luigi Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Hello all. In personal opinion, the internet is not the place I wanted to go for advice on this. But my situation has sort of forced this venue as a means to ask others their opinion. I say this because the people who I would normally go to for advice are the very people who have hurt me. Sorry if this is long winded... My wife and I are relatively young at 27 and 26. We have been married for two years, and were together before that for 5, though 2.5 of those were long distance. Up until recently, my perception of the time we have had together is that it has been really, really positive and great. We have never had any major issues, and live a very peaceful existence. When we met, I was in undergrad, and she was studying abroad. We decided to try it out, and though it was difficult, we made it work a few years later. Throughout this whole time, I have had a friend who is like a brother to me. We met in university, and decided to go to the same grad school. The three of us were pretty close. Recently, my wife and I moved to a different country from my friend. But we have taken trips to see him, and vice versa. I noticed recently that she is chatting with him online more than I am. A month or so ago we all returned home (where we all met) for a few weeks of vacation. We went camping with friends. One night, right before we went to bed, we were all saying goodnight, and I notice that they give each other a kiss on the mouth...small, but on the mouth. I immediately ask her about it when she came into the tent and she begins crying saying that she did not know why she kissed him in the mouth just then. I decide to bring it up after the camping trip. We eventually return to where we are living abroad. She gets an offer to work for two weeks in the same city where our friend lives in, as well as many other mutual friends. We agree that is a good idea for her to keep contacts with her former employee, so she goes. I had started a new job, so I was lonely but busy. When she returns I immediately feel something is wrong. While she is trying to put on a face like she is happy to be home, her kiss is different. We are usually fairly active sexually, but the first two days back and she is cold and unresponsive. She is not distant, but I can tell she is hiding something. So the third night back (we have had sex this day), I ask her, what went on between you and our friend. She looks at me in the eye and says that nothing happened. I bring up other past things, and how I have told her that I think the behavior is inappropriate. She denies anything, directly into my eyes. I told her that it was her chance to be open and honest about everything. She said nothing. Still I know something happened. Next morning before I go to work, I ask her again... What happened...after some moments of not being able to look at me in the face, she told me they kissed. I asked her if she stayed at his house, she said yes, I asked her in his bed, she said no! He has a blowup mattress! I was not satisfied, She had lied to me, and I knew it was not the end. At work, I am trying to concentrate on what I need to do, but it is impossible. I chat with her online and she then reveals to me that yes, she did stay in his bed, but they only kissed and slept with their clothes on. I decide not to come home for lunch. At night, I decide I need to come home...I know she must be histerical. I go directly to my office, and do not look at her. After a while she comes in and says that I am right not to believe her, because she did sleep with him. I dunno why I asked, but I asked if they used protection, she said yes, and a second later say, ok, no, we did not. All this time, she is crying. She has been crying for days. I told her that I cannot trust her, after she has lied to me on so many levels, so many times. I cannot be with someone I cannot trust. I took my ring off and told her I need some time to think about what I will do. For now, I am sleeping on the couch, working in my office. She is in our bedroom. She says how sorry she is, how she could do anything to take my hurt away, and while I believe her, I feel like a fool. Why should I believe anything she says? I think it is impossible for me to trust again. Sometimes following a principle does not fit every situation, but here, I feel I must follow something I have thought about for a while and that is that if anyone cheats on me, I cannot be with that person. I do not know what to do. I don't know why I feel bad for her. She is crying, and she is in our bedroom all day, and I feel bad for HER? She ****ed my best friend, and vice versa. I want to tell her that our relationship/marriage is absolutely over. Those are such strong words, and while I mean them, can I really go through with it? I really loved her and I thought she loved me too. While she says she does, I don't know what to believe. I feel like a gullible @%$*.
Chrome Barracuda Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Did you confront him???! Your so called best friend need a wake up call homie.
4whatItsWorth Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 I'm sorry to be blunt, but I think you should stand your grounds and divorce her. She probably already planned on something happen when she decided to go to where he was for two weeks - if she truly didnt wanna cheat she'd not put herself in the position where she could. Of course she is upset - she probably thought she wouldn't get caught. She lied to you when you told her to come clean...and it's not like she "oops tripped and fell" on his penis...and not to use protection shows she had no worries or care about your sexual health! Go get tested for STDs! ...if you *do* feel like you can forgive her. Believe her that it won't happen again...then you need to ask her to cut all contact with the other man. And she needs to give you 100% access to all her phone and emails...she needs to earn your trust back. However, coming from own experience...I know how damaging it can be for a man to find out his girl was with someone else. And I don't think you deserve this pain. Best of luck, whichever choice you make.
Mr. Lucky Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Well, there isn't anything that one of us is going to type in here that is going to solve your problems. You are in Step 1 of a long journey that is eventually going to come down to a simple decision - to forgive or not. I would suggest a two pronged approach - separation and counseling, in the hopes that it would give you the time and structure to work through the many issues involved. Many here feel your pain... Mr. Lucky
Author luigi Posted October 20, 2007 Author Posted October 20, 2007 I thank you for your replies. And while I know that this venue will not solve my problems, I did need to get it out. I do have other friends, but I feel so ashamed, I know that if they are true friends, well, that doesn't matter, but the friend I thought was truest is the one who is involved. Hence I have very little trust in anything at the moment. Separation, well, we live in a foreign country, while that should not matter, our friends here do not have much space to keep one of us, and our money situation is not brilliant. We have enough to live on and pay rent, have a bit of fun, but any extended separation would mean a return to the states for one of us. Counseling. She has made an appointment for next week on her mother's advice. She wants me to come, but I am hesitant. We are going to discuss things, and I guess to have a mediator there will force us to discuss it in a way that perhaps moves the situation along. I guess it can't hurt anymore to try this. Thanks
Ladyjane14 Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Don't let her back you into a corner. By all means... it's okay to go to the counseling session. I'd even say it's a good idea. But, you need about three weeks or so to absorb this information. Your best bet is to take a noncommittal stance and not allow anyone to pressure you. It takes time to choose a course of action, and you can't do that hurt and shocked as you are. Be a little selfish in this regard.
norajane Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Has she ended this affair? Or is she still chatting with him online and sharing all this with him now? Because ending the affair has to be the first thing she does, or there's no way you and she can ever repair anything. Her feelings for this guy haven't gone away, but they can if she has no contact with him. Definitely go to counseling. It will give you a forum to express your feelings, and to ask ALL the questions running through your head. You both need to figure out and understand why she chose to cheat on you with this guy, and are there underlying issues in the marriage that also need to be resolved and whether you want to try to resolve them. And what are her issues that she would allow herself to hurt you in order to satisfy her desire to be with another man? You're going to go through a roller-coaster of emotions, and you'll change your mind 20 times a day about what you want to do. Counseling might help you get clarity on what you eventually want to do.
Author luigi Posted October 20, 2007 Author Posted October 20, 2007 As far as I know, they have not spoken. This is literally happening as we speak, and yes, you are right, my head goes from absolute rage, to intense sadness, to nothing, absolute nothing. I am trying to spend the day distracted, doing some work, but all around me is this situation. Last night, when it all came out, she threatened to jump off of our balcony if I left her. She has never in our 7 years together showed any signs of being suicidal. This just is not her, so I did not pay any attention. To which she screamed that I did not even care if she would jump. She was hysterical with crying and screaming. I knew she would not do it, but all she wanted was for me to touch her, to go and grab her. She wanted the attention I cannot possibly bring myself to give her right now. In the end I had to go grab her. I caved. I tore her away from the balcony, and while I have never been abusive, I had to use some force to pry her off. On the other side of things, the person I called my best friend sent me an email. Short. Basically saying that neither of them had any control. If he had the ability to go back, he would erase it. But he knows he cannot. The typical we know is said because basically there is nothing to say. How do I go about making sure they do not communicate? Do I force an email check or something...god does it have to come to this!
Dazed1 Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Hi Luigi; Life comes at you fast don't it? It's important right now that you try to be objective about your thoughts and reactions. Do not make decisions that will change your life at this time... you're simply not right in the head today, and won't be for about a week or so. Just take it easy, feel whatever you feel and let it be. This is a potentially earth-shattering event that you are living, and you need to put on the seatbelt because it's a loooooong scary ride regardless of whether you decide to forgive or not. I can't offer much opinion as i don't know you or your wife... I have been in your shoes and i understand the confusion you are feeling. Just dig in the heels and hang on. There will soon be a time when you can think objectively and then you can structure things the way you need them to be. FWIW; I support the counseling idea; just know that sometimes the mediated and "safe" discussions can be very enlightening, and you may hear more than you want to. So hey man; I'm pulling for you. -Dazed
4whatItsWorth Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Last night, when it all came out, she threatened to jump off of our balcony if I left her. She has never in our 7 years together showed any signs of being suicidal. That says a lot. She cheats on you, and her solution to the problem is to threaten to jump off the balcony...to me, still sounds with the crying and threats she is trying to make you feel sorry for her...yet you're the one who is in the most pain because of the choice she made. Don't stay with her because she threatens to kill herself - that only means she needs councelling, nothing else. To threaten with suicide is weak. I am so sorry for you to be in this situation.
MrsHellnoFire Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 As far as I know, they have not spoken. This is literally happening as we speak, and yes, you are right, my head goes from absolute rage, to intense sadness, to nothing, absolute nothing. I am trying to spend the day distracted, doing some work, but all around me is this situation. Last night, when it all came out, she threatened to jump off of our balcony if I left her. She has never in our 7 years together showed any signs of being suicidal. This just is not her, so I did not pay any attention. To which she screamed that I did not even care if she would jump. She was hysterical with crying and screaming. I knew she would not do it, but all she wanted was for me to touch her, to go and grab her. She wanted the attention I cannot possibly bring myself to give her right now. In the end I had to go grab her. I caved. I tore her away from the balcony, and while I have never been abusive, I had to use some force to pry her off. On the other side of things, the person I called my best friend sent me an email. Short. Basically saying that neither of them had any control. If he had the ability to go back, he would erase it. But he knows he cannot. The typical we know is said because basically there is nothing to say. How do I go about making sure they do not communicate? Do I force an email check or something...god does it have to come to this! Yeah but she also never did anything to risk you and her entire life as she knows it before. When the chips are down, you see someone for who they truly are. She needs help for her emotional problems because it sounds messed up. Even if she doesn't mean to pull a jackknife, doesn't mean that she couldn't accidentally do so.
bish Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Luigi, If you do not have kids with this "woman", then divorce her and dump your so-called "friend". Neither of them deserve you. You'll never look at her the same again. Seriously man, file for divorce. The other choice is obviously to stay with her. If you do...then be prepared to live out a life being exiled of thinking about what she did to you and did WITH him. You never will trust her again, I can guarantee it. The best you could ever hope for, in my opinion, is to get to a point where you don't think about her spreading her legs for another guy. Its my opinion that the best anyone can hope for is to get back to some sort of normalcy, but 100% trust will NEVER come back. I feel for you man...good luck in whatever decision you make. But if you decide to stay with her...you need to set some ground rules since she obviously can't handle keeping from betraying someone that trusted her completely.
abeliever Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Hello and welcome. Each time we get a new person in here I want to scream RUN FAST AND DON'T LOOK BACK because you know first hand just what they are getting ready to go thru. If you can spare anyone the pain you know is so devastating - you would shield them from it. I'm trying to find the words. Its the same thing just a little different. People use the "suicide" attempt thing because it works. And for some reason my gender of women use it alot. ( I wouldn't) The reality of it is she knows you usually better than you. So be smart, the others are right you really don't even know the emotions that have not started. They come when she says she is going to the store. (is she going to call him from the payphone?) When she said she is going out with friends or to the movies (is she meeting him?) There are countless arrands and outings that you will always be wondering if she is doing things and that is that the excuse. When you at work is she doing something then? How about the internet and when and where can she use a computer. You cannot follow her around and watch her. Check her cell phone bill each month. I could go on and on. The others know what I am talking about. You go through all the possibilities and sometimes it can really you drive crazy. But that is the reality of it. Your always going to wonder. At least for a while. Then the final question comes into play. Am I really going to do this? Is this my problem? Why am I the one who is feeling guilty? I could go on and on. Ask the others they know where I am going. You have time, in counseling ask the hard questons. Make HER do the WORK. This is your time to heal and watch out for you. Believe me she is watching out for her its human nature. Take care of you first. When those hard moments come and you just want to break something. Come on here let it out. We have all been there before. I with all the others wish you best and good luck. Just knowing you have an outlet really helps. No judgement here if you stay or not its not about her its about you having a place to vent and have a place to come and be safe with your thoughts. We are here for you. abeliever
Author luigi Posted October 21, 2007 Author Posted October 21, 2007 I want to thank everyone for their responses. I don't know, not much else to say. We spoke tonight. She told me more. Maybe not more severe actions, but she told me the time line. I moved to where I am living now in February. I came out here first to find a place to live, set us up. She came in April after everything had been sorted. She told me that is when they first shared their feelings for each other, when they first kissed. In the summer we flew to the states and back. On frequent fliers, different airlines. I set up our tickets, but all could find was a ticket for her returning the day before. She had a long layover in our former city, and she ended up staying with him, which we actually planned, him being our friend. They stayed in the same bed that night, and she says nothing happened then...whatever, that does not matter now. I asked her if she told him that she loved him/vice versa, she said yes. Then she goes on to say that she can forget her love for him, but not for me. At this point I am trying to think that everything that she says is empty and nothing. She says he is not the man she wants to be with. I told her it was no longer her choice. I am finding it very difficult to think I have to wait. That I have to take time. I know this is correct. With time hopefully will come clarity to make the decision that needs to be made. She says she will pay for the counseling. I will go next week. Also, it is quite strange for us to be here in the same apartment. But at the same time, I can't stand the thought of her being gone. How do I deal with that? She asks me if I want her to go. She says she will stay with friends or a hotel for a few days. This is a good idea, I feel. My mother called today. She usually knows exactly what is running through my mind. But somehow I masked it, which I have never done. Why am I trying to protect her? My mother, if she knew, would make her life a living hell. At the same time, I feel too ashamed to even tell my family. Even my brother. I guess this all adds up to the fact that right now is no time to make a decision, and since it will alter the path of my future, I need to conserve the present. I suppose I will tell people when I make the decision final. again, thanks for your words.
norajane Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 YOU have nothing to be ashamed of. SHE is the one who should be ashamed.
bestadvisor Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 luigi, when things like this happened, especially so early in the marriage, we all know how it will end. Even if you decided to work on the marriage, will you ever look at her the same way again? Will you ever trust her again? Are you, or even her, ever be sure that it will not happened again in 6 months, 2 years, 5 years...down the road?
BlueEyedSarah Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Last night, when it all came out, she threatened to jump off of our balcony if I left her. She has never in our 7 years together showed any signs of being suicidal. This just is not her, so I did not pay any attention. To which she screamed that I did not even care if she would jump. She was hysterical with crying and screaming. I knew she would not do it, but all she wanted was for me to touch her, to go and grab her. She wanted the attention I cannot possibly bring myself to give her right now. In the end I had to go grab her. I caved. I tore her away from the balcony, and while I have never been abusive, I had to use some force to pry her off. ??? This makes me feel sick I think she needs serious help to threaten you with suicide. Thats sick minded and plain crazy?!
gman0hsev Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 you should tell your family, i mean while this site is great i find that sometimes its better to have an actual person to vent too and who will take your side. Some of the people here will have their own motives for saying what they say(be it good or bad) You have a serious problem on your hands and your family could help greatly. I mean after all we have never met your wife before while your family has so I'm sure they could help you in ways that we couldn't. also having someone who is neutral would also be a good thing.
whichwayisup Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Don't tell your family right now, this is between you and your wife. Having your mom, or brother involved isn't a good idea -Atleast for now. This is a private matter between you and your wife, noone else should get involved or influence you one way or another. It's your marriage, you handle it the way you feel is best. Though, with that being said, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Nothing. This is your wife and you so-called bestfriend's doing. It didn't "just" happen, it wasn't out of their control. A choice had to be made and they both chose to betray you in the worst way. Now, they both have to suffer the conquences of their actions. I am sorry for your pain. Your wife does need counselling, on her own. Marriage counselling will help in the long run if you two choose to stay together, but right now SHE is the one who needs to figure out why she allowed an affair to happen, with your bestfriend. That's complete double betrayal - Something NOONE should have to deal with! It's bad enough she cheated on you, but even worse seeing as he was your BF. Take care of yourself too. Don't let yourself get rundown.
Cobra_X30 Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Then she goes on to say that she can forget her love for him, but not for me. At this point I am trying to think that everything that she says is empty and nothing. She says he is not the man she wants to be with. I told her it was no longer her choice. I am finding it very difficult to think I have to wait. That I have to take time. I know this is correct. With time hopefully will come clarity to make the decision that needs to be made. She says she will pay for the counseling. I will go next week. Umm... She is kind of late to "forget her love for him". Id say she more than likely forgot her love for you. It sounds like your a little hesitant to get back involved with a woman who has such a bad memory. Luigi, Are you well versed in the divorce laws of the country where you have citizenship? You feel like protecting her? Why? Did she protect you? Did she even think of you?
4whatItsWorth Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 But at the same time, I can't stand the thought of her being gone. How do I deal with that? Thing is, Luigi...the woman you fell in love with is already gone. She left the building the moment she decided to kiss, fall in love with, sleep with and confess her love to your best friend. I know it is difficult to let someone know, TRUST me how well I know this...but a person who has hurt you so much..you truly do not deserve this. You deserve a woman who won't cheat on you, to doubt her feelings for you even the slightest. I still don't think you should give her a second chance. Like the others said, this is no "mistake". It was planned and developed for months of time! She apparantly forgot her love for you then...so no wonder she can easily forget his now. Time apart will probably help you think clearer. You need to decide whether or not you can forgive and trust her. You need her to promise to go to a counceller and work out her issues...but in the end there is no guarantee she won't do it again... I am being negative in this, but all I see is manipulation for personal gain...
tommyr Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I think everyone would understand if you decide to just leave (or better still, throw her azz out). But maybe you would consider taking a couple weeks to process the situation, and get a reading on HER reactions. While you are busy "thinking"... what is SHE doing to demonstrate her commitment to the marriage and to rebuilding her trustworthiness? The woe is me / suicidal act is not something I would really stick around for. Has she manned up (can I say that about a girl?) yet and accepted the consequences of her actions? I guess my willingness to forgive would largely depend on the approach and credibility of my partner.
Darth Vader Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I'd throw her out, if I were you! I'd file for Divorce, make sure my stuff was in order with my lawyer, and come back to the US. I say that, because I'm sure you want to get away from her! I just hope that you have better rights in a Divorce over there than you would here in the US!
Bryanp Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I am so sorry for you. The timeline indicates that she was very good in lying and cheating on you. Her comment that she slept in his bed overnight and nothing happened during the layover is probably total bull****. She keeps changing the story. It is interesting how easy it was for her to cheat and lie to you all this time. This is such a double betrayal to cheat on you and with your best friend. She know exactly how this would crush you. Do not waste your time and your life with someone like this. She has shown you her true colors. Don't you think you deserve to be with someone who truly loves and respects you? Please don't settle for someone like this.
Chrome Barracuda Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 If I was you, i'd get the marriage annulled. She slept with him bottom line. She might have changed since then but past indicator is what future behavior's gonna be. If she'll be so weak as to cheat with your so called best friend then, Then what's gonna happen later on down the line? If you got no kids I suggest a trial seperation until she can figure out the whole story be completely honest and work towards she's not gonna be weak and do dumb **** over again. And if she can't then divorce!!! All that suicide stuff that was a weak ploy to get your attention. Or it might have been a cry for help because she may have deeper issues than you realize.
Recommended Posts