think she wanted to talk or say to you, especially after having a possitive reaction to your new look?

 

 

So this morning we laughed big time about my necklace.

 

That's what I have been telling you, all hope have not been lost.

[Missy27]

RB ~ I've been trying to keep up to date on your thread and am just mulling a few things over before I post again ~ but just wanted to Jump in quickly and say that EVERYTHING that LJ has been posting to you is spot on ~ she has mammoth amount of experience under her belt and you can bet your bottom dollar that whatever you're going through LJ has already been there done that and got the t-shirt _ she's studied these things and KNOWS what she's talking about ~ Take her advice ~ you can make adaptions to it ~ of course ~ we're all individual so what works in entirety for one ~ may not for another ~ but the basic principles that LJ is providing you with are invaluable.

 

I am also not into going tit for tat but Personally I dont agree with alot of what Best Adviser has "advised" you to do ~ some of (her?) concepts are completely ludicrous to your situation and in my opinion only serve to encourage your wife to distance herself from you further ~~ she's been quite forthcoming in congratulating herself whenever you have recognised any of her points and to be honest ~ that's not what LS is about ~~ It's about helping and advising and although I do not doubt that her intentions are honourable ~ It is NOT BA's place to tell you not to take the advice of others on here whom are trying to actually provide you with stellar, sound and constructive advice ~

[bestadvisor]

I am also not into going tit for tat but Personally I dont agree with alot of what Best Adviser has "advised" you to do ~ some of (her?) concepts are completely ludicrous to your situation and in my opinion only serve to encourage your wife to distance herself from you further

 

Redblack, don't pay attention to her; she has a personal issue with me. It could have been something to do with my name. Redblack, you're a smart guy, you know what advice is ludicrous and what's not.

 

I said it how it is and alot of times, people don't like my plain honesty without sugar coating. I think the post below is bad advice:

 

Why are you doing anything at all for her birthday? Help the kids buy a presnet but don't do a damn thing for her. She resents you greatly already so why not give her some real reasons to hate you? She is not your wife anymore emotionally so stop treating her as if she were.

 

I just say it how it is and that's why certain people don't like me or my comments. When asked which specific advice of mine is bad, they can't mention any. Redblack, you're not here to deal with these posters attacking each other, you're here to get good advice. Just ignore those irrelevant comments to your situation, filter the garbage advice and follow the good ones.

[redblack66]

Why are you doing anything at all for her birthday? Help the kids buy a presnet but don't do a damn thing for her. She resents you greatly already so why not give her some real reasons to hate you? She is not your wife anymore emotionally so stop treating her as if she were.

 

Well, it is a razor-edge dance. I can easily ignore her, but at the same time she should know that I am the fun, thoughtful and caring guy that was lost in the last years.

She already has enough to hate me; it is a different question if they are rational.

[redblack66]

You know her better than we do. What do you think she wanted to talk or say to you, especially after having a possitive reaction to your new look?

 

I guess she wanted to ask me how I got this neck chain, and perhaps what I did on the weekend.

 

 

That's what I have been telling you, all hope have not been lost.

 

Well, I hope we are not lost yet. The key thing now is that she does not work on the separation agreement. I guess if she sees me as a person that one would like to be with, she may start having second thoughts.

[Missy27]

I just say it how it is and that's why certain people don't like me or my comments. When asked which specific advice of mine is bad, they can't mention any. Redblack, you're not here to deal with these posters attacking each other, you're here to get good advice. Just ignore those irrelevant comments to your situation, filter the garbage advice and follow the good ones

 

No personal problem with you BA ~ Dont even know you treacle ~ just think SOME of your advice is unsound / irrational and illogical ~ RB will take advice as and when he feels it is appropriate to his situation ~ as will he with LJ's / Gunny's etc advice ~ I am merely pointing out that you are trying to encourage RB to dis-regard LJ's advice when her's is ALWAYS sound / rational AND LOGICAL advice ~ so in this respect you are NOT helping RB ~ and therefore you are not complying to the rules of the forum ~ I am not going to get into an argument with you over this ~ I think you just need to appreciate other people's advice is just as if not more invaluable than your own and thus work within the boundaries of the forum to help people rather than a mission to make yourself feel better through other peoples pain ~ I shall not be responding to you again BA ~ you have my thoughts and I am here to help people ~

[redblack66]

p.s. I think if it were me... I'd take up a "whistling while I work" attitude.

Your wife hasn't earned your attention in a positive way... so I wouldn't be offering a whole lot in the way of solicitous comforting. My mate would have to at least engage me in order to receive that kind of attention. I'd just be going about my business like I couldn't be bothered to notice her gloom.

 

I was thinking this morning the following. I am trying to win her back. Perhaps I should think that she should win me back???

Then "whistling while I work" may give her plenty of room to think about it. She needs a "project", and if I am readily available, I am of no interest.

Just thoughts...

[Missy27]

RB ~ I think you DO need to make a decision as to where you're going to go with this ~ filing for divorce doesn't necessarily mean you have to actually go through with it ~ you can always call your w's bluff a little bit ~ as it is ~ you're not sure where she stands at the moment as far as actually divorcing you is concerned ~ and maybe you taking the decision to serve her with the papers ~ might encourage her to actually have to stop and think about what it is she really wants ~ either way ~ it's going to draw some sort of definitive conclusion to the situation ~